and I realize we have a fair share of "trolls" who exist herein to declaim that "someone else has already done this", or "Apple copies", or "it's not innovative" or we had that back in [name your decade], etc.
The reality however is that Apple looks at what a sensible and easy to use interface would act like and builds around those targets. Which is why, for example, the touch UI is foremost in processing in the iOS system, unlike other touch interfaces. Likewise first to the market with a concept doesn't make the concept practical, workable or easy to use. It's sweating the details that does that - which is Apple's bread and butter approach to things.
Now, instead of focussing on JUST using touch, or air gestures, or voice, or classical user interfaces (keyboard/pointing devices), picture a simple, easy to use blend of these interfaces: intellient agent (IA) voice controls and dictation scaled to how you want to use them, combined with air gestures, combined with tradition inputs and touch. You recombine these tools to do whichever combination best suits what you are doing at the moment. If you are doing a 3D model, then using air gestures and IA/voice (think Ironman/Tony Stark's AI JARVIS, using keyboard and other inputs only as needed. You can manipulate the model in virtual 3D (and if the ability to do inexpensive holo projection - in real 3D). Likewise, if you want to initiate a digital connection with a friend you could have your IA make the connection, but then you would disconnect via tactile interface.
All of this assumes that the capacity to support true IA/AI moves from large hardware to small hardware somehow - via cloud support, or by vastly improving the logic that underpins IA/AI, or some other means. But it will be and should be a BLENDED interface, easily customized to the individual, again on target for Apple, which has driven simple user interface from almost the beginning.
...first to the market with a concept doesn't make the concept practical, workable or easy to use. It's sweating the details that does that - which is Apple's bread and butter approach to things.
bingo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy
But it will be and should be a BLENDED interface, easily customized to the individual, again on target for Apple, which has driven simple user interface from almost the beginning.
Apple builds incredibly simple interfaces, but customizable? Steve thought he knew a better way for us to do everything. personal preference hasn't been a factor in Apple's design. i'm amazed i don't have to use felt tip [anymore] to view notes on my iPhone.
the key that i assume Apple has figured out is how to use - and track - small movements to eliminate user fatigue. that's the biggest obstacle in gesture controls. i'm not going to be flapping my arms and neck around 10 hours a day to use Creative Suite.
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software. Instead of reacting to changes in a dot pattern, Apple could analyze the camera image directly. They already have years of experience with face recognition in iPhoto, and that could be extrapolated into hand / arm / leg / finger recognition too.
I think Apple could actually one-up Microsoft, since the Kinect dots don't seem to be close enough together to detect individual finger positions. This will be interesting.
Microsoft did not invent the motion controls in Kinect, they licensed the technology from Prime Sense. Prime Sense is not owned by or controlled by Microsoft and licenses its technology to any company willing to pay.
Really?
: I use to think only someone stupid will sell that intellectual proprietary.
: So they approached Apple, and Apple said NO, we are not interested?
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software. Instead of reacting to changes in a dot pattern, Apple could analyze the camera image directly. They already have years of experience with face recognition in iPhoto, and that could be extrapolated into hand / arm / leg / finger recognition too.
I think Apple could actually one-up Microsoft, since the Kinect dots don't seem to be close enough together to detect individual finger positions. This will be interesting.
I think you'll find kinect uses both, the infared dots are also producing a 3d model, something that is not possible to such accuracy with just an image.
The kinect sensor is also sensative enough to detect fingures. There's some videos around of it recognising sign language and someone else built a visual studio add to to type code using it.
On the Xbox its biggest limiting factors are making sure it uses hardly any processing power as that's needed for the actual games, and delays at pushing buttons are all about making sure the user really wanted to press it.
I think you'll find kinect uses both, the infared dots are also producing a 3d model, something that is not possible to such accuracy with just an image.
The kinect sensor is also sensative enough to detect fingures. There's some videos around of it recognising sign language and someone else built a visual studio add to to type code using it.
On the Xbox its biggest limiting factors are making sure it uses hardly any processing power as that's needed for the actual games, and delays at pushing buttons are all about making sure the user really wanted to press it.
The other huge limitation of Kinect is USB 2.0. Kinect 2 (rumoured to be due late-2012 or early-2013) will not have this.
Who said it was "entirely new"? Are you making up quotes or just building a straw man?
How about you actually READ the associate article before posting such nonsensical comments: HINT: It's in the very first line...
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact with and control their Mac, with a new system allowing users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space."
Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact with and control their Mac, with a new system allowing users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space.
Once Apple releases this, Microsoft will scramble to copy it. But Apple will be years ahead, so they won't ever catch up.
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software..
You clearly do not understand how Kinect works. There is significant and powerful software powering the device. Many articles have been posted written about it. The raw data is receives from the IR sensor is meaningless without the software they have to process it.
Nice and all, but how's this 'entirely new' if MS' Kinect already allows "users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space" as a substitute for device input/controllers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84
It just is!!! Anyone that know anything about Apple knows that they invented this in August and were the first to invent it. __snip__ you can see how they copies Apple your just an idiot!!!
You don't get it... This happens all the time.
Patent Award #1 was based on ... usually prior art ////
Patent Award #2 was based on #1 however is an 'invention' due to it's uniqueness.
Patent Award #3,4,5,6,7 etc etc etc are all based on 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc etc etc
This is why you read about patent lawsuits and say.... "how could they have a patent when WE know _____ was done YEARS before in _____". These kind of patents are ways companies try and protect themselves from one another. Some make it thru some don't. None the less, It's always worth trying. All one needs to do is word the application in such a way that it compiles with the definition of 'invention' as defined by the patent office.
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software.
What you're explaining is almost exactly the same thing. In both cases the software is monitoring images generated from a camera.
The Kinect's infrared dot array is just running at a relatively low resolution compared to a modern camera.
The API into the Kinect is actually pretty advanced. For example, a developer is able to access the raw Kinect data, but they can also receive "skeletal" updates (i.e. Kinect converts the raw data into virtual skeletons)
The rumour is that Kinect 2 (due next year for PC only) will add finger tracking, lip reading and "emotion detection" into the Kinect API.
I assume this will be made possible by increasing the number of dots in Kinect's infrared dot array.
I think the fanboy mindset tends to hamper a lot of the good discussions on this board.
Kinect has a head start on Apple on this technology, not only in the adoption of it, but also go to market. Keep in mind, the Kinect is THE fastest selling product - something like 8 million units in 2 months (per Guiness). So it's definitely got not only the groundbreaking factor, but cool as well.
I'm not sure if any of you guys actually own the XBOX with Kinect. I do.
And with the new XBOX Live (OS) upgrade this last week, it's pretty much you were thinking Siri would do for TV but also with Gesture AND Voice control.
I will concede it's not TOTALLY there yet, I'd give it another 3 to 6 months when the content finally is up and running, but with XBOX and Comcast partnered up, it's may be what Apple HDTV will be... except without the Apple.
Comments
The reality however is that Apple looks at what a sensible and easy to use interface would act like and builds around those targets. Which is why, for example, the touch UI is foremost in processing in the iOS system, unlike other touch interfaces. Likewise first to the market with a concept doesn't make the concept practical, workable or easy to use. It's sweating the details that does that - which is Apple's bread and butter approach to things.
Now, instead of focussing on JUST using touch, or air gestures, or voice, or classical user interfaces (keyboard/pointing devices), picture a simple, easy to use blend of these interfaces: intellient agent (IA) voice controls and dictation scaled to how you want to use them, combined with air gestures, combined with tradition inputs and touch. You recombine these tools to do whichever combination best suits what you are doing at the moment. If you are doing a 3D model, then using air gestures and IA/voice (think Ironman/Tony Stark's AI JARVIS, using keyboard and other inputs only as needed. You can manipulate the model in virtual 3D (and if the ability to do inexpensive holo projection - in real 3D). Likewise, if you want to initiate a digital connection with a friend you could have your IA make the connection, but then you would disconnect via tactile interface.
All of this assumes that the capacity to support true IA/AI moves from large hardware to small hardware somehow - via cloud support, or by vastly improving the logic that underpins IA/AI, or some other means. But it will be and should be a BLENDED interface, easily customized to the individual, again on target for Apple, which has driven simple user interface from almost the beginning.
...first to the market with a concept doesn't make the concept practical, workable or easy to use. It's sweating the details that does that - which is Apple's bread and butter approach to things.
bingo.
But it will be and should be a BLENDED interface, easily customized to the individual, again on target for Apple, which has driven simple user interface from almost the beginning.
Apple builds incredibly simple interfaces, but customizable? Steve thought he knew a better way for us to do everything. personal preference hasn't been a factor in Apple's design. i'm amazed i don't have to use felt tip [anymore] to view notes on my iPhone.
the key that i assume Apple has figured out is how to use - and track - small movements to eliminate user fatigue. that's the biggest obstacle in gesture controls. i'm not going to be flapping my arms and neck around 10 hours a day to use Creative Suite.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software. Instead of reacting to changes in a dot pattern, Apple could analyze the camera image directly. They already have years of experience with face recognition in iPhoto, and that could be extrapolated into hand / arm / leg / finger recognition too.
I think Apple could actually one-up Microsoft, since the Kinect dots don't seem to be close enough together to detect individual finger positions. This will be interesting.
It's the very first line of the AI article.
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact. . ."
Wow, yes it is. I knew I shouldn't be posting so early in the morning. My bad.
Microsoft did not invent the motion controls in Kinect, they licensed the technology from Prime Sense. Prime Sense is not owned by or controlled by Microsoft and licenses its technology to any company willing to pay.
Really?
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software. Instead of reacting to changes in a dot pattern, Apple could analyze the camera image directly. They already have years of experience with face recognition in iPhoto, and that could be extrapolated into hand / arm / leg / finger recognition too.
I think Apple could actually one-up Microsoft, since the Kinect dots don't seem to be close enough together to detect individual finger positions. This will be interesting.
I think you'll find kinect uses both, the infared dots are also producing a 3d model, something that is not possible to such accuracy with just an image.
The kinect sensor is also sensative enough to detect fingures. There's some videos around of it recognising sign language and someone else built a visual studio add to to type code using it.
On the Xbox its biggest limiting factors are making sure it uses hardly any processing power as that's needed for the actual games, and delays at pushing buttons are all about making sure the user really wanted to press it.
It's the very first line of the AI article.
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact. . ."
I think you'll find kinect uses both, the infared dots are also producing a 3d model, something that is not possible to such accuracy with just an image.
The kinect sensor is also sensative enough to detect fingures. There's some videos around of it recognising sign language and someone else built a visual studio add to to type code using it.
On the Xbox its biggest limiting factors are making sure it uses hardly any processing power as that's needed for the actual games, and delays at pushing buttons are all about making sure the user really wanted to press it.
The other huge limitation of Kinect is USB 2.0. Kinect 2 (rumoured to be due late-2012 or early-2013) will not have this.
It's the very first line of the AI article.
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact. . ."
Keep reading:
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact with and control their Mac?
AFAIK nobody else is doing this for Mac. Pedantic, I know, but the article author wasn?t claiming it was entirely new for everybody, just for Mac.
Who said it was "entirely new"? Are you making up quotes or just building a straw man?
How about you actually READ the associate article before posting such nonsensical comments: HINT: It's in the very first line...
"Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact with and control their Mac, with a new system allowing users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space."
Apple has shown interest in an entirely new way for users to interact with and control their Mac, with a new system allowing users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space.
Once Apple releases this, Microsoft will scramble to copy it. But Apple will be years ahead, so they won't ever catch up.
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software..
You clearly do not understand how Kinect works. There is significant and powerful software powering the device. Many articles have been posted written about it. The raw data is receives from the IR sensor is meaningless without the software they have to process it.
Nice and all, but how's this 'entirely new' if MS' Kinect already allows "users to perform gestures with their hands in a three-dimensional space" as a substitute for device input/controllers?
It just is!!! Anyone that know anything about Apple knows that they invented this in August and were the first to invent it. __snip__ you can see how they copies Apple your just an idiot!!!
You don't get it... This happens all the time.
Patent Award #1 was based on ... usually prior art ////
Patent Award #2 was based on #1 however is an 'invention' due to it's uniqueness.
Patent Award #3,4,5,6,7 etc etc etc are all based on 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc etc etc
This is why you read about patent lawsuits and say.... "how could they have a patent when WE know _____ was done YEARS before in _____". These kind of patents are ways companies try and protect themselves from one another. Some make it thru some don't. None the less, It's always worth trying. All one needs to do is word the application in such a way that it compiles with the definition of 'invention' as defined by the patent office.
But it will be and should be a BLENDED interface, easily customized to the individual...
I haven't played with it myself yet but the new Xbox dashboard can be controlled with the traditional controller, voice and Kinect gestures.
Each input method by itself isn't great but used together they work quite well.
Kinect's motion detection uses a brute-force method. It projects thousands of infrared laser dots throughout the room, then detects changes in the patterns of dots as you move. Complex hardware, simple software.
Apple's approach will most likely be the exact opposite: simple hardware, complex software. Just a small camera with advanced image-recognition software.
What you're explaining is almost exactly the same thing. In both cases the software is monitoring images generated from a camera.
The Kinect's infrared dot array is just running at a relatively low resolution compared to a modern camera.
The API into the Kinect is actually pretty advanced. For example, a developer is able to access the raw Kinect data, but they can also receive "skeletal" updates (i.e. Kinect converts the raw data into virtual skeletons)
The rumour is that Kinect 2 (due next year for PC only) will add finger tracking, lip reading and "emotion detection" into the Kinect API.
I assume this will be made possible by increasing the number of dots in Kinect's infrared dot array.
Kinect has a head start on Apple on this technology, not only in the adoption of it, but also go to market. Keep in mind, the Kinect is THE fastest selling product - something like 8 million units in 2 months (per Guiness). So it's definitely got not only the groundbreaking factor, but cool as well.
I'm not sure if any of you guys actually own the XBOX with Kinect. I do.
And with the new XBOX Live (OS) upgrade this last week, it's pretty much you were thinking Siri would do for TV but also with Gesture AND Voice control.
I will concede it's not TOTALLY there yet, I'd give it another 3 to 6 months when the content finally is up and running, but with XBOX and Comcast partnered up, it's may be what Apple HDTV will be... except without the Apple.
So when you flip the bird, will it close the application or will it shut down?
Or flip you back?