I knew that Steve would eat his own words claiming DOA when the Galaxy Tab launched with the 7" screen. It's purpose was to rain on Samsung's parade to quell Apple's competition by putting the words "DOA" into journalists hands.
He obviously saw Samsung as a threat ( and they should be).
Call bs on a six inch device. Cause if apple were to ship one it would have to come with a knife to shave down your fingertips.
You're taking Job's marketing speak for what he was describing as a tablet to literally, or with convenient blinders on. The iPhone and iPod Touch came before the iPad by almost three tees with 1/8th the display/touch space. Surely you don't think jobs expected people to widdle down their fingers for a smartphone and Personal media player and Internet device. For this reason I'd assume any device in that size range to be grouped with the iPods. Before you say that Jobs is just covering his ass by grouping it that way note that these devices spend years in development.
In the same response that you trashed everybody that said something won't happen you go on to predict that something won't happen! Do you not see the problem here?
As to a sub ten inch iPad or a big iPod Touch; such a device makes a lot of sense because the current iPad is way to big. To big that is for many uses where a portable tablet could be very useful.
Contrary to popular opinion here, this is not a one size fits all world. The potential market for a sub 7" tablet, with good software support, is huge. I would estimate that twice the volume of the current iPad is easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
The threads are well read. Further they are filled with well presented points of view. Those views might not jive with yours but they are valid none the less.
Quote:
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
Well yeah lots of examples can be found in these forums. However that doesn't dismiss well thought out points of view.
Quote:
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
We shall see. But to be perfectly blunt you have to be crazy to think that iPad is the only other physical size of Touch devices we will ever see. Apple has great start on tablet type GUIs and as such they have virtual blank slates to put that GUI on. All they really need to believe is that sales will be there to justify the price.
Just one example where a device around five inches would be very desirable is tablet optimized for in car navigation. Salesman would love such a device as would field techs and others that need to travel with a lot of "stuff" and need to minimize their electronic load. The value is in having all your electronic needs taken care of in one small electronic device.
In any event just because you where right about iPad does not mean that everybody else shares your perspective. In simple terms iPad is just to big for some uses.
After going through the thread, looks to me that if the rumor is true, this new iDevice would be analogous to the Samsung Galaxy Tab (w/o Honeycomb since that is supposedly a Tablet UI vs FroYo which is a phone form factor UI).
I believe he means the size, as in a 9.7" display for a tablet device, is perfect.
Apple markets what it has to sell at the time. I'm not sure why people have trouble digesting this. Apple could have came out with an 8" or 12" iPad and declared it perfect. It is nothing more than marketing speak and should be treated as such.
Beyound that it is foolish to believe we will only have one IPad size and one Touch size. Forever is along time. Also Apple is finally in a position to spend freely on R&D and new product development. This isn't the Apple of the 90's.
Apple markets what it has to sell at the time. I'm not sure why people have trouble digesting this. Apple could have came out with an 8" or 12" iPad and declared it perfect. It is nothing more than marketing speak and should be treated as such.
I disagree. I believe the iPad came out as 10" because, for Apple, in their research they found 10" to work the best as a screen you hold in your hands for general computing. As a sole-function book reader 7" is a better size. The 6" Kindle is too small, I own one. 7" would be better. As a tablet computer 10" is where it's at.
Why do you think Samsung lately have announced the 10.1 Tab. It's sort of like a tennis racket, they all eventually settle on a size the works the best.
I disagree. I believe the iPad came out as 10" because, for Apple, in their research they found 10" to work the best as a screen you hold in your hands for general computing. As a sole-function book reader 7" is a better size. The 6" Kindle is too small, I own one. 7" would be better. As a tablet computer 10" is where it's at.
Why do you think Samsung lately have announced the 10.1 Tab. It's sort of like a tennis racket, they all eventually settle on a size the works the best.
I can?t agree with 7? being a better size ?soley" for reading. For certain readers I?m sure it is, and I?m sure that certain types of books it?s a better overall size, but note that Hardcover fiction opens to be about the size of the iPad?s footprint, yet they still sell the larger size first with the smaller paperback coming about a year or so later at a reduced price.
Then there are textbooks and books and that have images and diagrams. I think I can say with certainty that most of them are considerably larger than the the iPad when opened, not to mention heavier.
The only books that are smaller are typically smaller are rerun novels, books that aren?t popular enough to be worth of the larger size, and pocketable or nearly-pocketable quick reference guides, with a few other types taking up a lot of small categories at the end. These are about 7? diagonal when opened up.
I?ve seen fantasy and science fiction that are somewhere in between those two sizes but those aren?t the norm. Then there are the plethora of books sizes and shapes for various marketing or utility reasons, but those are on a per-book basis, not the norm.
So you played games on an iPad an thought: "if only this was smaller". No one thinks that. 10" is not actually that big for a screen. Even watching movies 13" is far better. They make a pocket computer and a tablet computer, they have no need for a tweener. Apple always walk to the beat of their own drummer. And that tends to be 'cause they deeply think through what makes sense as a product.
If Apple was run by some of you guys they'd have 1", 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 7", 8", 9", 10", 11", 12" and 13" touch screen products to make sure they catered to every possible person out there. That's the MS way, the AOL way, it's not the Apple way.
I agree. The current size of the iPad screen seems perfect for a personal information & content viewing device. Anything smaller should be marketed as a larger iPod Touch and shouldn't exceed 4" screen size.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
Oh damn thats funny. Apple getting advice from a place like this would be like an international baccalaureate honors student getting advice form the kid that rides the short bus.
We have threads on this forum where people actually debate where somone is sitting at dinner with the President as if the seating has some deep meaning. Or threads where people start breaking into tears when Steve Jobs goes on leave.
Oh damn thats funny. Apple getting advice from a place like this would be like an international baccalaureate honors student getting advice form the kid that rides the short bus.
There are also heated arguments over the meaning and usage of words.
Quote:
We have threads on this forum where people actually debate where somone is sitting at dinner with the President as if the seating has some deep meaning. Or threads where people start breaking into tears when Steve Jobs goes on leave.
Wouldn?t that be supper or a dinner party to relate to the formal aspect?
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small
To a fault. Sometimes they "improve" on a next model by making it smaller at some sacrifice. I've had a 4th Gen touch for a week and I still hate the form factor over the previous one. It's too thin. It's not pleasant in the hand. It's harder to grip. I wish it was the same shape and size of the previous version.
I distinctly remembered calling the OS Mac OS X touch. That is not Mac OS X. I said it would need to be re written for the ground up for touch. Go back and read what I said. That said...
I admitted I was off on that one and took it on the chin. And I like my iPad. And yes, I fell into the camp that went after the iPhone 4 antenna, but I'm over that now. It was overblown. I was wrong.
You give yourself a bit too much credit. You normally whinge and bellyache that something isn't made or rumored to be exactly the way you want it (not talking about the antenna, it's your MO in general). At least you do it reasonably so it's understandable and non-threatening. We understand where you are coming from even if not all of us agree and get frustrated over it. You're just part of this big dysfunctional family!
I can see a large touch. It fills a different niche than an iPad. I have been on record since prior to the iPhone release wanting an approximately steno-pad sized note-taking appliance. Turns out in the large scheme the original tabled iPad was just about what I was asking for, then we got to wait another 4 years for something that's too big for my tastes. I'd be happier with 1/4 inch bevels , but really happy with a 3:2 ~7" screen and no bezel. Sure it would be less capable than an iPad, but that would be fine for me. I don't want a standalone tablet, I really want a laptop extending appliance.
Comments
The new bigger ipod touch
Nope.
3D unit that dont required glasses
NOPE.
I knew that Steve would eat his own words claiming DOA when the Galaxy Tab launched with the 7" screen. It's purpose was to rain on Samsung's parade to quell Apple's competition by putting the words "DOA" into journalists hands.
He obviously saw Samsung as a threat ( and they should be).
Now look at Apple now, eating its own words.
Call bs on a six inch device. Cause if apple were to ship one it would have to come with a knife to shave down your fingertips.
You're taking Job's marketing speak for what he was describing as a tablet to literally, or with convenient blinders on. The iPhone and iPod Touch came before the iPad by almost three tees with 1/8th the display/touch space. Surely you don't think jobs expected people to widdle down their fingers for a smartphone and Personal media player and Internet device. For this reason I'd assume any device in that size range to be grouped with the iPods. Before you say that Jobs is just covering his ass by grouping it that way note that these devices spend years in development.
As to a sub ten inch iPad or a big iPod Touch; such a device makes a lot of sense because the current iPad is way to big. To big that is for many uses where a portable tablet could be very useful.
Contrary to popular opinion here, this is not a one size fits all world. The potential market for a sub 7" tablet, with good software support, is huge. I would estimate that twice the volume of the current iPad is easy.
Not one person here has seemed to understand my point that the iPod touch is of a certain size because it needs to be pocketable. Do people even read these threads, or do they just come along to submit a random comment and leave?
The threads are well read. Further they are filled with well presented points of view. Those views might not jive with yours but they are valid none the less.
I don't know if I agree with everything nkhm said there, but he essentially made sense. No wonder Gruber has made such a following. Most people don't really think through what they want to say when it comes to tech. And in particular the future of tech.
Well yeah lots of examples can be found in these forums. However that doesn't dismiss well thought out points of view.
You only need to look at Apple mockups out there to see how wrong people can be. Apple tends to make simple products that make sense. People looking at Apple from the outside tend to think the next Apple product is going to have wings.
It's like the whole Apple Television thing. People or still debating whether or not Apple are going to make an actual TV, and not what they should be debating - what the TV is going to look like. If you're still in the group that thinks Apple are "never" going to make a TV then in my opinion you need to keep your mouth closed in future.
When myself and a few others here said Apple are going to make a phone - "they have no choice" I recall saying - people around here called us idiots. When a few here including myself said Apple are going to make a tablet, we were ridiculed. And when we said an Apple Tele is eventually coming, the same thing.
After all three off these products come to be no one will ever say: you know what, we were all wrong.
It's not that difficult to give general product predictions with Apple. But no matter how many times you get it right people never recall all the shouting you did at the time. I recall only one member here sending me an PM apology when the iPad was announced. I predicted 10" and everyone practically said I was crazy thinking it would be that big. The consensus at the time seemed to be 7". I have always argued that size never made sense, and I turned out to right. Now we come full-circle and we're back to this 6-7" talk. Do ye people ever learn?
We shall see. But to be perfectly blunt you have to be crazy to think that iPad is the only other physical size of Touch devices we will ever see. Apple has great start on tablet type GUIs and as such they have virtual blank slates to put that GUI on. All they really need to believe is that sales will be there to justify the price.
Just one example where a device around five inches would be very desirable is tablet optimized for in car navigation. Salesman would love such a device as would field techs and others that need to travel with a lot of "stuff" and need to minimize their electronic load. The value is in having all your electronic needs taken care of in one small electronic device.
In any event just because you where right about iPad does not mean that everybody else shares your perspective. In simple terms iPad is just to big for some uses.
I believe he means the size, as in a 9.7" display for a tablet device, is perfect.
Apple markets what it has to sell at the time. I'm not sure why people have trouble digesting this. Apple could have came out with an 8" or 12" iPad and declared it perfect. It is nothing more than marketing speak and should be treated as such.
Beyound that it is foolish to believe we will only have one IPad size and one Touch size. Forever is along time. Also Apple is finally in a position to spend freely on R&D and new product development. This isn't the Apple of the 90's.
Apple markets what it has to sell at the time. I'm not sure why people have trouble digesting this. Apple could have came out with an 8" or 12" iPad and declared it perfect. It is nothing more than marketing speak and should be treated as such.
I disagree. I believe the iPad came out as 10" because, for Apple, in their research they found 10" to work the best as a screen you hold in your hands for general computing. As a sole-function book reader 7" is a better size. The 6" Kindle is too small, I own one. 7" would be better. As a tablet computer 10" is where it's at.
Why do you think Samsung lately have announced the 10.1 Tab. It's sort of like a tennis racket, they all eventually settle on a size the works the best.
Beyound that it is foolish to believe we will only have one IPad size and one Touch size. Forever is along time.
Nothing lasts forever in this world.
I disagree. I believe the iPad came out as 10" because, for Apple, in their research they found 10" to work the best as a screen you hold in your hands for general computing. As a sole-function book reader 7" is a better size. The 6" Kindle is too small, I own one. 7" would be better. As a tablet computer 10" is where it's at.
Why do you think Samsung lately have announced the 10.1 Tab. It's sort of like a tennis racket, they all eventually settle on a size the works the best.
I can?t agree with 7? being a better size ?soley" for reading. For certain readers I?m sure it is, and I?m sure that certain types of books it?s a better overall size, but note that Hardcover fiction opens to be about the size of the iPad?s footprint, yet they still sell the larger size first with the smaller paperback coming about a year or so later at a reduced price.
Then there are textbooks and books and that have images and diagrams. I think I can say with certainty that most of them are considerably larger than the the iPad when opened, not to mention heavier.
The only books that are smaller are typically smaller are rerun novels, books that aren?t popular enough to be worth of the larger size, and pocketable or nearly-pocketable quick reference guides, with a few other types taking up a lot of small categories at the end. These are about 7? diagonal when opened up.
I?ve seen fantasy and science fiction that are somewhere in between those two sizes but those aren?t the norm. Then there are the plethora of books sizes and shapes for various marketing or utility reasons, but those are on a per-book basis, not the norm.
So you played games on an iPad an thought: "if only this was smaller". No one thinks that. 10" is not actually that big for a screen. Even watching movies 13" is far better. They make a pocket computer and a tablet computer, they have no need for a tweener. Apple always walk to the beat of their own drummer. And that tends to be 'cause they deeply think through what makes sense as a product.
If Apple was run by some of you guys they'd have 1", 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 7", 8", 9", 10", 11", 12" and 13" touch screen products to make sure they catered to every possible person out there. That's the MS way, the AOL way, it's not the Apple way.
I agree. The current size of the iPad screen seems perfect for a personal information & content viewing device. Anything smaller should be marketed as a larger iPod Touch and shouldn't exceed 4" screen size.
Actually, I believe that Apple 'listens' to its customers a lot, but not in the traditional sense of focus groups, market research surveys and such.
More important, it knows its customers so well that sometimes, it is capable of anticipating where it's core group of longstanding customers wants to go next.
Moreover, not every company has the benefit of an abundance of free (and passionately so!) advice from many, many settings like these!
Oh damn thats funny. Apple getting advice from a place like this would be like an international baccalaureate honors student getting advice form the kid that rides the short bus.
We have threads on this forum where people actually debate where somone is sitting at dinner with the President as if the seating has some deep meaning. Or threads where people start breaking into tears when Steve Jobs goes on leave.
Oh damn thats funny. Apple getting advice from a place like this would be like an international baccalaureate honors student getting advice form the kid that rides the short bus.
There are also heated arguments over the meaning and usage of words.
We have threads on this forum where people actually debate where somone is sitting at dinner with the President as if the seating has some deep meaning. Or threads where people start breaking into tears when Steve Jobs goes on leave.
Wouldn?t that be supper or a dinner party to relate to the formal aspect?
Sure, nailed it, that's it...
How is this "breaking news"?
Replying to your own quote.
My point is: Apple likes to keep their devices small
To a fault. Sometimes they "improve" on a next model by making it smaller at some sacrifice. I've had a 4th Gen touch for a week and I still hate the form factor over the previous one. It's too thin. It's not pleasant in the hand. It's harder to grip. I wish it was the same shape and size of the previous version.
I distinctly remembered calling the OS Mac OS X touch. That is not Mac OS X. I said it would need to be re written for the ground up for touch. Go back and read what I said. That said...
I admitted I was off on that one and took it on the chin. And I like my iPad. And yes, I fell into the camp that went after the iPhone 4 antenna, but I'm over that now. It was overblown. I was wrong.
You give yourself a bit too much credit. You normally whinge and bellyache that something isn't made or rumored to be exactly the way you want it (not talking about the antenna, it's your MO in general). At least you do it reasonably so it's understandable and non-threatening. We understand where you are coming from even if not all of us agree and get frustrated over it. You're just part of this big dysfunctional family!
I can see a large touch. It fills a different niche than an iPad. I have been on record since prior to the iPhone release wanting an approximately steno-pad sized note-taking appliance. Turns out in the large scheme the original tabled iPad was just about what I was asking for, then we got to wait another 4 years for something that's too big for my tastes. I'd be happier with 1/4 inch bevels , but really happy with a 3:2 ~7" screen and no bezel. Sure it would be less capable than an iPad, but that would be fine for me. I don't want a standalone tablet, I really want a laptop extending appliance.
Nope.
NOPE.
You can "nope" me all night long it wont change the fact that there Is a new gaming gadget coming and a major unexpected software update.
Honestly, what kind of work can you get done on a device such as you describe? Serious think about how that would work.
Work huh, just what the hell are all the unemployed supposed to do all day! jeez