and it makes me wonder why people click "OK" to begin with. I mean seriously. I've seen macdefender ads all over. It's a classic scam, why would anyone think it is in fact ok?
Scam exists because a tiny percentage buy it, and another tiny percentage is criminal.
"virus attack" - what happens when Windows users download malware
"not even a problem, just a stupidity filter" - when the same thing happens on Mac
No, a virus attack is when you browse the web on a Windows PC and your machine becomes unusable because all this crap has installed itself and taken over your computer. The only workaround is installing and maintaining AV software, which takes a hit on performance and RAM.
Those kinds of issues are simply not there on Macs. No matter how much you try to suggest that some fake scam app is viral or dangerous or malicious (all it does is try to make you pay for it) the reality is that this thing does not damage your Mac and is trivial to remove.
Many PC users give up and buy a new machine after getting loaded down with adware/spyware and viruses, which are a plague on Windows. Trying to suggest Macs and Windows PCs are in the same boat is simply lying.
It's certainly possible that somebody could invest the efforts to target 10% of the market with virulent, damaging attacks, but that hasn't happened yet and there's not really a business model supporting that rather than targeting the low hanging fruit of the 90% installed base of Windows, most of which is unpatched and already has functional exploits written for it. And Apple can shut down attacks pretty rapidly, making all the effort of targeting the Mac that much less rewarding.
Comparing the virus situation on Windows with Macs is like comparing a meth-injecting homeless prostitute with open skin wounds to a newborn baby being raised by a Stepford housewife, and suggesting that the baby is in the same grave danger of getting lethal health problems because someday it will grow up perhaps it will begin smoking. Absolute nuttery.
Ironically, it's the myth of immunity that gives so many Mac users the confidence to download anything they come across on the web - "Hey, I keep hearing that Mac has no viruses, so what could go wrong?"
This isn't classified as a virus.
Nothing will go wrong if you don't agree to install this malware.
Would anyone download an unknown, untested, un-vouched-for "defender" or "guard" or anything else for that matter, but especially something that claims to be a defender, guard, etc....?
There are tons of numpties out there. They google "free Mac antivirus" and implicitly trust whatever google search throws up. They probably also click on banner ads proclaiming them a winner for being the millionth person to visit a site. Before using any web service for the first time I, at the very least, google "servicename + scam".
That's not to say it's not Apple's responsibilty. I hope this is another area they take the lead, unlike Microsoft, which allowed an entire industry of antivirus software companies to write the viruses that scared people into paying for their software. The curated app store is a good first step.
But ultimately people need to think of the Internet as the wild west, not a shopping mall.
... and Apple's decision is that the setup process creates a user that is an admin account.
Apple can make the setup process do anything they want but they have chosen the most dangerous option.
I want Apple to be out there showing how good IT is done, but they are not doing it.
They should be proactive, not reactive. There is a lot they can do to reduce these problems.
I agree with this. I think Apple has this in mind too because I think I read it somewhere as a feature of Lion. I use a admin account on my single user Mac setup. I am safe. I'm paranoid about security. I use 1Password's keychain and not Apples. It locks itself by default. You can keep it open for a period of time, if you want too. I use Little Snitch too. However 1PWD is browser wide. Apple's keychain can also be locked system wide but its not elegant. I use other security measures like sand-boxing all downloads to the DL folder where ClamXav monitors this folder on the fly. I think you'll see a much better solution for this in Lion, where no one runs in admin mode. There is really no need to run in admin mode. That said, whatever Apple does won't protect those gullible people. They will give their password and the kitchen sink too.
No, a virus attack is when you browse the web on a Windows PC and your machine becomes unusable because all this crap has installed itself and taken over your computer. The only workaround is installing and maintaining AV software, which takes a hit on performance and RAM.
Wrong on all accounts
1. A virus doesn't come from any and every web browsing on a PC. In fact if you use any browser EXCEPT for Internet explorer, your pretty much safe.
2. A virus doesn't always render a PC useless. Quite the opposite. Many times a PC will continue to function as it always has with the only programs having trouble are programs capable of dealing with the virus in some way. Keyloggers are famous for this.
3. AV software is NOT the ONLY workaround if you think this then you sir are incredibly naive. Most of these viruses can be found via program file search or even re-booting under safe mode and locating the file there to which one can promptly delete. Is it easy? Most of the time yes. Other times it requires extensive work but EVERY virus on windows can do 2 things:
Bypass AV software and be removed without the former.
Anything that downloads itself gets trashed immediately.
Obey the previous sentence and you'll never have any trouble.
Unless YOU as a user click a download button on a website causing a related file to download, any files in your designated downloads folder should be immediately destroyed.
[QUOTE=camroidv27;1869857]Because users trust their Apple products. They have been told that no matter what, there is no malware written for their computers. So, clicking "Okay" can't harm them, right? Because that's what Apple said.
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
While Windows users are susceptible to phishing attacks such as this, they have also been historically susceptible to a legion of viruses and other malware that do not require the user to 1) allow the installation of an unknown program and 2) enter an admin password.
When this type of nonsense happens to Windows users...many Apple people I know (I use both OS X and Windows computers) use this as a reason to switch from PC to Mac.
And, if it were to happen to a Mac, what are you gonna do? Switch back to PCs?
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
Didn't they say in the ads that there are no viruses or spyware for macs? I distinctly heard that.
True a Trojan isn't a computer virus by definition, so I'll give you that one. But, when you are advertising to the general public, most don't know the difference between a Virus, Worm, or Trojan, or Spyware, or Malware, or any of the other kinds I didn't list. Its that general public who have been downloading the Mac Defender in the first place, not people who visit sites like this.
[EDIT] Just saw the post above with the web page. Nice find. Clearly states, its not 100%. Does it say that Macs are Secure... Yes. Are they? Not as much as the general public perceives it to be. Hence, the problem. Apple says its secure, so people trust it.
Because users trust their Apple products. They have been told that no matter what, there is no malware written for their computers. So, clicking "Okay" can't harm them, right? Because that's what Apple said.
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
They come really close to that statement in the very first paragraph here:
I've always hated and never understood why the option existed in Safari to automatically 'Open "Safe" files after downloading'. I don't think Safari really knows what's SAFE and what's not. Bad Apple!
Comments
---
The article left out one critical piece of info...the no password version only works if you are logged in as an admin account.
---
... and Apple's decision is that the setup process creates a user that is an admin account.
Apple can make the setup process do anything they want but they have chosen the most dangerous option.
I want Apple to be out there showing how good IT is done, but they are not doing it.
They should be proactive, not reactive. There is a lot they can do to reduce these problems.
and it makes me wonder why people click "OK" to begin with. I mean seriously. I've seen macdefender ads all over. It's a classic scam, why would anyone think it is in fact ok?
Scam exists because a tiny percentage buy it, and another tiny percentage is criminal.
"virus attack" - what happens when Windows users download malware
"not even a problem, just a stupidity filter" - when the same thing happens on Mac
No, a virus attack is when you browse the web on a Windows PC and your machine becomes unusable because all this crap has installed itself and taken over your computer. The only workaround is installing and maintaining AV software, which takes a hit on performance and RAM.
Those kinds of issues are simply not there on Macs. No matter how much you try to suggest that some fake scam app is viral or dangerous or malicious (all it does is try to make you pay for it) the reality is that this thing does not damage your Mac and is trivial to remove.
Many PC users give up and buy a new machine after getting loaded down with adware/spyware and viruses, which are a plague on Windows. Trying to suggest Macs and Windows PCs are in the same boat is simply lying.
It's certainly possible that somebody could invest the efforts to target 10% of the market with virulent, damaging attacks, but that hasn't happened yet and there's not really a business model supporting that rather than targeting the low hanging fruit of the 90% installed base of Windows, most of which is unpatched and already has functional exploits written for it. And Apple can shut down attacks pretty rapidly, making all the effort of targeting the Mac that much less rewarding.
Comparing the virus situation on Windows with Macs is like comparing a meth-injecting homeless prostitute with open skin wounds to a newborn baby being raised by a Stepford housewife, and suggesting that the baby is in the same grave danger of getting lethal health problems because someday it will grow up perhaps it will begin smoking. Absolute nuttery.
Great post...and bang goes Apple's marketing...
Win PC user installs trojan = Win PC bad
OSX user installs trojan = User bad
????
AppleInsider isn't calling the user bad. The malware authors = bad.
Ironically, it's the myth of immunity that gives so many Mac users the confidence to download anything they come across on the web - "Hey, I keep hearing that Mac has no viruses, so what could go wrong?"
This isn't classified as a virus.
Nothing will go wrong if you don't agree to install this malware.
Would anyone download an unknown, untested, un-vouched-for "defender" or "guard" or anything else for that matter, but especially something that claims to be a defender, guard, etc....?
There are tons of numpties out there. They google "free Mac antivirus" and implicitly trust whatever google search throws up. They probably also click on banner ads proclaiming them a winner for being the millionth person to visit a site. Before using any web service for the first time I, at the very least, google "servicename + scam".
That's not to say it's not Apple's responsibilty. I hope this is another area they take the lead, unlike Microsoft, which allowed an entire industry of antivirus software companies to write the viruses that scared people into paying for their software. The curated app store is a good first step.
But ultimately people need to think of the Internet as the wild west, not a shopping mall.
Great post...and bang goes Apple's marketing...
Win PC user installs trojan = Win PC bad
OSX user installs trojan = User bad
????
Horrible post
Apple NEVER said anything about trojan horses.
... and Apple's decision is that the setup process creates a user that is an admin account.
Apple can make the setup process do anything they want but they have chosen the most dangerous option.
I want Apple to be out there showing how good IT is done, but they are not doing it.
They should be proactive, not reactive. There is a lot they can do to reduce these problems.
I agree with this. I think Apple has this in mind too because I think I read it somewhere as a feature of Lion. I use a admin account on my single user Mac setup. I am safe. I'm paranoid about security. I use 1Password's keychain and not Apples. It locks itself by default. You can keep it open for a period of time, if you want too. I use Little Snitch too. However 1PWD is browser wide. Apple's keychain can also be locked system wide but its not elegant. I use other security measures like sand-boxing all downloads to the DL folder where ClamXav monitors this folder on the fly. I think you'll see a much better solution for this in Lion, where no one runs in admin mode. There is really no need to run in admin mode. That said, whatever Apple does won't protect those gullible people. They will give their password and the kitchen sink too.
No, a virus attack is when you browse the web on a Windows PC and your machine becomes unusable because all this crap has installed itself and taken over your computer. The only workaround is installing and maintaining AV software, which takes a hit on performance and RAM.
Wrong on all accounts
1. A virus doesn't come from any and every web browsing on a PC. In fact if you use any browser EXCEPT for Internet explorer, your pretty much safe.
2. A virus doesn't always render a PC useless. Quite the opposite. Many times a PC will continue to function as it always has with the only programs having trouble are programs capable of dealing with the virus in some way. Keyloggers are famous for this.
3. AV software is NOT the ONLY workaround if you think this then you sir are incredibly naive. Most of these viruses can be found via program file search or even re-booting under safe mode and locating the file there to which one can promptly delete. Is it easy? Most of the time yes. Other times it requires extensive work but EVERY virus on windows can do 2 things:
Bypass AV software and be removed without the former.
Obey the previous sentence and you'll never have any trouble.
Unless YOU as a user click a download button on a website causing a related file to download, any files in your designated downloads folder should be immediately destroyed.
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
Great post...and bang goes Apple's marketing...
Win PC user installs trojan = Win PC bad
OSX user installs trojan = User bad
????
While Windows users are susceptible to phishing attacks such as this, they have also been historically susceptible to a legion of viruses and other malware that do not require the user to 1) allow the installation of an unknown program and 2) enter an admin password.
When this type of nonsense happens to Windows users...many Apple people I know (I use both OS X and Windows computers) use this as a reason to switch from PC to Mac.
And, if it were to happen to a Mac, what are you gonna do? Switch back to PCs?
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
No. Because Apple expressly states otherwise.
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
Didn't they say in the ads that there are no viruses or spyware for macs? I distinctly heard that.
True a Trojan isn't a computer virus by definition, so I'll give you that one. But, when you are advertising to the general public, most don't know the difference between a Virus, Worm, or Trojan, or Spyware, or Malware, or any of the other kinds I didn't list. Its that general public who have been downloading the Mac Defender in the first place, not people who visit sites like this.
[EDIT] Just saw the post above with the web page. Nice find. Clearly states, its not 100%. Does it say that Macs are Secure... Yes. Are they? Not as much as the general public perceives it to be. Hence, the problem. Apple says its secure, so people trust it.
Because users trust their Apple products. They have been told that no matter what, there is no malware written for their computers. So, clicking "Okay" can't harm them, right? Because that's what Apple said.
Can you point us to any examples of Apple saying this?
They come really close to that statement in the very first paragraph here:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/security/
Great post...and bang goes Apple's marketing...
Win PC user installs trojan = Win PC bad
Let me fix that for you:
- Win PC user installs trojan = Win PC User error
- Win PC user does nothing much, Win PC snarfs up viruses and other
random malware just by being powered on = Win PC bad
[/QUOTE]OSX user installs trojan = User error
????[/QUOTE]
No charge for the upgrade/repair. You're welcome.
I've always hated and never understood why the option existed in Safari to automatically 'Open "Safe" files after downloading'. I don't think Safari really knows what's SAFE and what's not. Bad Apple!
So turn it off.
It's not rocket science.