2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
There was about $6B in pension fund losses, but that is more of an accounting thing than a cash loss.
1) Another 80% figure is how many more iPhones AT&T sold than did Verizon. AT&T and Verizon were on "equal" footing with the release of the iPhone 4S yet AT&T managed to sell 7.6 million iPhones compared to Verizon's 4.2 million iPhones. Granted, AT&T also has the iPhone 3GS to sell but there is no way that accounts for such a wide disparity. So what happened to everything jumping ship from AT&T as soon as Verizon gets the iPhone?
2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
I'll state up front that I am a Verizon customer and will never again be an ATT customer (burned, screwed, and lied to too many times). That said, I never subscribed to the "jumping ship once Verizon gets the iPhone" theories. Sure, there was going to be leakage; but I never thought there's be any sort of wholesale abandonment. Americans are too lazy to go through the trouble.
But a couple of stats I would be curious to see... ATT said that "a majority" of the iPhones they sold were 4S. Well, 51% is a majority. So we really don't know if a large part of their iPhones was the older model.
More importantly, it appears that a significant majority of their iPhone sales were to "recycled" customers (ie, upgraders). So assuming that a lot of those old iPhones leave the ATT network, their net increase in iPhone users/contracts could be a much lower number than 7.6 million (although a good number of those upgrades are probably also coming from former Android users). And in the absence of data to verify, I assume that a much higher percentage of the iPhones Verizon sold are a net increase in iPhone users since no existing Verizon iPhone user would be eligible for an upgrade bonus (but some Andoid users would be).
So what was the net increase in active iPhones on each network?
2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
It is simply accounting shenanigans: "Actuarial loss on benefit plan" accounted for a loss of ¢65/share and "Directory asset impairments" (i.e., their advertising income) had a loss of ¢48/share.
"Termination of T-Mobile acquisition" accounted for only ¢44/share, by comparison.
Their wireless segment did very well, both for the quarter and for the whole year.
The numbers on the press release don't add up to the 80% number. AT&T stated that they sold 9.2 million smartphones. They stated that they activated 7.6 million iPhones.
However, I suspect that more than a few of the activations came from, say, phones sold by Apple stores, or Best Buy, or...
They don't give total activations, and they don't breakout iPhone sales. As such, you can't just subtract one number from the other and call it 80%.
AT&T began throttling one that was using 8 GB per month. Then shortly after they hit one that was in the 5 - 6 range...
And what the heck are you doing to use that much data?
I'd agree that they shouldn't to full-speed for the first 2GB and throttle after that. Hell, if I were ATT I would just terminate your contract. But, it likely makes more sense to throttle based on your past 30-day usage to make things more consistent throughout the month... and the floor should be around 150kBPS.
The 2GB limit is lower than it should be, but I understand it. If you were using 8GB though... you are the problem, and punitive action should be expected.
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who wanted to start his own carrier so he (Apple) wouldn't be held captive by a mobile phone company?
Yes, but that doesn't mean it is a good investment or anything. He could have been making a pie in the sky type of statement. One big problem is that you have to sell competing devices - something that Apple would never allow. I don't even think the FTC would allow such a thing to happen either for competition reasons.
And what the heck are you doing to use that much data?
I'd agree that they shouldn't to full-speed for the first 2GB and throttle after that. Hell, if I were ATT I would just terminate your contract. But, it likely makes more sense to throttle based on your past 30-day usage to make things more consistent throughout the month... and the floor should be around 150kBPS.
The 2GB limit is lower than it should be, but I understand it. If you were using 8GB though... you are the problem, and punitive action should be expected.
You're out of your mind. They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not? One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If you actually use the device you're paying for, for more than just games and email, you'd know. There are dozens of powerful apps out there, that use a hefty amount of data to provide functionality and services. Ands that just for work. Normal things such as Netflix and Streamtome, and any other video streaming app will use up your 2 GB allowance in a day.
Your attitude is completely wrong, and so is AT&T.
I don?t think AT&T likes that product mix! As an AT&T iPhone owner, I get about one snail mail offer a month from AT&T trying to get me to buy an Android phone!
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who wanted to start his own carrier so he (Apple) wouldn't be held captive by a mobile phone company?
It's an idea that he considered and eventually abandoned.
It is doubtful that he was thinking about Apple constructing cellular towers, installing gear and maintaining them. More likely he was thinking about setting up an MVNO like Virgin Mobile.
In any case, Apple correctly concluded that mobile operators are little more than dumb pipes.
You're out of your mind. They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not? One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If you actually use the device you're paying for, for more than just games and email, you'd know. There are dozens of powerful apps out there, that use a hefty amount of data to provide functionality and services. Ands that just for work. Normal things such as Netflix and Streamtome, and any other video streaming app will use up your 2 GB allowance in a day.
Your attitude is completely wrong, and so is AT&T.
Netflix won't use 2GBs of data in one day. Average consumption of Netflix solely on 3G will consume about 3GBs of data in a month. Unless you're a Netflix addicts.
Generally speaking, people who use more than 4GBs a month are probably tethering their phone and using their unlimited plan as their ISP.
More importantly, it appears that a significant majority of their iPhone sales were to "recycled" customers (ie, upgraders). So assuming that a lot of those old iPhones leave the ATT network, their net increase in iPhone users/contracts could be a much lower number than 7.6 million (although a good number of those upgrades are probably also coming from former Android users). And in the absence of data to verify, I assume that a much higher percentage of the iPhones Verizon sold are a net increase in iPhone users since no existing Verizon iPhone user would be eligible for an upgrade bonus (but some Andoid users would be).
So what was the net increase in active iPhones on each network?
1) I don't think recycled would count as iPhone sales. They are customers to AT&T but surely not sales of the iPhone since they are recycled.
2) We know how many they sold and we know how many phones they activated, right? Do we know how many of them were smartphones? If we do I think there is enough data to determine how many were iPhones.
"Or you could? go to Sprint where they have "unlimited" data that doesn't get throttled or Verizon where the service both physical and customer are infinitely better."
I heard recently that Sprint started to throttle, only 1% or so but they are throttling!
Isn't it Verizon who nickle and dimes you to death with a fee for this, and a charge for that.............
A huge quarter for apple. AT&T were late introducing Android phones, but after 9 months or so to still be at less than 20% does not bode well for Android phones. The manufacturers better pull their finger out if they want to fight back against iOS.
Samsung's commercials are working really well. Time magazine had a great article basically saying with the staggering number of devices Apple is selling it's time for people to quit referring to it as a cult and people why buy Apple products as 'fanboys'.
They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not?
(Back) When they offered the unlimited plan, it was inconceivable that people would be able to use more than about 4-5GB with serious OCD usage.
Quote:
One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If that is his business, and he is using that much data... by what rights should everybody else be paying more to support him?! You should be able to get a 10GB contract rate with the carriers. In two years, they should be able to support a 40-50GB contract rate at a reasonable price. But, expecting "unlimited" to cover the 1st percentile and the 99th percentile equally and at the same rates is juvenile.
(Back) When they offered the unlimited plan, it was inconceivable that people would be able to use more than about 4-5GB with serious OCD usage.
If that is his business, and he is using that much data... by what rights should everybody else be paying more to support him?! You should be able to get a 10GB contract rate with the carriers. In two years, they should be able to support a 40-50GB contract rate at a reasonable price. But, expecting "unlimited" to cover the 1st percentile and the 99th percentile equally and at the same rates is juvenile.
The only thing that's juvenile is trying to suggest you or anyone else can pass judgement on what is acceptable for an UNLIMITED data plan, just because you "don't see the need" for a particular level of usage.
Regardless, throttling at 2 GB is beyond inappropriate, and does even make sense given their current 10dollar-per-gigabyte plans.
Comments
ATT throttle at 2.3GB
2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
There was about $6B in pension fund losses, but that is more of an accounting thing than a cash loss.
1) Another 80% figure is how many more iPhones AT&T sold than did Verizon. AT&T and Verizon were on "equal" footing with the release of the iPhone 4S yet AT&T managed to sell 7.6 million iPhones compared to Verizon's 4.2 million iPhones. Granted, AT&T also has the iPhone 3GS to sell but there is no way that accounts for such a wide disparity. So what happened to everything jumping ship from AT&T as soon as Verizon gets the iPhone?
2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
I'll state up front that I am a Verizon customer and will never again be an ATT customer (burned, screwed, and lied to too many times). That said, I never subscribed to the "jumping ship once Verizon gets the iPhone" theories. Sure, there was going to be leakage; but I never thought there's be any sort of wholesale abandonment. Americans are too lazy to go through the trouble.
But a couple of stats I would be curious to see... ATT said that "a majority" of the iPhones they sold were 4S. Well, 51% is a majority. So we really don't know if a large part of their iPhones was the older model.
More importantly, it appears that a significant majority of their iPhone sales were to "recycled" customers (ie, upgraders). So assuming that a lot of those old iPhones leave the ATT network, their net increase in iPhone users/contracts could be a much lower number than 7.6 million (although a good number of those upgrades are probably also coming from former Android users). And in the absence of data to verify, I assume that a much higher percentage of the iPhones Verizon sold are a net increase in iPhone users since no existing Verizon iPhone user would be eligible for an upgrade bonus (but some Andoid users would be).
So what was the net increase in active iPhones on each network?
1)
2) Why didn't AI report on AT&T's $6.7 billion loss for the quarter. I understand the $4 billion it had to pay T-Mobile USA but what about the $2.7 billion? Where did that come from?
It is simply accounting shenanigans: "Actuarial loss on benefit plan" accounted for a loss of ¢65/share and "Directory asset impairments" (i.e., their advertising income) had a loss of ¢48/share.
"Termination of T-Mobile acquisition" accounted for only ¢44/share, by comparison.
Their wireless segment did very well, both for the quarter and for the whole year.
Yet AT&T promotes the Android platform in their TV ads.
Yes. It's very odd that AT&T would advertise all the devices it sells (outside of the iPhone of course). Nobody would do that...
However, I suspect that more than a few of the activations came from, say, phones sold by Apple stores, or Best Buy, or...
They don't give total activations, and they don't breakout iPhone sales. As such, you can't just subtract one number from the other and call it 80%.
If Apple's wondering what to do with their $100 billion gold nugget, they could always buy AT&T - and have plenty left over.
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who wanted to start his own carrier so he (Apple) wouldn't be held captive by a mobile phone company?
AT&T began throttling one that was using 8 GB per month. Then shortly after they hit one that was in the 5 - 6 range...
And what the heck are you doing to use that much data?
I'd agree that they shouldn't to full-speed for the first 2GB and throttle after that. Hell, if I were ATT I would just terminate your contract. But, it likely makes more sense to throttle based on your past 30-day usage to make things more consistent throughout the month... and the floor should be around 150kBPS.
The 2GB limit is lower than it should be, but I understand it. If you were using 8GB though... you are the problem, and punitive action should be expected.
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who wanted to start his own carrier so he (Apple) wouldn't be held captive by a mobile phone company?
Yes, but that doesn't mean it is a good investment or anything. He could have been making a pie in the sky type of statement. One big problem is that you have to sell competing devices - something that Apple would never allow. I don't even think the FTC would allow such a thing to happen either for competition reasons.
And what the heck are you doing to use that much data?
I'd agree that they shouldn't to full-speed for the first 2GB and throttle after that. Hell, if I were ATT I would just terminate your contract. But, it likely makes more sense to throttle based on your past 30-day usage to make things more consistent throughout the month... and the floor should be around 150kBPS.
The 2GB limit is lower than it should be, but I understand it. If you were using 8GB though... you are the problem, and punitive action should be expected.
You're out of your mind. They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not? One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If you actually use the device you're paying for, for more than just games and email, you'd know. There are dozens of powerful apps out there, that use a hefty amount of data to provide functionality and services. Ands that just for work. Normal things such as Netflix and Streamtome, and any other video streaming app will use up your 2 GB allowance in a day.
Your attitude is completely wrong, and so is AT&T.
No, thanks.
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who wanted to start his own carrier so he (Apple) wouldn't be held captive by a mobile phone company?
It's an idea that he considered and eventually abandoned.
It is doubtful that he was thinking about Apple constructing cellular towers, installing gear and maintaining them. More likely he was thinking about setting up an MVNO like Virgin Mobile.
In any case, Apple correctly concluded that mobile operators are little more than dumb pipes.
You're out of your mind. They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not? One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If you actually use the device you're paying for, for more than just games and email, you'd know. There are dozens of powerful apps out there, that use a hefty amount of data to provide functionality and services. Ands that just for work. Normal things such as Netflix and Streamtome, and any other video streaming app will use up your 2 GB allowance in a day.
Your attitude is completely wrong, and so is AT&T.
Netflix won't use 2GBs of data in one day. Average consumption of Netflix solely on 3G will consume about 3GBs of data in a month. Unless you're a Netflix addicts.
Generally speaking, people who use more than 4GBs a month are probably tethering their phone and using their unlimited plan as their ISP.
One big problem is that you have to sell competing devices
Who says? I created the network, I created a device for the network, I can do whatever the frick I want with it.
More importantly, it appears that a significant majority of their iPhone sales were to "recycled" customers (ie, upgraders). So assuming that a lot of those old iPhones leave the ATT network, their net increase in iPhone users/contracts could be a much lower number than 7.6 million (although a good number of those upgrades are probably also coming from former Android users). And in the absence of data to verify, I assume that a much higher percentage of the iPhones Verizon sold are a net increase in iPhone users since no existing Verizon iPhone user would be eligible for an upgrade bonus (but some Andoid users would be).
So what was the net increase in active iPhones on each network?
1) I don't think recycled would count as iPhone sales. They are customers to AT&T but surely not sales of the iPhone since they are recycled.
2) We know how many they sold and we know how many phones they activated, right? Do we know how many of them were smartphones? If we do I think there is enough data to determine how many were iPhones.
I heard recently that Sprint started to throttle, only 1% or so but they are throttling!
Isn't it Verizon who nickle and dimes you to death with a fee for this, and a charge for that.............
They offered the unlimited plan. They didn't tell me how to use it, nor should they. And who are you to say 2 GB per month is reasonable and 6 or 8 is not?
(Back) When they offered the unlimited plan, it was inconceivable that people would be able to use more than about 4-5GB with serious OCD usage.
One of my lines is my brothers who works in videography and (shocker) uses his mobile phone and fast data connection, for all different aspects of his business.
If that is his business, and he is using that much data... by what rights should everybody else be paying more to support him?! You should be able to get a 10GB contract rate with the carriers. In two years, they should be able to support a 40-50GB contract rate at a reasonable price. But, expecting "unlimited" to cover the 1st percentile and the 99th percentile equally and at the same rates is juvenile.
(Back) When they offered the unlimited plan, it was inconceivable that people would be able to use more than about 4-5GB with serious OCD usage.
If that is his business, and he is using that much data... by what rights should everybody else be paying more to support him?! You should be able to get a 10GB contract rate with the carriers. In two years, they should be able to support a 40-50GB contract rate at a reasonable price. But, expecting "unlimited" to cover the 1st percentile and the 99th percentile equally and at the same rates is juvenile.
The only thing that's juvenile is trying to suggest you or anyone else can pass judgement on what is acceptable for an UNLIMITED data plan, just because you "don't see the need" for a particular level of usage.
Regardless, throttling at 2 GB is beyond inappropriate, and does even make sense given their current 10dollar-per-gigabyte plans.