That Apple won't be using, unlike what people figured back in aught seven when that one carbon fiber laptop came out.
Whatever that was. Was it a Sony? It looked terrible is all I remember.
First, I don't doubt the Apple won't be using carbon fiber due to the expense, and since it's a man made material, it doesn't jive with Apple's green initiative, either. However, you're referring to the look of raw carbon fiber. Carbon fiber can be covered in paint as well as other treatments, such as dying the resin. A touch of carbon fiber looks good. Too much of it looks like a dog's arse, I agree.
1) No ODD, a given. (Anyone still expecting Apple to add Blu-ray at this point? lol)
2) This make happen. They do have a patent for this and it might make since even if it's just a single-platter 2.5" HDD with SSD optimized for the instant startup from sleep like in the MBAs.
3) I'd expect that in the MBPs.
4) Not likely. I have yet to see any CF that is as rigid as milled alumnium alloy for the thickness Apple uses in the MBA.
5) I think LiquidMetal could be used, but only is sections, like maybe the hinge, not for the entire shell.
6) Absolutely will be thinner.
7) I sure hope so. Would make Find My Mac much more useful. As it stands right now I keep an unlocked, standard account I have labeled as "Admin" just in case someone does take my MBP. Hopefully this will get them to log in with in and get online at which point (hopefully) I can then figure out where they are. Without having them be able to agree to public WiFI splash pages or input private WiFi passwords Find My Mac is useless without GSP and 3G).
That Apple won't be using, unlike what people figured back in aught seven when that one carbon fiber laptop came out.
Whatever that was. Was it a Sony? It looked terrible is all I remember.
If Apple ruled out every material that someone has made an ugly computer out of, there wouldn't be any options left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24
First, I don't doubt the Apple won't be using carbon fiber due to the expense, and since it's a man made material, it doesn't jive with Apple's green initiative, either. However, you're referring to the look of raw carbon fiber. Carbon fiber can be covered in paint as well as other treatments, such as dying the resin. A touch of carbon fiber looks good. Too much of it looks like a dog's arse, I agree.
Actually, you'd be mistaken. Carbon fiber probably has less impact on the environment than aluminum.
MacBook Air line: 11", 13" and 15" models, razor-thin, SSD-only, soldered RAM, integrated graphics.
MacBook Pro line: 13", 15" and 17" models, slightly thicker, (slimline) 2.5" SSD or HDD, upgradable RAM, discrete GPU w/ dedicated VRAM, more connectivity (FireWire at least through 2012), SD slot, hopefully ExpressCard on the 17", but I fear that's out.
Actually, you'd be mistaken. Carbon fiber probably has less impact on the environment than aluminum.
No, I wouldn't. Carbon fiber, as we call it, is actually a composite. It's not pure carbon fiber. It's mixed with fiberglas and or Kevlar, sometimes, and plastic resins. The product is actually considered "carbon fiber reinforced plastic". Recycling of the carbon fiber, itself, is possible, but not very plausible.
Aluminum recycling is a very much an everyday affair that's inexpensive and practically indefinite for the resource. That makes the use of aluminum much more green, despite the mining needed to make it. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) 75% of all aluminum produced since 1988 is still in use today, thanks to recycling. Aluminum is also the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth, behind silicon and oxygen.
1) No ODD, a given. (Anyone still expecting Apple to add Blu-ray at this point? lol)
2) This make happen. They do have a patent for this and it might make since even if it's just a single-platter 2.5" HDD with SSD optimized for the instant startup from sleep like in the MBAs.6) 6)Absolutely will be thinner.
I think a 128, 256 or 512 SSD soldered to the board and a 1 or 2TB drive w/no ODD would be the right approach. The new Ivy Bridge chips should be a significant step down in power usage, but I still don't think they will want to shrink the case much. Similar shape to now, but a bit thinner. If they slop it at all, it won't be the severe wedge of the MBA.
If the new Ivy Bridge chips have the much lower TDP that we have been hearing they will, there won't be a reason to put ULVs in the MBA anymore and we can see very thin designs using regular processors. That means that either Apple is going to have to do things like: 1) the SSD/HDD pairing, more RAM and longer battery life due to more space for battery to differentiate and maintain their current prices, 2) Lower prices on the 15 and 17" models or 3) Combine the MBA and MBP into a single line. The 11" would have 1 model, the 17" would have 1 model and the 13 and 15 would have 2 each, one a bit more lightweight and MBA-like and the other more like the current Pro offerings. Same body type for all, better resolutions, the 11 and 13 would still have the built in graphics and the 15 and 17 would have discrete options.
Oh yeah, we'll also see 3 USB 3.0, 2 Thunderbolt and a SDXC card slot on the 15 and 17" models, 2 USB and 1 TB on the 11 and 13". No more Firewire, that will be included on the TB display or new external hub you can hook up. The 15 or 17 might retain FW for 2012.
Short or long term? How about the resin used with the CF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24
No, I wouldn't. Carbon fiber, as we call it, is actually a composite. It's not pure carbon fiber. It's mixed with fiberglas and or Kevlar, sometimes, and plastic resins. The product is actually considered "carbon fiber reinforced plastic". Recycling of the carbon fiber, itself, is possible, but not very plausible.
Aluminum recycling is a very much an everyday affair that's inexpensive and practically indefinite for the resource. That makes the use of aluminum much more green, despite the mining needed to make it. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) 75% of all aluminum produced since 1988 is still in use today, thanks to recycling. Aluminum is also the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth, behind silicon and oxygen.
Those are both very short-sighted views.
Recycling isn't the only thing that matters. The amount of energy needed to recycle aluminum is very high - and the amount to make virgin aluminum is even higher. When you consider that 100% recycling is not possible, it is quite likely that the energy input into an aluminum shell is far greater than a carbon fiber shell. And that doesn't even consider the environmental damaged caused by bauxite mines.
And don't try to lecture me on what carbon fiber composites are made of. I've actually produced some. Have you?
I gotta say: I love my mac pro! Iv'e got 2, 1tb hard drives mirrored for data security, an ssd drive to boot From, upgraded, the ram, put in a lacie USB 3 card and have room for a thunderbolt card, should one ever come available!! This unit should last me for years!!
I gotta say: I love my mac pro! Iv'e got 2, 1tb hard drives mirrored for data security, an ssd drive to boot From, upgraded, the ram, put in a lacie USB 3 card and have room for a thunderbolt card, should one ever come available!! This unit should last me for years!!
1. You don't have room for a Thunderbolt card unless you plan to take out that USB 3 card.
2. There will never ever be a Thunderbolt card, as Thunderbolt must be put on the motherboard and requires all parts of the spec (including graphics support) to be available to any ports.
3. And if you're actually talking about the Mac Pro, you're in the wrong place.
Recycling isn't the only thing that matters. The amount of energy needed to recycle aluminum is very high - and the amount to make virgin aluminum is even higher. When you consider that 100% recycling is not possible, it is quite likely that the energy input into an aluminum shell is far greater than a carbon fiber shell. And that doesn't even consider the environmental damaged caused by bauxite mines.
And don't try to lecture me on what carbon fiber composites are made of. I've actually produced some. Have you?
Good to see you know what goes into it. No one seems to have responded regarding thermodynamic properties of aluminum. In a small enclosure aluminum will draw a lot of heat away from critical components. That seemed to be a crucial element of the macbook pro and air design. If they plan on going thinner, I find it hard to believe that they'd simultaneously give up the ability to use the shell as a secondary heat sink.
I would expect to see Apple place profits over environmental concern, regardless of which is considered greener.
then in that case, I'll take mine with the unobtanium case, 2TB of SSD, retina display, and backlit keyboard with massaging wrist rests.
Where's your imagination? that will most be exceeded in my lifetime let alone in my kids. Try something like 'iBrain', Apple Quantum Limitless 'hard' drive surgically inserted and attached to your spine with complete spinal/neural interface, constant mobile internet connection, true augmented reality with overlay from the images received along the optic nerve as well as audio overlay for turn by turn directions when walking or running anywhere. Want to switch off the world? You can do that and watch a movie matrix style.
One more thing... take pictures with your eyes and email them to your friends.
The AIR being thin will require a lower wattage processor so right there you wil have significant differentation with the MBP. Ivy Bridge will still come with processors rated for a range of performance. Hopefully a standard laptop processor will operate withing the power range an AUR can handle but this will effectively be a slower processor.
Then you have the whole question of a discreet GPU. Id like to see a 15" AIR with one but I kinda doubt it will happen. So if you want high performance GPUs you will likely have to go MBP. There are other things that come into play but in the end the MBP would be significantly different than the 15" AIR. I just want to throw water on the idea that a 15" AIR automatically replaces the MBP.
To be honest I'm not sure which one I'd buy if they where both on the market. I honestly believe the GPU in my MBP keeps the machine viable longer. That old 2008 would be rather pathetic if it was running Intel graphics right now. If they go retina I suspect a discreet GPU would be required.
This mythical machine would also require substantial internal storage capability. Ideally a minimal of 3 blade slots.
This mythical machine would also require substantial internal storage capability. Ideally a minimal of 3 blade slots.
Blade being those new SSDs that Apple uses in the current Air, right? Not sure what else you'd mean by 'blade', but the thought of having three slots seems incredibly silly to me, so I thought I'd check.
Comments
And why do you say carbon fiber is a dead end in computers? It's just another material.
That Apple won't be using, unlike what people figured back in aught seven when that one carbon fiber laptop came out.
Whatever that was. Was it a Sony? It looked terrible is all I remember.
That Apple won't be using, unlike what people figured back in aught seven when that one carbon fiber laptop came out.
Whatever that was. Was it a Sony? It looked terrible is all I remember.
First, I don't doubt the Apple won't be using carbon fiber due to the expense, and since it's a man made material, it doesn't jive with Apple's green initiative, either. However, you're referring to the look of raw carbon fiber. Carbon fiber can be covered in paint as well as other treatments, such as dying the resin. A touch of carbon fiber looks good. Too much of it looks like a dog's arse, I agree.
- without DVD Rom ?
- Hybrid SSD + HDD mode ?
- Discrete Graphics ?
- Carbon Fibre Lid ?
- Liquid Metal uniBody ?
- Slimmer design ?
- 3G Internet Connection ?
1) No ODD, a given. (Anyone still expecting Apple to add Blu-ray at this point? lol)
2) This make happen. They do have a patent for this and it might make since even if it's just a single-platter 2.5" HDD with SSD optimized for the instant startup from sleep like in the MBAs.
3) I'd expect that in the MBPs.
4) Not likely. I have yet to see any CF that is as rigid as milled alumnium alloy for the thickness Apple uses in the MBA.
5) I think LiquidMetal could be used, but only is sections, like maybe the hinge, not for the entire shell.
6) Absolutely will be thinner.
7) I sure hope so. Would make Find My Mac much more useful. As it stands right now I keep an unlocked, standard account I have labeled as "Admin" just in case someone does take my MBP. Hopefully this will get them to log in with in and get online at which point (hopefully) I can then figure out where they are. Without having them be able to agree to public WiFI splash pages or input private WiFi passwords Find My Mac is useless without GSP and 3G).
That Apple won't be using, unlike what people figured back in aught seven when that one carbon fiber laptop came out.
Whatever that was. Was it a Sony? It looked terrible is all I remember.
If Apple ruled out every material that someone has made an ugly computer out of, there wouldn't be any options left.
First, I don't doubt the Apple won't be using carbon fiber due to the expense, and since it's a man made material, it doesn't jive with Apple's green initiative, either. However, you're referring to the look of raw carbon fiber. Carbon fiber can be covered in paint as well as other treatments, such as dying the resin. A touch of carbon fiber looks good. Too much of it looks like a dog's arse, I agree.
Actually, you'd be mistaken. Carbon fiber probably has less impact on the environment than aluminum.
Actually, you'd be mistaken. Carbon fiber probably has less impact on the environment than aluminum.
Short or long term? How about the resin used with the CF?
MacBook Pro line: 13", 15" and 17" models, slightly thicker, (slimline) 2.5" SSD or HDD, upgradable RAM, discrete GPU w/ dedicated VRAM, more connectivity (FireWire at least through 2012), SD slot, hopefully ExpressCard on the 17", but I fear that's out.
.tsooJ
Actually, you'd be mistaken. Carbon fiber probably has less impact on the environment than aluminum.
No, I wouldn't. Carbon fiber, as we call it, is actually a composite. It's not pure carbon fiber. It's mixed with fiberglas and or Kevlar, sometimes, and plastic resins. The product is actually considered "carbon fiber reinforced plastic". Recycling of the carbon fiber, itself, is possible, but not very plausible.
Aluminum recycling is a very much an everyday affair that's inexpensive and practically indefinite for the resource. That makes the use of aluminum much more green, despite the mining needed to make it. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) 75% of all aluminum produced since 1988 is still in use today, thanks to recycling. Aluminum is also the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth, behind silicon and oxygen.
1) No ODD, a given. (Anyone still expecting Apple to add Blu-ray at this point? lol)
2) This make happen. They do have a patent for this and it might make since even if it's just a single-platter 2.5" HDD with SSD optimized for the instant startup from sleep like in the MBAs.6) 6)Absolutely will be thinner.
Really ugly and obviously a desktop design, but there are things like this out there: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/01/o...b-hdd-for-499/
I think a 128, 256 or 512 SSD soldered to the board and a 1 or 2TB drive w/no ODD would be the right approach. The new Ivy Bridge chips should be a significant step down in power usage, but I still don't think they will want to shrink the case much. Similar shape to now, but a bit thinner. If they slop it at all, it won't be the severe wedge of the MBA.
If the new Ivy Bridge chips have the much lower TDP that we have been hearing they will, there won't be a reason to put ULVs in the MBA anymore and we can see very thin designs using regular processors. That means that either Apple is going to have to do things like: 1) the SSD/HDD pairing, more RAM and longer battery life due to more space for battery to differentiate and maintain their current prices, 2) Lower prices on the 15 and 17" models or 3) Combine the MBA and MBP into a single line. The 11" would have 1 model, the 17" would have 1 model and the 13 and 15 would have 2 each, one a bit more lightweight and MBA-like and the other more like the current Pro offerings. Same body type for all, better resolutions, the 11 and 13 would still have the built in graphics and the 15 and 17 would have discrete options.
Oh yeah, we'll also see 3 USB 3.0, 2 Thunderbolt and a SDXC card slot on the 15 and 17" models, 2 USB and 1 TB on the 11 and 13". No more Firewire, that will be included on the TB display or new external hub you can hook up. The 15 or 17 might retain FW for 2012.
Short or long term? How about the resin used with the CF?
No, I wouldn't. Carbon fiber, as we call it, is actually a composite. It's not pure carbon fiber. It's mixed with fiberglas and or Kevlar, sometimes, and plastic resins. The product is actually considered "carbon fiber reinforced plastic". Recycling of the carbon fiber, itself, is possible, but not very plausible.
Aluminum recycling is a very much an everyday affair that's inexpensive and practically indefinite for the resource. That makes the use of aluminum much more green, despite the mining needed to make it. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) 75% of all aluminum produced since 1988 is still in use today, thanks to recycling. Aluminum is also the 3rd most abundant element on the Earth, behind silicon and oxygen.
Those are both very short-sighted views.
Recycling isn't the only thing that matters. The amount of energy needed to recycle aluminum is very high - and the amount to make virgin aluminum is even higher. When you consider that 100% recycling is not possible, it is quite likely that the energy input into an aluminum shell is far greater than a carbon fiber shell. And that doesn't even consider the environmental damaged caused by bauxite mines.
And don't try to lecture me on what carbon fiber composites are made of. I've actually produced some. Have you?
I gotta say: I love my mac pro! Iv'e got 2, 1tb hard drives mirrored for data security, an ssd drive to boot From, upgraded, the ram, put in a lacie USB 3 card and have room for a thunderbolt card, should one ever come available!! This unit should last me for years!!
1. You don't have room for a Thunderbolt card unless you plan to take out that USB 3 card.
2. There will never ever be a Thunderbolt card, as Thunderbolt must be put on the motherboard and requires all parts of the spec (including graphics support) to be available to any ports.
3. And if you're actually talking about the Mac Pro, you're in the wrong place.
Those are both very short-sighted views.
Recycling isn't the only thing that matters. The amount of energy needed to recycle aluminum is very high - and the amount to make virgin aluminum is even higher. When you consider that 100% recycling is not possible, it is quite likely that the energy input into an aluminum shell is far greater than a carbon fiber shell. And that doesn't even consider the environmental damaged caused by bauxite mines.
And don't try to lecture me on what carbon fiber composites are made of. I've actually produced some. Have you?
Good to see you know what goes into it. No one seems to have responded regarding thermodynamic properties of aluminum. In a small enclosure aluminum will draw a lot of heat away from critical components. That seemed to be a crucial element of the macbook pro and air design. If they plan on going thinner, I find it hard to believe that they'd simultaneously give up the ability to use the shell as a secondary heat sink.
I would expect to see Apple place profits over environmental concern, regardless of which is considered greener.
then in that case, I'll take mine with the unobtanium case, 2TB of SSD, retina display, and backlit keyboard with massaging wrist rests.
Where's your imagination?
One more thing... take pictures with your eyes and email them to your friends.
Keep dreaming, kid.
I will keep dreaming. I'm no kid though.
Then you have the whole question of a discreet GPU. Id like to see a 15" AIR with one but I kinda doubt it will happen. So if you want high performance GPUs you will likely have to go MBP. There are other things that come into play but in the end the MBP would be significantly different than the 15" AIR. I just want to throw water on the idea that a 15" AIR automatically replaces the MBP.
To be honest I'm not sure which one I'd buy if they where both on the market. I honestly believe the GPU in my MBP keeps the machine viable longer. That old 2008 would be rather pathetic if it was running Intel graphics right now. If they go retina I suspect a discreet GPU would be required.
This mythical machine would also require substantial internal storage capability. Ideally a minimal of 3 blade slots.
This mythical machine would also require substantial internal storage capability. Ideally a minimal of 3 blade slots.
Blade being those new SSDs that Apple uses in the current Air, right? Not sure what else you'd mean by 'blade', but the thought of having three slots seems incredibly silly to me, so I thought I'd check.