I work as a lecturer in one of the largest colleges in the uk and run a multimedia department. The starting salary for a fully trained specialist lecturer here is 11.5k (gb pounds)
For that I am not allowed to decide how I teach my subject, how I develop my subject, what equipment I use, when I teach my subject (as in timetables), where I teach my subject (as in rooming). I cannot specify computer hardware or software. I am made to spend 65% of my time on paperwork and 35% actaully classroom teaching. During the 65% I'm not teaching the institution finds any lecturer short of hours (of any subject) to baby sit the classes. I'm allocated 1000 bg pounds per annum to service over 100 students. When I ask for an item to be purchased (such as a new printer cable) by the time it has gone through the enormous financial and procurement process (staffed by managers on 40K plus) the students who it was intended for have usually come to the end of their course. Our rooms have crumbling walls, leaking roofs, uneven floors, no temperature control etc yet every manager's office is wall to wall carpeted with the latest equipment. My desks came from a junk skip yet the managers purchased solid oak desks for themselves at around 100 gb pounds each. We run a highly respected design outfit yet the college pays outside companies thousands a year to create 2nd rate promotional material for us depriving students the opportunity to do it and gain some experience. I run web deisgn classes but am not allowed a server. The web design classes were 2 years late in starting up because the college management decided that we should run web design using Microsoft Word - which we argued against. Now in a fit of revenge they are taking web design from our department and giving it to computing and IT as they run microsoft software and the college won't have to shell out for Macs, Dreamweaver, Flash etc.
At the start of each year each student is given a course book which lists one after the other the outcomes they are expected to achieve. For example, one outcome might say:
"print documents".
If a student manages to print anything even by accident then they are allowed to have a credit for it. if a student produces a stunning piece of design work and knows the printing process inside out they get exactly the same credit.
The sole problem with education in the uk is the belief that teaching and learning is secondary to the management of teaching and learning.
College management (and schools and universities) - funded by the taxpayers believe that educational establishments exist for their benefit and to keep them where they are. Teachers are regarded as assets or resources and students are considered an annoyance that gets in the way of serious things like management meetings and policy documents.
Aren't you proud of where your tax dollars go?
The situation will continue forever. Big scandals like Enron and Worldcom prove that the public will accept anything. 100 years ago there would have been a civil war over it.
Think about Enron and Worldcom. Then try to imagine what goes on in educational establishments - with your tax dollars. Worldcom is purity by comparison.
What really gets me about all you Idiots constantly slagging each other off is the fact that the world has much bigger problems then bad US or EU issues...
After all, the difference in the two systems is minimal and compared to places like China or Iran etc. EU and US are on the same wavelength.
Instead of wasting your time taking the piss off each other could you consider pointing some of your eloquent words and energy at the world's most repressive regimes like China, Iran, Burma, Malaysia etc.....
or is it that you don't consider these countries as competitors like you do the US ?
If this is all about Europeans pissed off at American hegemony then that's truly pathetic - the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen and wasting words jumping at it these days when its fighting a war that could mean the survival or death of thousands ( frighteningly maybe even more) of lives.. just seems to stink !.... in my opinion....
If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
. . . and you r doing what about it exactly? . . .
<strong> If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
. . . and you r doing what about it exactly? . . .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, not enough I'm afraid but then I don't waste all my time slagging the US off either... I did do a documentary about tibetan refugees in Dharamsala - India and a Photo essay about the story which was published etc... so I am trying at least....
My point was that I'm fed up with idiotic English and other European twats wasting all their hard earned intelligence on explaining the world and his dog how f***** up the US of A really is, and how the world would be better if bush were to finally come out and confess to being gay or something....
I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
Politicians I'm afraid are genetically inferior creatures (why else do you think the current genome race belongs to companies and governments? Do you really think a government would want you to know that you were being abused by a genetically inferior minority?)who along with their business leaders and the media have a tight grip on existence. No amount of discussion, debate, awareness raising or petition signing will affect them at all. Unfortunately the only way to affect change with these b*stards is war. This is unpalateable to most - so hopelessly numb have we become. Any issue has just become a news story - 24 hours tops.
How can anyone expect justice and equality when most people care more about reality shows, designer clothing et al (all commercially viable).
Centuries of learning to talk has achieved nothing but greater control and exploitation of the masses ie If you have a problem then don't fight, lets talk about it. we won't Do anything and your problem will still remain but hey, at least you had a chance to voice your concerns and that's the main thing.
We need as a species to find a new peaceful way to combat this menace. Talking just doesn't cut it.
[quote] Centuries of learning to talk has achieved nothing but greater control and exploitation of the masses <hr></blockquote>I don't know, civilization is a pretty incredible phenomena these days: we seem to be in a pretty eve=olved sttate of knowledge, we can do amazing amzing things, the amount of people in the "free world" that go on living a pretty decent life is truly mind boggling compared to the percentages say from a mere two hundred years ago, art is subtle and thoughtful (when it isn't just art world trash) literature too is doing well (well it was about 15 years ago) . . and so on.
I sound like an apologist, and in a way I am, we shouldn't disregard what is truly amazing because we have some trite revolutionary agenda.
The thing which pulled my head out of my youthfull revolutionary @ss was when my brother in law said, quite casually, "I don't know its pretty incredible that millions of people can drive on the freeway everyday without crashing all the time"
it was like an epiphany . . . maybe it could be meaningfull to you as well.
<strong> I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
Politicians I'm afraid are genetically inferior creatures (why else do you think the current genome race belongs to companies and governments? Do you really think a government would want you to know that you were being abused by a genetically inferior minority?)who along with their business leaders and the media have a tight grip on existence. No amount of discussion, debate, awareness raising or petition signing will affect them at all. Unfortunately the only way to affect change with these b*stards is war. This is unpalateable to most - so hopelessly numb have we become. Any issue has just become a news story - 24 hours tops.
Centuries of learning to talk has achieved nothing but greater control and exploitation of the masses ie If you have a problem then don't fight, lets talk about it. we won't Do anything and your problem will still remain but hey, at least you had a chance to voice your concerns and that's the main thing.
We need as a species to find a new peaceful way to combat this menace. Talking just doesn't cut it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mate, sounds like you need a serious brake from UK life i know the feeling ...
I know where you're coming from but I still can't see how does all that gives credence to stupid people claiming that the US is the most evil and stupid country in history.
[quote]Originally posted by spooky:
<strong>
How can anyone expect justice and equality when most people care more about reality shows, designer clothing et al (all commercially viable). </strong><hr></blockquote>
well, like it or not - reality shows and consumer stuff is one major example of justice and equality.... compared with the times when these things (minus the reality shows ) were only available to the privileged few... and compare that to the average worries of the average English worker 80 or 150 years ago i'd say things are looking better now....
I am kind of curious though .. when u say war .. what do u actually mean ? war against who ?
well, like it or not - reality shows and consumer stuff is one major example of justice and equality.... compared with the times when these things (minus the reality shows ) were only available to the privileged few... and compare that to the average worries of the average English worker 80 or 150 years ago i'd say things are looking better now....
I am kind of curious though .. when u say war .. what do u actually mean ? war against who ?
why ?
What menace ?
British workers were downtrodden and abused most shamefully 150 years ago bu the landed gentry, the aristocracy and the upper classes. Today we have equivalents to the land barons of old except we call them managers, directors etc. As was the case back then, the government cares little for the people and chooses to ride rough shod over them. The government here wants to privatise education thru the backdoor. The vast majority of the education profession does not want this and knows it would be a disaster. yet the education secretary berates them and tells them she'll go ahead with "reforms" anyway. over 90% of police officers in the uk voted against so called reforms to their service. yet the home secretary claims he is disappointed but will press ahead with his "reforms" anyway. Tony Blair wants to privatise public services - something the public srvices strongly do not want. yet he calls them obstructive and vows to go ahead anyway. The government of the day simply overules the wishes of the people who put them in office.
Here in the uk there is much fuss over whether or not to join the Euro. (i'm in favour of closer european ties by the way - closer global ties for that matter personally I would be happy if all nations disappeared and we simply considered ourselves to be human or earthlings). The government says it will decide on whether or not to join on the basis of economic tests ie whether it would be good for business. Not one mention of whether it would be good for people - not one mention of the human angle.
Where I work a few years ago, the college was close to collapse because of the dealings of some senior managers resulting in the loss of millions of pounds. They all walked off with big pay offs, the remainder of them moved sideways or got promoted. the lecturers (who had no part in this at all) were crucified. We are still living the effects of this today. one third of the part time workforce was removed immediately. Others had their pay cut by 25% overnight. Yet senior managers gave themselves a pay rise.
the local paper was vociferous in its criticism of the college in its editorial - until the editor was appointed head of the baord of governors. Then strangely, silence from the paper.
All this was "investigated" by the authourities - guess what happened?
Every year I see kids from less well off backgrounds who question what their society is about and why it doesn't make any sense. Their idols are soccer stars. why? because in soccer the best players (ie those that produce the product) get paid more than the manager.
d'oh, sorry i forgot your not! instead your crying your eyes wiping your snotty noses and moaning on about clear facts trying to find loop holes - you should try being accountants i think thats all the qualifications you need over in the 'land of the greed'
vargus you sound quite familiar? what is your occupation - if you are who i think you are - arn't you a doctor of somesorts or are my wires crossed <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
vargus you sound quite familiar? what is your occupation - if you are who i think you are - arn't you a doctor of somesorts or are my wires crossed <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think your wires were ever uncrossed, if you don't mind me saying.
Well, as a teacher I find the attitudes here entertaining in the least. I won't get into the first poster's anti-Americanism, expept to say the SOME of his statistics are "statistically insignificant", but not all.
On education, G4 Dude writes:
[quote]Yes, we do have tons op prisoners, which is not something to be proud of. This is due to poor education. All the time we hear about school districts cutting programs and budgets. The real problems with our schools is we have a fear of classes with more than 20 people in them. This means we hire unnecessary teachers which wastes the money. Also, step into a second grade class room and you will see a library of up to 100 videos of Telletubbies, Barney, etc. Also, teachers get ridiculous retirement packages. I know a teacher that retired at age 50 and now makes 115% of his working salary. That's what's wrong with our education and that is one of the main reasons we have so many prisoners. BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. <hr></blockquote>
This is quite misinformed. I seriously doubt you are right about the pension system. PA has one of the best systems in the nation. We pay 7.5% of our salary every year to our system, and after 35 years we get about 87% of our salary with, I think, $150.00 per month for medical benefits. Keep in mind that a decent medical plan in PA for TWO PEOPLE only (no kids) costs about $500/month. Add kids and you are up to almost $800/month. I currently make less than $40K a year in suburban Philadelphia. I seriously think you should check those facts. Actually, I might do it for you.
Class sizes beyond 20 seriously impacts the quality of education. That is proven. As for the Barney videos, I don't think that is the case everywhere. I have never seen one at any elementary school I've been in.
I would also be interested in knowing what teacher positions you find "unnessecary". Gym? Music? As a teacher in a public school system, I can tell you the problem is rarely "too many teachers". I will agree that the problem is often "too many administrators".
You also need to understand a bit about being a public school teacher. You may, perhaps, be in a unique situation. Most places in this country pay teachers next to nothing. I have a friend at my current job who used to work in Colorado. She started at $27,000 with a master's degree. That is insane.
We treat teachers as adminsitrative assistants, both with pay and stature. I understand we are in a public profession. But, it is no wonder there is a massive teacher shortage nationwide, when the average starting teacher makes $27,989 per year.
By contrast the average college graduate makes considerbaly more. Someone I know quite well went to school for the same amount of time I did, only he is a computer engineer. He started at $62,000 a year with 100% medical and tuition reimbursement. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating a fact. Go look up the numbers, they are available anywhere.
And for once, I agree with pfllam: Education is not just about preparing for a career, especially not K-12.
Comments
For that I am not allowed to decide how I teach my subject, how I develop my subject, what equipment I use, when I teach my subject (as in timetables), where I teach my subject (as in rooming). I cannot specify computer hardware or software. I am made to spend 65% of my time on paperwork and 35% actaully classroom teaching. During the 65% I'm not teaching the institution finds any lecturer short of hours (of any subject) to baby sit the classes. I'm allocated 1000 bg pounds per annum to service over 100 students. When I ask for an item to be purchased (such as a new printer cable) by the time it has gone through the enormous financial and procurement process (staffed by managers on 40K plus) the students who it was intended for have usually come to the end of their course. Our rooms have crumbling walls, leaking roofs, uneven floors, no temperature control etc yet every manager's office is wall to wall carpeted with the latest equipment. My desks came from a junk skip yet the managers purchased solid oak desks for themselves at around 100 gb pounds each. We run a highly respected design outfit yet the college pays outside companies thousands a year to create 2nd rate promotional material for us depriving students the opportunity to do it and gain some experience. I run web deisgn classes but am not allowed a server. The web design classes were 2 years late in starting up because the college management decided that we should run web design using Microsoft Word - which we argued against. Now in a fit of revenge they are taking web design from our department and giving it to computing and IT as they run microsoft software and the college won't have to shell out for Macs, Dreamweaver, Flash etc.
At the start of each year each student is given a course book which lists one after the other the outcomes they are expected to achieve. For example, one outcome might say:
"print documents".
If a student manages to print anything even by accident then they are allowed to have a credit for it. if a student produces a stunning piece of design work and knows the printing process inside out they get exactly the same credit.
The sole problem with education in the uk is the belief that teaching and learning is secondary to the management of teaching and learning.
College management (and schools and universities) - funded by the taxpayers believe that educational establishments exist for their benefit and to keep them where they are. Teachers are regarded as assets or resources and students are considered an annoyance that gets in the way of serious things like management meetings and policy documents.
Aren't you proud of where your tax dollars go?
The situation will continue forever. Big scandals like Enron and Worldcom prove that the public will accept anything. 100 years ago there would have been a civil war over it.
Think about Enron and Worldcom. Then try to imagine what goes on in educational establishments - with your tax dollars. Worldcom is purity by comparison.
Me? I'm desperate to find a job abroad.
[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: spooky ]</p>
After all, the difference in the two systems is minimal and compared to places like China or Iran etc. EU and US are on the same wavelength.
Instead of wasting your time taking the piss off each other could you consider pointing some of your eloquent words and energy at the world's most repressive regimes like China, Iran, Burma, Malaysia etc.....
or is it that you don't consider these countries as competitors like you do the US ?
If this is all about Europeans pissed off at American hegemony then that's truly pathetic - the US is the most malevolent 'Empire' the world has ever seen and wasting words jumping at it these days when its fighting a war that could mean the survival or death of thousands ( frighteningly maybe even more) of lives.. just seems to stink !.... in my opinion....
If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
. . . and you r doing what about it exactly? . . .
<strong> If you care so much about justice and reason and human rights why don't you give a tos about the repression of the Tibetan people ? or the severe oppression and violence taking place in Africa or so many places in Asia ?
. . . and you r doing what about it exactly? . . .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, not enough I'm afraid but then I don't waste all my time slagging the US off either... I did do a documentary about tibetan refugees in Dharamsala - India and a Photo essay about the story which was published etc... so I am trying at least....
My point was that I'm fed up with idiotic English and other European twats wasting all their hard earned intelligence on explaining the world and his dog how f***** up the US of A really is, and how the world would be better if bush were to finally come out and confess to being gay or something....
I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
Politicians I'm afraid are genetically inferior creatures (why else do you think the current genome race belongs to companies and governments? Do you really think a government would want you to know that you were being abused by a genetically inferior minority?)who along with their business leaders and the media have a tight grip on existence. No amount of discussion, debate, awareness raising or petition signing will affect them at all. Unfortunately the only way to affect change with these b*stards is war. This is unpalateable to most - so hopelessly numb have we become. Any issue has just become a news story - 24 hours tops.
How can anyone expect justice and equality when most people care more about reality shows, designer clothing et al (all commercially viable).
Centuries of learning to talk has achieved nothing but greater control and exploitation of the masses ie If you have a problem then don't fight, lets talk about it. we won't Do anything and your problem will still remain but hey, at least you had a chance to voice your concerns and that's the main thing.
We need as a species to find a new peaceful way to combat this menace. Talking just doesn't cut it.
I sound like an apologist, and in a way I am, we shouldn't disregard what is truly amazing because we have some trite revolutionary agenda.
The thing which pulled my head out of my youthfull revolutionary @ss was when my brother in law said, quite casually, "I don't know its pretty incredible that millions of people can drive on the freeway everyday without crashing all the time"
it was like an epiphany . . . maybe it could be meaningfull to you as well.
<strong> I find it pathetic that such 'caring people' can't find anything better to aim their hatred and political awareness towards other then slagging the US when there are such serious issues out there...
Politicians I'm afraid are genetically inferior creatures (why else do you think the current genome race belongs to companies and governments? Do you really think a government would want you to know that you were being abused by a genetically inferior minority?)who along with their business leaders and the media have a tight grip on existence. No amount of discussion, debate, awareness raising or petition signing will affect them at all. Unfortunately the only way to affect change with these b*stards is war. This is unpalateable to most - so hopelessly numb have we become. Any issue has just become a news story - 24 hours tops.
Centuries of learning to talk has achieved nothing but greater control and exploitation of the masses ie If you have a problem then don't fight, lets talk about it. we won't Do anything and your problem will still remain but hey, at least you had a chance to voice your concerns and that's the main thing.
We need as a species to find a new peaceful way to combat this menace. Talking just doesn't cut it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mate, sounds like you need a serious brake from UK life
I know where you're coming from but I still can't see how does all that gives credence to stupid people claiming that the US is the most evil and stupid country in history.
[quote]Originally posted by spooky:
<strong>
How can anyone expect justice and equality when most people care more about reality shows, designer clothing et al (all commercially viable). </strong><hr></blockquote>
well, like it or not - reality shows and consumer stuff is one major example of justice and equality.... compared with the times when these things (minus the reality shows
I am kind of curious though .. when u say war .. what do u actually mean ? war against who ?
why ?
What menace ?
I am kind of curious though .. when u say war .. what do u actually mean ? war against who ?
why ?
What menace ?
British workers were downtrodden and abused most shamefully 150 years ago bu the landed gentry, the aristocracy and the upper classes. Today we have equivalents to the land barons of old except we call them managers, directors etc. As was the case back then, the government cares little for the people and chooses to ride rough shod over them. The government here wants to privatise education thru the backdoor. The vast majority of the education profession does not want this and knows it would be a disaster. yet the education secretary berates them and tells them she'll go ahead with "reforms" anyway. over 90% of police officers in the uk voted against so called reforms to their service. yet the home secretary claims he is disappointed but will press ahead with his "reforms" anyway. Tony Blair wants to privatise public services - something the public srvices strongly do not want. yet he calls them obstructive and vows to go ahead anyway. The government of the day simply overules the wishes of the people who put them in office.
Here in the uk there is much fuss over whether or not to join the Euro. (i'm in favour of closer european ties by the way - closer global ties for that matter personally I would be happy if all nations disappeared and we simply considered ourselves to be human or earthlings). The government says it will decide on whether or not to join on the basis of economic tests ie whether it would be good for business. Not one mention of whether it would be good for people - not one mention of the human angle.
Where I work a few years ago, the college was close to collapse because of the dealings of some senior managers resulting in the loss of millions of pounds. They all walked off with big pay offs, the remainder of them moved sideways or got promoted. the lecturers (who had no part in this at all) were crucified. We are still living the effects of this today. one third of the part time workforce was removed immediately. Others had their pay cut by 25% overnight. Yet senior managers gave themselves a pay rise.
the local paper was vociferous in its criticism of the college in its editorial - until the editor was appointed head of the baord of governors. Then strangely, silence from the paper.
All this was "investigated" by the authourities - guess what happened?
Every year I see kids from less well off backgrounds who question what their society is about and why it doesn't make any sense. Their idols are soccer stars. why? because in soccer the best players (ie those that produce the product) get paid more than the manager.
....... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
d'oh, sorry i forgot your not! instead your crying your eyes wiping your snotty noses and moaning on about clear facts trying to find loop holes - you should try being accountants i think thats all the qualifications you need over in the 'land of the greed'
<strong>Hi! You're very welcome to come and visit first of all if you've got a passport. Please come and teach us:
[ 06-27-2002: Message QUOTE]edited by: Harald ]</strong>[/
In the end what matters is not whose economy is better but that we stand together against those who would take it away from us.
vargus you sound quite familiar? what is your occupation - if you are who i think you are - arn't you a doctor of somesorts or are my wires crossed <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong>hmmm
vargus you sound quite familiar? what is your occupation - if you are who i think you are - arn't you a doctor of somesorts or are my wires crossed <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think your wires were ever uncrossed, if you don't mind me saying.
<strong>hmmmm. What a country....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Indeed.
and what a great combination of three words:
SLAG OFF YOORP
... by the way,
what's it mean?
.
.
.
United States of America: 9,837,406
Germany: 1,872,992
United Kingdom: 1,414,557
France: 1,294,246
Italy: 1,073,960
Spain: 558,558
Switzerland: 239,764
Sweden: 227,319
Belgium: 226,648
On education, G4 Dude writes:
[quote]Yes, we do have tons op prisoners, which is not something to be proud of. This is due to poor education. All the time we hear about school districts cutting programs and budgets. The real problems with our schools is we have a fear of classes with more than 20 people in them. This means we hire unnecessary teachers which wastes the money. Also, step into a second grade class room and you will see a library of up to 100 videos of Telletubbies, Barney, etc. Also, teachers get ridiculous retirement packages. I know a teacher that retired at age 50 and now makes 115% of his working salary. That's what's wrong with our education and that is one of the main reasons we have so many prisoners. BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. <hr></blockquote>
This is quite misinformed. I seriously doubt you are right about the pension system. PA has one of the best systems in the nation. We pay 7.5% of our salary every year to our system, and after 35 years we get about 87% of our salary with, I think, $150.00 per month for medical benefits. Keep in mind that a decent medical plan in PA for TWO PEOPLE only (no kids) costs about $500/month. Add kids and you are up to almost $800/month. I currently make less than $40K a year in suburban Philadelphia. I seriously think you should check those facts. Actually, I might do it for you.
Class sizes beyond 20 seriously impacts the quality of education. That is proven. As for the Barney videos, I don't think that is the case everywhere. I have never seen one at any elementary school I've been in.
I would also be interested in knowing what teacher positions you find "unnessecary". Gym? Music? As a teacher in a public school system, I can tell you the problem is rarely "too many teachers". I will agree that the problem is often "too many administrators".
You also need to understand a bit about being a public school teacher. You may, perhaps, be in a unique situation. Most places in this country pay teachers next to nothing. I have a friend at my current job who used to work in Colorado. She started at $27,000 with a master's degree. That is insane.
We treat teachers as adminsitrative assistants, both with pay and stature. I understand we are in a public profession. But, it is no wonder there is a massive teacher shortage nationwide, when the average starting teacher makes $27,989 per year.
<a href="http://www.aft.org/press/2001/051601.html"; target="_blank">Link</a> (I'm no fan of the NEA and AFT but this number is available anywhere)
By contrast the average college graduate makes considerbaly more. Someone I know quite well went to school for the same amount of time I did, only he is a computer engineer. He started at $62,000 a year with 100% medical and tuition reimbursement. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating a fact. Go look up the numbers, they are available anywhere.
And for once, I agree with pfllam: Education is not just about preparing for a career, especially not K-12.
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
"Slag off" means "to diss."
"Yoorp" ... cross-reference "Dubya."
By the way SDW, I am not anti-American.
and withth eword "who" before them it even sounds better.
"who slag off yoorp"
its great . . . . if I were younger and in a rock band again, I would name it 'Slag Off Yoorp'