So you played games on an iPad an thought: "if only this was smaller". No one thinks that. 10" is not actually that big for a screen. Even watching movies 13" is far better. They make a pocket computer and a tablet computer, they have no need for a tweener. Apple always walk to the beat of their own drummer. And that tends to be 'cause they deeply think through what makes sense as a product.
If Apple was run by some of you guys they'd have 1", 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 7", 8", 9", 10", 11", 12" and 13" touch screen products to make sure they catered to every possible person out there. That's the MS way, the AOL way, it's not the Apple way.
I thought 7" was DOA according to SJ, the playbook was DOA because it was 7", the Tab was an epic fail according to many on the board because it is 7". I thought the current size was optimal. However a 7" iPad is now ok?
The current iPad is only perfect because it is Apples newest device and is what they have to sell now. As to what Steve says it is all marketing in much the same way the G5 PPC was marketed. It still amazes me that people fell for the idea that the G5 was fast when Apples own benchmarks showed it wasn't.
IPad is a great device but that doesn't mean great devices are the end to a product line. It should be rather obvious that the Touch product line is just starting and will develop beyond what we have now. Over the next couple of years I would expect to see many new Touch devices from Apple. This will not be a one pony show.
Apple release the iPad - those on here state that it is doomed!
It's just a big iPod, doesn't have a camera - it'll never sell!!!!
Those people have not conceded that they were wrong - look through the archives and see them howl in disgust at apple's doomed project.
So here we are 20 million+ (and counting) unit sales in less than a year and the entire market of tablet computing ignited directly because of Apple and the iPad. If Apple weren't the dominant market leaders the term "iPad killer" wouldn't exist".
Apple got it right because they listened to the consumer, not the "tech experts" on here.
Actually, although his post in general was good, the last line you quoted there was the reason I couldn't entirely get behind it.
Quote:
Apple got it right because they listened to the consumer, not the "tech experts" on here.
Apple invented something, not what people didn't know they already wanted, but something that "made sense" as a product. There was a reason for the iPad existing. In fact, Steve told us those reasons during its announcement. Consumers bought it in droves because the iPad is a great and useful product that serves many purposes in a slim package, not because they were listened to.
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
You may have predicted the iPhone and the iPad correctly but if you are predicting a plain TV, I will predict you being wrong. If you are predicting a computer with TV capabilities (a doubtful maybe) or a TV with capabilities well beyond today's typical TV which only a company with vision like Apple could deliver then I agree.
The iPod touch can gain a little size, no problem. It'd still be pocketable and a lot easier to type on. I bought an iPod touch, only to give it to my son. I simply couldn't get used to that small of a screen. I admit it was awesome at first, like a new love, and I wanted to overlook the painful flaws. But when I got my iPad, I dropped the touch and never looked back.
In my world, a better set of products would be an iPad for home and a larger iPod touch to take with me when I'm out and about. I don't need the full iPad experience, but I do need to be able to interact with it.
I'll probably buy whatever Apple comes out with. I find myself drawn to any new iPod, no matter how small it is. SJ's RDF is a real thing. I'm so drawn in when SJ holds it up as this amazing, tiny thing that I end up buying. But when I actually reach for an iPod out of my collection, it's one with a scroll wheel.
You may have predicted the iPhone and the iPad correctly but if you are predicting a plain TV, I will predict you being wrong.
I predict it will be an Apple branded Television. It will have something revolutionary about it. If this Apple branded TV could successfully turn my living room into a room with 1 remote that would be a revolution, for me. Besides that, we'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic
If you are predicting a computer with TV capabilities...
Think more: "connected TV", as opposed to "a computer with TV capabilities". It won't act or be marketed as a computer. The problem with TV is Apple likes their control, and they don't control TV content as they'd like to. If Apple had more control this would move forward a lot sooner. The TV experience sucks more than the mobile phone experience ever did.
We can wax-wishful all day about this TV, but that's not the point. The point is they will do something in the TV space some day, something more that little black box.
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
We all make mistakes, but it seems you fervently make claims that fall under the "don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech. You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be.?
I?ve read your posts here for a long time and you?ve made some very wild and angry claims that were really out there. If I recall you said that an Apple tablet would have Mac OS X on it despite all the reasonable people saying it needs a unique interface to make it work. I think you said there would be a recall and a change to the GSM iPhone 4. If that was you, that didn?t happen either.
Why not 4.3?? That is a popular size of Android phone with people I know.
I don?t mind a staunch position when it comes to technology, no matter how silly it is, so long as you have a firm reason for your position. To say 4? max without backing up your claim doesn?t make it valid or sound. It does make it seem like you are just pulling numbers out of thin air for no reason than it felt right at the moment.
Why not 4.3”? That is a popular size of Android phone with people I know.
4" isn't a scientific number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron
I don’t mind a staunch position when it comes to technology, no matter how silly it is, so long as you have a firm reason for your position. To say 4” max without backing up your claim doesn’t make it valid or sound. It does make it seem like you are just pulling numbers out of thin air for no reason than it felt right at the moment.
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small. They may even stick with 3.5 or go to 3.7 or something. They won't add a 4.3" display just because: "these other phones have it". If they do go up to 4.3" it will because they figured out a way to do it without making the overall device size any bigger. And/or because they release an iPhone nano and would like to further differentiate iPhone from it. You'd actually be surprised the amount of people in Europe who don't think the iPhone is small. The vast majority of mobile phone owners are not smartphone users.
The iPod touch can gain a little size, no problem. It'd still be pocketable and a lot easier to type on. I bought an iPod touch, only to give it to my son. I simply couldn't get used to that small of a screen. I admit it was awesome at first, like a new love, and I wanted to overlook the painful flaws. But when I got my iPad, I dropped the touch and never looked back.
We?re certainly seeing a shift in how/where/when people want to use computers and be online. A larger iPod Touch would certainly help fill that void.
A 32GB Touch is $399 and a 32GB iPad is $599. I think $499 for a 32GB iPod Touch 7 would make sense. It would be almost 50% the display size of the iPad and about 400% of the IPod Touch.
They would have to make a new user interface and SDK for it which adds complications, but that is minimal with a good SDK and compared to anything on the Android front. We?re only talking 3 different display sizes for iOS, and it?s not like developers have to develop for 3 sizes if they don?t want to. Some apps are simply don?t work at multiple sizes and device types.
Actually, although his post in general was good, the last line you quoted there was the reason I couldn't entirely get behind it.
Apple invented something, not what people didn't know they already wanted, but something that "made sense" as a product. There was a reason for the iPad existing. In fact, Steve told us those reasons during its announcement. Consumers bought it in droves because the iPad is a great and useful product that serves many purposes in a slim package, not because they were listened to.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small. They may even stick with 3.5 or go to 3.7 or something. They won't add a 4.3" display just because: "these other phones have it". If they do go up to 4.3" it will because they figured out a way to do it without making the overall device size any bigger.
It is a scientific unit of measurement. The International System of Units says it?s 25.4mm. Only metric can be ?scientific??
I don?t understand your point at all. You say that Apple like their devices small. That makes no sense when you look at the Mac Pro, 27? iMac, 17? MBP and the 9.7? iPad. They like there devices thin but they have plenty of devices with displays that have become larger.
Did you claim that Apple won?t make a tablet because the display is too large and they like their devices ?small?? Of course you didn?t.
Again, why would they create a new interface and SDK for a 3.7? or up to 4? but anything larger? It really sounds like you are just making things up without thinking them through, which is exactly what you accused others of doing.
If I recall you said that an Apple tablet would have Mac OS X on it despite all the reasonable people saying it needs a unique interface to make it work.
I distinctly remembered calling the OS Mac OS X touch. That is not Mac OS X. I said it would need to be re written for the ground up for touch. Go back and read what I said. That said...
I admitted I was off on that one and took it on the chin. And I like my iPad. And yes, I fell into the camp that went after the iPhone 4 antenna, but I'm over that now. It was overblown. I was wrong.
I don?t understand your point at all. You say that Apple like their devices small. That makes no sense when you look at the Mac Pro, 27? iMac, 17? MBP and the 9.7? iPad. They like there devices thin but they have plenty of devices with displays that have become larger.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
My dear friend, I will return the compliment you once threw upon me and say emphatically that once you cross the threshold of three medium length sentences in one post, your rhetorical acumen opens a door to all too withheld clear-sightedness.
Were it stricly for my own benefit, please do expend yourself more often...
Comments
iOS device for Games?
So you played games on an iPad an thought: "if only this was smaller". No one thinks that. 10" is not actually that big for a screen. Even watching movies 13" is far better. They make a pocket computer and a tablet computer, they have no need for a tweener. Apple always walk to the beat of their own drummer. And that tends to be 'cause they deeply think through what makes sense as a product.
If Apple was run by some of you guys they'd have 1", 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 7", 8", 9", 10", 11", 12" and 13" touch screen products to make sure they catered to every possible person out there. That's the MS way, the AOL way, it's not the Apple way.
I thought 7" was DOA according to SJ, the playbook was DOA because it was 7", the Tab was an epic fail according to many on the board because it is 7". I thought the current size was optimal. However a 7" iPad is now ok?
The current iPad is only perfect because it is Apples newest device and is what they have to sell now. As to what Steve says it is all marketing in much the same way the G5 PPC was marketed. It still amazes me that people fell for the idea that the G5 was fast when Apples own benchmarks showed it wasn't.
IPad is a great device but that doesn't mean great devices are the end to a product line. It should be rather obvious that the Touch product line is just starting and will develop beyond what we have now. Over the next couple of years I would expect to see many new Touch devices from Apple. This will not be a one pony show.
It's quite amazing.
Apple release the iPad - those on here state that it is doomed!
It's just a big iPod, doesn't have a camera - it'll never sell!!!!
Those people have not conceded that they were wrong - look through the archives and see them howl in disgust at apple's doomed project.
So here we are 20 million+ (and counting) unit sales in less than a year and the entire market of tablet computing ignited directly because of Apple and the iPad. If Apple weren't the dominant market leaders the term "iPad killer" wouldn't exist".
Apple got it right because they listened to the consumer, not the "tech experts" on here.
Etc.
Great post.
Great post.
Actually, although his post in general was good, the last line you quoted there was the reason I couldn't entirely get behind it.
Apple got it right because they listened to the consumer, not the "tech experts" on here.
Apple invented something, not what people didn't know they already wanted, but something that "made sense" as a product. There was a reason for the iPad existing. In fact, Steve told us those reasons during its announcement. Consumers bought it in droves because the iPad is a great and useful product that serves many purposes in a slim package, not because they were listened to.
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
You may have predicted the iPhone and the iPad correctly but if you are predicting a plain TV, I will predict you being wrong. If you are predicting a computer with TV capabilities (a doubtful maybe) or a TV with capabilities well beyond today's typical TV which only a company with vision like Apple could deliver then I agree.
In my world, a better set of products would be an iPad for home and a larger iPod touch to take with me when I'm out and about. I don't need the full iPad experience, but I do need to be able to interact with it.
I'll probably buy whatever Apple comes out with. I find myself drawn to any new iPod, no matter how small it is. SJ's RDF is a real thing. I'm so drawn in when SJ holds it up as this amazing, tiny thing that I end up buying. But when I actually reach for an iPod out of my collection, it's one with a scroll wheel.
The current iPad is only perfect because it is Apples newest device and is what they have to sell now.
I believe he means the size, as in a 9.7" display for a tablet device, is perfect.
The iPod touch can gain a little size, no problem. It'd still be pocketable and a lot easier to type on.
4" max.
You may have predicted the iPhone and the iPad correctly but if you are predicting a plain TV, I will predict you being wrong.
I predict it will be an Apple branded Television. It will have something revolutionary about it. If this Apple branded TV could successfully turn my living room into a room with 1 remote that would be a revolution, for me. Besides that, we'll see.
If you are predicting a computer with TV capabilities...
Think more: "connected TV", as opposed to "a computer with TV capabilities". It won't act or be marketed as a computer. The problem with TV is Apple likes their control, and they don't control TV content as they'd like to. If Apple had more control this would move forward a lot sooner. The TV experience sucks more than the mobile phone experience ever did.
We can wax-wishful all day about this TV, but that's not the point. The point is they will do something in the TV space some day, something more that little black box.
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
We all make mistakes, but it seems you fervently make claims that fall under the "don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech. You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be.?
I?ve read your posts here for a long time and you?ve made some very wild and angry claims that were really out there. If I recall you said that an Apple tablet would have Mac OS X on it despite all the reasonable people saying it needs a unique interface to make it work. I think you said there would be a recall and a change to the GSM iPhone 4. If that was you, that didn?t happen either.
4" max.
Why not 4.3?? That is a popular size of Android phone with people I know.
I don?t mind a staunch position when it comes to technology, no matter how silly it is, so long as you have a firm reason for your position. To say 4? max without backing up your claim doesn?t make it valid or sound. It does make it seem like you are just pulling numbers out of thin air for no reason than it felt right at the moment.
Why not 4.3”? That is a popular size of Android phone with people I know.
4" isn't a scientific number.
I don’t mind a staunch position when it comes to technology, no matter how silly it is, so long as you have a firm reason for your position. To say 4” max without backing up your claim doesn’t make it valid or sound. It does make it seem like you are just pulling numbers out of thin air for no reason than it felt right at the moment.
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small. They may even stick with 3.5 or go to 3.7 or something. They won't add a 4.3" display just because: "these other phones have it". If they do go up to 4.3" it will because they figured out a way to do it without making the overall device size any bigger. And/or because they release an iPhone nano and would like to further differentiate iPhone from it. You'd actually be surprised the amount of people in Europe who don't think the iPhone is small. The vast majority of mobile phone owners are not smartphone users.
The iPod touch can gain a little size, no problem. It'd still be pocketable and a lot easier to type on. I bought an iPod touch, only to give it to my son. I simply couldn't get used to that small of a screen. I admit it was awesome at first, like a new love, and I wanted to overlook the painful flaws. But when I got my iPad, I dropped the touch and never looked back.
We?re certainly seeing a shift in how/where/when people want to use computers and be online. A larger iPod Touch would certainly help fill that void.
A 32GB Touch is $399 and a 32GB iPad is $599. I think $499 for a 32GB iPod Touch 7 would make sense. It would be almost 50% the display size of the iPad and about 400% of the IPod Touch.
They would have to make a new user interface and SDK for it which adds complications, but that is minimal with a good SDK and compared to anything on the Android front. We?re only talking 3 different display sizes for iOS, and it?s not like developers have to develop for 3 sizes if they don?t want to. Some apps are simply don?t work at multiple sizes and device types.
Actually, although his post in general was good, the last line you quoted there was the reason I couldn't entirely get behind it.
Apple invented something, not what people didn't know they already wanted, but something that "made sense" as a product. There was a reason for the iPad existing. In fact, Steve told us those reasons during its announcement. Consumers bought it in droves because the iPad is a great and useful product that serves many purposes in a slim package, not because they were listened to.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
4" isn't a scientific number.
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small. They may even stick with 3.5 or go to 3.7 or something. They won't add a 4.3" display just because: "these other phones have it". If they do go up to 4.3" it will because they figured out a way to do it without making the overall device size any bigger.
It is a scientific unit of measurement. The International System of Units says it?s 25.4mm. Only metric can be ?scientific??
I don?t understand your point at all. You say that Apple like their devices small. That makes no sense when you look at the Mac Pro, 27? iMac, 17? MBP and the 9.7? iPad. They like there devices thin but they have plenty of devices with displays that have become larger.
Did you claim that Apple won?t make a tablet because the display is too large and they like their devices ?small?? Of course you didn?t.
Again, why would they create a new interface and SDK for a 3.7? or up to 4? but anything larger? It really sounds like you are just making things up without thinking them through, which is exactly what you accused others of doing.
If I recall you said that an Apple tablet would have Mac OS X on it despite all the reasonable people saying it needs a unique interface to make it work.
I distinctly remembered calling the OS Mac OS X touch. That is not Mac OS X. I said it would need to be re written for the ground up for touch. Go back and read what I said. That said...
I admitted I was off on that one and took it on the chin. And I like my iPad. And yes, I fell into the camp that went after the iPhone 4 antenna, but I'm over that now. It was overblown. I was wrong.
It is a scientific unit of measurement.
Does the term "figure of speech" evade you? Language context?
I don?t understand your point at all. You say that Apple like their devices small. That makes no sense when you look at the Mac Pro, 27? iMac, 17? MBP and the 9.7? iPad. They like there devices thin but they have plenty of devices with displays that have become larger.
Someone talk to this guy.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
My dear friend, I will return the compliment you once threw upon me and say emphatically that once you cross the threshold of three medium length sentences in one post, your rhetorical acumen opens a door to all too withheld clear-sightedness.
Were it stricly for my own benefit, please do expend yourself more often...