Jamie, Aeroplanes go both ways. Unlike most everyone on this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know, I'll be right over once I have finished with Stroszek. And I wouldn't be too sure about the AI members, I'm sure there are a few still in the closet!
I know, I'll be right over once I have finished with Stroszek. And I wouldn't be too sure about the AI members, I'm sure there are a few still in the closet!
J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
hold up! (and i write this as i sit in an airplane over the atlantic) if you are coming to the states when you finish with me, and i am going back when you finish with me, why am i coming to scotland again?
damn! the pilot said there's no way that he can stop and let me off the plane. apparently these new fangled aeroplane thingies aren't quite like the bus.
hold up! (and i write this as i sit in an airplane over the atlantic) if you are coming to the states when you finish with me, and i am going back when you finish with me, why am i coming to scotland again?
There's no average to maintain, if you look at my original statement I said that many gay men have 1000+ sexual partners in their lifetime. Many, not "most", not "all", not "gay men on average have 1000 sexual partners in their lifetime."
Many.
Many is simple a designation for "a lot".
"A lot" is when compared to the number of heterosexual men who have 1000+ different female sexual partners.
I don't have hard numbers and study details, but I'll see if I can get at them easily; if it's not easy I'm not going to dig.
I understand that there's a desire for homosexual men to make it seem like the homosexual sex aspect is essentially exactly the same as the heterosexual sex aspect, but it's not.
I don't say that from some kind of puritanical Christian stance, I say that from a stance of reality. You aren't persecuted by 'ole groverat, he voted Nader largely because he was the only candidate looking to right one of the few remaining social injustices in the U.S., the right to gay marriage.
I used to live in San Francisco, and believe me, many gay men have lots and lots of quick almost anonymous sex. There are areas around town, wooded areas, where men hang out waiting for passers by, then they go into the bushes. In the past, many of the bars used to have back rooms where people would pile up all night long (so say friends of mine) Plus there is the tradition of places called "glory holes". which is basically a place that you go into and there is a hole in the wall at about waist height . . . guess what that's for. When I lived there I would get "the look" from strangers all the time . . . and its obviouse what "the look" means... it means "hey dude, lets go behind the next corner as soon as this here bus stops and have sex" I am straight, but for some reason I get that look alot . . . even my wife comments on it - - anyway I also saw alot of pick up action take place . . it is a very easy scene if you like it . . .I new people that had sex more than once a day . . .with different people. Just think about it, most straight men I know are always fantasizing about the "zipless f*ck" . . . just think what happens when there is a city full of people all fantasizing about the same thing . .
But, there is also a lot of hetero sex in SF. . . swingers and underground sex clubs. (not that I would know from experience...I wouldn't) Its a town that's all for sensualism. . . pleasure and experimentation, not denial of the body.
Some people are "sex addicts"... and not just men. I talked with a psychiatrist about this and he said its more common than you might think . . but with sex addicts they need to have sex with real people almost everyday and it becomes the most dominant thing in there life . . .but because there are more than you might thinkof these poeple they can find partners through channels that exist.
Anyway, with that said I also know many gay people who are devoted monogamists, and, some who just don't go in for wild scenes . . .just like with heteros i would say that numerically its pretty similar.
<strong>Anyway, with that said I also know many gay people who are devoted monogamists, and, some who just don't go in for wild scenes . . .just like with heteros i would say that numerically its pretty similar.
Maybe I don't understand you here, but that was a pretty lengthy post talking about how gay men have sex all the time, they are always giving people "the look," etc, only to determine that gay people and straight people are similar?
by the way, i know "the look" and i would say you are misintrepretting it. "the look" was exchanged across the produce section last night, but not because i wanted to have sex over by the onions, but because he was cute, and i wanted to, well, look.
edit: i had misplaced all of my english skills when i originally posted.
Yeah I guess I sort of change my point at the end of the post...hm. However, I know that I have seen many men get picked up in a crowd and then go off together to one or the others apartments, have had friends that have partaken in such activities, and I know that it is very prevelent in places like San Francisco . . . used to be even more so when I lived there in the eighties. If you've lived there for any length of time then you know what I am talking about . . . and yu might even know the wooded areas that I am talking about. SF is a very sexually alive place, and it used to be very different than it is now. It is still a very vibrant town with an exciting atmsphere but it used to be wild. I moved there when the impact of aids was just really beginning to be felt and it changed the mood of the place drastically . . . but even in the darker times it was still a very pleasure oriented city.
I doubled back on my first point probably because I was thinking about the people that I know that are not in San Francisco... and they would probably object to my saying that there are more gay men into casual sex than straight men. . .
I just think... from experiences when I was single, that its easier to get a man to have sex with you, if all you want is sex, than it is to get a woman to do so .(not that women don't also sometimes just want sex) . . but it seems that with women there is more emotional involvement.... perhaps that has something to do with the differences between a mere BJ and real bodily penetration?
And, whenever I would see people obviously waiting in the shadows for the obviouse BJ in the woods in the somewhat famous places, famous for that, they were men . . .
testosterone is aggressive in an outward way . . and men have much more testosterone than women do . . .
As far as the look goes... don't mean to offend but I knnow when what is being offered is more than just appreciation . . there are more than one kind of look.
The talk about "the look" reminds me of a funny story that happened to my best (straight) friend.
He was over in the city and went into an adult bookstore, I didn't bother asking why. This is one of those stores that has the booths in the back that play videos, that you can buy tokens for and go in and watch. Apparently, they're also sometimes magnets for gay men wanting to hook up for quick sex. He didn't know that. So as he's making his way around the corner through the dark hallway to an open booth, he's doing all the wrong things. He's looking at the guys he passes, sometimes making eye contact (a huge DON'T if you're not looking for action). There's a whole sort of protocol for going to the booths (and no, I've never gone there so I don't really know how it all works). At any rate, he finds the booth he has a ticket for and goes in, and the door won't lock. He doesn't worry about it, until guys start walking in on him. Leaving your door unlocked is code for "please come in and have sex with me." Funny stuff. It was even funnier that he had no idea what was going on, until we were discussing it days later and I explained everything he'd done wrong.
(edited for clarity. i was PUI - posting under the influence, i should know better by now)
[ 06-13-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
[quote]and they would probably object to my saying that there are more gay men into casual sex than straight men. . . <hr></blockquote>
That's a problem, because many homosexuals want to combat the lies of the more conservative mainstream by spreading out new lies. That's counter-productive.
It's simply not true. Sure, there are homosexuals that seek out monogamous relationships, and that's because there are men who seek out monogamous relationships, with women or men.
Men are far more likely to be "wired" for "sex sex sex" than women, far more likely. And even within the male population the "sex sex sex" variety outnumbers by a great deal the "relationship relationship relationship" variety.
Homosexuals are just men who like other men. If you already know how men work then you know how homosexuals work.
And it's a double-edged sword. That "freedom" is something many homosexuals like to use as a good thing about being homosexual, using the openness to reinforce their confidence in the lifestyle, but when it is pointed out by the outside (by us breeders) they will get defensive. Like heterosexual "players" and "partiers".
Wow, amazing to see a thread I was sure would die off in a day reach two pages already.
1000 sexual partners in a lifetime? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yeah, back when I started college three years ago, I was shooting for that, but after the first 500 I got kind of sore and gave it up.
No, but seriously, that's obviously pretty flawed, and I think it just goes to show how fu cked up your average "scientific" study is. I mean, where did the survey occur, who did they ask? If you went to gay club, carefully avoiding anyone who was obviously in a happy long term relationship, and just asked the kids who were tweaked out and wearing nothing but a pair of track pants with their thong sticking out, then yeah, 1000 sounds about right.
But then, is that like a "projection?" A n optimistic estimate of sexual encounters yet to come. Or are we asking people on their deathbed how many they've had. If then, who keeps records like that.
Even if you put a notch on your belt every time you laid a new guy, you'd have to have like a sock drawer full of old useless belts, and what kind of self-respecting slut wears a belt anyway?
So, just for balance, what do the studies say about straight guys?
The higher end heterosexual men that I've seen in the studies (haven't learned so much about heterosexuals) is usually 3-4x less than the higher-end homosexual, around 250-300 in their lifetime.
You have your rock star aberrations, of course, and your Wilt Chamberlains, but they are far rarer than the homosexuals pushing huge numbers.
As a gay man myself, I have had two long-term relationships in my thirty-four years. One was 2-1/2 years, and the other is currently heating up at just about six years. I've also had a few (5...?) two-months-of-hot-sex-type relationships, where you wake up one day and realize that the only reason your with the other person is the sex, and that's not enough to put up with them anymore. Then there's a good fifteen hot weekends. And I would probabaly say another twenty-five one-night stands. There's also a couple what-the-hell's thrown in for...what-the-hell. <BR>
So how many is that? 50-60. <BR>
But, I think there is a difference with men in general. I've had sex with numerous men (obvously), but very often these little trysts are just JO sessions, hndjobs, or quick BJs. Often times these are quick relief sessions, more than sex. <BR>
It sounds a little trashy, but if you had the choice between poopin' one off yourself or having a little help, which would you take? The thing is, many str8 men partake in these activities regularly, but just like myself, don't *really* consider these as having had a partner. It more or less just helping each other out. <BR>
Personally, I'm not one for GloryHoles, but on the rare occaision that I have, I don't really consider that a partner (although I did include them in my count). And I doubt any str8 man that visits or does the same counts them in his list of partners, as well. He, most likely, only counts the women. In fact, if he got a BJ in the back of the car on the way home from a club, I doubt he counts that either. ANyone care to comment? <BR>
I will say that it can be quite easy to have a "partner"...sometimes. I lot of times it's easy to cut through the whole flirting mess at a bar or club, and just get right down to it. Persnally, I have walked up to men, and said, "I'm here to make passes at you..." And it can quickly go from there.
I remember a moovie from Fellini. A crazy (and straight) guy said that he has make love with 10 000 women (one women everynight for 30 years) . There was a museum remembering each night. In one boxe , there was an audio tape playing this : "no, no ! no ..; yes ..; still. There was other tremendeous Fellinians pictures in it.
Anyways , why do it bother you that some gay may have 1000 partners in a life (it's one partner each two weeks for 40 years afterall) ?
Live your own way, have one partner in a life, be a virgin or have 1000 partners if you want, doesn't have to copy the "straigth" guy.
It's not a shame to not be married and to not have kids, it will not make you an half human. Many peoples have to accept gay people even gay peoples themself.
[quote]the kids who were tweaked out and wearing nothing but a pair of track pants with their thong sticking out, then yeah, 1000 sounds about right.<hr></blockquote>
Hey, I knew I recognized you from somewhere! I need my track pants back! I'm going to club one this weekend.
powerdoc, i don't think it bothers us that some gay men have a thousand partners in a lifetime. the consensus seems to be that we're bothered because we're not one of them. :cool:
Comments
<strong>
Jamie, Aeroplanes go both ways. Unlike most everyone on this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
J :cool:
<strong>
J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
hold up! (and i write this as i sit in an airplane over the atlantic) if you are coming to the states when you finish with me, and i am going back when you finish with me, why am i coming to scotland again?
damn! the pilot said there's no way that he can stop and let me off the plane. apparently these new fangled aeroplane thingies aren't quite like the bus.
<strong>
hold up! (and i write this as i sit in an airplane over the atlantic) if you are coming to the states when you finish with me, and i am going back when you finish with me, why am i coming to scotland again?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
At least we can travel back together
J :cool:
Many.
Many is simple a designation for "a lot".
"A lot" is when compared to the number of heterosexual men who have 1000+ different female sexual partners.
I don't have hard numbers and study details, but I'll see if I can get at them easily; if it's not easy I'm not going to dig.
I understand that there's a desire for homosexual men to make it seem like the homosexual sex aspect is essentially exactly the same as the heterosexual sex aspect, but it's not.
I don't say that from some kind of puritanical Christian stance, I say that from a stance of reality. You aren't persecuted by 'ole groverat, he voted Nader largely because he was the only candidate looking to right one of the few remaining social injustices in the U.S., the right to gay marriage.
As for the sex being the same, it's not. And yet, it is. It's sex. I don't want to get into a big thing about it. Let's just let sleeping dogs lie, k?
But, there is also a lot of hetero sex in SF. . . swingers and underground sex clubs. (not that I would know from experience...I wouldn't) Its a town that's all for sensualism. . . pleasure and experimentation, not denial of the body.
Some people are "sex addicts"... and not just men. I talked with a psychiatrist about this and he said its more common than you might think . . but with sex addicts they need to have sex with real people almost everyday and it becomes the most dominant thing in there life . . .but because there are more than you might thinkof these poeple they can find partners through channels that exist.
Anyway, with that said I also know many gay people who are devoted monogamists, and, some who just don't go in for wild scenes . . .just like with heteros i would say that numerically its pretty similar.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
<strong>Anyway, with that said I also know many gay people who are devoted monogamists, and, some who just don't go in for wild scenes . . .just like with heteros i would say that numerically its pretty similar.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe I don't understand you here, but that was a pretty lengthy post talking about how gay men have sex all the time, they are always giving people "the look," etc, only to determine that gay people and straight people are similar?
by the way, i know "the look" and i would say you are misintrepretting it. "the look" was exchanged across the produce section last night, but not because i wanted to have sex over by the onions, but because he was cute, and i wanted to, well, look.
edit: i had misplaced all of my english skills when i originally posted.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Stroszek ]</p>
I doubled back on my first point probably because I was thinking about the people that I know that are not in San Francisco... and they would probably object to my saying that there are more gay men into casual sex than straight men. . .
I just think... from experiences when I was single, that its easier to get a man to have sex with you, if all you want is sex, than it is to get a woman to do so .(not that women don't also sometimes just want sex) . . but it seems that with women there is more emotional involvement.... perhaps that has something to do with the differences between a mere BJ and real bodily penetration?
And, whenever I would see people obviously waiting in the shadows for the obviouse BJ in the woods in the somewhat famous places, famous for that, they were men . . .
testosterone is aggressive in an outward way . . and men have much more testosterone than women do . . .
As far as the look goes... don't mean to offend but I knnow when what is being offered is more than just appreciation . . there are more than one kind of look.
He was over in the city and went into an adult bookstore, I didn't bother asking why. This is one of those stores that has the booths in the back that play videos, that you can buy tokens for and go in and watch. Apparently, they're also sometimes magnets for gay men wanting to hook up for quick sex. He didn't know that. So as he's making his way around the corner through the dark hallway to an open booth, he's doing all the wrong things. He's looking at the guys he passes, sometimes making eye contact (a huge DON'T if you're not looking for action). There's a whole sort of protocol for going to the booths (and no, I've never gone there so I don't really know how it all works). At any rate, he finds the booth he has a ticket for and goes in, and the door won't lock. He doesn't worry about it, until guys start walking in on him. Leaving your door unlocked is code for "please come in and have sex with me." Funny stuff. It was even funnier that he had no idea what was going on, until we were discussing it days later and I explained everything he'd done wrong.
(edited for clarity. i was PUI - posting under the influence, i should know better by now)
[ 06-13-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
That's a problem, because many homosexuals want to combat the lies of the more conservative mainstream by spreading out new lies. That's counter-productive.
It's simply not true. Sure, there are homosexuals that seek out monogamous relationships, and that's because there are men who seek out monogamous relationships, with women or men.
Men are far more likely to be "wired" for "sex sex sex" than women, far more likely. And even within the male population the "sex sex sex" variety outnumbers by a great deal the "relationship relationship relationship" variety.
Homosexuals are just men who like other men. If you already know how men work then you know how homosexuals work.
And it's a double-edged sword. That "freedom" is something many homosexuals like to use as a good thing about being homosexual, using the openness to reinforce their confidence in the lifestyle, but when it is pointed out by the outside (by us breeders) they will get defensive. Like heterosexual "players" and "partiers".
1000 sexual partners in a lifetime? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yeah, back when I started college three years ago, I was shooting for that, but after the first 500 I got kind of sore and gave it up.
No, but seriously, that's obviously pretty flawed, and I think it just goes to show how fu cked up your average "scientific" study is. I mean, where did the survey occur, who did they ask? If you went to gay club, carefully avoiding anyone who was obviously in a happy long term relationship, and just asked the kids who were tweaked out and wearing nothing but a pair of track pants with their thong sticking out, then yeah, 1000 sounds about right.
But then, is that like a "projection?" A n optimistic estimate of sexual encounters yet to come. Or are we asking people on their deathbed how many they've had. If then, who keeps records like that.
Even if you put a notch on your belt every time you laid a new guy, you'd have to have like a sock drawer full of old useless belts, and what kind of self-respecting slut wears a belt anyway?
So, just for balance, what do the studies say about straight guys?
The higher end heterosexual men that I've seen in the studies (haven't learned so much about heterosexuals) is usually 3-4x less than the higher-end homosexual, around 250-300 in their lifetime.
You have your rock star aberrations, of course, and your Wilt Chamberlains, but they are far rarer than the homosexuals pushing huge numbers.
As a gay man myself, I have had two long-term relationships in my thirty-four years. One was 2-1/2 years, and the other is currently heating up at just about six years. I've also had a few (5...?) two-months-of-hot-sex-type relationships, where you wake up one day and realize that the only reason your with the other person is the sex, and that's not enough to put up with them anymore. Then there's a good fifteen hot weekends. And I would probabaly say another twenty-five one-night stands. There's also a couple what-the-hell's thrown in for...what-the-hell. <BR>
So how many is that? 50-60. <BR>
But, I think there is a difference with men in general. I've had sex with numerous men (obvously), but very often these little trysts are just JO sessions, hndjobs, or quick BJs. Often times these are quick relief sessions, more than sex. <BR>
It sounds a little trashy, but if you had the choice between poopin' one off yourself or having a little help, which would you take? The thing is, many str8 men partake in these activities regularly, but just like myself, don't *really* consider these as having had a partner. It more or less just helping each other out. <BR>
Personally, I'm not one for GloryHoles, but on the rare occaision that I have, I don't really consider that a partner (although I did include them in my count). And I doubt any str8 man that visits or does the same counts them in his list of partners, as well. He, most likely, only counts the women. In fact, if he got a BJ in the back of the car on the way home from a club, I doubt he counts that either. ANyone care to comment? <BR>
I will say that it can be quite easy to have a "partner"...sometimes. I lot of times it's easy to cut through the whole flirting mess at a bar or club, and just get right down to it. Persnally, I have walked up to men, and said, "I'm here to make passes at you..." And it can quickly go from there.
<BR>
Well, I guess I've said enough, for now.
Anyways , why do it bother you that some gay may have 1000 partners in a life (it's one partner each two weeks for 40 years afterall) ?
Live your own way, have one partner in a life, be a virgin or have 1000 partners if you want, doesn't have to copy the "straigth" guy.
It's not a shame to not be married and to not have kids, it will not make you an half human. Many peoples have to accept gay people even gay peoples themself.
[ 06-13-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
[ 06-13-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
Hey, I knew I recognized you from somewhere! I need my track pants back! I'm going to club one this weekend.
powerdoc, i don't think it bothers us that some gay men have a thousand partners in a lifetime. the consensus seems to be that we're bothered because we're not one of them. :cool: