Former executives accuse Apple of ignoring supplier labor abuses

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 93
    It has been a long time since I've seen the likes of the high-horsed, self-righteous, pseudo-pious indignation evinced in these posts. It is the verbal equivalent of hair shirts and cat-o-nine-tails self mutilation, and I seriously hope the innocent AND guilty among us feel better now that we have beaten our breasts and lamented unto the clouds how rotten American corporations and consumers are, one and all.



    Pity the workers of the world whose blood, sweat, and tears we have so cravenly ignored in the name of rapacious capitalism. Mea culpa, mea culpa, Kyrie eleison, Kyrie eleison.
  • Reply 22 of 93
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quoting former employees without naming them is as useful and probably as accurate as publishing an unconfirmed rumor from an undisclosed source.
  • Reply 23 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    It seems that mostly the same people that state Apple isn't paying the Chinese workers enough are the same ones that want Apple to stop all foreign production. Do they really think putting hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers out of Jobs is better than no jobs at all or have they simply not thought about the repercussions?



    WE should do the manufacturing on U.S. soil, this way Americans can have access to plenty of jobs.



    Jobs that Americans wouldn't find acceptable.



    Americans can't ramp up production as fast as the Chinese.

    Americans won't produce product at a rate that is needed to fulfill demand.

    Americans refuse to work for less than a certain amount of pay, otherwise it's not worth their time.

    Union$ would be inevitable.



    So, having said that hypothetical truth, if we (Americans) build these devices, are we willing to wait 3-4 months for delivery of the latest and greatest Apple device......and pay 25% more?



    We could learn a lesson or two from the Chinese work ethic. We had it at one time....post WWII until the 70s....but we eventually got fat, spoiled and lazy. It's sad, really.





    Edit: I also think the ones who post comments like that are the very same people that voted for "change", not knowing what the repercussions of change would be. And they call us iSheep?
  • Reply 24 of 93
    In other breaking news, my ex wife thinks I'm a bastard.
  • Reply 25 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    Quoting former employees without naming them is a useful and probably as accurate as publishing an unconfirmed rumor from an undisclosed source.



    You mean like DigiTimes?
  • Reply 26 of 93
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    OK, you aren't happy about the anonymity for the former execs. Fine.



    Is anyone going to address all the other charges in the piece? I'm curious what people here think of all those.
  • Reply 27 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrmister View Post


    OK, you aren't happy about the anonymity for the former execs. Fine.



    Is anyone going to address all the other charges in the piece? I'm curious what people here think of all those.



    See posts #15, 20 & 24.
  • Reply 28 of 93
    This kinda feels like blaming our police officers for not catching every crime ever committed. Apple is the only company to audit supplier's suppliers. They are definitely pro-active. That doesn't mean that they have time to police everything. I wouldn't be surprised if these instances are related to prioritizing issues they plan to solve. Of course, this could always be some former exec spreading things he heard in the rumor mill or didn't fully understand the situation. We have no hard evidence. He is an ex-Apple exec, right?
  • Reply 29 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrmister View Post


    Is anyone going to address all the other charges in the piece? I'm curious what people here think of all those.



    Why? Is Apple guilty of everything they are accused of until we prove them innocent?

    Or is it the job the shadowy accusers to bring the proof?
  • Reply 30 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VinitaBoy View Post


    It has been a long time since I've seen the likes of the high-horsed, self-righteous, pseudo-pious indignation evinced in these posts. It is the verbal equivalent of hair shirts and cat-o-nine-tails self mutilation, and I seriously hope the innocent AND guilty among us feel better now that we have beaten our breasts and lamented unto the clouds how rotten American corporations and consumers are, one and all.



    Pity the workers of the world whose blood, sweat, and tears we have so cravenly ignored in the name of rapacious capitalism. Mea culpa, mea culpa, Kyrie eleison, Kyrie eleison.



    They can be rotten. That is why you look at facts instead of stereotyping. In this case, there are no facts... just something that some guy said with no specifics.
  • Reply 31 of 93
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,351member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    It seems that mostly the same people that state Apple isn't paying the Chinese workers enough are the same ones that want Apple to stop all foreign production. Do they really think putting hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers out of Jobs is better than no jobs at all or have they simply not thought about the repercussions?



    Those repercussions and consequences require more than 3 seconds of knee-jerk reaction- so no, most people don't go that far. Demanding that Apple stop dealing with Foxconn, pull out of China and bring manufacturing to the US is pretty much the extent of the thought process. Because, you know, Apple single-handedly has the power to fundamental alter global economic realities.



    Also, do people actually believe Apple could have moved numbers like 37 million iPhones a quarter if they were manufacturing in the US? They would have been lucky to hit even a fraction of that. It's just not possible.
  • Reply 32 of 93
    What I would like to know is when these ”ex executives” were working for Apple and how up to date their knowledge is. If they left Apple more than 3 years ago, they do not really know the current situation.



    If they now work for the competition, they will have an axe to grind.



    Being quoted as anonymous must be very convenient for the Times and for them.
  • Reply 33 of 93
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Just think if Apple never brought these issues to light in the first place, then they would have been sitting there quietly, basking in ignorance like every other corporation who outsources manufacturing in these countries.



    So why is Apple singled out as the big, bad American corporation?



    The reality is in today's world of compete or die, minimising labour costs is a necessity.



    For all the hypocrites talking about "child labour", when was the last time you left a McDonalds (or other fast food chain) when you were served by a fifteen year old "child labourer"?
  • Reply 34 of 93
    A few days ago, you could read the following quote on this website :

    "A former [Apple] executive recounted an instance prior to the launch of the original iPhone where 8,000 employees were woken up in the middle of the night to begin outfitting glass screens, a last-minute addition for the handset. Within just a few days, the factory was producing more than 10,000 iPhones a day. ...

    Sources revealed that the last-minute adjustment came about because Jobs demanded a change in the iPhone just weeks before its scheduled launch. He had reportedly noticed that the keys in his pockets had scratched a prototype device he had been testing."

    I doubt whether managers really care a lot about working conditions in overseas countries.
  • Reply 35 of 93
    I love when macho forum-goers talk about how cowardly whistleblowers are for staying anonymous, while they post anonymously from there "AppleIzMuhJeZuZ" username. Yeah. You're super edgy.



    The fact of the matter is Apple does business with companies that exploit humans, including children, for profit. You can be part of that group of people that tries to brush it off, but that makes you a coward. A person with the slightest shred of integrity would say, "This is a problem, and it doesn't matter if it is happening in China or Detroit, children should be protected."



    But that line is a little too severe for ya, huh? Can't handle owning the fact that the imaginary border between here and there isn't, in fact, a magical portal where human suffering is suddenly cool if it pads a CEOs bonus by a few million? Are you really that bereft of decency?



    Let not a single one of you enemies of humanity say that you're a man when you look yourself in the mirror tomorrow. A man has a sense of justice, and you clearly do not. You show it in all your shameless pandering to a corporation that doesn't give a flip about you and yours; one that would be glad to see you work yourself (literally) to death in a factory if they could figure out how stick you in one. You think corporate execs would cry their eyes out if it were kansas city instead of shengdu? Not bloody likely.



    The correct way to approach an article like this, or any article similar to it, is to ask for policy changes from the government to prevent companies, en masse, from engaging in activities that are detrimental to humanity outside the imaginary box of our natural borders. If American capital can flow here and there without hinderance then our sense of dignity (if any sense is left) should be expected to go with it. Why, WHY is it only the responsibility of the chinese to care for chinese children??? Doesn't any man, and I mean a real man, the sort of person you have respect for, take offense to poaching on the helpless, no matter what time zone it takes place in?



    I guess I'm not racist enough to really be an american, but I contend that all exploitation should be met with ample indignation, whether in the south where you dogs are from, or in china, or south africa, or anywhere else. You may be disgustingly stupid, but if this sort of thing were happening to you I would be just as offended... it's called decency... you should try it out some time.
  • Reply 36 of 93
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post


    I love when macho forum-goers talk about how cowardly whistleblowers are for staying anonymous, while they post anonymously from there "AppleIzMuhJeZuZ" username. Yeah. You're super edgy.



    The fact of the matter is Apple does business with companies that exploit humans, including children, for profit. You can be part of that group of people that tries to brush it off, but that makes you a coward. A person with the slightest shred of integrity would say, "This is a problem, and it doesn't matter if it is happening in China or Detroit, children should be protected."



    But that line is a little too severe for ya, huh? Can't handle owning the fact that the imaginary border between here and there isn't, in fact, a magical portal where human suffering is suddenly cool if it pads a CEOs bonus by a few million? Are you really that bereft of decency?



    Let not a single one of you enemies of humanity say that you're a man when you look yourself in the mirror tomorrow. A man has a sense of justice, and you clearly do not. You show it in all your shameless pandering to a corporation that doesn't give a flip about you and yours; one that would be glad to see you work yourself (literally) to death in a factory if they could figure out how stick you in one. You think corporate execs would cry their eyes out if it were kansas city instead of shengdu? Not bloody likely.



    The correct way to approach an article like this, or any article similar to it, is to ask for policy changes from the government to prevent companies, en masse, from engaging in activities that are detrimental to humanity outside the imaginary box of our natural borders. If American capital can flow here and there without hinderance then our sense of dignity (if any sense is left) should be expected to go with it. Why, WHY is it only the responsibility of the chinese to care for chinese children??? Doesn't any man, and I mean a real man, the sort of person you have respect for, take offense to poaching on the helpless, no matter what time zone it takes place in?



    I guess I'm not racist enough to really be an american, but I contend that all exploitation should be met with ample indignation, whether in the south where you dogs are from, or in china, or south africa, or anywhere else. You may be disgustingly stupid, but if this sort of thing were happening to you I would be just as offended... it's called decency... you should try it out some time.



    Here, have a real windmill to tilt at.



    India has an 80% rate of recycling, this is why.



    The factory workers of China who make the things that fill your stores with cheap goods are living in luxury in comparison.
  • Reply 37 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Above.



    I'm sure if you keep looking you can find people who have it a little worse, and a little worse still. But you could just say, "hey, they're alive, and that beats being dead!" Except for a lot of foxconn employees, who felt that that wasn't the case.



    I would say, however, that both of these things are unfortunate, and shouldn't be defended as "Just" or "necessary" by any stretch of the imagination. Why is that so impossible to admit, to yourselves and to others?
  • Reply 38 of 93
    d-ranged-range Posts: 396member
    I'm getting increasingly fed-up by all the news outlets spinning this issue in relation to Apple all of a sudden. My local newspaper had a similar horribly suggestive piece like this yesterday, conveniently using Apples blowout earnings (1 small column in the paper) report to fill half a page about how Apple was indirectly funding child labor, driving assembly workers to suicide, destroying the environment around the factories, etc.



    I understand that stuff like this happens in the factories that make all the cheap shiny things we like to buy, and I'm all for changing that. But pinning this on Apple or using Apple as poster child for all that is wrong with Chinese labor conditions is the epitome of hypocrisy. The computers that were used to typeset and publish all these articles were probably made in the exact same factories. If the authors of said articles go shopping for whatever they are looking for, price will often be top of the list when it comes to buying decisions. Everyone is profiting from cheap stuff manufactured somewhere they have cheap labor.



    The fact that Apple is now singled out as the prime example of a big bad western company exploiting Chinese factory workers is ridiculous. I advise anyone who disagrees to go have a look in (for example) the Chinese food processing industry, and see how employees are treated over there. Compared to that, working 70 hours a week behind a Foxconn assembly line is almost like retirement.



    Moral of the story: if you are sincerely worried about labor conditions in most parts of Asia, go complain there, and vote with your wallet, instead of riding an individual company's success to make your point. And realize this probably means paying twice as much for electronics, toys, clothing, many processed food stuffs, and so on.
  • Reply 39 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d-range View Post


    I'm getting increasingly fed-up by all the news outlets spinning this issue in relation to Apple all of a sudden. My local newspaper had a similar horribly suggestive piece like this yesterday, conveniently using Apples blowout earnings (1 small column in the paper) report to fill half a page about how Apple was indirectly funding child labor, driving assembly workers to suicide, destroying the environment around the factories, etc.



    I understand that stuff like this happens in the factories that make all the cheap shiny things we like to buy, and I'm all for changing that. But pinning this on Apple or using Apple as poster child for all that is wrong with Chinese labor conditions is the epitome of hypocrisy. The computers that were used to typeset and publish all these articles were probably made in the exact same factories. If the authors of said articles go shopping for whatever they are looking for, price will often be top of the list when it comes to buying decisions. Everyone is profiting from cheap stuff manufactured somewhere they have cheap labor.



    The fact that Apple is now singled out as the prime example of a big bad western company exploiting Chinese factory workers is ridiculous. I advise anyone who disagrees to go have a look in (for example) the Chinese food processing industry, and see how employees are treated over there. Compared to that, working 70 hours a week behind a Foxconn assembly line is almost like retirement.



    Moral of the story: if you are sincerely worried about labor conditions in most parts of Asia, go complain there, and vote with your wallet, instead of riding an individual company's success to make your point. And realize this probably means paying twice as much for electronics, toys, clothing, many processed food stuffs, and so on.



    This needed quoting for posterity. Apple's success has put them in the cross hairs of the 'anti-built in China' movement on several fronts. Part of that is the labor conditions, but Apple is the only tech company that is voluntarily joining the Fair Labor Association. That says something for Apple's commitment to improving labor conditions in the factories building their products. Part of it is the 'bring jobs back to the US' mantra people. Unfortunately, these people are out of touch with the limitations that the current US workforce possess. Simply put, the US is now a nation of full of people who can't think past a sound bite. Comedian George Carlin once said "think of how stupid the average American is, and remember for him to be average, half of everyone has to be dumber than him". I work in a manufacturing facility, I know that the average new hire we have wouldn't possibly be capable of assembling the components inside an i-device, heck, many of them barely even pick up their feet when they walk.



    Secondly, has any other tech company besides Apple released their own internal review of their contracted labor facilities to the public? I don't recall Samsung, Sony, Nintendo, Nike, HP, Dell, or any other large cap company releasing the findings from their internal investigations, especially to the public. To me, that speaks volumes of how much this issue matters to Apple. Bringing violations to light, even though they paint you and your contracted facilities as the bad guy from time to time takes intestinal fortitude that, apparently, a lot of other companies don't have.
  • Reply 40 of 93
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member
    Anyone that does business in China should know labor abuse is an issue. How many "willingly" work 12-hr shifts here in U.S. for low wages and not go postal???
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