Inflation as it relates to the dollar's fall in value thanks to the Fed printing like crazy and A CURRENCY NO LONGER BEING BACKED BY GOLD... our dollar is devalued.
which currencies use the GOLD STANDARD still?
if u can find any (major currencies) plesae tell me
The Effective Corporate Tax Rate is the lowest in the world, here in the States. If you can't seem to hire more staff than either you choose not to or you have incompetent Accounting working for you, or you don't own a business and should keep your mouth quiet and research more about how pathetic it is that the US eroded it's own base to allow off-shoring of trillions for short-term profits.
Here is the real kicker: China has to raise its own rates sooner rather than later. The same with Brasil and South America. The offshore attitude to every where but the US is coming full circle.
The biggest consumption base in the globe is the US. The best action the Congress could take would be to draft law that overturns the mid-1930's Supreme Court ruling that Corporations are due the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances and with none of the responsibilities inherent in doing so. Lobbying will then be illegal and real competition can begin. You want effective change and competition, you'll have to realize that yes, the second wave of Manufacturing will come, but on a global scale. The second wave of the industrial revolution will happen and the US will be on the forefront, once again.
That will require manufacturing, but it will not be the same. Without the Government R&D Grants into Biotech, Nanoscience, Advanced Materials, Smart Grids, etc., the corporations wouldn't know their head from their rear end.
The Public/Private partnerships of major US Universities with LLCs started by these same universities is what scares the hell out of the Biotech industries--they don't have the IP owned by these Universities who finally woke up and decided to leverage what they educate and research.
BioMass energy is beginning it's clinical Trials at WSU/PNNL/ and the Department of Energy where any biomass is used to generate gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. It was just announced and they expect distribution and refinement ready for world-wide use by 2013. You wanna see how fast the US Oil Industry is going to cry foul when that happens?
It's a Public/Private partnership. The pure private approach has advanced the world on a time frame they decide leaving Science waiting decades for research already verified to see the light of day.
The only industry with this exception has been the IT Industry, but then again the IT Industry exists purely because of Government R&D.
Keep writing about what you surely know little about. History has a way of exposing ignorance and you seem to be swimming in it.
Not thinking that Apple would want to buy companies that are losing the battle right now. Every day the market share erodes, no reason to own them. If the concern is that market share would move to Android, they I would be helping RIM as much as possible while continuing to penetrate the enterprise market.
I try to stay away from these pinhead "American" threads, but it has to be at least noted that what you are pushing here is pure bullshit ideology.
Facts are facts.
The rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer.
That's how capitalism works.
Your other comments about the rich "creating wealth" have also been conclusively disproven many many times. It's basic 'trickle-down' economics. It has never been the case that it works and it never will work.
You can spout this right-wing ideological crap all day long but it won't magically become true at any time.
that doesnt mean less jobs, it means less money for those jobs - as the top one percent keep grabbing a larger peice of the pie there is less to split so a factory job that paid $10/hr in 1980 pays like 12 today when inflation adjusted it should pay closer to 17
Why does manufacturing output as a percentage of GDP matter?
At first, I was going to look for raw dollar figures. But then big countries could look like they have a lot of manufacturing, even if very little of their economy is based on it.
The point is that highly developed countries have a lot of maufacturing. Like Gemany and Japan.
that doesnt mean less jobs, it means less money for those jobs - as the top one percent keep grabbing a larger peice of the pie there is less to split so a factory job that paid $10/hr in 1980 pays like 12 today when inflation adjusted it should pay closer to 17
I have read this site for a long time (amongst many others) but this is the first time I have felt like signing up to say anything. I am baffled by many of the posts on this thread but I learnt some time ago browsing here that many have inflexible views, refuse to keep an open mind and are really quite aggressive with those who do not share their viewpoints.
To quote Robert Quillen ?Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.?
Thus I will stick to a few thoughts that popped into my head instead.
1) ARM does have other benefits beyond those mentioned. Unlikely Apple would buy ARM but they are ramping up their development of mobile graphics & SoCs for Internet connected televisions (and other devices).
ARM are also based in Cambridge, England and have a strong talent pool and ties with the University. They are in the primary position for talent coming out of the University of Cambridge and the very latest in computer science research.
2) It is possible to start from scratch in a country.
As you will all know Foxconn plan to do exactly that in Brazil, lack of manufacturing infrastructure or expertise is not the reason they choose not to manufacture in the US. That is down primarily to wages. (I hope the BBC link works in your country of residence, apologies if not).
3) Wages are rising quite fast in China, pre-suicides the reported rate for a Foxconn worker was 900 RMB and is now 2000 RMB ($310 a month). You will appreciate that is quite the rise. Indeed the average rise in the minimum wage levels across China in 2010 was 22.5%.
With inflation at 5.5% and food inflation at 11.7% in China this pressure will only accelerate further in the next year or two.
In addition to this to combat food inflation (and under pressure from the US) China is relaxing its hold of the value of the Yuan. This year alone it has gained about 10% on the dollar (last time I checked, may not be current) and is said to be undervalued by at least 40%. This would make the current value of Foxconn wages $434 a month. Considering the current low interest rates in the developed world driving investment to China the undervaluation estimate on the Yuan may be conservative.
Recently in the Chinese apparel making factories there has already been a shortage of workers and when the domestic market catches light in China (and it will) this problem could well send wages rocketing as factories struggle to meet demand.
This over a period of time will make manufacturing in America more appealing but initially will drive factories to Latin America, India and then the last source of cheap labour Africa. People in Nigeria for example earn about $330 Per year.
So in short low tech assembly will probably shift around the world a bit until China & India become huge consumers. At that point in time the US could see a resurgence in this area or we could see rapid development of further automation.
So despite many many people being out of work, there are potentially jobs for some of them but no one has the right skills set. How much growth is this stalling in these businesses?, how many other low skill jobs would that growth have created?.
The US (and UK for that matter) has under invested in education and the future of its economy. It has workers with low skills or the wrong ones. The economy has moved to hi tech and the education system has not caught up. Despite a growing debt unless there is significant investment and realignment to upskill then other countries will continue to catch up.
People who are better educated have better health, commit less crimes, are less of a burden on the state and they create jobs. Short term investment pain for long term gain but unfortunately most Governments do not think further than making sure they are voted in at the next election. Why go for long term when they won't be in office to reap the glory, so they go for short term populist wins instead.
Anyhow less of my ramble! Enjoy your weekend.
Great thoughts and totally agree.
I wish we would cut the military budget by at at least a third and put it all into education...
Do you think every single Android, Motorola etc American user base would dump their phones and buy iPhone just because it is made in the USA? I don't think so. That ship (local manufacturing) has sailed decades ago when capitalism rises and many third world countries were suppresses by IMF, world bank etc. Get a grip!
At some point, someone needs to be a leader. Steve Jobs is very well liked around the world and could be that person.
I know this is crazy talk and I know it won't happen, but think about how great it would be if it did.
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
Last I heard, the US no longer manufactures a damn thing!
You heard wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L
Last I checked, the US manufactures more than any other country on the face of the earth.
That's correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
They are wrong and confused. They are lamenting the fact that certain products are not manufactured in the US.
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
If you really want more manufacturing in the US, then lobby for more employment deregulation, including any special legal privileges granted to unions.
But, in the end, this is the dynamic that happens. There are a wide array of jobs in the US that don't fall into the categories of "flipping burgers" (which are entry level jobs for teenagers) and high-tech doctorate jobs in hi-tech and bio-tech. Most of the people I work with are all pretty middle class. We all earn middle class wage and live in middle class homes. None of us manufacture anything. There are also tons of people working in manufacturing in the US, they are just manufacturing much higher value things than the stuff we outsource to places like China and Malaysia.
What we need is for the government to get out of the way of business and the economy will grow and create tons of jobs. But most of these will not be the jobs from yesteryear...and that's probably going to be okay.
Instead of repeating the standard (disproved) Republican answer for everything, please just post a link to it. That would waste a lot less bandwidth.
Comments
Why does manufacturing output as a percentage of GDP matter?
Inflation as it relates to the dollar's fall in value thanks to the Fed printing like crazy and A CURRENCY NO LONGER BEING BACKED BY GOLD... our dollar is devalued.
which currencies use the GOLD STANDARD still?
if u can find any (major currencies) plesae tell me
They need to find something to do with that cash.
MARS, Bitches!
which currencies use the GOLD STANDARD still?
if u can find any (major currencies) plesae tell me
None. That's part of the problem.
What a bunch of BS.
The Effective Corporate Tax Rate is the lowest in the world, here in the States. If you can't seem to hire more staff than either you choose not to or you have incompetent Accounting working for you, or you don't own a business and should keep your mouth quiet and research more about how pathetic it is that the US eroded it's own base to allow off-shoring of trillions for short-term profits.
Here is the real kicker: China has to raise its own rates sooner rather than later. The same with Brasil and South America. The offshore attitude to every where but the US is coming full circle.
The biggest consumption base in the globe is the US. The best action the Congress could take would be to draft law that overturns the mid-1930's Supreme Court ruling that Corporations are due the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances and with none of the responsibilities inherent in doing so. Lobbying will then be illegal and real competition can begin. You want effective change and competition, you'll have to realize that yes, the second wave of Manufacturing will come, but on a global scale. The second wave of the industrial revolution will happen and the US will be on the forefront, once again.
That will require manufacturing, but it will not be the same. Without the Government R&D Grants into Biotech, Nanoscience, Advanced Materials, Smart Grids, etc., the corporations wouldn't know their head from their rear end.
The Public/Private partnerships of major US Universities with LLCs started by these same universities is what scares the hell out of the Biotech industries--they don't have the IP owned by these Universities who finally woke up and decided to leverage what they educate and research.
BioMass energy is beginning it's clinical Trials at WSU/PNNL/ and the Department of Energy where any biomass is used to generate gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. It was just announced and they expect distribution and refinement ready for world-wide use by 2013. You wanna see how fast the US Oil Industry is going to cry foul when that happens?
It's a Public/Private partnership. The pure private approach has advanced the world on a time frame they decide leaving Science waiting decades for research already verified to see the light of day.
The only industry with this exception has been the IT Industry, but then again the IT Industry exists purely because of Government R&D.
Keep writing about what you surely know little about. History has a way of exposing ignorance and you seem to be swimming in it.
Totally agree.
Why does manufacturing output as a percentage of GDP matter?
because it shows that a developed country can still be successful using manufacturing for economic output
I try to stay away from these pinhead "American" threads, but it has to be at least noted that what you are pushing here is pure bullshit ideology.
Facts are facts.
The rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer.
That's how capitalism works.
Your other comments about the rich "creating wealth" have also been conclusively disproven many many times. It's basic 'trickle-down' economics. It has never been the case that it works and it never will work.
You can spout this right-wing ideological crap all day long but it won't magically become true at any time.
Totally agree.
How do Gemany and Japan do it?
that doesnt mean less jobs, it means less money for those jobs - as the top one percent keep grabbing a larger peice of the pie there is less to split so a factory job that paid $10/hr in 1980 pays like 12 today when inflation adjusted it should pay closer to 17
Why does manufacturing output as a percentage of GDP matter?
At first, I was going to look for raw dollar figures. But then big countries could look like they have a lot of manufacturing, even if very little of their economy is based on it.
The point is that highly developed countries have a lot of maufacturing. Like Gemany and Japan.
because it shows that a developed country can still be successful using manufacturing for economic output
First, the US does manufacture so its output is certainly not zero.
Second, this chart also shows that an economy can be quite successful even when its manufacturing output (as % of GDP) falls.
Third, all of these developed countries have a falling manufacturing output (as % of GDP).
that doesnt mean less jobs, it means less money for those jobs - as the top one percent keep grabbing a larger peice of the pie there is less to split so a factory job that paid $10/hr in 1980 pays like 12 today when inflation adjusted it should pay closer to 17
I spotted a zero-sum wealther!
It's hard to think of a profitable consumer market that they can enter.
How about the home appliance market? iWash line of laundry machines, iNuke line of microwaves, iChill line of refrigerators, etc.
I have read this site for a long time (amongst many others) but this is the first time I have felt like signing up to say anything. I am baffled by many of the posts on this thread but I learnt some time ago browsing here that many have inflexible views, refuse to keep an open mind and are really quite aggressive with those who do not share their viewpoints.
To quote Robert Quillen ?Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.?
Thus I will stick to a few thoughts that popped into my head instead.
1) ARM does have other benefits beyond those mentioned. Unlikely Apple would buy ARM but they are ramping up their development of mobile graphics & SoCs for Internet connected televisions (and other devices).
ARM are also based in Cambridge, England and have a strong talent pool and ties with the University. They are in the primary position for talent coming out of the University of Cambridge and the very latest in computer science research.
2) It is possible to start from scratch in a country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13058866
As you will all know Foxconn plan to do exactly that in Brazil, lack of manufacturing infrastructure or expertise is not the reason they choose not to manufacture in the US. That is down primarily to wages. (I hope the BBC link works in your country of residence, apologies if not).
3) Wages are rising quite fast in China, pre-suicides the reported rate for a Foxconn worker was 900 RMB and is now 2000 RMB ($310 a month). You will appreciate that is quite the rise. Indeed the average rise in the minimum wage levels across China in 2010 was 22.5%.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wag...m-salary-hikes
With inflation at 5.5% and food inflation at 11.7% in China this pressure will only accelerate further in the next year or two.
In addition to this to combat food inflation (and under pressure from the US) China is relaxing its hold of the value of the Yuan. This year alone it has gained about 10% on the dollar (last time I checked, may not be current) and is said to be undervalued by at least 40%. This would make the current value of Foxconn wages $434 a month. Considering the current low interest rates in the developed world driving investment to China the undervaluation estimate on the Yuan may be conservative.
Recently in the Chinese apparel making factories there has already been a shortage of workers and when the domestic market catches light in China (and it will) this problem could well send wages rocketing as factories struggle to meet demand.
This over a period of time will make manufacturing in America more appealing but initially will drive factories to Latin America, India and then the last source of cheap labour Africa. People in Nigeria for example earn about $330 Per year.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...ome_in_Nigeria
So in short low tech assembly will probably shift around the world a bit until China & India become huge consumers. At that point in time the US could see a resurgence in this area or we could see rapid development of further automation.
4) The US actually has a shortage of workers!
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2010...kill-shortage/
So despite many many people being out of work, there are potentially jobs for some of them but no one has the right skills set. How much growth is this stalling in these businesses?, how many other low skill jobs would that growth have created?.
The US (and UK for that matter) has under invested in education and the future of its economy. It has workers with low skills or the wrong ones. The economy has moved to hi tech and the education system has not caught up. Despite a growing debt unless there is significant investment and realignment to upskill then other countries will continue to catch up.
People who are better educated have better health, commit less crimes, are less of a burden on the state and they create jobs. Short term investment pain for long term gain but unfortunately most Governments do not think further than making sure they are voted in at the next election. Why go for long term when they won't be in office to reap the glory, so they go for short term populist wins instead.
Anyhow less of my ramble! Enjoy your weekend.
Great thoughts and totally agree.
I wish we would cut the military budget by at at least a third and put it all into education...
Do you think every single Android, Motorola etc American user base would dump their phones and buy iPhone just because it is made in the USA? I don't think so. That ship (local manufacturing) has sailed decades ago when capitalism rises and many third world countries were suppresses by IMF, world bank etc. Get a grip!
At some point, someone needs to be a leader. Steve Jobs is very well liked around the world and could be that person.
I know this is crazy talk and I know it won't happen, but think about how great it would be if it did.
First, the US does manufacture so its output is certainly not zero.
.
Last I heard, the US no longer manufactures a damn thing!
Last I checked, the US manufactures more than any other country on the face of the earth.
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic-...g-things/2134/
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
Apple could do it, if they wanted to.
Last I heard, the US no longer manufactures a damn thing!
You heard wrong.
Last I checked, the US manufactures more than any other country on the face of the earth.
That's correct.
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
They are wrong and confused. They are lamenting the fact that certain products are not manufactured in the US.
Apple could do it, if they wanted to.
Probably not with the products they make.
Last I heard, the US no longer manufactures a damn thing!
Last I checked, the US manufactures more than any other country on the face of the earth.
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic-...g-things/2134/
But according to other posters, it is not possible to manufacture anything in a developed country, despite the fact that the largest manufcaturing economies are in developed countries.
Apple could do it, if they wanted to.
Good stuff. Agreed.
If you really want more manufacturing in the US, then lobby for more employment deregulation, including any special legal privileges granted to unions.
But, in the end, this is the dynamic that happens. There are a wide array of jobs in the US that don't fall into the categories of "flipping burgers" (which are entry level jobs for teenagers) and high-tech doctorate jobs in hi-tech and bio-tech. Most of the people I work with are all pretty middle class. We all earn middle class wage and live in middle class homes. None of us manufacture anything. There are also tons of people working in manufacturing in the US, they are just manufacturing much higher value things than the stuff we outsource to places like China and Malaysia.
What we need is for the government to get out of the way of business and the economy will grow and create tons of jobs. But most of these will not be the jobs from yesteryear...and that's probably going to be okay.
Instead of repeating the standard (disproved) Republican answer for everything, please just post a link to it. That would waste a lot less bandwidth.
I spotted a zero-sum wealther!
come on, we all know about Reaganomics, trickledown means that workers are the urinal cakes, hoping for a little trickle...