LJ is second in the nation for rushing yards and first and the nation in for all-purpose yards. He trails that Colorado RB by 6 yards for first in the nation in the former and is assured of surpassing him against Michigan State next week. Aye.... I don't know....at least for runningbacks he has to be the top contender.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right. His stats are very impressive, and he definitely should be in the running for the Heisman. I also agree with you that he probably won't be a serious contender because the Big 10 is underrated.
However, I would still argue that Banks deserves the Heisman more. He is second in the nation in quarterback rating. He averages 13 yards/run on called quarterback keepers. He only has 4 interceptions all season, and has been sacked only 11 times.
Hopefully the Big 10 will make a good showing in the bowls this year, so we can start building our reputation again. Good luck with Mich St. next week.
Not sure what call you're talking about, but "down by contact" doesn't exist in college.
Iowa fans...
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point (possibly the first one ever by an IA State fan). I'm trying to remember the exact play. What I remeber (after a little more reflection) is this: During the first half, someone from Penn St. fumbled the ball, and the Hawks picked it up and ran it into the endzone. However, the touchdown was called back because the ref said the Penn St guy was down. Replays clearly showed he wasn't. If only we had challenged the play...oh, wait, college football doesn't have that either.
I apologize for my carelessness.
And just for good measure: Iowa State sucks.
And just for a laugh: Seneca Wallace for Heisman. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Ah heck, Iowa beat Penn State because they were the better team, the refs had nothing to do with it. Just a knee-jerk reaction to question anything an Iowa fan says!
I've had respect for that team beaten into me week after week.
I take solice in the fact that the rest of my life I can say to my Hawkeye-fan friends, "Jeez, think what could have been for the Hawks in '02 if it wasn't for that second half against State!"
Penn State could easily have an undefeated season going. One bad pass, at Ohio State, a couple of bad calls. BY the way, the pass interference call at the end of the Penn State game didn't decide anything. They still would have had to go 70 yards against the best defense in the country in less than 90 seconds.
Yeah, you're right. That's why no one really complains about the fact that the Ohio State guy clearly manhandled the Penn State receiver on 4th down. Yeah they would have had a first down but they still would have had to drive so many yards in so little time. It's just the idea that the bad call prevented the drive from going further. SO you don't know really if they would have scored or not. The two biggies though were Michigan and Iowa. Penn State is a top 10 team- the big 10 should have 4 teams up there, including Larry Johnson as the frontrunner for runningbacks competing for the Heisman.
Stop whining about the officiating. You can't have it both ways, you want to mention the calls that hurt Penn State while ignoring the ones that helped them. If both of those games are called correctly PSU still loses both. If the Iowa game is called correctly Iowa has another 7 points from the fumble earlier in the game which was an obvious blown call. They never get the game to overtime if the game is called right. The call at the end only allows them to continue a drive that would have still left them a touchdown behind. The call in the Michigan was subsequent to a 3rd down pass that was incomplete but mistakenly called complete. The missed out of bounds call never even happens without a previous error which kept the drive alive. In reality PSU would have punted and the game would have gone to OT anyway as it did. Yes calls were missed, but in both cases there were equally important calls that were made which went for PSU and gave them chances they did not deserve in the first place.
Penn State will get LSU or Florida or someone like that in the Citrus. I like Penn State's chances to win but they are not gonna smoke anyone. This is a team whose marquee win is over a 7-5 Nebraksa team. PSU has yet to beat or come close to smoking a good team.
So big games this week Texas Tech at Oklamohoma, tomorrow, we have Pitt at Miami. If Miami loses, they don't even win the suck ass Big East. Miami and Ohio State are in the same position that way. Wouldn't that be a turn around. Washington State / Washington, Iowa has to be cheering for Washington as does every one else. I don't hink anybody thinks Washington should #3. The way they lost to Ohio State was ugly. The subs were in early. Well before the 3rd quarter ended. I don't know enough about the SEC to even guess what's going on but Georgia must have something going on. Oh ya ,USC / UCLA is happening.
<strong>Stop whining about the officiating. You can't have it both ways, you want to mention the calls that hurt Penn State while ignoring the ones that helped them. If both of those games are called correctly PSU still loses both. If the Iowa game is called correctly Iowa has another 7 points from the fumble earlier in the game which was an obvious blown call. They never get the game to overtime if the game is called right. The call at the end only allows them to continue a drive that would have still left them a touchdown behind. The call in the Michigan was subsequent to a 3rd down pass that was incomplete but mistakenly called complete. The missed out of bounds call never even happens without a previous error which kept the drive alive. In reality PSU would have punted and the game would have gone to OT anyway as it did. Yes calls were missed, but in both cases there were equally important calls that were made which went for PSU and gave them chances they did not deserve in the first place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Joe Paterno's and the Penn State Athletic director's credibility is a few thousand notches higher than some poster with "death" in his forum name, and they are "whining" about the calls. These so-called counter-calls you're talking about weren't reported as they would be since no one likes Penn State anyway. So I think you're talking out of your ass.
<strong>Penn State will get LSU or Florida or someone like that in the Citrus. I like Penn State's chances to win but they are not gonna smoke anyone. This is a team whose marquee win is over a 7-5 Nebraksa team. PSU has yet to beat or come close to smoking a good team.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hello? They were two bad calls and an interception away from being undefeated. They lost by a total of 16 pts with two games decided in overtime to THREE TOP 10 TEAMS. A team doesn't haven't to "smoke" anyone to win. That's what the BCS is for- so teams can't run up the score to the extent which they did pre-BCS and benefit as much from it. Hopefully the Big 10 will have a good bowl showing this year.
<strong>So big games this week Texas Tech at Oklamohoma, tomorrow, we have Pitt at Miami. If Miami loses, they don't even win the suck ass Big East. Miami and Ohio State are in the same position that way. Wouldn't that be a turn around. Washington State / Washington, Iowa has to be cheering for Washington as does every one else. I don't hink anybody thinks Washington should #3. The way they lost to Ohio State was ugly. The subs were in early. Well before the 3rd quarter ended. I don't know enough about the SEC to even guess what's going on but Georgia must have something going on. Oh ya ,USC / UCLA is happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cool. Do you think we could see an Ohio State- Iowa national championship game?
[quote]Hello? They were two bad calls and an interception away from being undefeated.<hr></blockquote>
Coulda Shoulda Woulda Blah Blah Blah. Penn State is 0-3 versus currently ranked opponents (good teams). Therefore the statement made above that PSU will smoke any bowl team that they might potentially play (Citrus SEC/Outback SEC/Alamo Big 12) seems dubious.
[quote]Well, Joe Paterno's and the Penn State Athletic director's credibility is a few thousand notches higher than some poster with "death" in his forum name, and they are "whining" about the calls. These so-called counter-calls you're talking about weren't reported as they would be since no one likes Penn State anyway. So I think you're talking out of your ass.<hr></blockquote>
My username has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of my statements. Surely you are bright enough to figure this out.
Joe Paterno is hardly a neutral party. Surely you are not going to suggest that coaches don't sometimes conveniently overlook certain facts in their anger at other facts. And if Joe Paterno has so much credibility and integrity then why has he now has hung a referee in effigy on his front door? Those are the actions of a man acting out of anger while losing perspective on the situation. A shame really, many people have lost respect for him. He made it worse for himself by taking his bitching beyond the bounds of mere bitching and expanding it to include talk of conspiracies by officials based on the state they were from and other such X-Filesesque nonsense.
As far as the other plays, watch the tape yourself. Or you can read any number of editorials by neutral parties which point out the inconsistencies in his and your whining.
It would take a lot for an Iowa OSU matchup. OSU beats Michigan, WSU loses, Miami loses, OK loses, Notre Dame loses, and Georgia loses and provided that the ND loss was to USC rather than Rutgers you would also need USC to lose to UCLA. Roses for Iowa.
My username has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of my statements. Surely you are bright enough to figure this out.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cool down the ad hominems. I was making a comparison between an internet poster with nothing on the line to a storied college football coach and a university's athletic director both with their credibility on the line. They wouldn't say so if they didn't have a case as you suggest.
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>
Joe Paterno is hardly a neutral party. Surely you are not going to suggest that coaches don't sometimes conveniently overlook certain facts in their anger at other facts. And if Joe Paterno has so much credibility and integrity then why has he now has hung a referee in effigy on his front door? Those are the actions of a man acting out of anger while losing perspective on the situation. A shame really, many people have lost respect for him. He made it worse for himself by taking his bitching beyond the bounds of mere bitching and expanding it to include talk of conspiracies by officials based on the state they were from and other such X-Filesesque nonsense.
As far as the other plays, watch the tape yourself. Or you can read any number of editorials by neutral parties which point out the inconsistencies in his and your whining.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, you can provide them if you wish. But don't characterize me as whining. It's a favorite argument of the right and I don't want to see that kind of politics in football.
[quote]Cool down the ad hominems.<hr></blockquote>
lol. Look again. I credited you with having enough intelligence such that you would know how frivoluous a credibility attack is based on my username. I still believe that you possess enough intelligence to know better. Beyond that, sorry but you didn't get chosen to be a moderator so let someone else worry about such attacks.
[quote]They wouldn't say so if they didn't have a case as you suggest. <hr></blockquote>
If you haven't noted that human beings, even intellentigent and ethical ones, sometimes say stupid things when they get pissed off then you should study human behavior a bit more. They said so and there case was weak. True or false: both of the calls about which Paterno is complaining would not have even mattered had previous calls not gone incorrectly in PSU's favor? You saw the games (presumably). True or False: There is a reasonable basis to suspect and question the official's integrity on the presumption that they make prejudiced calls based on what state they are from?
[quote]You have obviously failed to read any stories about the hanging doll incidents like this one or this one or this one. It just shows your overwhelming bias in claiming that he lost any degree of credibility. The thing is that he hasn't- and so proves my point.<hr></blockquote>
So let's see, they are on his front door but he doesn't know who put them there. Riiiiiiiiiight. Additionally, he thinks the officiating issues are serious enough to warrant a formal investigation. Yet he thinks it is all just a funny joke and that he can a ref doll in effigy. Which is it?
He lost credibility the minute he started suggesting that officials were biased because they were from Michigan. He lost credibility the minute he touched a referee, an obvious no-no, over a missed call even though an even worse call had gone his way in the Iowa game that obviously cost Iowa a TD. His long history in the game is the only thing that saved him because if almost any other coach had done such things they would have been suspended for several games. He should be ecstatic that his unethical behavior has been ignored rather than punished as it should have been.
You whined. Sorry but you did. You mention that bad officiating cost PSU two games when in fact it did not. That is whining.
I don't see what politics has to do with it and in fact you are the one who brought it into the thread. But if it makes you feel any better, I voted for Gore.
You're right. His stats are very impressive, and he definitely should be in the running for the Heisman. I also agree with you that he probably won't be a serious contender because the Big 10 is underrated.
However, I would still argue that Banks deserves the Heisman more. He is second in the nation in quarterback rating. He averages 13 yards/run on called quarterback keepers. He only has 4 interceptions all season, and has been sacked only 11 times.
Hopefully the Big 10 will make a good showing in the bowls this year, so we can start building our reputation again. Good luck with Mich St. next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah hell, Banks wasn't ever good enough to start last year and now he's the best player in all of collge football? I don't think so, he has had an incredible year, but it is just one year.
I think some major credit (not to take away from Branks, just because credit is due) needs to be given to the Iowa line. I've seen QB get rushed quicker in a game of flag footbal with the 5 Mississippi Rule. Those guys are in charge.
Well, if none of you saw it on TV, my Hokies were just humiliated the third time in a row. It has me wondering how the hell they made it through the first 8 games... At this point, Groverat, i think you were overly generous towards tech. Looks like we will not only lose to Miami and UVA, but we have already lost to WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.
At this point, it should be really interesting to see who wins the number 2 spot in the Big East. My bets are for Pittsburgh.
Comments
<strong>
LJ is second in the nation for rushing yards and first and the nation in for all-purpose yards. He trails that Colorado RB by 6 yards for first in the nation in the former and is assured of surpassing him against Michigan State next week. Aye.... I don't know....at least for runningbacks he has to be the top contender.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right. His stats are very impressive, and he definitely should be in the running for the Heisman. I also agree with you that he probably won't be a serious contender because the Big 10 is underrated.
However, I would still argue that Banks deserves the Heisman more. He is second in the nation in quarterback rating. He averages 13 yards/run on called quarterback keepers. He only has 4 interceptions all season, and has been sacked only 11 times.
Hopefully the Big 10 will make a good showing in the bowls this year, so we can start building our reputation again. Good luck with Mich St. next week.
<strong>
Not sure what call you're talking about, but "down by contact" doesn't exist in college.
Iowa fans...
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point (possibly the first one ever by an IA State fan). I'm trying to remember the exact play. What I remeber (after a little more reflection) is this: During the first half, someone from Penn St. fumbled the ball, and the Hawks picked it up and ran it into the endzone. However, the touchdown was called back because the ref said the Penn St guy was down. Replays clearly showed he wasn't. If only we had challenged the play...oh, wait, college football doesn't have that either.
I apologize for my carelessness.
And just for good measure: Iowa State sucks.
And just for a laugh: Seneca Wallace for Heisman. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
We'll see you in (L)ames next year.
I've had respect for that team beaten into me week after week.
I take solice in the fact that the rest of my life I can say to my Hawkeye-fan friends, "Jeez, think what could have been for the Hawks in '02 if it wasn't for that second half against State!"
Jeff
<strong>Stop whining about the officiating. You can't have it both ways, you want to mention the calls that hurt Penn State while ignoring the ones that helped them. If both of those games are called correctly PSU still loses both. If the Iowa game is called correctly Iowa has another 7 points from the fumble earlier in the game which was an obvious blown call. They never get the game to overtime if the game is called right. The call at the end only allows them to continue a drive that would have still left them a touchdown behind. The call in the Michigan was subsequent to a 3rd down pass that was incomplete but mistakenly called complete. The missed out of bounds call never even happens without a previous error which kept the drive alive. In reality PSU would have punted and the game would have gone to OT anyway as it did. Yes calls were missed, but in both cases there were equally important calls that were made which went for PSU and gave them chances they did not deserve in the first place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Joe Paterno's and the Penn State Athletic director's credibility is a few thousand notches higher than some poster with "death" in his forum name, and they are "whining" about the calls. These so-called counter-calls you're talking about weren't reported as they would be since no one likes Penn State anyway. So I think you're talking out of your ass.
<strong>Penn State will get LSU or Florida or someone like that in the Citrus. I like Penn State's chances to win but they are not gonna smoke anyone. This is a team whose marquee win is over a 7-5 Nebraksa team. PSU has yet to beat or come close to smoking a good team.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hello? They were two bad calls and an interception away from being undefeated. They lost by a total of 16 pts with two games decided in overtime to THREE TOP 10 TEAMS. A team doesn't haven't to "smoke" anyone to win. That's what the BCS is for- so teams can't run up the score to the extent which they did pre-BCS and benefit as much from it. Hopefully the Big 10 will have a good bowl showing this year.
<strong>So big games this week Texas Tech at Oklamohoma, tomorrow, we have Pitt at Miami. If Miami loses, they don't even win the suck ass Big East. Miami and Ohio State are in the same position that way. Wouldn't that be a turn around. Washington State / Washington, Iowa has to be cheering for Washington as does every one else. I don't hink anybody thinks Washington should #3. The way they lost to Ohio State was ugly. The subs were in early. Well before the 3rd quarter ended. I don't know enough about the SEC to even guess what's going on but Georgia must have something going on. Oh ya ,USC / UCLA is happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cool. Do you think we could see an Ohio State- Iowa national championship game?
Coulda Shoulda Woulda Blah Blah Blah. Penn State is 0-3 versus currently ranked opponents (good teams). Therefore the statement made above that PSU will smoke any bowl team that they might potentially play (Citrus SEC/Outback SEC/Alamo Big 12) seems dubious.
[quote]Well, Joe Paterno's and the Penn State Athletic director's credibility is a few thousand notches higher than some poster with "death" in his forum name, and they are "whining" about the calls. These so-called counter-calls you're talking about weren't reported as they would be since no one likes Penn State anyway. So I think you're talking out of your ass.<hr></blockquote>
My username has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of my statements. Surely you are bright enough to figure this out.
Joe Paterno is hardly a neutral party. Surely you are not going to suggest that coaches don't sometimes conveniently overlook certain facts in their anger at other facts. And if Joe Paterno has so much credibility and integrity then why has he now has hung a referee in effigy on his front door? Those are the actions of a man acting out of anger while losing perspective on the situation. A shame really, many people have lost respect for him. He made it worse for himself by taking his bitching beyond the bounds of mere bitching and expanding it to include talk of conspiracies by officials based on the state they were from and other such X-Filesesque nonsense.
As far as the other plays, watch the tape yourself. Or you can read any number of editorials by neutral parties which point out the inconsistencies in his and your whining.
[ 11-20-2002: Message edited by: ColanderOfDeath ]</p>
<strong>
My username has no bearing on the truth or lack thereof of my statements. Surely you are bright enough to figure this out.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cool down the ad hominems. I was making a comparison between an internet poster with nothing on the line to a storied college football coach and a university's athletic director both with their credibility on the line. They wouldn't say so if they didn't have a case as you suggest.
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>
Joe Paterno is hardly a neutral party. Surely you are not going to suggest that coaches don't sometimes conveniently overlook certain facts in their anger at other facts. And if Joe Paterno has so much credibility and integrity then why has he now has hung a referee in effigy on his front door? Those are the actions of a man acting out of anger while losing perspective on the situation. A shame really, many people have lost respect for him. He made it worse for himself by taking his bitching beyond the bounds of mere bitching and expanding it to include talk of conspiracies by officials based on the state they were from and other such X-Filesesque nonsense.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have obviously failed to read any stories about the hanging doll incidents like <a href="http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2002/1111/1459126.html"; target="_blank">this one</a> or <a href="http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2002/1112/1459958.html"; target="_blank">this one</a> or <a href="http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2002/1119/1463185.html"; target="_blank">this one</a>. It just shows your overwhelming bias in claiming that he lost any degree of credibility. The thing is that he hasn't- and so proves my point.
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>
As far as the other plays, watch the tape yourself. Or you can read any number of editorials by neutral parties which point out the inconsistencies in his and your whining.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, you can provide them if you wish. But don't characterize me as whining. It's a favorite argument of the right and I don't want to see that kind of politics in football.
lol. Look again. I credited you with having enough intelligence such that you would know how frivoluous a credibility attack is based on my username. I still believe that you possess enough intelligence to know better. Beyond that, sorry but you didn't get chosen to be a moderator so let someone else worry about such attacks.
[quote]They wouldn't say so if they didn't have a case as you suggest. <hr></blockquote>
If you haven't noted that human beings, even intellentigent and ethical ones, sometimes say stupid things when they get pissed off then you should study human behavior a bit more. They said so and there case was weak. True or false: both of the calls about which Paterno is complaining would not have even mattered had previous calls not gone incorrectly in PSU's favor? You saw the games (presumably). True or False: There is a reasonable basis to suspect and question the official's integrity on the presumption that they make prejudiced calls based on what state they are from?
[quote]You have obviously failed to read any stories about the hanging doll incidents like this one or this one or this one. It just shows your overwhelming bias in claiming that he lost any degree of credibility. The thing is that he hasn't- and so proves my point.<hr></blockquote>
So let's see, they are on his front door but he doesn't know who put them there. Riiiiiiiiiight. Additionally, he thinks the officiating issues are serious enough to warrant a formal investigation. Yet he thinks it is all just a funny joke and that he can a ref doll in effigy. Which is it?
He lost credibility the minute he started suggesting that officials were biased because they were from Michigan. He lost credibility the minute he touched a referee, an obvious no-no, over a missed call even though an even worse call had gone his way in the Iowa game that obviously cost Iowa a TD. His long history in the game is the only thing that saved him because if almost any other coach had done such things they would have been suspended for several games. He should be ecstatic that his unethical behavior has been ignored rather than punished as it should have been.
You whined. Sorry but you did. You mention that bad officiating cost PSU two games when in fact it did not. That is whining.
I don't see what politics has to do with it and in fact you are the one who brought it into the thread. But if it makes you feel any better, I voted for Gore.
<strong>
You're right. His stats are very impressive, and he definitely should be in the running for the Heisman. I also agree with you that he probably won't be a serious contender because the Big 10 is underrated.
However, I would still argue that Banks deserves the Heisman more. He is second in the nation in quarterback rating. He averages 13 yards/run on called quarterback keepers. He only has 4 interceptions all season, and has been sacked only 11 times.
Hopefully the Big 10 will make a good showing in the bowls this year, so we can start building our reputation again. Good luck with Mich St. next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah hell, Banks wasn't ever good enough to start last year and now he's the best player in all of collge football? I don't think so, he has had an incredible year, but it is just one year.
I think some major credit (not to take away from Branks, just because credit is due) needs to be given to the Iowa line. I've seen QB get rushed quicker in a game of flag footbal with the 5 Mississippi Rule. Those guys are in charge.
At this point, it should be really interesting to see who wins the number 2 spot in the Big East. My bets are for Pittsburgh.
[ 11-21-2002: Message edited by: chweave1 ]</p>