This only shows how Apple makes their products too expensive.
Actually what it shows is that Apple knows how to make an incredible return on investment. They produce a very high quality product, market and sell it brilliantly and keep the consumer backed up in every way imaginable. Genius Bar anybody?
True, there is no way to know, however it is likely that there are other contributions. However, most of these would fly under the radar.
Apple (and other Silicon Valley companies) typically grants stock options to their employees as incentives or awards, not actual shares. These options must be exercised to have any value; the applicable taxes can be substantial, so many times the shares are sold right away. Any proceeds from an exercised stock option that are donated to charity would not have to disclosed publicly.
Steve Jobs doesn't have any shares of Apple right now. He has a bunch of options, but they're worthless until exercised.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
When I lined up for my iPhone last summer, there was this Apple specialist who patiently and repeatedly talked to people in the queue, giving us updates every 15 - 30 min, taking down our hopeful orders. He took the occasional break but then came right back. I came back another day to line up again to get phones for my kids, and there he was doing the same thing, just as tirelessly. I told him that he was rather admirable and that I hoped he was getting overtime. He said, "Nope. But most of us working here are passionate believers in the company." That says a lot.
Another sign that the company is treating its employees ok? Despite recent departures (Serlet and Johnson), the senior team, all of whom could become CEOs elsewhere, has remained quite static. And they only promote internally. See also how Jobs is not afraid to share the stage during the show and tells.
The flip side is that he is a legendary slave driver.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
Apple's stance with its employees is to be generous with stock option grants and not to spoil them with tons of amenities (e.g., their employee cafeteria is not free whereas Google's various restaurants are famously free).
That's actually a fairer way of doing things, as the amenities at the corporate headquarters don't benefit those working in a satellite office. Also, Apple gives a lot of their products to employees and offers an employee discount.
I believe Steve has actually said in a town hall meeting that he wants employees to have lots of stock; they can sell and do whatever they like with the money.
Their employee retention rate is very high. If you don't like working for Apple, chances are you will be gone shortly, like Mark Papermaster. They work hard, but so do lots of other people in Silicon Valley. It's not like they're taking three-hour lunches at Cisco.
Another sign that the company is treating its employees ok? Despite recent departures (Serlet and Johnson), the senior team, all of whom could become CEOs elsewhere, has remained quite static. And they only promote internally. See also how Jobs is not afraid to share the stage during the ]
That's not a measure because its not comparing it to the standard within silicon valley. I wonder what their employee turnover rate is like. ibm and netflix have the lowest according to several articles.
Probably hard to compare, especially if there is no breakdown between corporate and retail employee turnover. However, my guess is that it's quite low. If the turnover rate was very high, it would be heavily discussed in Silicon Valley and Apple would not be enjoying their current success. You can't be running on all cylinders if you're constantly hiring and training new people.
Apple appears to be unique to high tech in the fact that they have a significant worldwide retail sales operation (which is where most of their headcount grow has been over the past several years).
We do know that Apple corporate has not exploded in headcount. They are very cautious in adding new corporate employees.
Remember, Silicon Valley stock option grants typically take several years to fully vest. Often it's 20-25% one year after the option grant date, plus 2% every month thereafter. Once fully vested, there's a certain period (usually several years) before the options expire. Of course, if you get additional option grants, those clocks start ticking at their respective grant dates. They don't call them "golden handcuffs" for nothing.
Not to go off topic, but I got into the Mac World at HP prices, by buying used. Core2Duo MacBooks are all over the place now for $400-$500. And they are all I need right now.
Not to go off topic, but I got into the Mac World at HP prices, by buying used. Core2Duo MacBooks are all over the place now for $400-$500. And they are all I need right now.
It's actually amazing how well old MBPs hold their value. Even at 3 years old they still have resale value, whereas a 3 year old HP or Dell is effectively an ugly paperweight.
I bought a black MacBook C2D 2.0, 2gig ram, 120gig HD, and a brand new battery for $500. Got a white one with 512RAM and 60 gig HD for $350, Upgraded to 2 gig Ram for $30. And they are MacBooks with firewire. They have worked flawlessly for about a year now. Not the latest and greatest, but they do more than I need. I run some pretty pretty heavy audio stuff on the black one.
How many of those have you purchased, and which processors?
My Dell Core 2 Duo is holding up marvelously in its fourth year.
Well you've been very lucky, but good luck trying to sell a PC of that age for more than pocket change. The processor isn't the problem, PC vendors use low quality components, wherever they can - which means motherboards, fans, keyboards etc.
No suprise. Usually what HP makes is a heaping pile of shit, they have to make up for that in volume. Not really a comparison though, it's just typical Apple fan chest-beating.
Buying computers as a resale investment is a poor financial decision, regardless of brand. You'll make more cash from darn near any other investment.
No kidding! With the rate of hardware advancement every six months, buying a computer with considerations of what it's worth will be in a few years to make back some money is just foolish. What possess people to not use something until it is either dies completely or can't be fixed for less than or equal to it's worth just blows my mind. I know people who trade in cars every two to five years to get the newest thing. That's just nuts. Use something until it dies or your needs drastically change.
Of course I have, there's one sitting in my living room as a blu-ray source even now.
Quote:
Buying computers as a resale investment is a poor financial decision, regardless of brand. You'll make more cash from darn near any other investment.
Did I suggest that you should? The fact is that if you want to buy an old MBP you can, but it will cost you almost as much as a new HP laptop. The depreciation is lower, in much the same way as the depreciation is lower on a BMW than a Ford. Nobody is suggesting that you buy BMWs as an investment either.
I've no idea how long you can make a PC last but you're clearly a wiz with a straw man.
That laptop is pretty much an antique at this point, pre unibody design - pretty much the oldest thing you could buy that would support lion - and it would still cost you £110.
This one is even older, won't support lion and the vendor is hoping for more than £300! And people will actually pay it - yes I think that's remarkable.
I am using an HP now, and you get what you pay for. I suppose Apple is making up for the fact they lost money on sales of each Mac in the 90s, about the time they almost failed. Apple ... Either boost the power of the mini, or scale down the Pro.
What about the operating systems? I am sure that HP is having to pay for Windows where as Apple is including the operating system for free.
The 'Apple Premium' is hardly 'free', but I get where you're coming from. Macs are expensive because there really is no other system that provides 'computing done right', oddly enough. Since Apple has no real competition in its core value proposition, it can charge whatever the market will bear, and to hell with marketshare.
It's funny that Macs are compared to 'luxury' cars - because the comparison breaks down. Macs don't provide luxury or prestige, they are simply the only computer company that provides basic functionality. The correct analogical comparison is not between a compact car and a luxury sedan - it's more between a 'car' that is a conglomerated mongrel of poorly-fitting parts that frequently breaks down, is theft-friendly, and wildly unsafe to a car that simply 'works'.
Comments
Apple tax? I'm pretty sure Microsoft makes more selling each copy of Windows than Apple does with their OS. C'mon.
The MS tax is even worse. If only I could live with Linux. But I live with Mac...
This only shows how Apple makes their products too expensive.
Actually what it shows is that Apple knows how to make an incredible return on investment. They produce a very high quality product, market and sell it brilliantly and keep the consumer backed up in every way imaginable. Genius Bar anybody?
Actually, it works better as a Mexican soap opera (thank you Google translate!):
Person: Te quiero, Apple.
Apple: ¡Ay, no te puedo amar de nuevo, porque yo soy una empresa, y por lo tanto, soy incapaz de amar.
Person: NOOOOOOOO! ¿Por qué, Dios, Por qué??
disclaimer: It's been about a decade since I've spoken a word of Spanish, so I don't know if it's correct.
Ok ok! stop! you won the thread already!
True, there is no way to know, however it is likely that there are other contributions. However, most of these would fly under the radar.
Apple (and other Silicon Valley companies) typically grants stock options to their employees as incentives or awards, not actual shares. These options must be exercised to have any value; the applicable taxes can be substantial, so many times the shares are sold right away. Any proceeds from an exercised stock option that are donated to charity would not have to disclosed publicly.
Steve Jobs doesn't have any shares of Apple right now. He has a bunch of options, but they're worthless until exercised.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
When I lined up for my iPhone last summer, there was this Apple specialist who patiently and repeatedly talked to people in the queue, giving us updates every 15 - 30 min, taking down our hopeful orders. He took the occasional break but then came right back. I came back another day to line up again to get phones for my kids, and there he was doing the same thing, just as tirelessly. I told him that he was rather admirable and that I hoped he was getting overtime. He said, "Nope. But most of us working here are passionate believers in the company." That says a lot.
Another sign that the company is treating its employees ok? Despite recent departures (Serlet and Johnson), the senior team, all of whom could become CEOs elsewhere, has remained quite static. And they only promote internally. See also how Jobs is not afraid to share the stage during the show and tells.
The flip side is that he is a legendary slave driver.
I guess the best measure is to see how they treat their own employees. I think that would show how much they really care about giving back. I really do hope they do treat their employees well but I never hear anything about that other than the Apple bus which most Tech Companies in Silicon Valley already have. I know that some store employees are trying to form a union which shows there is discontent in that area.
Apple's stance with its employees is to be generous with stock option grants and not to spoil them with tons of amenities (e.g., their employee cafeteria is not free whereas Google's various restaurants are famously free).
That's actually a fairer way of doing things, as the amenities at the corporate headquarters don't benefit those working in a satellite office. Also, Apple gives a lot of their products to employees and offers an employee discount.
I believe Steve has actually said in a town hall meeting that he wants employees to have lots of stock; they can sell and do whatever they like with the money.
Their employee retention rate is very high. If you don't like working for Apple, chances are you will be gone shortly, like Mark Papermaster. They work hard, but so do lots of other people in Silicon Valley. It's not like they're taking three-hour lunches at Cisco.
That's not a measure because its not comparing it to the standard within silicon valley. I wonder what their employee turnover rate is like. ibm and netflix have the lowest according to several articles.
Apple appears to be unique to high tech in the fact that they have a significant worldwide retail sales operation (which is where most of their headcount grow has been over the past several years).
We do know that Apple corporate has not exploded in headcount. They are very cautious in adding new corporate employees.
Remember, Silicon Valley stock option grants typically take several years to fully vest. Often it's 20-25% one year after the option grant date, plus 2% every month thereafter. Once fully vested, there's a certain period (usually several years) before the options expire. Of course, if you get additional option grants, those clocks start ticking at their respective grant dates. They don't call them "golden handcuffs" for nothing.
Not to go off topic, but I got into the Mac World at HP prices, by buying used. Core2Duo MacBooks are all over the place now for $400-$500. And they are all I need right now.
It's actually amazing how well old MBPs hold their value. Even at 3 years old they still have resale value, whereas a 3 year old HP or Dell is effectively an ugly paperweight.
How many of those have you purchased, and which processors?
My Dell Core 2 Duo is holding up marvelously in its fourth year.
Well you've been very lucky, but good luck trying to sell a PC of that age for more than pocket change. The processor isn't the problem, PC vendors use low quality components, wherever they can - which means motherboards, fans, keyboards etc.
Buying computers as a resale investment is a poor financial decision, regardless of brand. You'll make more cash from darn near any other investment.
No kidding! With the rate of hardware advancement every six months, buying a computer with considerations of what it's worth will be in a few years to make back some money is just foolish. What possess people to not use something until it is either dies completely or can't be fixed for less than or equal to it's worth just blows my mind. I know people who trade in cars every two to five years to get the newest thing.
So you haven't actually owned PCs yourself?
Of course I have, there's one sitting in my living room as a blu-ray source even now.
Buying computers as a resale investment is a poor financial decision, regardless of brand. You'll make more cash from darn near any other investment.
Did I suggest that you should? The fact is that if you want to buy an old MBP you can, but it will cost you almost as much as a new HP laptop. The depreciation is lower, in much the same way as the depreciation is lower on a BMW than a Ford. Nobody is suggesting that you buy BMWs as an investment either.
I've no idea how long you can make a PC last but you're clearly a wiz with a straw man.
Here's an example http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/apple-macbook-...#ht_1954wt_961
That laptop is pretty much an antique at this point, pre unibody design - pretty much the oldest thing you could buy that would support lion - and it would still cost you £110.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-MacBook-...3#ht_500wt_901
This one is even older, won't support lion and the vendor is hoping for more than £300! And people will actually pay it - yes I think that's remarkable.
What about the operating systems? I am sure that HP is having to pay for Windows where as Apple is including the operating system for free.
The 'Apple Premium' is hardly 'free', but I get where you're coming from. Macs are expensive because there really is no other system that provides 'computing done right', oddly enough. Since Apple has no real competition in its core value proposition, it can charge whatever the market will bear, and to hell with marketshare.
It's funny that Macs are compared to 'luxury' cars - because the comparison breaks down. Macs don't provide luxury or prestige, they are simply the only computer company that provides basic functionality. The correct analogical comparison is not between a compact car and a luxury sedan - it's more between a 'car' that is a conglomerated mongrel of poorly-fitting parts that frequently breaks down, is theft-friendly, and wildly unsafe to a car that simply 'works'.