Me being against any company that supports an entity that is ultimately bad for innovation as their sole purpose is generating income as opposed to protecting IP is the same as me wanting Apple dead and gone.
Please give one example of a so-called 'patent troll' being anti-innovation. One clear, obvious example of a non-manufacturing entity stifling innovation. Apple put the multi-touch smartphone out amidst numerous non-manufacturing entities holding patents for all kinds of technologies. The same goes for the iPad. 'Patent trolls' sure didn't keep them from changing (or more correctly, creating) those markets.
With companies holding patents, a product will hit the marketplace before the 'patent trolls' do anything. That isn't innovation preventing. The product hitting the marketplace showcases the innovation. I can see copycat companies (read: Google, HTC, Samsung) doing far, FAR more to prevent innovation by parroting a cutting edge company's products for their own gain without bringing anything innovative into the mix.
Please give one example of a so-called 'patent troll' being anti-innovation. One clear, obvious example of a non-manufacturing entity stifling innovation. Apple put the multi-touch smartphone out amidst numerous non-manufacturing entities holding patents for all kinds of technologies. The same goes for the iPad. 'Patent trolls' sure didn't keep them from changing (or more correctly, creating) those markets.
With companies holding patents, a product will hit the marketplace before the 'patent trolls' do anything. That isn't innovation preventing. The product hitting the marketplace showcases the innovation. I can see copycat companies (read: Google, HTC, Samsung) doing far, FAR more to prevent innovation by parroting a cutting edge company's products for their own gain without bringing anything innovative into the mix.
Never called Apple a patent troll...
Also...Are you suggesting that because Apple revolutionized the game no one else is allowed to play?
The kid that walks up and steals the other kids lunch money. Standard Bully 101.
Motorola sued Apple first.
Apple and the kid had a deal in play but Apple decided that it didn't like the deal being so much like the deal it had with others and asked for special treatment...the kid then said no, this isn't right...Apple went ahead and used the kids property even after the deal was deemed wrong by the kid...the kid then sued.
Is a lot different than going after a Spanish tablet maker.
I sure hope if I'm ever on trial for anything that someone like you isn't sitting on the jury.
As if I would pay the same amount of attention and diligence to determining someone's guilt or innocence on a jury as making a comment on a rumor blog.
You're making blanket statements about property that don't really exist. There is no "you own it I can do what I want with it" rule. In regards to owning a digital real estate, or cybersquatting, I can buy some generic name like porn or search hoping one day that someone will make a huge offer, but I can't buy iPad3 or Windows9 without running into some legal issues.
Intellectual property doesn't really exist? Since when? Intellectual property most certainly does exist and can be bought and sold like other property. Try coming back when you learn something about intellectual property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You can get upset by the term patent troll but the term is descriptive and much shorter than writing non-practicing patent holding company or patent investment firm. It's a simple term that describes exactly what they do and implies nothing illegal which is noted by licensing deals among companies and lawsuits they file in a court of law.
It's an inflammatory, meaningless term and implies that they did something wrong.
I guess I will reserve judgement, till facts come out. One report, means nothing. We have all seen "reports" come out that turned out to be false. Especially, when it concerns Apple, Google, or whatever. Now reports on Facebook.....I'm sure all the bad ones are true
Also...Are you suggesting that because Apple revolutionized the game no one else is allowed to play?
Since when was that the name of innovation?
Poor reading comprehension is hindering your argument. I didn't say that you said Apple is a patent troll, but somehow you discerned that. Try to focus.
I also didn't say that since Apple invented the market for 'real' smartphones and tablets that no one should play. I do think that if someone wants to enter into the new marketplace that Apple created, they should be able to do it without blatantly copying Apple's patented designs and workings. As my example I used before, Apple patented the bounce back when over scrolling. Why did Google need to copy that when designing the workings of Android apart from just duplication and not innovating?
And by the way, you've still not answered my question. I asked for one obvious example of a 'patent troll' stifling innovation. That was your main argument against them. Let's see an example to back up your claim, or was that just something you pulled out of thin air?
Apple itself seems to be its greatest enemy these days. Then again, I'll repeat myself: Steve Jobs admired the old HP. Great companies fall from grace and it sometimes is very fast. Let's hope Apple doesn't go this way too soon.
I'm pretty sure Apple was "forced" into this. I think there was some issue where the patent troll threatened to sue Apple or Apple/iOS developers, but they would apparently shut up if Apple gave them some patents for free.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
I agree. I found the article amusing. It's good to see Apple playing as dirty as the leeches.
Don't be foolish. Didn't Apple sue HTC first? There's a huge difference between countersuing another company, and being a patent troll that lives off of lawsuits.
This is great..sue all the cloners out of existence. Maybe Samesung, HTCloner, etcloner... should innovate for a change and not just copy everything Apple does?
As regards to Samsung and HTC, you seem to assume cloning is bad and your _american_ way of thinking is the only acceptable one. I expect you'll then propose to nuke Iran, aggress Irak (ah, already done), invade Afghanistan (ah, already done), steal oil from poor countries (ah, already done), bully countries into voting your way or remove american participation into population-support programs necessary due to american behavior (ah, already done, ask Yemen or even UNESCO their opinion about that), double american-made world air pollution when everyone else is diminishing theirs (ah, already done)...
My point is, asian cultures consider copying good ideas a legitimate method to advance technology and culture. The fact america considers it a bad thing doesn't make it the only way to think.
Open your mind to that fact: others may think differently.
Think different.
And don't get me wrong: America has lots of great things, however self-righteousness is not one of them.
Why didn't Google sue Apple directly instead of giving patents to HTC?
Because Google isn't really interested in suing anyone? Remember, Apple sued HTC first, right?
Quote:
And why is Samsung trying to sue Apple using FRAND patents?
Because Apple sued Samsung?
Quote:
I'd like to see Android completely destroyed. The world would be a better place without Android. And if Android were to disappear, Fandroids would also naturally disappear and go extinct like the dodo bird.
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Don't be foolish. Didn't Apple sue HTC first? There's a huge difference between countersuing another company, and being a patent troll that lives off of lawsuits.
I don't think patent trolls are a good thing, but given the fact the biggest patent troll was made by a Microsoft top employee, it might be argued they always were a weapon, due to the current legal system.
It would be interesting to see how this all evolves... but I wish we could have a shortened version of the next twenty years of lawyering and lobbying
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
I hope his words did not mean genocide. He seems to advocate the idea that without Android, Android-people would use iPhone.
Note that his whole discourse fails, since he advocates a world of innovation and competition... but without anyone competing against Apple, and any innovation not from Apple. Methinks it's not going to work out.
As to his idea that Android should be destroyed and the world would be better without it, in my opinion, if any system is terrible, it will die out. If it's good enough that it survives or even thrives, then it is self-demonstrating that the world has a need for it, is therefore better with it, and it should not hence be destroyed but made (even) better.
I'm pretty sure Apple was "forced" into this. I think there was some issue where the patent troll threatened to sue Apple or Apple/iOS developers, but they would apparently shut up if Apple gave them some patents for free.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
It appears Apple was a more than willing member. They're even on the speakers list for the recent IP getaway weekend thrown by Digitude and backer Altitude.
Note too that Nokia is again targeted, just months after all the lawsuits between Apple and them were supposedly settled. Is that going to be enough for Microsoft to modify their somewhat passive support for Apple's tactics?
If Digitude were the simple and legitimate company that Wizard, Jragosta and some others would say they are, why did they go into hiding as soon as the news broke?
When TechCrunch began shining a light in their direction with Apple's name attached around Dec. 4th, their website and all related references were suddenly removed. Damning evidence IMHO that "someone" didn't want it known they were involved and wanted it gone.
Since Digitude was happy to release several press announcements in the previous months, what changed suddenly to send them into hiding? They plainly were proud of their business plan. The only thing I see that happened is Apple exposed as a partner and perhaps even the driver. Digitude and partners don't appear to be quite as open about their little business now.
As long as it's legal, then I say good for Apple! Apple should use every method that they can to crush it's enemies. Apple should make friends with every patent troll in the world and then band together to sue the hell out of everybody, while Apple is protected.
Beg to differ. HTC Didn't sue Apple on its own. Apple sued them and tried to stop their mobile business. Since they were using Android for their daily bread, Google came to their rescue. Fight can not be one way. At the end Apple may win, but the battle has to be fought rather than a straight defeat
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Yes, I think that Fandroids should be rounded up and made to wear green Android patches on their clothing. After that, they should all be placed and made to live in ghettos, where they will eventually be stuffed into cattle cars and shipped off to camps where the final solution awaits them.
Oh wait a second. Actually, I believe that I explained exactly what I meant in post #46, so no, I do not advocate genocide for anybody. At least not for Fandroids.
He seems to advocate the idea that without Android, Android-people would use iPhone.
In a world without Android, they wouldn't all necessarily have to use iPhones. They could use Blackberries or Symbian or Windows phones or anything else.
I certainly don't want everybody to be using Apple only, that sounds rather boring.
Comments
Apple is looking for the biggest profits it can possibly make, and will use any sleazy tactic they can to get it.
Just a thought. Why isn't Apple #1 on your "enemies list" since you appear to hate them so much?
How so?
The kid that walks up and steals the other kids lunch money. Standard Bully 101.
Motorola sued Apple first.
Me being against any company that supports an entity that is ultimately bad for innovation as their sole purpose is generating income as opposed to protecting IP is the same as me wanting Apple dead and gone.
Please give one example of a so-called 'patent troll' being anti-innovation. One clear, obvious example of a non-manufacturing entity stifling innovation. Apple put the multi-touch smartphone out amidst numerous non-manufacturing entities holding patents for all kinds of technologies. The same goes for the iPad. 'Patent trolls' sure didn't keep them from changing (or more correctly, creating) those markets.
With companies holding patents, a product will hit the marketplace before the 'patent trolls' do anything. That isn't innovation preventing. The product hitting the marketplace showcases the innovation. I can see copycat companies (read: Google, HTC, Samsung) doing far, FAR more to prevent innovation by parroting a cutting edge company's products for their own gain without bringing anything innovative into the mix.
Please give one example of a so-called 'patent troll' being anti-innovation. One clear, obvious example of a non-manufacturing entity stifling innovation. Apple put the multi-touch smartphone out amidst numerous non-manufacturing entities holding patents for all kinds of technologies. The same goes for the iPad. 'Patent trolls' sure didn't keep them from changing (or more correctly, creating) those markets.
With companies holding patents, a product will hit the marketplace before the 'patent trolls' do anything. That isn't innovation preventing. The product hitting the marketplace showcases the innovation. I can see copycat companies (read: Google, HTC, Samsung) doing far, FAR more to prevent innovation by parroting a cutting edge company's products for their own gain without bringing anything innovative into the mix.
Never called Apple a patent troll...
Also...Are you suggesting that because Apple revolutionized the game no one else is allowed to play?
Since when was that the name of innovation?
The kid that walks up and steals the other kids lunch money. Standard Bully 101.
Motorola sued Apple first.
Apple and the kid had a deal in play but Apple decided that it didn't like the deal being so much like the deal it had with others and asked for special treatment...the kid then said no, this isn't right...Apple went ahead and used the kids property even after the deal was deemed wrong by the kid...the kid then sued.
Is a lot different than going after a Spanish tablet maker.
I sure hope if I'm ever on trial for anything that someone like you isn't sitting on the jury.
As if I would pay the same amount of attention and diligence to determining someone's guilt or innocence on a jury as making a comment on a rumor blog.
You're making blanket statements about property that don't really exist. There is no "you own it I can do what I want with it" rule. In regards to owning a digital real estate, or cybersquatting, I can buy some generic name like porn or search hoping one day that someone will make a huge offer, but I can't buy iPad3 or Windows9 without running into some legal issues.
Intellectual property doesn't really exist? Since when? Intellectual property most certainly does exist and can be bought and sold like other property. Try coming back when you learn something about intellectual property.
You can get upset by the term patent troll but the term is descriptive and much shorter than writing non-practicing patent holding company or patent investment firm. It's a simple term that describes exactly what they do and implies nothing illegal which is noted by licensing deals among companies and lawsuits they file in a court of law.
It's an inflammatory, meaningless term and implies that they did something wrong.
Never called Apple a patent troll...
Also...Are you suggesting that because Apple revolutionized the game no one else is allowed to play?
Since when was that the name of innovation?
Poor reading comprehension is hindering your argument. I didn't say that you said Apple is a patent troll, but somehow you discerned that. Try to focus.
I also didn't say that since Apple invented the market for 'real' smartphones and tablets that no one should play. I do think that if someone wants to enter into the new marketplace that Apple created, they should be able to do it without blatantly copying Apple's patented designs and workings. As my example I used before, Apple patented the bounce back when over scrolling. Why did Google need to copy that when designing the workings of Android apart from just duplication and not innovating?
And by the way, you've still not answered my question. I asked for one obvious example of a 'patent troll' stifling innovation. That was your main argument against them. Let's see an example to back up your claim, or was that just something you pulled out of thin air?
Are there any I have left off of the list?
Apple itself seems to be its greatest enemy these days. Then again, I'll repeat myself: Steve Jobs admired the old HP. Great companies fall from grace and it sometimes is very fast. Let's hope Apple doesn't go this way too soon.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
I agree. I found the article amusing. It's good to see Apple playing as dirty as the leeches.
Don't be foolish. Didn't Apple sue HTC first? There's a huge difference between countersuing another company, and being a patent troll that lives off of lawsuits.
This is great..sue all the cloners out of existence. Maybe Samesung, HTCloner, etcloner... should innovate for a change and not just copy everything Apple does?
As regards to Samsung and HTC, you seem to assume cloning is bad and your _american_ way of thinking is the only acceptable one. I expect you'll then propose to nuke Iran, aggress Irak (ah, already done), invade Afghanistan (ah, already done), steal oil from poor countries (ah, already done), bully countries into voting your way or remove american participation into population-support programs necessary due to american behavior (ah, already done, ask Yemen or even UNESCO their opinion about that), double american-made world air pollution when everyone else is diminishing theirs (ah, already done)...
My point is, asian cultures consider copying good ideas a legitimate method to advance technology and culture. The fact america considers it a bad thing doesn't make it the only way to think.
Open your mind to that fact: others may think differently.
Think different.
And don't get me wrong: America has lots of great things, however self-righteousness is not one of them.
Why didn't Google sue Apple directly instead of giving patents to HTC?
Because Google isn't really interested in suing anyone? Remember, Apple sued HTC first, right?
And why is Samsung trying to sue Apple using FRAND patents?
Because Apple sued Samsung?
I'd like to see Android completely destroyed. The world would be a better place without Android. And if Android were to disappear, Fandroids would also naturally disappear and go extinct like the dodo bird.
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Don't be foolish. Didn't Apple sue HTC first? There's a huge difference between countersuing another company, and being a patent troll that lives off of lawsuits.
I don't think patent trolls are a good thing, but given the fact the biggest patent troll was made by a Microsoft top employee, it might be argued they always were a weapon, due to the current legal system.
It would be interesting to see how this all evolves... but I wish we could have a shortened version of the next twenty years of lawyering and lobbying
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
I hope his words did not mean genocide. He seems to advocate the idea that without Android, Android-people would use iPhone.
Note that his whole discourse fails, since he advocates a world of innovation and competition... but without anyone competing against Apple, and any innovation not from Apple. Methinks it's not going to work out.
As to his idea that Android should be destroyed and the world would be better without it, in my opinion, if any system is terrible, it will die out. If it's good enough that it survives or even thrives, then it is self-demonstrating that the world has a need for it, is therefore better with it, and it should not hence be destroyed but made (even) better.
I'm pretty sure Apple was "forced" into this. I think there was some issue where the patent troll threatened to sue Apple or Apple/iOS developers, but they would apparently shut up if Apple gave them some patents for free.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
It appears Apple was a more than willing member. They're even on the speakers list for the recent IP getaway weekend thrown by Digitude and backer Altitude.
Note too that Nokia is again targeted, just months after all the lawsuits between Apple and them were supposedly settled. Is that going to be enough for Microsoft to modify their somewhat passive support for Apple's tactics?
If Digitude were the simple and legitimate company that Wizard, Jragosta and some others would say they are, why did they go into hiding as soon as the news broke?
When TechCrunch began shining a light in their direction with Apple's name attached around Dec. 4th, their website and all related references were suddenly removed. Damning evidence IMHO that "someone" didn't want it known they were involved and wanted it gone.
Since Digitude was happy to release several press announcements in the previous months, what changed suddenly to send them into hiding? They plainly were proud of their business plan. The only thing I see that happened is Apple exposed as a partner and perhaps even the driver. Digitude and partners don't appear to be quite as open about their little business now.
If true, then this is great news!
How can anybody whine about this? Why do these people insist that Apple brings a knife to a gun fight?
How is this any different than Google buying Motorola and then giving some patents to HTC, which they then use to sue Apple with?
Google gives HTC patents so it can sue Apple
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...sue-Apple.html
As long as it's legal, then I say good for Apple! Apple should use every method that they can to crush it's enemies. Apple should make friends with every patent troll in the world and then band together to sue the hell out of everybody, while Apple is protected.
Beg to differ. HTC Didn't sue Apple on its own. Apple sued them and tried to stop their mobile business. Since they were using Android for their daily bread, Google came to their rescue. Fight can not be one way. At the end Apple may win, but the battle has to be fought rather than a straight defeat
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Yes, I think that Fandroids should be rounded up and made to wear green Android patches on their clothing. After that, they should all be placed and made to live in ghettos, where they will eventually be stuffed into cattle cars and shipped off to camps where the final solution awaits them.
Oh wait a second. Actually, I believe that I explained exactly what I meant in post #46, so no, I do not advocate genocide for anybody. At least not for Fandroids.
He seems to advocate the idea that without Android, Android-people would use iPhone.
In a world without Android, they wouldn't all necessarily have to use iPhones. They could use Blackberries or Symbian or Windows phones or anything else.
I certainly don't want everybody to be using Apple only, that sounds rather boring.
At the end Apple may win, but the battle has to be fought rather than a straight defeat
Yes, this whole war will involve a whole number of lawsuits and small battles and we shall see who eventually ends up victorious.