I have Illustrator CS5 open in front of me just to check. There aren't folders. There are layers (or it wouldn't be a layers palette at all). No folders.
I think he is referring to what is called sublayers
Ok let me revise that. Sorry you have so many problems. You must be very unlucky or have done something to screw up your computer because I have the latest OS X updates and the CS updates and experience no issues, and no crashes. I do this professionally all day long and also have 8 core w 8 gigs. I use PS, AI, IN, DW, FL and usually have them running all at the same time along with half a dozen other apps like textmate, fetch, safari, grab, skype, itunes and acrobat. No problem whatsoever. I have been using all of those application since the 1.0 versions (yes including Illustrator 1.0a). Have not had a crash for years and I leave my machine on 24 hours a day and often log in with back to my mac remotely from home.
Thanks for the clarification, but you may really be comparing different things:
- The absolutely only crash situation I mentioned in my rant was a crash that repeatedly happens when DW loses the connection to a FTP server during certain transactions (e.g. while refreshing the database cache on the test/preview server or while in "Live" view). This bug is there since 2005 and Adobe has confirmed it (more than 20 times to me alone). And: this bug was "added" by Adobe, as the last Macromedia version from 2004 does not have it. The fact that you are not seeing it, does not necessarily prove anything, as you may a) not work in remote locations where internet connections drop frequently (or work with a test server on the local network anyhow) and/or b) not work with live remote databases at all.
- Similarly, all the other issue mentioned by me have been reported over and over, and we have seen them on own machines, on client machines, we could even reproduce them right in an Apple store, on a store computer, in front of an Adobe employee (or contractor, I do not know for sure) who was giving a product demo (CS4 at that time) there... these issues do exist and they have nothing at all to do with our machines or our setup.
They are real bugs and Adobe is doing nothing to solve them. They frequently release paid updates, while the "old" version still has hundreds of known issues. If you have no problems, I am happy for you, but that does not mean that other people, who might use other functions or setups, do not have any. And Adobe's forums are full of them.
Here's my survey... How about making the product less bloated?
Couldn't agree more.
It takes for ever to start up on my Macs.
It is extremely over rated, very poor integration b/n the various components (lots of replication of work is needed). Very poor HELP, and just not a good UI.
You can tell it was written for the M$ PC crowd, they love it.
I refuse to use software from companies that don't respect the Apple users. Skype is a good example, stuck on a very old version while M$ worshippers have the latest.
Simple solution, I remove Skype. I use Facetime exclusively, blows it out of the water, still only Beta, can't wait for the Alpha.
I suggest people, do the same, vote with your fingers, walk away from these companies, they will soon realise their mistakes, and besides you may surprise yourselves that there are better products out there, and who respect Apple Users.
How about a revised installation folder structure in line with Apple's guidelines
Don't you know Adobe absolutely refuses to make their programs Mac-like? They insist that their programs are the same on the PC and Mac. I hate that!
Yeah, I did hear that. But I never heard a single valid argument, why this is a good thing. I do not know a single creative professional who uses the same CS program on two platforms.
Software should follow the rules (and conventions and look and feel... etc ad inf) of the Operating System. Everything else is counterproductive. I mean, heck, even MS "gets" it, and does not try to bring the Windows look and feel to Office for Mac (they do not quite succeed 100% in meeting OS X standards, but at least you can see they try, and I can count on e.g. keyboard shortcuts working as they should, Adobe can't even do that). After working a few hours in a great program (like Aperture or Final Cut Pro), having to work in an Adobe app is always a royal PITA.
But then, to be fair, the Windows versions of iTunes and Safari are not quite great examples for ported applications either
Well, true, but in the meantime I figured out, that this may well be on purpose:
- There are hordes of third party authors writing instruction books for Adobe software
- Their well-being depends on Adobe selling a lot and documenting it poorly
- It is rather easy money, as 90% and more of each next edition are just copy and paste (except for Flash there have not really been a lot of noteworthy updates in years, things like HDR or multi-page support in AI may cause 20-30 additional pages each max.)
- As these sycophants get early access to new features, they have lengthy and detailed "reviews" available as soon as a new suite hits the stores
- Computer magazines are in a rush to publish "reviews" and turn to these authors
- They can publish their self-serving drivel and get free advertising on top of it
A perfect "ecosystem". And, unfortunately, even normally respectable publications like Macworld do fall for it. Watch for it when CS6 arrives. In almost every single publication you will find "reviews" by people making a living by writing handbooks for Adobe software, and not by regular staff members.
After working a few hours in a great program (like Aperture or Final Cut Pro), having to work in an Adobe app is always a royal PITA.
Now I know you are just nuts. If you think FCP interface is anything like the Mac standard environment or at all intuitive then I just don't know where to start. FCP is Awful! with a capital 'A'.
I do use it all the time, and I know where they are coming from since I used to be a an Avid user, but Mac-like, never in a million years.
It is extremely over rated, very poor integration b/n the various components (lots of replication of work is needed). Very poor HELP, and just not a good UI.
You can tell it was written for the M$ PC crowd, they love it.
I refuse to use software from companies that don't respect the Apple users. Skype is a good example, stuck on a very old version while M$ worshippers have the latest.
Simple solution, I remove Skype. I use Facetime exclusively, blows it out of the water, still only Beta, can't wait for the Alpha.
I suggest people, do the same, vote with your fingers, walk away from these companies, they will soon realise their mistakes, and besides you may surprise yourselves that there are better products out there, and who respect Apple Users.
Crazy talk. And by the way in software and generally everything else, Alpha precedes Beta. So I recommend waiting for the next public release because the Alpha is not forthcoming.
I can only imagine what Adobe has in store for us in CS6. We upgraded from a stable CS4 environment to a very painful CS5 environment. To stabilize CS5 we upgraded machines and maxed out the RAM just to get working again. We're an agency with 74 people, spent thousands on upgrades to CS5 and what did we get? Nothing but pain until we spent even more money to run the software. Shame on Adobe. We're skeptical now of the next upgrade. I'm not so sure we can afford it. Enough with the bloatware already.
Don't you know Adobe absolutely refuses to make their programs Mac-like? They insist that their programs are the same on the PC and Mac. I hate that!
don't really care if the interface looks the same. it's a crap product if there are too many bugs. i wish adobe would focus on the tools in each respective program, perfect them, charge a minimum price for an upgrade (yeah folks, i believe we should actually pay for software. no one is forcing your arm to upgrade.), then focus on new features.
and, what's this crap about all these apps overlapping features even more. still don't know if it's a good or bad thing. guess i'll just have to stay tuned.
Unfortunately they probably won't bother digging up all the UI inconsistencies or making the Creative Suite work like a Mac app (I mean what is this folders with subfolders thing in my /Applications? Or those toolbars that almost look like native but don't work like ones).
I'm pretty sure all UI designers have changed ship because since I don't know, version 5, there have been very few well executed UI upgrades and tons of "oh let's just throw this feature somewhere - that special menu for creating 3D hats seems like a good idea".
What I'd like to see is Apple buying Pixelmator and allocating more manpower for that project so it can catch up with Photoshop's main features. Then make something similar for vector graphics.
Crazy talk. And by the way in software and generally everything else, Alpha precedes Beta. So I recommend waiting for the next public release because the Alpha is not forthcoming.
I used the term Alpha, as in alpha wolf (leader), yes I understand about releases, I am a computer programmer and work in IT after all lol !
I disagree that you disagree, CS is bloated and not fun to use, its okay, better than say Auto CAD, which is the most horrible application I have used, being better than the worse doesn't make it good eh ?
I have Illustrator CS5 open in front of me just to check. There aren't folders. There are layers (or it wouldn't be a layers palette at all). No folders.
Yeah adobe is dumb like that. They said that each layer is a folder of it's own because every little vector work would appear inside of it. But I would love to see folders too, like I'm Flash image library. But hey not if you pay $500 for upgrade!\
That would be a single most expensive move, but I don't think Apple sees profit in this area. They can't even keep up with their own pro apps. what would be nice to see apple create an alternative to Adobe. Yet again Adobe will sue anyone who even comes close to their code, user interface and file extensions.
Yeah adobe is dumb like that. They said that each layer is a folder of it's own because every little vector work would appear inside of it. But I would love to see folders too, like I'm Flash image library. But hey not if you pay $500 for upgrade!\
There are 'folders' if that's what you want to call them. Every time you Group objects the grouping forms a folder in the layer palette that you can flip open or closed like a Finder folder. You can drag elements (from within the palette, not from the artboard) from other layers/folders into or out of the group. I do this all the time. It is a great way to add or remove items from a clipping mask without all kinds of cutting and pasting.
I'm really pleased to hear that Adobe is finally getting around to properly upgrading Illustrator. When CS5 rumors where swirling a couple years ago it was all about Photoshop. I spend 80% of my day in Illustrator and I'm looking forward to a REAL upgrade!
What they seemed to want to do is see about general price increases and a yearly subscription plan. My interpretation is $100 per year per title.
I said no to all of it. I always skip a version. I'm still using CS3 and contemplating CS5.
I also left a lengthy comment on the resurrection or emancipation of Freehand.
Also the need for an ala carte package model, instead of the hard packages.
I have CS3 Design Standard and only use Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro. I've never even launched InDesign.
I would like Photoshop Extended, but have no desire to pay for Flash, Dreamweaver, etc.. I use Freeway Pro for my web site.
What I would like is Photoshop Extended, Illustrator, Acrobat Pro and Lightroom.
Since Adobe sees customers, particularly Macintosh customers, as only there to serve and pay Adobe, I doubt we'll ever see such a logical, customer-centric software package arrangement.
Comments
I have Illustrator CS5 open in front of me just to check. There aren't folders. There are layers (or it wouldn't be a layers palette at all). No folders.
I think he is referring to what is called sublayers
Ok let me revise that. Sorry you have so many problems. You must be very unlucky or have done something to screw up your computer because I have the latest OS X updates and the CS updates and experience no issues, and no crashes. I do this professionally all day long and also have 8 core w 8 gigs. I use PS, AI, IN, DW, FL and usually have them running all at the same time along with half a dozen other apps like textmate, fetch, safari, grab, skype, itunes and acrobat. No problem whatsoever. I have been using all of those application since the 1.0 versions (yes including Illustrator 1.0a). Have not had a crash for years and I leave my machine on 24 hours a day and often log in with back to my mac remotely from home.
Thanks for the clarification, but you may really be comparing different things:
- The absolutely only crash situation I mentioned in my rant was a crash that repeatedly happens when DW loses the connection to a FTP server during certain transactions (e.g. while refreshing the database cache on the test/preview server or while in "Live" view). This bug is there since 2005 and Adobe has confirmed it (more than 20 times to me alone). And: this bug was "added" by Adobe, as the last Macromedia version from 2004 does not have it. The fact that you are not seeing it, does not necessarily prove anything, as you may a) not work in remote locations where internet connections drop frequently (or work with a test server on the local network anyhow) and/or b) not work with live remote databases at all.
- Similarly, all the other issue mentioned by me have been reported over and over, and we have seen them on own machines, on client machines, we could even reproduce them right in an Apple store, on a store computer, in front of an Adobe employee (or contractor, I do not know for sure) who was giving a product demo (CS4 at that time) there... these issues do exist and they have nothing at all to do with our machines or our setup.
They are real bugs and Adobe is doing nothing to solve them. They frequently release paid updates, while the "old" version still has hundreds of known issues. If you have no problems, I am happy for you, but that does not mean that other people, who might use other functions or setups, do not have any. And Adobe's forums are full of them.
Here's my survey... How about making the product less bloated?
Couldn't agree more.
It takes for ever to start up on my Macs.
It is extremely over rated, very poor integration b/n the various components (lots of replication of work is needed). Very poor HELP, and just not a good UI.
You can tell it was written for the M$ PC crowd, they love it.
I refuse to use software from companies that don't respect the Apple users. Skype is a good example, stuck on a very old version while M$ worshippers have the latest.
Simple solution, I remove Skype. I use Facetime exclusively, blows it out of the water, still only Beta, can't wait for the Alpha.
I suggest people, do the same, vote with your fingers, walk away from these companies, they will soon realise their mistakes, and besides you may surprise yourselves that there are better products out there, and who respect Apple Users.
How about a revised installation folder structure in line with Apple's guidelines
Don't you know Adobe absolutely refuses to make their programs Mac-like? They insist that their programs are the same on the PC and Mac. I hate that!
Yeah, I did hear that. But I never heard a single valid argument, why this is a good thing. I do not know a single creative professional who uses the same CS program on two platforms.
Software should follow the rules (and conventions and look and feel... etc ad inf) of the Operating System. Everything else is counterproductive. I mean, heck, even MS "gets" it, and does not try to bring the Windows look and feel to Office for Mac (they do not quite succeed 100% in meeting OS X standards, but at least you can see they try, and I can count on e.g. keyboard shortcuts working as they should, Adobe can't even do that). After working a few hours in a great program (like Aperture or Final Cut Pro), having to work in an Adobe app is always a royal PITA.
But then, to be fair, the Windows versions of iTunes and Safari are not quite great examples for ported applications either
Very poor HELP
Well, true, but in the meantime I figured out, that this may well be on purpose:
- There are hordes of third party authors writing instruction books for Adobe software
- Their well-being depends on Adobe selling a lot and documenting it poorly
- It is rather easy money, as 90% and more of each next edition are just copy and paste (except for Flash there have not really been a lot of noteworthy updates in years, things like HDR or multi-page support in AI may cause 20-30 additional pages each max.)
- As these sycophants get early access to new features, they have lengthy and detailed "reviews" available as soon as a new suite hits the stores
- Computer magazines are in a rush to publish "reviews" and turn to these authors
- They can publish their self-serving drivel and get free advertising on top of it
A perfect "ecosystem". And, unfortunately, even normally respectable publications like Macworld do fall for it. Watch for it when CS6 arrives. In almost every single publication you will find "reviews" by people making a living by writing handbooks for Adobe software, and not by regular staff members.
After working a few hours in a great program (like Aperture or Final Cut Pro), having to work in an Adobe app is always a royal PITA.
Now I know you are just nuts. If you think FCP interface is anything like the Mac standard environment or at all intuitive then I just don't know where to start. FCP is Awful! with a capital 'A'.
I do use it all the time, and I know where they are coming from since I used to be a an Avid user, but Mac-like, never in a million years.
Couldn't agree more.
It takes for ever to start up on my Macs.
It is extremely over rated, very poor integration b/n the various components (lots of replication of work is needed). Very poor HELP, and just not a good UI.
You can tell it was written for the M$ PC crowd, they love it.
I refuse to use software from companies that don't respect the Apple users. Skype is a good example, stuck on a very old version while M$ worshippers have the latest.
Simple solution, I remove Skype. I use Facetime exclusively, blows it out of the water, still only Beta, can't wait for the Alpha.
I suggest people, do the same, vote with your fingers, walk away from these companies, they will soon realise their mistakes, and besides you may surprise yourselves that there are better products out there, and who respect Apple Users.
Crazy talk. And by the way in software and generally everything else, Alpha precedes Beta. So I recommend waiting for the next public release because the Alpha is not forthcoming.
Forgot one feature:
Get people to pay for a so-so upgrade AGAIN!
Yeah, this is why I seem to always skip a version or two.
Don't you know Adobe absolutely refuses to make their programs Mac-like? They insist that their programs are the same on the PC and Mac. I hate that!
don't really care if the interface looks the same. it's a crap product if there are too many bugs. i wish adobe would focus on the tools in each respective program, perfect them, charge a minimum price for an upgrade (yeah folks, i believe we should actually pay for software. no one is forcing your arm to upgrade.), then focus on new features.
and, what's this crap about all these apps overlapping features even more. still don't know if it's a good or bad thing. guess i'll just have to stay tuned.
I'm pretty sure all UI designers have changed ship because since I don't know, version 5, there have been very few well executed UI upgrades and tons of "oh let's just throw this feature somewhere - that special menu for creating 3D hats seems like a good idea".
What I'd like to see is Apple buying Pixelmator and allocating more manpower for that project so it can catch up with Photoshop's main features. Then make something similar for vector graphics.
Crazy talk. And by the way in software and generally everything else, Alpha precedes Beta. So I recommend waiting for the next public release because the Alpha is not forthcoming.
I used the term Alpha, as in alpha wolf (leader), yes I understand about releases, I am a computer programmer and work in IT after all lol !
I disagree that you disagree, CS is bloated and not fun to use, its okay, better than say Auto CAD, which is the most horrible application I have used, being better than the worse doesn't make it good eh ?
Will it once again break file compatibility with older CS versions?
As they always do.
I have Illustrator CS5 open in front of me just to check. There aren't folders. There are layers (or it wouldn't be a layers palette at all). No folders.
Yeah adobe is dumb like that. They said that each layer is a folder of it's own because every little vector work would appear inside of it. But I would love to see folders too, like I'm Flash image library. But hey not if you pay $500 for upgrade!
God I'd love to see Apple buy Adobe.
That would be a single most expensive move, but I don't think Apple sees profit in this area. They can't even keep up with their own pro apps.
What we need is someone to create a competing suite that would spur real competition on the Mac.
Quark really needs to buy Pixelmator and Lineform and bundle them for free with every Xpress purchase.
Yeah adobe is dumb like that. They said that each layer is a folder of it's own because every little vector work would appear inside of it. But I would love to see folders too, like I'm Flash image library. But hey not if you pay $500 for upgrade!
There are 'folders' if that's what you want to call them. Every time you Group objects the grouping forms a folder in the layer palette that you can flip open or closed like a Finder folder. You can drag elements (from within the palette, not from the artboard) from other layers/folders into or out of the group. I do this all the time. It is a great way to add or remove items from a clipping mask without all kinds of cutting and pasting.
I'm really pleased to hear that Adobe is finally getting around to properly upgrading Illustrator. When CS5 rumors where swirling a couple years ago it was all about Photoshop. I spend 80% of my day in Illustrator and I'm looking forward to a REAL upgrade!
What they seemed to want to do is see about general price increases and a yearly subscription plan. My interpretation is $100 per year per title.
I said no to all of it. I always skip a version. I'm still using CS3 and contemplating CS5.
I also left a lengthy comment on the resurrection or emancipation of Freehand.
Also the need for an ala carte package model, instead of the hard packages.
I have CS3 Design Standard and only use Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro. I've never even launched InDesign.
I would like Photoshop Extended, but have no desire to pay for Flash, Dreamweaver, etc.. I use Freeway Pro for my web site.
What I would like is Photoshop Extended, Illustrator, Acrobat Pro and Lightroom.
Since Adobe sees customers, particularly Macintosh customers, as only there to serve and pay Adobe, I doubt we'll ever see such a logical, customer-centric software package arrangement.