If they are getting 15% on just their platform compared to Google's 24% on all the platforms AdMob supports then they clearly aren't struggling, but can we trust IDC's numbers? I've yet to see Apple boast about iAds success and seen only the changes the in minimum cost and and developer revenue which is leans toward iAds don't performing the way Apple expected.
I think we're missing the point here. Unlike Google or Yahoo that generate the majority or at least a substantial portion of their revenue from ads, Apple generates most of its revenue from hardware.
To that end, iAds are nothing more than a tool to drive developer adoption of the iOS platform, which in turn increases the number of apps (and hopefully quality apps), which in turns leads to increased consumer desire to buy Apple's hardware products.
Therefore, whether Apple has 50% or 15% of the mobile display market is really inconsequential, since its primary purpose is to help developers monetize their free apps rather than generate increased revenue for Apple. Those same developers are free to choose any number of competing advertising platforms, and again, Apple could care less as long as they are developing for iOS.
I imagine the increased payout to developers reflects Apple's desire to drive additional adoption of the iAd platform itself in order to increase the size and scope of ad distribution, which will hopefully in turn, make iAd more attractive to major advertisers.
If they are getting 15% on just their platform compared to Google's 24% on all the platforms AdMob supports then they clearly aren't struggling, but can we trust IDC's numbers? I've yet to see Apple boast about iAds success and seen only the changes the in minimum cost and and developer revenue which is leans toward iAds don't performing the way Apple expected.
That's not what it says. It says Apple has 15% of ALL mobile ad revenue vs. 24% for Google. Now, clearly, Google is ahead, but Apple is clearly in the game.
Furthermore, they have far less that 15% of personal computer sales and they're clearly not struggling there. It takes more than a market share figure to say that they're struggling. So, once again, what evidence is there that they're struggling?
That's not what it says. It says Apple has 15% of ALL mobile ad revenue vs. 24% for Google. Now, clearly, Google is ahead, but Apple is clearly in the game.
Furthermore, they have far less that 15% of personal computer sales and they're clearly not struggling there. It takes more than a market share figure to say that they're struggling. So, once again, what evidence is there that they're struggling?
1) I am not aware of Apple having an ad presence on anything but iDevices so 15% on just their own products is an impressive number.
2) That graph is noting revenue share while Apple's "far less" number in the PC typically refers to their market share. I don't know what Apple's revenue share is in the PC market but their profit share is dominate, and by a large margin.
3) The fact that are changing their rates and take in favour of advertisers and developers, and the fact they aren't crowing their iAd success to help entice more advertisers and developers to use their service eludes to them struggling.
4) I never said they are struggling just that current information points to that as the most likely scenario. So far, you have pointed to anything factual, like an SEC filing that shows they are making a significant profit.
1) I am not aware of Apple having an ad presence on anything but iDevices so 15% on just their own products is an impressive number.
2) That graph is noting revenue share while Apple's "far less" number in the PC typically refers to their market share. I don't know what Apple's revenue share is in the PC market but their profit share is dominate, and by a large margin.
3) The fact that are changing their rates and take in favour of advertisers and developers, and the fact they aren't crowing their iAd success to help entice more advertisers and developers to use their service eludes to them struggling.
4) I never said they are struggling just that current information points to that as the most likely scenario. So far, you have pointed to anything factual, like an SEC filing that shows they are making a significant profit.
First, the word is 'alludes'.
Second, what makes you think that the only reason to be aggressive is if you're struggling? Perhaps they see Google as vulnerable and want to put more pressure on them.
As you know, it is unlikely that Apple will issue a statement to the SEC or anyone on the profitability of iAds - or any other product line. They just don't do that. So your conclusion that the most likely scenario is that iAds are struggling is completely without foundation.
In reality, we know that Apple has captured a significant market share in a very short time. We also know that Apple has run the app store at near break even in order to sell more iDevices. Speculation is that iAds work the same way - they are not so much interested in earning a profit from the ads as using the ads to sell iDevices:
Second, what makes you think that the only reason to be aggressive is if you're struggling? Perhaps they see Google as vulnerable and want to put more pressure on them.
It's not the only reason, but this type of change is more commonly done in business when you aren't performing the way you want to. If there growth was rapid and faster than the market I wouldn't have expected any of these changes.
Quote:
As you know, it is unlikely that Apple will issue a statement to the SEC or anyone on the profitability of iAds - or any other product line. They just don't do that. So your conclusion that the most likely scenario is that iAds are struggling is completely without foundation.
They do talk up their products and services in their events and PR reports and earnings calls. To not even question as to why Apple seems so hush on the iAds front means you're open to the possibility.
Quote:
In reality, we know that Apple has captured a significant market share in a very short time.
We don't know that. Your out of date articles that are projecting a scenario aren't proof. We need Apple to supply the proof or good research from an independent source or sources to make a sound case ether way.
Quote:
We also know that Apple has run the app store at near break even in order to sell more iDevices.
And yet we have heard about iTunes Music Store, iTunes Store, and App Store milestones constantly since their inception. Where are the iAd milestones. There is only one, from when it first launched of a commitment of $60 million which means no more than 60 customers. Not a bad start, but where is the evidence that it's grown substantially, and that it's popular and profitable to both advertisers and developers?
Apple is making nearly 2/3 of the as money that Google is competing. This looks pretty good given ads are Google's core business and competency. If this continues to grow it will attack Googles core business model. Pretty good for a newbie.
There is, in fact, more than one problem with iAds.
1) It is not cross platform, although this would be less of an issue if...
2) fill rate were as high as AdMob on iOS. It is at about 15%. However epc is higher.
3) Developers therefore keep away, or use a backup ( if iAds fails use AdMob - see the link below) and because they do...
4) Advertisers keep away hence the low fill rate, a vicious circle. Added to that
5) There is no way for very large apps to customise their advertisers on iAds, and other platforms - though not to my knowledge AdMob, do do this, Mobclix does - which would allow larger applications with millions of user to sell actual space on their apps to dedicated advertisers, which obviously earns them more than a random fill. This also means that:
6) On iAds Advertisers cant, as far as I know, target specific apps. Which they also want to do.
7) iAds is not available worldwide.
So this was never going to fly, except for small iOS only houses.
2) fill rate were as high as AdMob on iOS. It is at about 15%. However epc is higher.
My fill-rate on iAds in the past six months has been over 50%. In the past month it's over 60%.
I have tried various ad networks. iAds has consistently beat them all by a factor of 10 in terms of revenue to developer. So using iAds results in less ads for consumers and more revenue to developers in my experience.
I currently only use one competing fall-back network (they promised to beat iAds revenue and they failed miserably so will be removed shortly).
Does no one remember when Steve Jobs freaked about what user data the advertisers were collecting from new phones being tested on Apple's campus?
No. 1 reason, protect the privacy of Apple's customers.
Apple, to expand the desirability of iPhones, hosts free apps for free. They clearly did not anticipate that other ad networks would make so much money from their customers and their 'gift' to developers.
No. 2 reason, block spongers especially Google.
Most everyone hates advertising (except those that work in the industry), several comments above agree. Apple did not envisage consumers putting up with advertising on phones, when apps are $1 - $2 - $3 why put up with adverts? People pay for free TV shows from iTunes to avoid adverts, the model works. But mobile is not the same and some advertising (location based) is useful so Apple did iAds to put their stamp, their ethical approach, on advertising on the iPhone. Make it useful, not suck and reward the people it should.
No. 3 reason, limit advertising to that which is acceptable to Apple's customers.
Ads is Google's bread and butter, if Apple wants to go thermonuclear on them, why not go after and eat their food?
This has been my thought, too. Secretive Apple is like the Pink Panther! So Apple, go unseen. Strike when least expected. Be ahead of all else's game. Be glamorous. And allow just enough rumour to be obnoxious and cause a little back tension.
Google stabbed Apple in the back. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't got cards up its sleeve that would make a migraine seem like a minor itch to Larry at Googles.
Apple is the great planner and magician. What wonderful toys does it have in its hat? Search, are you in that bountiful hat of tricks?
This has been my thought, too. Secretive Apple is like the Pink Panther! So Apple, go unseen. Strike when least expected. Be ahead of all else's game. Be glamorous. And allow just enough rumour to be obnoxious and cause a little back tension.
Google stabbed Apple in the back. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't got cards up its sleeve that would make a migraine seem like a minor itch to Larry at Googles.
Apple is the great planner and magician. What wonderful toys does it have in its hat? Search, are you in that bountiful hat of tricks?
WEll the obvious solution is to kick all google products off iOS by default. But, lets be careful, OpenStreet map is nowhere near as good as google maps. No other search engine comes close.
Apple cant make it's customer's experience worse by using non-Google products. Well, it can but it shouldn't/
WEll the obvious solution is to kick all google products off iOS by default. But, lets be careful, OpenStreet map is nowhere near as good as google maps. No other search engine comes close.
Apple cant make it's customer's experience worse by using non-Google products. Well, it can but it shouldn't/
I totally agree. Apple has to and usually does play its cards right. Usually, Apple puts out superior experiences. Safari on the iMac, for example, took a while to perfect and then MS gave up even updating it's browser for the Apple computer. As usual, we shall have to wait to see what wonderful toys Apple has in mind in its battle with Google.
Comments
Right - so how are they 'struggling'?
If they are getting 15% on just their platform compared to Google's 24% on all the platforms AdMob supports then they clearly aren't struggling, but can we trust IDC's numbers? I've yet to see Apple boast about iAds success and seen only the changes the in minimum cost and and developer revenue which is leans toward iAds don't performing the way Apple expected.
To that end, iAds are nothing more than a tool to drive developer adoption of the iOS platform, which in turn increases the number of apps (and hopefully quality apps), which in turns leads to increased consumer desire to buy Apple's hardware products.
Therefore, whether Apple has 50% or 15% of the mobile display market is really inconsequential, since its primary purpose is to help developers monetize their free apps rather than generate increased revenue for Apple. Those same developers are free to choose any number of competing advertising platforms, and again, Apple could care less as long as they are developing for iOS.
I imagine the increased payout to developers reflects Apple's desire to drive additional adoption of the iAd platform itself in order to increase the size and scope of ad distribution, which will hopefully in turn, make iAd more attractive to major advertisers.
Right - so how are they 'struggling'?
Sarcasm.
Retraction.
Moving on.
The Troll stops here.
If they are getting 15% on just their platform compared to Google's 24% on all the platforms AdMob supports then they clearly aren't struggling, but can we trust IDC's numbers? I've yet to see Apple boast about iAds success and seen only the changes the in minimum cost and and developer revenue which is leans toward iAds don't performing the way Apple expected.
That's not what it says. It says Apple has 15% of ALL mobile ad revenue vs. 24% for Google. Now, clearly, Google is ahead, but Apple is clearly in the game.
Furthermore, they have far less that 15% of personal computer sales and they're clearly not struggling there. It takes more than a market share figure to say that they're struggling. So, once again, what evidence is there that they're struggling?
That's not what it says. It says Apple has 15% of ALL mobile ad revenue vs. 24% for Google. Now, clearly, Google is ahead, but Apple is clearly in the game.
Furthermore, they have far less that 15% of personal computer sales and they're clearly not struggling there. It takes more than a market share figure to say that they're struggling. So, once again, what evidence is there that they're struggling?
1) I am not aware of Apple having an ad presence on anything but iDevices so 15% on just their own products is an impressive number.
2) That graph is noting revenue share while Apple's "far less" number in the PC typically refers to their market share. I don't know what Apple's revenue share is in the PC market but their profit share is dominate, and by a large margin.
3) The fact that are changing their rates and take in favour of advertisers and developers, and the fact they aren't crowing their iAd success to help entice more advertisers and developers to use their service eludes to them struggling.
4) I never said they are struggling just that current information points to that as the most likely scenario. So far, you have pointed to anything factual, like an SEC filing that shows they are making a significant profit.
1) I am not aware of Apple having an ad presence on anything but iDevices so 15% on just their own products is an impressive number.
2) That graph is noting revenue share while Apple's "far less" number in the PC typically refers to their market share. I don't know what Apple's revenue share is in the PC market but their profit share is dominate, and by a large margin.
3) The fact that are changing their rates and take in favour of advertisers and developers, and the fact they aren't crowing their iAd success to help entice more advertisers and developers to use their service eludes to them struggling.
4) I never said they are struggling just that current information points to that as the most likely scenario. So far, you have pointed to anything factual, like an SEC filing that shows they are making a significant profit.
First, the word is 'alludes'.
Second, what makes you think that the only reason to be aggressive is if you're struggling? Perhaps they see Google as vulnerable and want to put more pressure on them.
As you know, it is unlikely that Apple will issue a statement to the SEC or anyone on the profitability of iAds - or any other product line. They just don't do that. So your conclusion that the most likely scenario is that iAds are struggling is completely without foundation.
In reality, we know that Apple has captured a significant market share in a very short time. We also know that Apple has run the app store at near break even in order to sell more iDevices. Speculation is that iAds work the same way - they are not so much interested in earning a profit from the ads as using the ads to sell iDevices:
http://www.coastdigital.co.uk/news/a...ile-ad-market/
In any event, I don't have the burden of proof. I simply stated that there was no evidence that iAds were struggling. And that's absolutely true.
First, the word is 'alludes'.
Ouch! Can I ever live that down.
Second, what makes you think that the only reason to be aggressive is if you're struggling? Perhaps they see Google as vulnerable and want to put more pressure on them.
It's not the only reason, but this type of change is more commonly done in business when you aren't performing the way you want to. If there growth was rapid and faster than the market I wouldn't have expected any of these changes.
As you know, it is unlikely that Apple will issue a statement to the SEC or anyone on the profitability of iAds - or any other product line. They just don't do that. So your conclusion that the most likely scenario is that iAds are struggling is completely without foundation.
They do talk up their products and services in their events and PR reports and earnings calls. To not even question as to why Apple seems so hush on the iAds front means you're open to the possibility.
In reality, we know that Apple has captured a significant market share in a very short time.
We don't know that. Your out of date articles that are projecting a scenario aren't proof. We need Apple to supply the proof or good research from an independent source or sources to make a sound case ether way.
We also know that Apple has run the app store at near break even in order to sell more iDevices.
And yet we have heard about iTunes Music Store, iTunes Store, and App Store milestones constantly since their inception. Where are the iAd milestones. There is only one, from when it first launched of a commitment of $60 million which means no more than 60 customers. Not a bad start, but where is the evidence that it's grown substantially, and that it's popular and profitable to both advertisers and developers?
Who among us LIKE to see ads? *chirping**tumble weed*
Me. If they're targetted and relevant and not over the top and in a free app. Apple' iAds are the best ads on mobile devices.
1) It is not cross platform, although this would be less of an issue if...
2) fill rate were as high as AdMob on iOS. It is at about 15%. However epc is higher.
3) Developers therefore keep away, or use a backup ( if iAds fails use AdMob - see the link below) and because they do...
4) Advertisers keep away hence the low fill rate, a vicious circle. Added to that
5) There is no way for very large apps to customise their advertisers on iAds, and other platforms - though not to my knowledge AdMob, do do this, Mobclix does - which would allow larger applications with millions of user to sell actual space on their apps to dedicated advertisers, which obviously earns them more than a random fill. This also means that:
6) On iAds Advertisers cant, as far as I know, target specific apps. Which they also want to do.
7) iAds is not available worldwide.
So this was never going to fly, except for small iOS only houses.
2) fill rate were as high as AdMob on iOS. It is at about 15%. However epc is higher.
My fill-rate on iAds in the past six months has been over 50%. In the past month it's over 60%.
I have tried various ad networks. iAds has consistently beat them all by a factor of 10 in terms of revenue to developer. So using iAds results in less ads for consumers and more revenue to developers in my experience.
I currently only use one competing fall-back network (they promised to beat iAds revenue and they failed miserably so will be removed shortly).
Does no one remember when Steve Jobs freaked about what user data the advertisers were collecting from new phones being tested on Apple's campus?
No. 1 reason, protect the privacy of Apple's customers.
Apple, to expand the desirability of iPhones, hosts free apps for free. They clearly did not anticipate that other ad networks would make so much money from their customers and their 'gift' to developers.
No. 2 reason, block spongers especially Google.
Most everyone hates advertising (except those that work in the industry), several comments above agree. Apple did not envisage consumers putting up with advertising on phones, when apps are $1 - $2 - $3 why put up with adverts? People pay for free TV shows from iTunes to avoid adverts, the model works. But mobile is not the same and some advertising (location based) is useful so Apple did iAds to put their stamp, their ethical approach, on advertising on the iPhone. Make it useful, not suck and reward the people it should.
No. 3 reason, limit advertising to that which is acceptable to Apple's customers.
. . .
Ads is Google's bread and butter, if Apple wants to go thermonuclear on them, why not go after and eat their food?
This has been my thought, too. Secretive Apple is like the Pink Panther! So Apple, go unseen. Strike when least expected. Be ahead of all else's game. Be glamorous. And allow just enough rumour to be obnoxious and cause a little back tension.
Google stabbed Apple in the back. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't got cards up its sleeve that would make a migraine seem like a minor itch to Larry at Googles.
Apple is the great planner and magician. What wonderful toys does it have in its hat? Search, are you in that bountiful hat of tricks?
This has been my thought, too. Secretive Apple is like the Pink Panther! So Apple, go unseen. Strike when least expected. Be ahead of all else's game. Be glamorous. And allow just enough rumour to be obnoxious and cause a little back tension.
Google stabbed Apple in the back. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't got cards up its sleeve that would make a migraine seem like a minor itch to Larry at Googles.
Apple is the great planner and magician. What wonderful toys does it have in its hat? Search, are you in that bountiful hat of tricks?
WEll the obvious solution is to kick all google products off iOS by default. But, lets be careful, OpenStreet map is nowhere near as good as google maps. No other search engine comes close.
Apple cant make it's customer's experience worse by using non-Google products. Well, it can but it shouldn't/
WEll the obvious solution is to kick all google products off iOS by default. But, lets be careful, OpenStreet map is nowhere near as good as google maps. No other search engine comes close.
Apple cant make it's customer's experience worse by using non-Google products. Well, it can but it shouldn't/
I totally agree. Apple has to and usually does play its cards right. Usually, Apple puts out superior experiences. Safari on the iMac, for example, took a while to perfect and then MS gave up even updating it's browser for the Apple computer. As usual, we shall have to wait to see what wonderful toys Apple has in mind in its battle with Google.