Why do we need 3 different 13" inch models? I just don't get it. Do they sell bucket loads of 13" models and very few 15/17" models? Seems to me that the laptop range is all confused at the moment. Maybe the rumours of a complete redsign next year are true and we'll see the MB, MBA and MBP unified into one product line with an all new design. I hope so.
No 13? matte option. Suck for few that weren?t going to buy a new Mac unless it was an option across the board.
The battery life hasn?t gone done. They?ve merely changed the way they measure usage. Jobs stated they were going to do this last year and their MBP pages explain this change in how the measure real world usage.
It is the same thing they did with yours cars MPG a few years ago, almost every car dropped by 2 - 8 MPG. It was to ensure the windows sticker better represented actual driving experience. If you truly get 7 hours on the MBP 17" with a quad core that is great... my Sony Vaio with quad got at best 1.5hrs.
This was no re-design for sure, it is a Intel update (processor and Thunderbolt).... what has Apple been doing for the last two years? working on the air?
Who said redesign? Who wanted a redesign? They kept the last design for five years.
Quote:
in the corporate world people will not be running around with Thunderbolt drives so the extra speed over USB2 would have been nice.
What the frick makes you think that? Thunderbolt's twice as fast as USB and is a standard. No one will have USB drives when you can transfer at Thunderbolt speeds.
Why do we need 3 different 13" inch models? I just don't get it. Do they sell bucket loads of 13" models and very few 15/17" models? Seems to me that the laptop range is all confused at the moment. Maybe the rumours of a complete redsign next year are true and we'll see the MB, MBA and MBP unified into one product line with an all new design. I hope so.
They don't they have 2. Unless you're counting the MacBook and MacBook Air, then there are 5 base models of Apple laptops at 13".
Why do we need 3 different 13" inch models? I just don't get it. Do they sell bucket loads of 13" models and very few 15/17" models? Seems to me that the laptop range is all confused at the moment. Maybe the rumours of a complete redsign next year are true and we'll see the MB, MBA and MBP unified into one product line with an all new design. I hope so.
Each has very different segments they sell to. Yes, the 13? does sell more than the larger sizes. It?s part of a basic economic model that less expensive items sell more units.
I think white MacBook won?t last through the next upgrade. I think they will keep the current 13? design for the new $999 MacBook.
I'm surprised that battery life went down, across the board. Faster processors, and some new goodies like Thunderbolt, but largely unremarkable. But the 13" used to boast 10 hours, and the 15-17" boasted 8-9 hours, and now battery life is just 7 hours.
This steers me much more towards a Macbook Air. I was hoping that, based on Jobs' comments that the new Air represented 'the future of the Macbook line', that it was immenent in this refresh. Even the Air webpage says "the next generation of Macbooks." Yet what we get in this refresh is mostly just faster old-skool technology. If the MBP had longer battery life and solid-state storage, I would have gone with a MBP. A 13" MBP configured with a 256GB SSD is $2550, compared to $1800 for a maxed-out Air. You end up trading a slower processor for lighter weight, but both have the same battery life.
1- Battery life is UP
2-MacBookPro is 10x faster than an Air (therefore use more power)
3-Thunderbolt is FUCKIN AWESOME (i like the name too)
4- Pro has a lot of things Air does not (even some dumb ones, like an ODD)
The Macbook Pro 13", which most people thought was a puny upgrade, is actually very good. You gain +50% storage, double the CPU performance, increase in 33% the RAM speed, gain HD camera, gain Thunderbolt. Even the Intel HD 3000 gets as good as a 320M thanks to it being Turbo-able, and it shares +50% memory than the 320M (low shared memory is a problem for games)
And since most graphics usage Apple expects its users to do isn't games (though I will), the HD3000 and its superior GPU transcoding comparing to the 320M won't be an issue.
AnandTech's tests show it to be a bit (~3fps) slower in games than the 320M, but 1) I don't know whether it had Turbo [20% performance increase] on and 2) Future updates will probably fix this, as the gap is really small.
Who said redesign? Who wanted a redesign? They kept the last design for five years.
What the frick makes you think that? Thunderbolt's twice as fast as USB and is a standard. No one will have USB drives when you can transfer at Thunderbolt speeds.
Have you seen how many USB sticks and drives there are in any given office?
If you are going to have USB ports then they should be the latest version... you really can't argue that Apple missed the boat on this one.
Firewire was faster than USB but I don't see Costco selling 5 different versions of a firewire drive.
May I now laugh at all those Photoshop "experts" who were screaming "fake!!!" and argued about "faulty angles" and whatnot in those Thunderbolt port pics yesterday. BWAHAHAHAA.
Actually, you may not. Those pictures showed the MagSafe connector with with the new 5-pin arrangement for ThunderBolt and now we know that is not coming in this current iteration of MacBook's
Have you seen how many USB sticks and drives there are in any given office?
If you are going to have USB ports then they should be the latest version... you really can't argue that Apple missed the boat on this one.
Firewire was faster than USB but I don't see Costco selling 5 different versions of a firewire drive.
Let?s see USB isn?t free, but it?s cheap, while FireWire licensing was expensive. Yet using a mDP port has no licensing fees at all. It might be slightly costlier since it lacks economy of scale for the port interface HW, but that is fractions of a penny.
Or are you arguing that the faster connection will fail because that is what happened to FiewWire compared to USB?
Again, Thunderbolt can do better than USB3.0, FireWire 3200 and 1000BASE-T Ethernet speeds whiles supporting their protocols. This doesn?t change the future of cables and accessories but makes mDP for displays vastly more popular going forward. USB-IF dug their own grave.
Yes, a drop in the number stated, not in the usage achieved. If you had been paying attention you?d have seen this was coming last year when Jobs stated it.
any guesses whether thunderbolt will support target disk mode? It does say it supports firewire with an adaptor...
Maybe, but what if you are connecting two Macs over Thunderbolt? What protocol will it choose? How can you choose? You?re really better off letting TDM go as it?s old and dated and just using an external HDD, USB drive, TB drive, or SD card to boot into Mac OS X if need be.
I stand by the belief Apple is choosing where to upgrade and where to skimp in order to keep component costs low.
1- No USB 3
2- No Blu-Ray
3- No Expresscard slot except in 17" model.
yes Thunderbolt sounds good, and great that they added it. they can and could do more.
the new limitations on MBP's advancement are largely based on doing as much as they can, with as little cost as possible. Much like the ipad or iphone, the Mac Hardware is starting to get limited based on this.
Sorry, but I am starting to believe those who drink the Apple Koolaid are more lemmings than real nerds who care about quality and diversity.
Apple is starting to piss off alot of their core consumers and while it isn't evident now. it will be in several years. when all they are left with is a bunch of former windows noobs who switched. and many of the former Mac Elite and evangelists go Windows instead.
With the new actions of Apple to monetize ipad, iphone and more at 30% demanded royalties. The same treatment in the new Mac Software Store, Apple is starting to act like more of a monopoly than Microsoft ever did.
Only one thing disturbs me, and this seems indicative of Apple's recent money-grubbing. WTF is Apple doing charging for FaceTime? This is just nickle-and-diming the customers. I am sorry, but this should be included with MacOS and iOS. To charge for this after previously providing (similar) iChat with MacOS strikes me as a very Microsoft thing to do. Tacky Apple, tacky.
Facetime is ubiquitous on newer iOS devices. To make it ubiquitous on MacOS devices, too, would probably signal anti-trust complaints from the likes of Skype. Making it an optional app keeps them out of the anti-trust waters. Making it 99c means only those who actually want it will get it, and keep away accusors from claiming, "Waaaah... I didn't want Facetime, and it came on my Mac by default... wahhhhhh... !"
Not very impressed with this "upgrade." I have no use for "thunderbolt" until there are products that support it and I'm not keen on carrying around a bag full of adapters that cost $50 each.
Yes, the processor upgrade is nice but it's hardly worth spending another 1200 or more to get. I'll be waiting for the next upgrade. Hopefully that one is actually significant.
This is NOT productivity software equivalent to iLife. This software is the equivalent to iChat - MINUS features...and iChat is free with OSX. I guess you did not read my entire post.
I did read what you said, and the difference is in your post. Apple provided the first version of iChat along with Mac OS X 10.2. With the upgrade to Jaguar (or the purchase of a new Mac with Jaguar) iChat was part of the OS and was included as part of that purchase price. Likewise, when iChat AV was released, it was part of Panther, and you had to upgrade to panther or buy a Mac running Panther to get it. FaceTime on the other hand is a standalone release that is coming out between major OS releases. Obviously when Lion comes out, Facetime will be built into it. And, it is already built into current gen iPhones and iPod Touch. Until that time, I don't think 99 cents is too much to ask. If this price bothers you so much, then wait for Lion.
Relieved I can skip this one. i5 is nice, but still stuck on 1200 x 800, the graphics "upgrade" is negligible (if it exists at all) and Thunderbolt is not ubiquitous enough yet to be an essential. The resolution is a deal-killer. The 13' Air has 1440 x 900, so why not the "Pro"? Don't feel so bad about sticking with my mid-2010 until next summer now, or even longer if there's a redesign coming. SSD prices should be somewhat reasonable by then, too.
(The 7 hour is probably is probably longer, though, as they're not making silly claims as much as they used to. I never get the advertised 10 "wireless-web". It's usually a little more than half that.)
Let?s see USB isn?t free, but it?s cheap, while FireWire licensing was expensive. Yet using a mDP port has no licensing fees at all. It might be slightly costlier since it lacks economy of scale for the port interface HW, but that is fractions of a penny.
Or are you arguing that the faster connection will fail because that is what happened to FiewWire compared to USB?
Again, Thunderbolt can do better than USB3.0, FireWire 3200 and 1000BASE-T Ethernet speeds whiles supporting their protocols. This doesn?t change the future of cables and accessories but makes mDP for displays vastly more popular going forward. USB-IF dug their own grave.
I am arguing that if you are going to have USB ports they should be the latest version which is now 3 not 2. We will need to wait and see with Thunderbolt, if it is adopted by the PC manufactures then the devices will follow. Not sure if this is fair or not but Beta was better than VHS.
Comments
No 13? matte option. Suck for few that weren?t going to buy a new Mac unless it was an option across the board.
The battery life hasn?t gone done. They?ve merely changed the way they measure usage. Jobs stated they were going to do this last year and their MBP pages explain this change in how the measure real world usage.
It is the same thing they did with yours cars MPG a few years ago, almost every car dropped by 2 - 8 MPG. It was to ensure the windows sticker better represented actual driving experience. If you truly get 7 hours on the MBP 17" with a quad core that is great... my Sony Vaio with quad got at best 1.5hrs.
This was no re-design for sure, it is a Intel update (processor and Thunderbolt).... what has Apple been doing for the last two years? working on the air?
Who said redesign? Who wanted a redesign? They kept the last design for five years.
in the corporate world people will not be running around with Thunderbolt drives so the extra speed over USB2 would have been nice.
What the frick makes you think that? Thunderbolt's twice as fast as USB and is a standard. No one will have USB drives when you can transfer at Thunderbolt speeds.
Why do we need 3 different 13" inch models? I just don't get it. Do they sell bucket loads of 13" models and very few 15/17" models? Seems to me that the laptop range is all confused at the moment. Maybe the rumours of a complete redsign next year are true and we'll see the MB, MBA and MBP unified into one product line with an all new design. I hope so.
They don't they have 2. Unless you're counting the MacBook and MacBook Air, then there are 5 base models of Apple laptops at 13".
Why do we need 3 different 13" inch models? I just don't get it. Do they sell bucket loads of 13" models and very few 15/17" models? Seems to me that the laptop range is all confused at the moment. Maybe the rumours of a complete redsign next year are true and we'll see the MB, MBA and MBP unified into one product line with an all new design. I hope so.
Each has very different segments they sell to. Yes, the 13? does sell more than the larger sizes. It?s part of a basic economic model that less expensive items sell more units.
I think white MacBook won?t last through the next upgrade. I think they will keep the current 13? design for the new $999 MacBook.
I'm surprised that battery life went down, across the board. Faster processors, and some new goodies like Thunderbolt, but largely unremarkable. But the 13" used to boast 10 hours, and the 15-17" boasted 8-9 hours, and now battery life is just 7 hours.
This steers me much more towards a Macbook Air. I was hoping that, based on Jobs' comments that the new Air represented 'the future of the Macbook line', that it was immenent in this refresh. Even the Air webpage says "the next generation of Macbooks." Yet what we get in this refresh is mostly just faster old-skool technology. If the MBP had longer battery life and solid-state storage, I would have gone with a MBP. A 13" MBP configured with a 256GB SSD is $2550, compared to $1800 for a maxed-out Air. You end up trading a slower processor for lighter weight, but both have the same battery life.
1- Battery life is UP
2-MacBookPro is 10x faster than an Air (therefore use more power)
3-Thunderbolt is FUCKIN AWESOME (i like the name too)
4- Pro has a lot of things Air does not (even some dumb ones, like an ODD)
The Macbook Pro 13", which most people thought was a puny upgrade, is actually very good. You gain +50% storage, double the CPU performance, increase in 33% the RAM speed, gain HD camera, gain Thunderbolt. Even the Intel HD 3000 gets as good as a 320M thanks to it being Turbo-able, and it shares +50% memory than the 320M (low shared memory is a problem for games)
And since most graphics usage Apple expects its users to do isn't games (though I will), the HD3000 and its superior GPU transcoding comparing to the 320M won't be an issue.
AnandTech's tests show it to be a bit (~3fps) slower in games than the 320M, but 1) I don't know whether it had Turbo [20% performance increase] on and 2) Future updates will probably fix this, as the gap is really small.
Who said redesign? Who wanted a redesign? They kept the last design for five years.
What the frick makes you think that? Thunderbolt's twice as fast as USB and is a standard. No one will have USB drives when you can transfer at Thunderbolt speeds.
Have you seen how many USB sticks and drives there are in any given office?
If you are going to have USB ports then they should be the latest version... you really can't argue that Apple missed the boat on this one.
Firewire was faster than USB but I don't see Costco selling 5 different versions of a firewire drive.
May I now laugh at all those Photoshop "experts" who were screaming "fake!!!" and argued about "faulty angles" and whatnot in those Thunderbolt port pics yesterday. BWAHAHAHAA.
Actually, you may not. Those pictures showed the MagSafe connector with with the new 5-pin arrangement for ThunderBolt and now we know that is not coming in this current iteration of MacBook's
Have you seen how many USB sticks and drives there are in any given office?
If you are going to have USB ports then they should be the latest version... you really can't argue that Apple missed the boat on this one.
Firewire was faster than USB but I don't see Costco selling 5 different versions of a firewire drive.
Let?s see USB isn?t free, but it?s cheap, while FireWire licensing was expensive. Yet using a mDP port has no licensing fees at all. It might be slightly costlier since it lacks economy of scale for the port interface HW, but that is fractions of a penny.
Or are you arguing that the faster connection will fail because that is what happened to FiewWire compared to USB?
Again, Thunderbolt can do better than USB3.0, FireWire 3200 and 1000BASE-T Ethernet speeds whiles supporting their protocols. This doesn?t change the future of cables and accessories but makes mDP for displays vastly more popular going forward. USB-IF dug their own grave.
An almost 30% drop in battery autonomy... Really?
Yes, a drop in the number stated, not in the usage achieved. If you had been paying attention you?d have seen this was coming last year when Jobs stated it.
Man you would bitch if they hung you with a new rope eh......
And if Jobs shit on your bed you'd call it a pillow mint.
any guesses whether thunderbolt will support target disk mode? It does say it supports firewire with an adaptor...
Maybe, but what if you are connecting two Macs over Thunderbolt? What protocol will it choose? How can you choose? You?re really better off letting TDM go as it?s old and dated and just using an external HDD, USB drive, TB drive, or SD card to boot into Mac OS X if need be.
1- No USB 3
2- No Blu-Ray
3- No Expresscard slot except in 17" model.
yes Thunderbolt sounds good, and great that they added it. they can and could do more.
the new limitations on MBP's advancement are largely based on doing as much as they can, with as little cost as possible. Much like the ipad or iphone, the Mac Hardware is starting to get limited based on this.
Sorry, but I am starting to believe those who drink the Apple Koolaid are more lemmings than real nerds who care about quality and diversity.
Apple is starting to piss off alot of their core consumers and while it isn't evident now. it will be in several years. when all they are left with is a bunch of former windows noobs who switched. and many of the former Mac Elite and evangelists go Windows instead.
With the new actions of Apple to monetize ipad, iphone and more at 30% demanded royalties. The same treatment in the new Mac Software Store, Apple is starting to act like more of a monopoly than Microsoft ever did.
Only one thing disturbs me, and this seems indicative of Apple's recent money-grubbing. WTF is Apple doing charging for FaceTime? This is just nickle-and-diming the customers. I am sorry, but this should be included with MacOS and iOS. To charge for this after previously providing (similar) iChat with MacOS strikes me as a very Microsoft thing to do. Tacky Apple, tacky.
Facetime is ubiquitous on newer iOS devices. To make it ubiquitous on MacOS devices, too, would probably signal anti-trust complaints from the likes of Skype. Making it an optional app keeps them out of the anti-trust waters. Making it 99c means only those who actually want it will get it, and keep away accusors from claiming, "Waaaah... I didn't want Facetime, and it came on my Mac by default... wahhhhhh... !"
Yes, the processor upgrade is nice but it's hardly worth spending another 1200 or more to get. I'll be waiting for the next upgrade. Hopefully that one is actually significant.
This is NOT productivity software equivalent to iLife. This software is the equivalent to iChat - MINUS features...and iChat is free with OSX. I guess you did not read my entire post.
I did read what you said, and the difference is in your post. Apple provided the first version of iChat along with Mac OS X 10.2. With the upgrade to Jaguar (or the purchase of a new Mac with Jaguar) iChat was part of the OS and was included as part of that purchase price. Likewise, when iChat AV was released, it was part of Panther, and you had to upgrade to panther or buy a Mac running Panther to get it. FaceTime on the other hand is a standalone release that is coming out between major OS releases. Obviously when Lion comes out, Facetime will be built into it. And, it is already built into current gen iPhones and iPod Touch. Until that time, I don't think 99 cents is too much to ask. If this price bothers you so much, then wait for Lion.
(The 7 hour is probably is probably longer, though, as they're not making silly claims as much as they used to. I never get the advertised 10 "wireless-web". It's usually a little more than half that.)
Let?s see USB isn?t free, but it?s cheap, while FireWire licensing was expensive. Yet using a mDP port has no licensing fees at all. It might be slightly costlier since it lacks economy of scale for the port interface HW, but that is fractions of a penny.
Or are you arguing that the faster connection will fail because that is what happened to FiewWire compared to USB?
Again, Thunderbolt can do better than USB3.0, FireWire 3200 and 1000BASE-T Ethernet speeds whiles supporting their protocols. This doesn?t change the future of cables and accessories but makes mDP for displays vastly more popular going forward. USB-IF dug their own grave.
I am arguing that if you are going to have USB ports they should be the latest version which is now 3 not 2. We will need to wait and see with Thunderbolt, if it is adopted by the PC manufactures then the devices will follow. Not sure if this is fair or not but Beta was better than VHS.