Just wanted to create a future reference source so statements such as " Apple was first, Samsung is a copy cat" don't happen.
Well if Apple does it with a PV overlaying or underlaying the screen then they will indeed be first with that. Have you considered creating a SamsungInsider site for people like yourself?
Very well and fair enough. Let's be more rigorous with our numbers then.
How about some rigour with the units? The SI for the watt is W not w. you can't say that 'power production over 10 hours is 450mw' that's just garbage. you mean mWh. What is it about power units and energy units that makes people do such violence to them ?
As to your assumptions. The idea that internal illumination is only 1W/m^2 only makes sense for artificially lit space.
My 40 m^2 living room has about 6 m^2 of windows, so average internal illumination from daylight of order 100W/m^2. Ok, maybe I have more window than average, but still it's going to be more than 10 for daylit space.
How about some rigour with the units? The SI for the watt is W not w. you can't say that 'power production over 10 hours is 450mw' that's just garbage. you mean mWh. What is it about power units and energy units that makes people do such violence to them ?
As to your assumptions. The idea that internal illumination is only 1W/m^2 only makes sense for artificially lit space.
My 40 m^2 living room has about 6 m^2 of windows, so average internal illumination from daylight of order 100W/m^2. Ok, maybe I have more window than average, but still it's going to be more than 10 for daylit space.
Good criticisms, I'll update my comment to abide to them.
Good criticisms, I'll update my comment to abide to them.
Dear LuisDias and all,
Apologize for the unit naming errors in the first post, that of course should have been written correctly. Never the less your posts do kind of acknowledge there would be a substantial gain under certain circumstances. I agree with you however that with current specs the gains could be rather small! My original post was meant to counter Maury Marcowitx so-called expert-on-the-subject post, and still it shows that he was way off talking about a few milliwatts. The technology is certainly relevant!
Notice one thing:
Amorpheous (thin-film) solar cells have very high efficiency when not facing directly towards the sun and/or in cloudy conditions. This is opposed to traditional mono- or poly crystaline PV's that need to be oriented directly towards the sun in order to perform efficiently. And transparent versions are coming, making it possible to mount on the screen.
Lets for fun try to do the calculation in a different way. Most PV products on the market have a yearly production of around 200 Kwh for 1 M2 of panel. Notice these are rough numbers, and they are based on San Diego location. It is not a theoretic number, but a real measurement on the energy bill.
1 M2 PV panel today produces: 200,000 watts / 365 days = 548 watts per day.
This is during the average daytime of 12 hours. So per hour of daytime this is: 548 watts per day / 12 hours = 45 watts per Hour.
This is for 1 M2, lets see how much for an ipad size of 0.05 M2
45 watts per hour x 0.05 M2 = 2,28 WH per ipad!
This is off course based on a perfect angled, always outdoor ipad. But...it is also an average number from sun-rise to sun-set. You can expect charging at noon would give you much more than 2,28 WH from the PV panel.
Anyway, this was just another completely unscientific way to show that there might be a future in this, when technology improves just a little. If anyone have WattHour specs on a specific PV product it would be easier to discuss!
MP=MR is a program formula used in marketing and movements to demonstrate that each little step, combined with all other little steps produces a significant result that all participants can share in.
Entertain if you will, that it's not necessarily what solar can provide to the individual in terms of personal energy, the inflection point is when you multiply those savings by the number of solar enabled devices in the market (lets say 20 million) and you get a significant and PR worthy amount of energy taken off the grid. A macro result that you can point to and say "I am responsible for that."
Any takers on postulating the math on what that would look like for a day/year on 20 million units? (I don't want to upset the engineers on the board with my math)
Any takers on postulating the math on what that would look like for a day/year on 20 million units? (I don't want to upset the engineers on the board with my math)
Too hard to quantify because you'd have to figure in the energy cost of the organic PV layer and we have no data whatsoever on that. I will venture to guess that from a macro perspective this will be mostly irrelevant, it's not intended for green reasons - it's intended to extend portability.
Too hard to quantify because you'd have to figure in the energy cost of the organic PV layer and we have no data whatsoever on that. I will venture to guess that from a macro perspective this will be mostly irrelevant, it's not intended for green reasons - it's intended to extend portability.
Exactly - the total amount would never be above the actual usage of the device. If these devices use something on the order of 2.5W (and surely the iPhone uses way less than this), then they use less than your tiniest lightbulb, even if it isn't an incandescent one.
IOW, it's utterly meaningless in the largest sense.
Exactly - the total amount would never be above the actual usage of the device. If these devices use something on the order of 2.5W (and surely the iPhone uses way less than this), then they use less than your tiniest lightbulb, even if it isn't an incandescent one.
IOW, it's utterly meaningless in the largest sense.
Yep - far more energy could be saved optimizing power bricks.
Well if Apple does it with a PV overlaying or underlaying the screen then they will indeed be first with that. Have you considered creating a SamsungInsider site for people like yourself?
No, why should I? Are you trying to censor me?
If you want to be successful in war or business (or life in general), like Sun Tzu said, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".
Most probably he is. Don't mind that kind of shenanigan. Not worth the trouble.
Actually I was just making a joke about the fact that one of the few samsung fanboys in the world spends so much time posting here. Presumably because there aren't enough other samsung fanboys for any decent sites dedicated to them.
Actually I was just making a joke about the fact that one of the few samsung fanboys in the world spends so much time posting here. Presumably because there aren't enough other samsung fanboys for any decent sites dedicated to them.
Comments
Thanks, the ugliness of those devices is convincing proof that Apple won't do it that way.
Just wanted to create a future reference source so statements such as " Apple was first, Samsung is a copy cat" don't happen.
Just wanted to create a future reference source so statements such as " Apple was first, Samsung is a copy cat" don't happen.
Well if Apple does it with a PV overlaying or underlaying the screen then they will indeed be first with that. Have you considered creating a SamsungInsider site for people like yourself?
Very well and fair enough. Let's be more rigorous with our numbers then.
How about some rigour with the units? The SI for the watt is W not w. you can't say that 'power production over 10 hours is 450mw' that's just garbage. you mean mWh. What is it about power units and energy units that makes people do such violence to them ?
As to your assumptions. The idea that internal illumination is only 1W/m^2 only makes sense for artificially lit space.
My 40 m^2 living room has about 6 m^2 of windows, so average internal illumination from daylight of order 100W/m^2. Ok, maybe I have more window than average, but still it's going to be more than 10 for daylit space.
How about some rigour with the units? The SI for the watt is W not w. you can't say that 'power production over 10 hours is 450mw' that's just garbage. you mean mWh. What is it about power units and energy units that makes people do such violence to them ?
As to your assumptions. The idea that internal illumination is only 1W/m^2 only makes sense for artificially lit space.
My 40 m^2 living room has about 6 m^2 of windows, so average internal illumination from daylight of order 100W/m^2. Ok, maybe I have more window than average, but still it's going to be more than 10 for daylit space.
Good criticisms, I'll update my comment to abide to them.
Good criticisms, I'll update my comment to abide to them.
Dear LuisDias and all,
Apologize for the unit naming errors in the first post, that of course should have been written correctly. Never the less your posts do kind of acknowledge there would be a substantial gain under certain circumstances. I agree with you however that with current specs the gains could be rather small! My original post was meant to counter Maury Marcowitx so-called expert-on-the-subject post, and still it shows that he was way off talking about a few milliwatts. The technology is certainly relevant!
Notice one thing:
Amorpheous (thin-film) solar cells have very high efficiency when not facing directly towards the sun and/or in cloudy conditions. This is opposed to traditional mono- or poly crystaline PV's that need to be oriented directly towards the sun in order to perform efficiently. And transparent versions are coming, making it possible to mount on the screen.
Lets for fun try to do the calculation in a different way. Most PV products on the market have a yearly production of around 200 Kwh for 1 M2 of panel. Notice these are rough numbers, and they are based on San Diego location. It is not a theoretic number, but a real measurement on the energy bill.
1 M2 PV panel today produces: 200,000 watts / 365 days = 548 watts per day.
This is during the average daytime of 12 hours. So per hour of daytime this is: 548 watts per day / 12 hours = 45 watts per Hour.
This is for 1 M2, lets see how much for an ipad size of 0.05 M2
45 watts per hour x 0.05 M2 = 2,28 WH per ipad!
This is off course based on a perfect angled, always outdoor ipad. But...it is also an average number from sun-rise to sun-set. You can expect charging at noon would give you much more than 2,28 WH from the PV panel.
Anyway, this was just another completely unscientific way to show that there might be a future in this, when technology improves just a little. If anyone have WattHour specs on a specific PV product it would be easier to discuss!
Entertain if you will, that it's not necessarily what solar can provide to the individual in terms of personal energy, the inflection point is when you multiply those savings by the number of solar enabled devices in the market (lets say 20 million) and you get a significant and PR worthy amount of energy taken off the grid. A macro result that you can point to and say "I am responsible for that."
Any takers on postulating the math on what that would look like for a day/year on 20 million units? (I don't want to upset the engineers on the board with my math)
Any takers on postulating the math on what that would look like for a day/year on 20 million units? (I don't want to upset the engineers on the board with my math)
Too hard to quantify because you'd have to figure in the energy cost of the organic PV layer and we have no data whatsoever on that. I will venture to guess that from a macro perspective this will be mostly irrelevant, it's not intended for green reasons - it's intended to extend portability.
Too hard to quantify because you'd have to figure in the energy cost of the organic PV layer and we have no data whatsoever on that. I will venture to guess that from a macro perspective this will be mostly irrelevant, it's not intended for green reasons - it's intended to extend portability.
Exactly - the total amount would never be above the actual usage of the device. If these devices use something on the order of 2.5W (and surely the iPhone uses way less than this), then they use less than your tiniest lightbulb, even if it isn't an incandescent one.
IOW, it's utterly meaningless in the largest sense.
Exactly - the total amount would never be above the actual usage of the device. If these devices use something on the order of 2.5W (and surely the iPhone uses way less than this), then they use less than your tiniest lightbulb, even if it isn't an incandescent one.
IOW, it's utterly meaningless in the largest sense.
Yep - far more energy could be saved optimizing power bricks.
Well if Apple does it with a PV overlaying or underlaying the screen then they will indeed be first with that. Have you considered creating a SamsungInsider site for people like yourself?
No, why should I? Are you trying to censor me?
If you want to be successful in war or business (or life in general), like Sun Tzu said, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".
No, why should I? Are you trying to censor me?
Most probably he is. Don't mind that kind of shenanigan. Not worth the trouble.
Most probably he is. Don't mind that kind of shenanigan. Not worth the trouble.
Actually I was just making a joke about the fact that one of the few samsung fanboys in the world spends so much time posting here. Presumably because there aren't enough other samsung fanboys for any decent sites dedicated to them.
Actually I was just making a joke about the fact that one of the few samsung fanboys in the world spends so much time posting here. Presumably because there aren't enough other samsung fanboys for any decent sites dedicated to them.
It wasn't funny.
It wasn't funny.
everyone is a critic