When I had a HTC Hero I used to test multiple roms per day in an attempt to find one that was actually any good.
As such I could probably activate my phone several times per week, quite often receiving activation emails. The emails read as if I was activating a new phone.
Just thought it worth pointing out that activation does not mean a phone sale.
Actually Apple's % of all mobile profits last quarter dropped from 57% to 52% while Android's rose 12% to near 40%. After this 700K figure, I would not be surprised if Android is sucking up more % of mobile profits than Apple after the Q4 results. They are growing super fast while Apple has flat lined for almost a year now.
This doesn't make any sense!?
Android is not a company, therefor there are no profits to be counted for. If, however, you are trying to say that the 100 or so companies that release Android devices have now acquired 40% of the world's mobile handset profits, then that's an extremely ridiculous comparison to make against the profit of a single company.
I'm sorry, but a company with a tiny profit margin is not a successfully run company at all. If you are barely making any money on the products you're selling then you are skating on very thin ice... The focus of your company is not producing high quality products, but selling the cheapest possible crap you can get away with. In turn, the people who buy your products will have a very low loyalty rate, therefor you must strive towards flooding the market and hope to grab more market share just to sustain your business.
Android is not a company, therefor there are no profits to be counted for. If, however, you are trying to say that the 100 or so companies that release Android devices have now acquired 40% of the world's mobile handset profits, then that's an extremely ridiculous comparison to make against the profit of a single company.
I'm sorry, but a company with a tiny profit margin is not a successfully run company at all. If you are barely making any money on the products you're selling then you are skating on very thin ice... The focus of your company is not producing high quality products, but selling the cheapest possible crap you can get away with. In turn, the people who buy your products will have a very loyalty rate, therefor you must strive towards flooding the market and hope to grab market share just to sustain your business.
I pretty much agree with your comments. I think that particular post was targeted more at some here who post things like "Apple gets 90% of the profits from smartphones so who cares". He was pointing out that it may no longer be an accurate presentation.
No, there's a dozen doubters perhaps looking for some way to brush the statement away.
Google considers an activation to be just what most of us would. You buy a smartphone and have a carrier activate it so it can be used as one. Google's activation numbers don't include resold devices (repeats) or software updates, with each device only counted once. The numbers also don't include any forked versions of Android since they don't have a license to Google services. Asian knock-offs, the Kindle Fire, the Nook Color or any other device not offering a license to Google services aren't counted in their activation numbers.
Are you still confused?
Honest questions:
If Google doesn't participate in the activation process, where does it get "activation" numbers?
How are those numbers verified?
It appears that the only time that Google gets involved is when the customer registers for Google services. If that is true, and some number of users never register -- then Google would never see the devices ( just like forked Android devices).
It is possible that more devices are being activated than Google claims!
It is also possible that fewer devices are being activated than Google claims unless it can verify the "activation" numbers (assumed to be provided by carriers or phone manufacturers).
If Google doesn't participate in the activation process, where does it get "activation" numbers?
How are those numbers verified?
It appears that the only time that Google gets involved is when the customer registers for Google services. If that is true, and some number of users never register -- then Google would never see the devices ( just like forked Android devices).
It is possible that more devices are being activated than Google claims!
It is also possible that fewer devices are being activated than Google claims unless it can verify the "activation" numbers (assumed to be provided by carriers or phone manufacturers).
I believe that every Android smartphone activated by buyer uses a Gmail address. If you don't have one, you're assigned one. Perhaps it's linked that way. I'm just guessing.
It does matter that an OS called Android is picking up activations. It certainly matters in market share mentality.
But, unlike Windows, Android is many OS's, and many devices with vastly differing features. And the devices now are not business machines, but personal appliances, purchased by individuals, not computers purchased by purchasing departments in massive quantities with issues such as control, maintenance, infrastructure support. Windows and the PC's were of concern to the Suits.
Phones, tablets, music players are individual appliances that have features of the computers of the past, but they are not computers. They are toasters, watches, flavors of cereal, soda pop, potatoes, and fruit.
It's a mistake to view these personal devices the same as the computers of the past. That's not the world in which these devices exist.
Well, now it's has come to the point that Apple cannot announce activation numbers anymore. Android is overtaking much faster than anyone anticipated. It seems as though Apple can never get ahead no matter what they produce. Except for iTunes and iPod, everything else flames out or ends up 2nd, 3rd or stuck as a niche player.
Huh? Why does Apple need to announce activation numbers... They have a better statistic, sales numbers. Google can't announce sales numbers because they don't sell Android devices, they have to rely on activations to determine how many Android devices are out there.
You can easily calculate Apple's average activation numbers by using the sales figures they provide at the end of every quarter.
They can never get ahead and end up as a niche!? Let's see...
Number ones...
Smartphones
Media players
Tablet computers
All in one desktop computers
Ultra books
Mobile app store
Digital media store
Customer satisfaction
Market profits
Retail profits
Market value (US)
Hell, even their biggest "flop" is selling better than any other set-top box right now.
Have I left anything out?
Sorry, but Apple has done very well in the markets they target and continues to do so. The only time they need to worry is if their sales start falling year over year... And they so far have been able to predict when that will happen and move to the next market. The iPod is a great example of that. Apple saw the PMP market was saturated and users were moving to smartphones, so they move into the smartphone business and expanded on the iTunes ecosystem.
Andy is reporting the numbers for pre-christmas week. This is not representative of the overall performance this quarter. The actual average activation number for this quarter will much less. Max 550k but more likely ~500K or even less given more competition from new iphone and a range of cheap new windows phones.
Note that Andy always quotes activations for all DEVICES, not just phones. Currently Analysts like Horace Dediu expect Apple to sell about 58M IOS devices this quarter. This is about 636K iPhones, iPads and iPod Touche activations per day.
MacVicta askes "What exactly counts as an Android device? Does it include the Kindle Fire and Barnes & Noble Nook Color?"
Do these count for the activations? What about forked versions of Android in China?
Those are fair questions.
Fire and Nook are not counted. I believe Rubin was referring to activations of units sold by members of the Handset Alliance. Even if I am wrong about this, Google can't even track how many units of Fire and Nook are sold or activated. Not sure about Android in China, but I surmise the same answer applies.
Andy is reporting the numbers for pre-christmas week. This is not representative of the overall performance this quarter. The actual average activation number for this quarter will much less. Max 550k but more likely ~500K or even less given more competition from new iphone and a range of cheap new windows phones.
Note that Andy always quotes activations for all DEVICES, not just phones. Currently Analysts like Horace Dediu expect Apple to sell about 58M IOS devices this quarter. This is about 636K iPhones, iPads and iPod Touche activations per day.
It's funny how most are responding to slappy instead of dismissing his comment due to the fact that it's either purposeful flame bait or woeful ignorance.
Also you all doubt Google only because they are Google. No other reason.
And to the poster who mentioned flashing ROMs. The easy way to verify how many times your device was registered is to go into the web market after an initial activation. And take note of the device in the list. Wipe your phone. Flash a ROM. Check again. Same device. The web market keeps a list of all devices registered to your account so if it was reregistering as a different device time and time again you'd have 2. But that's not the case.
quite the opposite is true in my office. A lot of people (more like all actually) who have droids on VZ are replacing them with iphones. One co-worker switched from T-Mobile to Sprint last friday so she could get an iphone.
I know of only one guy who got 4g droid and he is complaining all the time about the batter life. It is actually getting annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyzlmt
One reason:
4g
At my desk on At&t iphone I get .12mb download on speedtest
my coworker on verizon 4g droid... 12mb. 100x faster than my iphone
Granted the wireless provider is a major factor, but those with iphones on sprint or verizon arent much better. My phone is basically unusable during the day
the iphone wave that ran through my building a few years ago and put 100+ iphones into the hands of my coworkers, is now bringing 4g droid phones
Well the truth hurts. I can understand how users are in complete denial and hate seeing the reality of it all. One brings that information and get called a TROLL is just a reaction to denial.
And whether this is an issue depends on several other questions including
1. What's the rate of deactivation for each. Returns hurt the bottom line after all.
2. How much does Apple etc make on each phone they sell. That Apple is getting half the number of activations means less if they make 3 times as much on each device
These questions doesn't matter at all. What matters is that Google is activating 700K Android devices daily. Thats huge! The media grabbed a hold of it and its now well known that Android activations are blowing Apple right out of the picture. Its as simple as that.
How much is an Android-based device worth to Google in ad revenue or how many devices have to get activated before their Android investment breaks even?
If the only revenue source from Android were ad revenue, a long time. As it is, my guess is that Google has made a bundle.
Google gets licensing fees for lots of software from nearly every Android device. Android market, for one, where Google takes additional fees. Google Navigation? All that Googley goodness that most every Android device incorporates? All must be licensed and paid for by the manufacturer.
Look at Google financials. They are not losing money on Android.
Well, now it's has come to the point that Apple cannot announce activation numbers anymore. Android is overtaking much faster than anyone anticipated. It seems as though Apple can never get ahead no matter what they produce. Except for iTunes and iPod, everything else flames out or ends up 2nd, 3rd or stuck as a niche player.
The iPad has another year left, maybe. As of now, sales are spectacular, and Apple has little competition in that sector. They sell around 59% of all the tablet computers out there.
I see the Transformer Prime and similar tablets eating away at the top end, with cheap ICS tablets eating away at the low end, but the iPad appeals to a wide swath of consumers, and will stay mainstream at least until next Christmas.
And BTW, iPod sales are no longer a huge factor in Apple's bottom line. As of now, they have the iPad as a market leader, and the various different iPhones, which sell very well to the unsophisticated value buyer and to the "newest and greatest, as long as it is Apple" crowd.
The Apple TV will be another big iTouch, like the iPad. It will be hyped as the second coming of TV, and it will sell. iDevices will be necessary as the remote control, and will sell as companion purchases.
Whether Apple remains a market leader in these categories or not, they will continue to prosper.
Comments
Tried to read ALL the Comments here - least scan them
But made me sick after a bit
Yada % Market Share this, yada quarterly profit that
Every damn one of you are stuck on Wall Street/Money Chit
Comparing Autos and Platforms and B.S. ?
Why not add in Stanley Steamers from 100 years ago
Didn't they "own the market" for a while ?
What about Titanic and Ocean Liners?
Didn't they "own the market" for a while ?
Ok, so Microsoft and Dell sold a LOT of computers/software
Their "products" are still shit
Oh, and Roman Numerals - they DID "own the market"
For 1,000 years
Along with Sun going around Earth (yea, some 'buy' anything)
How THAT turn out in long run ?
And of the "given numbers" about activations
Is that in USA, Europe, Globally, or what ?
(700k day in 'El Norte' ain't shit, gimme 7M in rest)
.
Yea, yea ... not the most coherent post, but ...
(in a rush at the moment, sorry)
Imagine "some" of you get the idea
The rest of you go back to Wintel
Count your Monopoly Money, Stock Certificates
Enjoy your moment of glory, your Season in Sun
(come back in 20 years, see how you doing then)
Us Real Apple Folks have work to do
The Global Village awaits
And ALL the Money, Market Share, etc
All the 'tech wannabes' and 'vaporware'
That ever existed will never ever ...
Change the World
.
As such I could probably activate my phone several times per week, quite often receiving activation emails. The emails read as if I was activating a new phone.
Just thought it worth pointing out that activation does not mean a phone sale.
Actually Apple's % of all mobile profits last quarter dropped from 57% to 52% while Android's rose 12% to near 40%. After this 700K figure, I would not be surprised if Android is sucking up more % of mobile profits than Apple after the Q4 results. They are growing super fast while Apple has flat lined for almost a year now.
This doesn't make any sense!?
Android is not a company, therefor there are no profits to be counted for. If, however, you are trying to say that the 100 or so companies that release Android devices have now acquired 40% of the world's mobile handset profits, then that's an extremely ridiculous comparison to make against the profit of a single company.
I'm sorry, but a company with a tiny profit margin is not a successfully run company at all. If you are barely making any money on the products you're selling then you are skating on very thin ice... The focus of your company is not producing high quality products, but selling the cheapest possible crap you can get away with. In turn, the people who buy your products will have a very low loyalty rate, therefor you must strive towards flooding the market and hope to grab more market share just to sustain your business.
This doesn't make any sense!?
Android is not a company, therefor there are no profits to be counted for. If, however, you are trying to say that the 100 or so companies that release Android devices have now acquired 40% of the world's mobile handset profits, then that's an extremely ridiculous comparison to make against the profit of a single company.
I'm sorry, but a company with a tiny profit margin is not a successfully run company at all. If you are barely making any money on the products you're selling then you are skating on very thin ice... The focus of your company is not producing high quality products, but selling the cheapest possible crap you can get away with. In turn, the people who buy your products will have a very loyalty rate, therefor you must strive towards flooding the market and hope to grab market share just to sustain your business.
I pretty much agree with your comments. I think that particular post was targeted more at some here who post things like "Apple gets 90% of the profits from smartphones so who cares". He was pointing out that it may no longer be an accurate presentation.
No, there's a dozen doubters perhaps looking for some way to brush the statement away.
Google considers an activation to be just what most of us would. You buy a smartphone and have a carrier activate it so it can be used as one. Google's activation numbers don't include resold devices (repeats) or software updates, with each device only counted once. The numbers also don't include any forked versions of Android since they don't have a license to Google services. Asian knock-offs, the Kindle Fire, the Nook Color or any other device not offering a license to Google services aren't counted in their activation numbers.
Are you still confused?
Honest questions:
If Google doesn't participate in the activation process, where does it get "activation" numbers?
How are those numbers verified?
It appears that the only time that Google gets involved is when the customer registers for Google services. If that is true, and some number of users never register -- then Google would never see the devices ( just like forked Android devices).
It is possible that more devices are being activated than Google claims!
It is also possible that fewer devices are being activated than Google claims unless it can verify the "activation" numbers (assumed to be provided by carriers or phone manufacturers).
Honest questions:
If Google doesn't participate in the activation process, where does it get "activation" numbers?
How are those numbers verified?
It appears that the only time that Google gets involved is when the customer registers for Google services. If that is true, and some number of users never register -- then Google would never see the devices ( just like forked Android devices).
It is possible that more devices are being activated than Google claims!
It is also possible that fewer devices are being activated than Google claims unless it can verify the "activation" numbers (assumed to be provided by carriers or phone manufacturers).
I believe that every Android smartphone activated by buyer uses a Gmail address. If you don't have one, you're assigned one. Perhaps it's linked that way. I'm just guessing.
But, unlike Windows, Android is many OS's, and many devices with vastly differing features. And the devices now are not business machines, but personal appliances, purchased by individuals, not computers purchased by purchasing departments in massive quantities with issues such as control, maintenance, infrastructure support. Windows and the PC's were of concern to the Suits.
Phones, tablets, music players are individual appliances that have features of the computers of the past, but they are not computers. They are toasters, watches, flavors of cereal, soda pop, potatoes, and fruit.
It's a mistake to view these personal devices the same as the computers of the past. That's not the world in which these devices exist.
Well, now it's has come to the point that Apple cannot announce activation numbers anymore. Android is overtaking much faster than anyone anticipated. It seems as though Apple can never get ahead no matter what they produce. Except for iTunes and iPod, everything else flames out or ends up 2nd, 3rd or stuck as a niche player.
Huh? Why does Apple need to announce activation numbers... They have a better statistic, sales numbers. Google can't announce sales numbers because they don't sell Android devices, they have to rely on activations to determine how many Android devices are out there.
You can easily calculate Apple's average activation numbers by using the sales figures they provide at the end of every quarter.
They can never get ahead and end up as a niche!? Let's see...
Number ones...
Smartphones
Media players
Tablet computers
All in one desktop computers
Ultra books
Mobile app store
Digital media store
Customer satisfaction
Market profits
Retail profits
Market value (US)
Hell, even their biggest "flop" is selling better than any other set-top box right now.
Have I left anything out?
Sorry, but Apple has done very well in the markets they target and continues to do so. The only time they need to worry is if their sales start falling year over year... And they so far have been able to predict when that will happen and move to the next market. The iPod is a great example of that. Apple saw the PMP market was saturated and users were moving to smartphones, so they move into the smartphone business and expanded on the iTunes ecosystem.
.
Tried to read ALL the Comments here - least scan them
But made me sick after a bit
Yada % Market Share this, yada quarterly profit that
Every damn one of you are stuck on Wall Street/Money Chit
Comparing Autos and Platforms and B.S. ?
Why not add in Stanley Steamers from 100 years ago
Didn't they "own the market" for a while ?
What about Titanic and Ocean Liners?
Didn't they "own the market" for a while ?
Ok, so Microsoft and Dell sold a LOT of computers/software
Their "products" are still shit
Oh, and Roman Numerals - they DID "own the market"
For 1,000 years
Along with Sun going around Earth (yea, some 'buy' anything)
How THAT turn out in long run ?
And of the "given numbers" about activations
Is that in USA, Europe, Globally, or what ?
(700k day in 'El Norte' ain't shit, gimme 7M in rest)
.
Yea, yea ... not the most coherent post, but ...
(in a rush at the moment, sorry)
Imagine "some" of you get the idea
The rest of you go back to Wintel
Count your Monopoly Money, Stock Certificates
Enjoy your moment of glory, your Season in Sun
(come back in 20 years, see how you doing then)
Us Real Apple Folks have work to do
The Global Village awaits
And ALL the Money, Market Share, etc
All the 'tech wannabes' and 'vaporware'
That ever existed will never ever ...
Change the World
.
Is that supposed to be a poem?
Note that Andy always quotes activations for all DEVICES, not just phones. Currently Analysts like Horace Dediu expect Apple to sell about 58M IOS devices this quarter. This is about 636K iPhones, iPads and iPod Touche activations per day.
MacVicta askes "What exactly counts as an Android device? Does it include the Kindle Fire and Barnes & Noble Nook Color?"
Do these count for the activations? What about forked versions of Android in China?
Those are fair questions.
Fire and Nook are not counted. I believe Rubin was referring to activations of units sold by members of the Handset Alliance. Even if I am wrong about this, Google can't even track how many units of Fire and Nook are sold or activated. Not sure about Android in China, but I surmise the same answer applies.
Andy is reporting the numbers for pre-christmas week. This is not representative of the overall performance this quarter. The actual average activation number for this quarter will much less. Max 550k but more likely ~500K or even less given more competition from new iphone and a range of cheap new windows phones.
Note that Andy always quotes activations for all DEVICES, not just phones. Currently Analysts like Horace Dediu expect Apple to sell about 58M IOS devices this quarter. This is about 636K iPhones, iPads and iPod Touche activations per day.
iPod Douche? A follow-up to the iPad?
Oh, Touche.
Also you all doubt Google only because they are Google. No other reason.
And to the poster who mentioned flashing ROMs. The easy way to verify how many times your device was registered is to go into the web market after an initial activation. And take note of the device in the list. Wipe your phone. Flash a ROM. Check again. Same device. The web market keeps a list of all devices registered to your account so if it was reregistering as a different device time and time again you'd have 2. But that's not the case.
I know of only one guy who got 4g droid and he is complaining all the time about the batter life. It is actually getting annoying.
One reason:
4g
At my desk on At&t iphone I get .12mb download on speedtest
my coworker on verizon 4g droid... 12mb. 100x faster than my iphone
Granted the wireless provider is a major factor, but those with iphones on sprint or verizon arent much better. My phone is basically unusable during the day
the iphone wave that ran through my building a few years ago and put 100+ iphones into the hands of my coworkers, is now bringing 4g droid phones
TROLL
Well the truth hurts. I can understand how users are in complete denial and hate seeing the reality of it all. One brings that information and get called a TROLL is just a reaction to denial.
And whether this is an issue depends on several other questions including
1. What's the rate of deactivation for each. Returns hurt the bottom line after all.
2. How much does Apple etc make on each phone they sell. That Apple is getting half the number of activations means less if they make 3 times as much on each device
These questions doesn't matter at all. What matters is that Google is activating 700K Android devices daily. Thats huge! The media grabbed a hold of it and its now well known that Android activations are blowing Apple right out of the picture. Its as simple as that.
?Android activations are blowing Apple right out of the picture. Its as simple as that.
Might I borrow a response methodology from one of the other? questionable members here to respond to that?
The full content of my response (this post) is as follows:
I'm glad it's finally clarified.
How much is an Android-based device worth to Google in ad revenue or how many devices have to get activated before their Android investment breaks even?
If the only revenue source from Android were ad revenue, a long time. As it is, my guess is that Google has made a bundle.
Google gets licensing fees for lots of software from nearly every Android device. Android market, for one, where Google takes additional fees. Google Navigation? All that Googley goodness that most every Android device incorporates? All must be licensed and paid for by the manufacturer.
Look at Google financials. They are not losing money on Android.
Well, now it's has come to the point that Apple cannot announce activation numbers anymore. Android is overtaking much faster than anyone anticipated. It seems as though Apple can never get ahead no matter what they produce. Except for iTunes and iPod, everything else flames out or ends up 2nd, 3rd or stuck as a niche player.
The iPad has another year left, maybe. As of now, sales are spectacular, and Apple has little competition in that sector. They sell around 59% of all the tablet computers out there.
I see the Transformer Prime and similar tablets eating away at the top end, with cheap ICS tablets eating away at the low end, but the iPad appeals to a wide swath of consumers, and will stay mainstream at least until next Christmas.
And BTW, iPod sales are no longer a huge factor in Apple's bottom line. As of now, they have the iPad as a market leader, and the various different iPhones, which sell very well to the unsophisticated value buyer and to the "newest and greatest, as long as it is Apple" crowd.
The Apple TV will be another big iTouch, like the iPad. It will be hyped as the second coming of TV, and it will sell. iDevices will be necessary as the remote control, and will sell as companion purchases.
Whether Apple remains a market leader in these categories or not, they will continue to prosper.
Why wouldn't Apple announce numbers anymore? A respectable second place is nothing to be shy about
But...but, Apple is Number One!
What about that?