Ah, yes. The July 28th, 2001 Economist devoted much of an issue to it. Many articles from all angles about the aspects, from personal and medical, to international and business. Go to your local library and check it out, or you can buy it online @ <a href="http://www.economist.com"; target="_blank">the economist homepage</a>
The private-sector of the jail industry reap huge sums from pot remaining illegal. There are over 400,000 Americans in the penal system at any one time as a result of pot offenses. If it costs $30,000 per annum per inmate, multiply that by 400,000 and that gives you the handsome sum of $12 billion per year guaranteed annual income from the American taxpayer. The two largest corporations benefitting from this windfall are Wackenhut Security and the Correction Corporation of America (CCA). Both companies recently had a Wall St "must buy" rating on their stock.
A number of other industries are vehemently against the relaxing of the pot laws. It is illegal for US farmers to grow industrial hemp, the most versatile cash crop there is. It requires no pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, artificial fertilizers etc requires only minimal water and thrives in places where little or nothing else will grow. Industrial hemp can be used for paper, clothing, food, etc, and is a great source of biomass energy. It has been estimated that just 6% of the unused land area in the western half of the US used in industrial hemp agriculture would supply enough biomass methanol to run all of America's vehicles and fossil fuel powerstations, if converted accordingly to run on methanol. Imagine....not having to rely on imported middle eastern oil! Where would bin Laden and all those Islamic terror organizations as well as those monarchies and brutal dictatorships get all their $$$$$$$US Billions from?
Legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp will probably happen in time...but the anti-legalization lobby is not only extremely powerful (oil, prisons, lumber etc etc) but are also extremely closely connected to this current administration (and the next several probably in the future). Bush and company are more likely to invite Saddam Hussein for tea and cookies than decriminalize pot or industrial hemp.
The other thing which will prevent any quick change on the legal front is tradition and ignorance. Many people still lump cannabis, heroin and speed as being equally dangerous or addictive. Politicians are scared sh1tless about being seen as going "soft on drugs", and it seems that we now prefer to lock up terminally patients and their care givers for prescribing, supplying or using medical marijuana as well. Also...legalization probably won't suddenly create a whole bunch of new potsmokers. Maybe some kids will even quit if the illicit 'cool factor' didn't apply?
....i'm not sure what you peopel think who think it is bad to have it legalized, but its not like dazed and confused where when you smoke you act like that. maybe its different for othres but i've never been out of control and not able to function nearly as bad as alcohol. It also, i belive, not be related to cancer nearly as much as cigs. Plus if everyone uses a vaporizer then you don't actually smoke it its just the effect...no health risks, minimal lack of loss of control and no sharp glass bottles to fight with (also i dont know too many people that get angry or abusive who smoke)
i feel strongly about this...make this legal and cigz or alchy illegal...alot of it is just because the US is stubborn...they have such strict laws about it
Sorry its 1 in 7. I got that confused with being 4x as likely to be involved in an alcohol related accident at night. I got both of these statistcs from MADD.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would imagine it's still illegal because people would rather sit around complaining than do anything about the situation. I personally think pot's illegality and the drug war in general have been damaging and dangerous policies of my era, have I done anything about it, nope.
[quote] in some parts of nyc they dont even cite you for it (my friends and [ahem] i, have smoked jays walking along 2nd avenue). many people in law are still really fvcking stupid though. <hr></blockquote>
A favorite tactic of that great civil libertarian Rudy Giuliani was to have the police arrest people for smoking pot and have them spend a good 24 hours in jail before they could see a judge and have the charges dismissed.
Legalizing Marijuana would allow for a big break through in fuel, fibers, paper, medicine, etc. So for those reasons say "go ahead and legaglize it". But also, I think that at least decriminalizing it would help lower violent crime rates, people trying to get money to pay high prices for a substance that wouldn't be so expensive if it wasn't illegal. I really don't care about getting to smoke pot without the looming fear of the law because I don't really care about pot, I have never found much interest in a drug that makes you laugh at everything before you fall asleep 30 minutes later. I have smoked pot, I have plenty of friends that smoke, I don't care about how easy it would/wouldn't be to get it.
And about the driving thing, a lot of people don't care or even think about driving stoned. I wish they wouldn't but they do. I have seen people that are of legal age to drink not even take one sip because they have to drive, but instead smoke themselves stupid thinking that it is fine to drive completely stoned.
We need to stop incarcerating drug users and start rehabilitating them. Incarcerate the the "people" who put drugs on the street though. The only ****ing reason nicotine is legal is because of its history as America's cash-crop. Hell, we became a nation almost on the strength of tobacco itself. I have no respect for pot-heads, druggies, and smokers.
You're right, it's always better to fix a problem. But for some reason we've grown used to putting the problem on hold, and letting tax money go towards putting potheads in jail, over and over and over and over and over................
[quote]I have no respect for pot-heads, druggies, and smokers.<hr></blockquote>
Any thread on drugs is off-kelter without discussing ALCOHOL. Alcohol is an addictive drug, a depressant of the central nervous system. Alcohol *abuse* is the 2nd biggest killer of Americans re. drugs (tobacco being #1)...also it is the biggest cause of crime, death on the roads and domestic violence. Just because it is legal doesn't mean to say that alcohol use is any more 'moral' or otherwise 'OK' than, say, pot smoking......and no I *do* occasionally enjoy a beer or a glass of wine...and I don't smoke anything. I have no ax to grind here.
How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
An analogy like this could only come from someone on drugs.
well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.
If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).
Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.
If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree that there should be some restrictions. obviously if marij is legalized people should be warned that if they do it, they will be temporarily impaired. they could require suppliers to mention it in ads and/or on packaging like they do with alcohol. i am not against regulation of pot usage, but i think respobsible people should be given the oppportunity to use it responsibly without johnny lawman coming after them. i don't think that heavier restrictions than alcohol or tobacco should be used though. many studies have shown that the effects of pot on drivers aren't as bad as the effects of alcohol. and pot tends to make a person more mellow and not routy, as alcohol can often do. i don't see why i shouldn't be allowed to be stoned walking down the street. i'm less likely to hurt or even bother someone when i am high.
I'll start by saying I am not against decriminilization/legalization, and I am not a smoker at the moment.. I have smoked it a lot, and been a part of that group, but for the last few months, I've been home from school, and I haven't felt the desire to smoke weed.. I might in the future, but I'm not jonesing for it..
When we discuss marijuana laws, and laws for all drugs in general (especially alcohol too), which is really what we are doing, we should look at why our culture has deemed some drugs "dangerous" and criminalized them, and why some are considered socially acceptable.. Marijuana has been used for centuries, all across the world, except really in countries that weren't a natural home for the plant. (its hard to imagine Scottish Highlanders blazing a spliff, but who knows).. Alcohol has been the drug of choice for European cultures.. And when North America was growing into a world power, the European folks decided that to keep a little control over Hispanics and African Americans, they would make their drug of choice illegal.. Many people went to jail, and to this day there are thousands of people in jail on marijuana related charges.. I am too lazy to find out the specifics, but I'd bet a lot of those people are not dangerous to society..
If you looked you could find plenty of propoganda on both sides of this arguement (Sigmund Freud wrote many essays on the psychological powers of cocaine, and it was widely used in the 19th century), however, if you look beyond all the "reasons" why things are the way they are, then you come to a more fundamental question.. --Why are some cultures still allowed to exert control over others?-- Marijuana is illegal for many reasons, and they have nothing to do with "high drivers" or "shady drug dealers" or "international marijuana cartels".. It comes down to the people entrenched in power deciding the fate of many..
When the judicial and political figures in the United States can let go of this leash, and free all the people in jail, and let people smoke in peace, then the world will follow, and it won't be a bad thing.. Less control is never a bad thing..
[quote]Drugs are bad. Doesn't anyone know that?<hr></blockquote>
Which drugs are 'bad', and which ones are 'good'? And why?
If your definition of "bad" is linked to individual and public health risks, or death rates from use/abuse then the "worst ones" (alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs) are legal!
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
This world is a scary place.. I shudder to think about such atrocities, like someone killing someone I love, and I can't say what I would feel if that happened.. But it would probably be best for society as a whole to leave that kind of issue to the police.. Vigilante justice is a bad idea.. But I think there are times to draw the line.. Some things we do for society, and sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do.. Let's hope none of us are faced with anything like that.
Comments
A number of other industries are vehemently against the relaxing of the pot laws. It is illegal for US farmers to grow industrial hemp, the most versatile cash crop there is. It requires no pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, artificial fertilizers etc requires only minimal water and thrives in places where little or nothing else will grow. Industrial hemp can be used for paper, clothing, food, etc, and is a great source of biomass energy. It has been estimated that just 6% of the unused land area in the western half of the US used in industrial hemp agriculture would supply enough biomass methanol to run all of America's vehicles and fossil fuel powerstations, if converted accordingly to run on methanol. Imagine....not having to rely on imported middle eastern oil! Where would bin Laden and all those Islamic terror organizations as well as those monarchies and brutal dictatorships get all their $$$$$$$US Billions from?
Legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp will probably happen in time...but the anti-legalization lobby is not only extremely powerful (oil, prisons, lumber etc etc) but are also extremely closely connected to this current administration (and the next several probably in the future). Bush and company are more likely to invite Saddam Hussein for tea and cookies than decriminalize pot or industrial hemp.
The other thing which will prevent any quick change on the legal front is tradition and ignorance. Many people still lump cannabis, heroin and speed as being equally dangerous or addictive. Politicians are scared sh1tless about being seen as going "soft on drugs", and it seems that we now prefer to lock up terminally patients and their care givers for prescribing, supplying or using medical marijuana as well. Also...legalization probably won't suddenly create a whole bunch of new potsmokers. Maybe some kids will even quit if the illicit 'cool factor' didn't apply?
Aren't we clever eh?
....i'm not sure what you peopel think who think it is bad to have it legalized, but its not like dazed and confused where when you smoke you act like that. maybe its different for othres but i've never been out of control and not able to function nearly as bad as alcohol. It also, i belive, not be related to cancer nearly as much as cigs. Plus if everyone uses a vaporizer then you don't actually smoke it its just the effect...no health risks, minimal lack of loss of control and no sharp glass bottles to fight with (also i dont know too many people that get angry or abusive who smoke)
i feel strongly about this...make this legal and cigz or alchy illegal...alot of it is just because the US is stubborn...they have such strict laws about it
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</p>
<strong>
Sorry its 1 in 7. I got that confused with being 4x as likely to be involved in an alcohol related accident at night. I got both of these statistcs from MADD.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a real unbiased source.
[quote] in some parts of nyc they dont even cite you for it (my friends and [ahem] i, have smoked jays walking along 2nd avenue). many people in law are still really fvcking stupid though. <hr></blockquote>
A favorite tactic of that great civil libertarian Rudy Giuliani was to have the police arrest people for smoking pot and have them spend a good 24 hours in jail before they could see a judge and have the charges dismissed.
And about the driving thing, a lot of people don't care or even think about driving stoned. I wish they wouldn't but they do. I have seen people that are of legal age to drink not even take one sip because they have to drive, but instead smoke themselves stupid thinking that it is fine to drive completely stoned.
We need to stop incarcerating drug users and start rehabilitating them. Incarcerate the the "people" who put drugs on the street though. The only ****ing reason nicotine is legal is because of its history as America's cash-crop. Hell, we became a nation almost on the strength of tobacco itself. I have no respect for pot-heads, druggies, and smokers.
Any thread on drugs is off-kelter without discussing ALCOHOL. Alcohol is an addictive drug, a depressant of the central nervous system. Alcohol *abuse* is the 2nd biggest killer of Americans re. drugs (tobacco being #1)...also it is the biggest cause of crime, death on the roads and domestic violence. Just because it is legal doesn't mean to say that alcohol use is any more 'moral' or otherwise 'OK' than, say, pot smoking......and no I *do* occasionally enjoy a beer or a glass of wine...and I don't smoke anything. I have no ax to grind here.
<strong>
Yeah real stupid. I can't wait till they legalize it so we have not only drunk drivers but stoned ones too.
In that case I would suggest we make stupidity illegal.
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: macfenian ]</p>
Where does it end?
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
*gives Outsider a big 'ole hug*
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
An analogy like this could only come from someone on drugs.
<strong>
well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.
If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).
<strong>
Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.
If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree that there should be some restrictions. obviously if marij is legalized people should be warned that if they do it, they will be temporarily impaired. they could require suppliers to mention it in ads and/or on packaging like they do with alcohol. i am not against regulation of pot usage, but i think respobsible people should be given the oppportunity to use it responsibly without johnny lawman coming after them. i don't think that heavier restrictions than alcohol or tobacco should be used though. many studies have shown that the effects of pot on drivers aren't as bad as the effects of alcohol. and pot tends to make a person more mellow and not routy, as alcohol can often do. i don't see why i shouldn't be allowed to be stoned walking down the street. i'm less likely to hurt or even bother someone when i am high.
When we discuss marijuana laws, and laws for all drugs in general (especially alcohol too), which is really what we are doing, we should look at why our culture has deemed some drugs "dangerous" and criminalized them, and why some are considered socially acceptable.. Marijuana has been used for centuries, all across the world, except really in countries that weren't a natural home for the plant. (its hard to imagine Scottish Highlanders blazing a spliff, but who knows).. Alcohol has been the drug of choice for European cultures.. And when North America was growing into a world power, the European folks decided that to keep a little control over Hispanics and African Americans, they would make their drug of choice illegal.. Many people went to jail, and to this day there are thousands of people in jail on marijuana related charges.. I am too lazy to find out the specifics, but I'd bet a lot of those people are not dangerous to society..
If you looked you could find plenty of propoganda on both sides of this arguement (Sigmund Freud wrote many essays on the psychological powers of cocaine, and it was widely used in the 19th century), however, if you look beyond all the "reasons" why things are the way they are, then you come to a more fundamental question.. --Why are some cultures still allowed to exert control over others?-- Marijuana is illegal for many reasons, and they have nothing to do with "high drivers" or "shady drug dealers" or "international marijuana cartels".. It comes down to the people entrenched in power deciding the fate of many..
When the judicial and political figures in the United States can let go of this leash, and free all the people in jail, and let people smoke in peace, then the world will follow, and it won't be a bad thing.. Less control is never a bad thing..
Which drugs are 'bad', and which ones are 'good'? And why?
If your definition of "bad" is linked to individual and public health risks, or death rates from use/abuse then the "worst ones" (alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs) are legal!
What are you trying to say here?
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.
Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>
This world is a scary place.. I shudder to think about such atrocities, like someone killing someone I love, and I can't say what I would feel if that happened.. But it would probably be best for society as a whole to leave that kind of issue to the police.. Vigilante justice is a bad idea.. But I think there are times to draw the line.. Some things we do for society, and sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do.. Let's hope none of us are faced with anything like that.