I'd argue that protein is more important, even if you're a sprinter. I swear it allows the muscles to go harder for longer. I don't have any proof except personal experience.
So yeah, you could go ahead and eat soy all day, but I'm not a big fan of the stuff.
McDonalds: Over 99 Million chubby kids playing in tubes since 195x!</strong><hr></blockquote>
In the 60's and 70's fast food consumption rose steadily, while obesity held constant. It wasn't until the 80's, when the FDA sponsored the low-fat/high-starch diet that obesity soared.
<strong>To cut to the chase, I think that vegetarianism is a foolish practice, often the result of an addiction or a mental block.
I'm not out to stop you from being vegetarian, but I find it to be an unhealthy way to eat. A few weeks ago the NY Times magazine had a feature article that covered the extent of my argument against vegetarianism. To summarize, the idea that low fat, high carb diets as recommended by the food pyramid are healthy is not at all certain. In the early 80's, when this diet was prescibed by the FDA as the healthy diet, it went against hundreds of years of contrary culinary data. Since then, obesity in America has surged.
Of all the vegetarians I know, so few of them are anywhere near fit. Most of them are way out of shape, chunky, and nearly anemic.
I've seen meat processing plants too. I've also seen water treatment plant, sewage treatment plants, and etc. The water that comes out of the tap is hardly clean. When there's a storm, raw sewage often overflows into the storm drains. Face it, there's fecal matter everywhere. Even on vegetables. The fertilizers are washed off of the vegetables with water that runs through miles of dirty pipes, and it never will remove all of the fertilizer. Farm raised meats are cleaned off haphazardly too, and there's plenty of bacteria abound, but It hasn't managed to affect me yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. I read this article too. . .It says nothing against vegetarianism. You silly fool. It simply states the high fat/low carb(atkins) and high carb/low fat extremest dies are no good. Of course any semi-intelligent person, knows that you have to have a well balanced diet, with veggies and fruits.
2. Have you ever heard of washing vegetables??? This can remove bacteria and pesticides, found in the feild and the supermarket.
3. To all the athletes who say that they have to eat meat for enery ect. . . I'm not saying that you should become a vegetarian, but I eat as much fake meat at a normal person eats meat, and it has less fat then skinless chicken, 120% the protien as normal meat and twice as much fiber. Don't tell me that isn't healthy.
That conbined with a healthy organic balanced diet of wheats, legumes, fruits(espesscially blue and red pigmented ones) and vegetables is quite healthy.
I probably just have meat too ingrained in my habbits, but I just can't get excited about throwing a couple of tofu dogs and boca burgers on the grill for a back yard BBQ.
But if anyone could point out a good veg cookbook that'd be great. Wouldn't mind trying out a few recipes for a change in pace.
The moose wood is a famouse restaurant in Ithaca NY where i live, they have the best food ever, My grandmother lives in an apartment above it, but she can never get the name right she calls is, moosehead, moosejaw, and best of all moonrock. she also caused 600 dollars of damage there from flooding her apartment <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Ithaca... what a beautiful place...love that swimmig hole on the creek with the falls... what's it called?
anyway, there are many reasons for people to be vegetarians . .. give it a rest who cares?
Some people are vegetarians from birth to death: for example, many upper class Hindu people never have or never will eat meat, and they are very healthy . . . . a good friend of mine, hindu, is extremely healthy and very very intelligent... having recieved his PHD in physics from Berkeley .. . without any lack of energy.
Vegans can be annoying when they are new to the practice.
like people who just quit smoking, they tend to wear it on their sleeve.
Also, there is some truth to the fact that it is trendy, especially amongst the neo-punk girl band crowd . . and therefore, is part of a lifestyle as much as a dietary ethical choice . . . but so what.
One thing about vegans, they smell really good.
I was involved with a vegan for awhile and she smelled like perfume naturally!!!!
I eat some meat, but NO BEEF . . . wnd for many reasons.
one among them Mad Cow Desease: Mad Cow Desease has a latency period of 7 to ten years in cows, American beef may be infected and nobody would know for 7 to 10 years,
you can not make it go away even when you burn the meat to ashes.. its still there in the ashes.
American Beef Industry might be so touchy about sales and peceptions (suing Oprah when she agreed with a veggy guest about something) that they might very well try to hide any information about outbreaks in cows . .
Downers Syndrome: what is it? and why haven't we heard more about it?
Too many hormones that screw you up in innumerable ways,
They manner in which cattle are raised is attrocious: they are fed so many antibiotics in the fattening phase, and these take over their immune processes, that they are basically dependant upon them for survival: meaning that they are simultaneiuosly sick and dying but kept alive by antibiotics .. . and what can this mean as far as developing resistent strains of bacteria?
(a few very good articles on this latter topic: one in the NY Times Magazine a few monthes ago, and a very good one from an argentine cattle rancher who visited the states and ovesaw they way we do it and was sickened... its in Harpers about six months ago.)
About shooting your own, be carefull because chronic wasting desease (Mad Cow for Elk) is rampant in the US.
I am a vegetarian... now 27 and have been that for the last 12 years.
In the last months i'm eating some fish and seafood though, my body is missing quite a lot the proteines so that's the reason for change. Meat... no way. It disgusts me (i don't mind when the others eat it eve i front of me as long as i dont have to)
The lack of the proteines was not though caused byt the vegetarianism but (anorexia, i hate mentioning it.. been since i was something like 7 ). Kidney problems, hair really falling apart... If my hair was ok i won't eat it...
"Ithaca is Gorges" may be a corny pun for a bumper sticker, but it does describe New York State's Ithaca and Tompkins County - numerous streams have cut deep ravines, glens, and gorges through our hills on their way to our lakes, and we have more waterfalls here than we can name or even count...
Many many vegetarians in Portland too. I'm not exactly a vegetarian any longer, as I eat fish once in a while. Before I became vegetarian, I was a hardcore meat-lover, and I definitely feel better now. The main thing is that I don't feel so tired & sluggish after big meals. Though actually, you can get the same tired & sluggish thing from eating too much heavy, fatty food (say, six pieces of cheese pizza and a milk shake) even if it's vegetarian.
I know lots of vegetarians, vegans, and pescetarians (fish-eating vegetarians), maybe 20-30 or so of them, and not one of them would list "oh, the poor animals!" as their main reason for their dietary choices. Usually it's more about health, particiularly the avoidance of additives, chemicals & hormones in factory-farmed meat and dairy products.
1. I read this article too. . .It says nothing against vegetarianism. You silly fool. It simply states the high fat/low carb(atkins) and high carb/low fat extremest dies are no good. Of course any semi-intelligent person, knows that you have to have a well balanced diet, with veggies and fruits.
3. To all the athletes who say that they have to eat meat for enery ect. . . I'm not saying that you should become a vegetarian, but I eat as much fake meat at a normal person eats meat, and it has less fat then skinless chicken, 120% the protien as normal meat and twice as much fiber. Don't tell me that isn't healthy.
That conbined with a healthy organic balanced diet of wheats, legumes, fruits(espesscially blue and red pigmented ones) and vegetables is quite healthy.
As for processed soy, it's not bad, though it's a bit costly to get the non-stinky stuff. I can respect it as a high protein food, and I've eaten it before, it's just that being a vegetarian involves too much effort in determining how to balance one's diet, and then there's that whole thing about the necessary aminos that aren't found in vegetable products. It just seems too complicated to be natural. I also don't think fat is necessarily bad, so I have less interest in the low fat argument.
Don't get me wrong, I state again that I have nothing against vegetarianism (just against vegetarians who are that way out of compulsion and pro-choice vegans), but every time I hear about vegetarianism it really strikes a nerve. Some many of the vegetarians I know are the holier than thou types who preach like evangelical Christian groups. If 90% of them weren't chunky girls, maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed.
If I might throw out some stereotypes for the offing, I would suggest that that is probably because you are college aged and a college student and thus almsot certainly come into contact with lots of other college aged vegetarians. I would also venture to say that your average college campus has a fair number of nouveau trendy cause-aterians whereas actual adult vegetarians would be more pragmatic, as adults tend to be.
Don't get me wrong, I state again that I have nothing against vegetarianism (just against vegetarians who are that way out of compulsion and pro-choice vegans), but every time I hear about vegetarianism it really strikes a nerve. Some many of the vegetarians I know are the holier than thou types who preach like evangelical Christian groups. If 90% of them weren't chunky girls, maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed. </strong><hr></blockquote>
< raises hand > Not a chunky girl!
Not pro-choice and hoping this topic doesn't go that way...I think we already have a thread for that.
My wife is also a vegan (that would be my fault) and she's not chunky or pro-choice either.
See, now thats 2 more people to add to your list.
Oh we don't belong to any evangelical groups either, if that counts for anything.
Thanks! Found a better deal on these from Amazon, though. Lots of reader reviews that liked the recepies, so I think I'll give a couple of them a try. :cool:
Comments
<strong>
needing high energy = carbs = pastas
meat is more protein than carbs, although is just as necessary.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: _ alliance _ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd argue that protein is more important, even if you're a sprinter. I swear it allows the muscles to go harder for longer. I don't have any proof except personal experience.
So yeah, you could go ahead and eat soy all day, but I'm not a big fan of the stuff.
<strong>
McDonalds: Over 99 Million chubby kids playing in tubes since 195x!</strong><hr></blockquote>
In the 60's and 70's fast food consumption rose steadily, while obesity held constant. It wasn't until the 80's, when the FDA sponsored the low-fat/high-starch diet that obesity soared.
<strong>To cut to the chase, I think that vegetarianism is a foolish practice, often the result of an addiction or a mental block.
I'm not out to stop you from being vegetarian, but I find it to be an unhealthy way to eat. A few weeks ago the NY Times magazine had a feature article that covered the extent of my argument against vegetarianism. To summarize, the idea that low fat, high carb diets as recommended by the food pyramid are healthy is not at all certain. In the early 80's, when this diet was prescibed by the FDA as the healthy diet, it went against hundreds of years of contrary culinary data. Since then, obesity in America has surged.
Of all the vegetarians I know, so few of them are anywhere near fit. Most of them are way out of shape, chunky, and nearly anemic.
I've seen meat processing plants too. I've also seen water treatment plant, sewage treatment plants, and etc. The water that comes out of the tap is hardly clean. When there's a storm, raw sewage often overflows into the storm drains. Face it, there's fecal matter everywhere. Even on vegetables. The fertilizers are washed off of the vegetables with water that runs through miles of dirty pipes, and it never will remove all of the fertilizer. Farm raised meats are cleaned off haphazardly too, and there's plenty of bacteria abound, but It hasn't managed to affect me yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. I read this article too. . .It says nothing against vegetarianism. You silly fool. It simply states the high fat/low carb(atkins) and high carb/low fat extremest dies are no good. Of course any semi-intelligent person, knows that you have to have a well balanced diet, with veggies and fruits.
2. Have you ever heard of washing vegetables??? This can remove bacteria and pesticides, found in the feild and the supermarket.
3. To all the athletes who say that they have to eat meat for enery ect. . . I'm not saying that you should become a vegetarian, but I eat as much fake meat at a normal person eats meat, and it has less fat then skinless chicken, 120% the protien as normal meat and twice as much fiber. Don't tell me that isn't healthy.
That conbined with a healthy organic balanced diet of wheats, legumes, fruits(espesscially blue and red pigmented ones) and vegetables is quite healthy.
P.S. I'm skinny, strong, healthy and active.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: xionja ]</p>
I probably just have meat too ingrained in my habbits, but I just can't get excited about throwing a couple of tofu dogs and boca burgers on the grill for a back yard BBQ.
But if anyone could point out a good veg cookbook that'd be great. Wouldn't mind trying out a few recipes for a change in pace.
[QB
But if anyone could point out a good veg cookbook that'd be great. Wouldn't mind trying out a few recipes for a change in pace.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Anything cook book from the moosewood is good
<a href="http://www.moosewoodrestaurant.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.moosewoodrestaurant.com/</a>;
The moose wood is a famouse restaurant in Ithaca NY where i live, they have the best food ever, My grandmother lives in an apartment above it, but she can never get the name right she calls is, moosehead, moosejaw, and best of all moonrock. she also caused 600 dollars of damage there from flooding her apartment <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
anyway, there are many reasons for people to be vegetarians . .. give it a rest who cares?
Some people are vegetarians from birth to death: for example, many upper class Hindu people never have or never will eat meat, and they are very healthy . . . . a good friend of mine, hindu, is extremely healthy and very very intelligent... having recieved his PHD in physics from Berkeley .. . without any lack of energy.
Vegans can be annoying when they are new to the practice.
like people who just quit smoking, they tend to wear it on their sleeve.
Also, there is some truth to the fact that it is trendy, especially amongst the neo-punk girl band crowd . . and therefore, is part of a lifestyle as much as a dietary ethical choice . . . but so what.
One thing about vegans, they smell really good.
I was involved with a vegan for awhile and she smelled like perfume naturally!!!!
I eat some meat, but NO BEEF . . . wnd for many reasons.
one among them Mad Cow Desease: Mad Cow Desease has a latency period of 7 to ten years in cows, American beef may be infected and nobody would know for 7 to 10 years,
you can not make it go away even when you burn the meat to ashes.. its still there in the ashes.
American Beef Industry might be so touchy about sales and peceptions (suing Oprah when she agreed with a veggy guest about something) that they might very well try to hide any information about outbreaks in cows . .
Downers Syndrome: what is it? and why haven't we heard more about it?
Too many hormones that screw you up in innumerable ways,
They manner in which cattle are raised is attrocious: they are fed so many antibiotics in the fattening phase, and these take over their immune processes, that they are basically dependant upon them for survival: meaning that they are simultaneiuosly sick and dying but kept alive by antibiotics .. . and what can this mean as far as developing resistent strains of bacteria?
(a few very good articles on this latter topic: one in the NY Times Magazine a few monthes ago, and a very good one from an argentine cattle rancher who visited the states and ovesaw they way we do it and was sickened... its in Harpers about six months ago.)
About shooting your own, be carefull because chronic wasting desease (Mad Cow for Elk) is rampant in the US.
In the last months i'm eating some fish and seafood though, my body is missing quite a lot the proteines so that's the reason for change. Meat... no way. It disgusts me (i don't mind when the others eat it eve i front of me as long as i dont have to)
The lack of the proteines was not though caused byt the vegetarianism but (anorexia, i hate mentioning it.. been since i was something like 7 ). Kidney problems, hair really falling apart... If my hair was ok i won't eat it...
go to <a href="http://www.visitithaca.com"; target="_blank">www.visitithaca.com</a> for pictures
We also have more vegetarians than you can count. . .8% of the population!
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: xionja ]</p>
I know lots of vegetarians, vegans, and pescetarians (fish-eating vegetarians), maybe 20-30 or so of them, and not one of them would list "oh, the poor animals!" as their main reason for their dietary choices. Usually it's more about health, particiularly the avoidance of additives, chemicals & hormones in factory-farmed meat and dairy products.
<strong>
say, six pieces of cheese pizza and a milk shake</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know I have such a bad intolerance to dairy products, that meal would probably kill me
That was another major reason for becoming a Vegan. I could never enjoy milk products anyway!
i saw a "Think vegetarian" banner somewhere .. with the Apple logo...
if i find it i post it here!!!
i suppose if i would be eating more... i wouldn't have to fall back to the fishs to get more proteines.
i can't tollerate as well the dairy products...
and i hate the tastes of fat. so buttey biscuits and anything with the taste of cream .. i leave them untouched!!
i must have somewhere that logo.. :-/
<strong>
1. I read this article too. . .It says nothing against vegetarianism. You silly fool. It simply states the high fat/low carb(atkins) and high carb/low fat extremest dies are no good. Of course any semi-intelligent person, knows that you have to have a well balanced diet, with veggies and fruits.
3. To all the athletes who say that they have to eat meat for enery ect. . . I'm not saying that you should become a vegetarian, but I eat as much fake meat at a normal person eats meat, and it has less fat then skinless chicken, 120% the protien as normal meat and twice as much fiber. Don't tell me that isn't healthy.
That conbined with a healthy organic balanced diet of wheats, legumes, fruits(espesscially blue and red pigmented ones) and vegetables is quite healthy.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: xionja ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
As for processed soy, it's not bad, though it's a bit costly to get the non-stinky stuff. I can respect it as a high protein food, and I've eaten it before, it's just that being a vegetarian involves too much effort in determining how to balance one's diet, and then there's that whole thing about the necessary aminos that aren't found in vegetable products. It just seems too complicated to be natural. I also don't think fat is necessarily bad, so I have less interest in the low fat argument.
Don't get me wrong, I state again that I have nothing against vegetarianism (just against vegetarians who are that way out of compulsion and pro-choice vegans), but every time I hear about vegetarianism it really strikes a nerve. Some many of the vegetarians I know are the holier than thou types who preach like evangelical Christian groups. If 90% of them weren't chunky girls, maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed.
This morning I had a bacon and sausage sandwich (instead of bread I used a couple of ham steaks)
For Lunch I had a full breast of chicken stuffed with pork chops, which in turn were stuffed with flank steak rolled around a bratwurst.
For dinner I had a salad. But instead of lettuce I used shaved steak, and instead of cucumbers I used salami and pepperoni.
Now I'm eating like my cat!
<strong>
Don't get me wrong, I state again that I have nothing against vegetarianism (just against vegetarians who are that way out of compulsion and pro-choice vegans), but every time I hear about vegetarianism it really strikes a nerve. Some many of the vegetarians I know are the holier than thou types who preach like evangelical Christian groups. If 90% of them weren't chunky girls, maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed.
< raises hand > Not a chunky girl!
Not pro-choice and hoping this topic doesn't go that way...I think we already have a thread for that.
My wife is also a vegan (that would be my fault) and she's not chunky or pro-choice either.
See, now thats 2 more people to add to your list.
Oh we don't belong to any evangelical groups either, if that counts for anything.
<strong>I am in the process of developing and perfecting an all meat diet.
For dinner I had a salad. But instead of lettuce I used shaved steak, and instead of cucumbers I used salami and pepperoni.
Now I'm eating like my cat!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Be careful, or you might end up with breath like your cat!
that's not a fair comment!!
my cat is a meat and fish eater, not a vegetarian...
and his breath does not stink!!!!!
but i guess the carnivora people's does more..
<strong>
Anything cook book from the moosewood is good
<a href="http://www.moosewoodrestaurant.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.moosewoodrestaurant.com/</a>;
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks! Found a better deal on these from Amazon, though. Lots of reader reviews that liked the recepies, so I think I'll give a couple of them a try. :cool: