These politicians need to actually do their jobs and put the shame on themselves. The lobbyists and accountants and lawyers are doing their job perfectly and within the legal framework of corporate America. If any blame is to be pointed, it's with the tax code, which is largely created AND defined by these outraged politicians.
He's a Republican....actually he's a Republican? Wait, what?
What is he thinking saying these things? Is he sure he's a Republican? Doesn't he know his party only cares about the rich and could caree less about America or Americans?
Good luck getting corporations and the 'well-endowed' to be fair with their finances... I don't like these inequalities but then I also know this not going to happen so long as their cronies is at the helm.
With sincere apologies to Julius and Philip Epstein and Howard Koch....
RENAULT SENATOR: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is tax loopholes are going on in here!
This display of nerve leaves Rick taxpayers at a loss. The croupier lobbyist comes out of the gambling smoke-filled room and up to Renault Senator. He hands him a roll of bills.
CROUPIER LOBBYIST: Your winnings campaign contribution, sir.
What is reprehensible are people like Obama and Buffett and Biden saying that the wealthy should pay more, yet they still take advantage of all the tax breaks available instead of paying the higher rate that they believe is "patriotic".
100% agree and have been saying sine the "Buffett Rule" first got mentioned that if Buffett, Obama, or anyone else out there REALLY wanted to pay more, they could.
The easy, legal way? Forego itemizing deductions and choose the Standard Deduction ($11,500 this past year I believe) and viola! They would pay a HUGE amount in taxes.
Guessing they don't REALLY want to pay more, just want to stir up political points.
So if Apple sell iPhone in UK, they would have to pay 20% VAT, then paid another 35% tax on top?
Apple doesn't pay the VAT, the consumer does. That's why it's bad for corporations selling products to evade the tax rate on earnings that consumers are subject to. Consumers get a high percentage deducted from income tax and then on every product, pay 20% in tax. Apple is only being taxed on their profits, which is the same as consumers being taxed on their earnings. Income tax for UK consumers isn't a flat tax though, the lowest earners can pay under 10%, while people earning say 500k per year can pay 50% income tax (e.g if you make £500k, you pay ~£250k tax).
A UK iPhone costs £500 without a contract. 20% of this (£83) is a tax on the consumer (after deducting this, the remainder is the equivalent price on the US Stores). The remaining £417 goes to Apple. This isn't profit though, just revenue and they tend to make 25% profits on their earnings (deducting parts, R&D, staff, stores, shipping etc) so the profit margin would be £104. Of that profit, they'd pay 24% (it's not 35%) = £25 but they don't, as they use Ireland and others to pay 12.5% or less (£13).
Per product, the consumer pays over 6x more tax than Apple currently pays and they pay their fair share of income tax on their earnings beforehand. Even if Apple paid the proper corporate tax rate, the consumer would pay 3x more tax per product.
To reiterate the point of Apple being the target, it's easy to forget as they have grown wealthy very quickly, but they now make more profit than any company in the world. That puts them in the spotlight for their taxes. While we can easily dismiss the hypocritical musings of politicians, the economy is not in a state where we can dismiss the issue. Money hasn't been destroyed to create this recession, it has just been displaced and it certainly hasn't gone to the lowest earners.
Now you are going to try to school us that the Supreme Court has made all decisions in the best interests of freedom of We The People? Give me a break! Come on, you are smarter than that!
Perhaps you've forgotten the Constitution. It lays out the rules for settling disputes and clarifying issues that are uncertain. That mechanism is the Supreme Court. Whether you like their decision or not, the Constitution says that their decision is final (until Congress passes a law and the President signs it).
There's nothing in the Constitution that says that the Supreme court has to decide based on the best interests of freedom.
Now you are going to try to school us that the Supreme Court has made all decisions in the best interests of freedom of We The People? Give me a break! Come on, you are smarter than that!
( in my best " western drawl"...)
Sir, <strong> you're not from around these parts are you? </strong>
The issue is not the tax rate or loopholes. It is the lack of investment opportunities in the USA. Tech companies invest in R&D or expensive manufacturing plants. With the low education levels found in the USA and resulting low job skills, coupled with a pretty expensive workforce (benefits paid by the employer rather than the state, poor work ethic, too busy with personal business while on the job), investments take place outside the USA. That's where the money is needed. The USA is one of very few countries that tax overseas earnings. Any attempt to "tighten" the tax code will simply chases more countries offshore. Either the USA get's competitive or it will continue to lose jobs.
Apple doesn't pay the VAT, the consumer does. That's why it's bad for corporations selling products to evade the tax rate on earnings that consumers are subject to. Consumers get a high percentage deducted from income tax and then on every product, pay 20% in tax. Apple is only being taxed on their profits, which is the same as consumers being taxed on their earnings. Income tax for UK consumers isn't a flat tax though, the lowest earners can pay under 10%, while people earning say 500k per year can pay 50% income tax (e.g if you make £500k, you pay ~£250k tax).
A UK iPhone costs £500 without a contract. 20% of this (£83) is a tax on the consumer (after deducting this, the remainder is the equivalent price on the US Stores). The remaining £417 goes to Apple. This isn't profit though, just revenue and they tend to make 25% profits on their earnings (deducting parts, R&D, staff, stores, shipping etc) so the profit margin would be £104. Of that profit, they'd pay 24% (it's not 35%) = £25 but they don't, as they use Ireland and others to pay 12.5% or less (£13).
Per product, the consumer pays over 6x more tax than Apple currently pays and they pay their fair share of income tax on their earnings beforehand. Even if Apple paid the proper corporate tax rate, the consumer would pay 3x more tax per product.
To reiterate the point of Apple being the target, it's easy to forget as they have grown wealthy very quickly, but they now make more profit than any company in the world. That puts them in the spotlight for their taxes. While we can easily dismiss the hypocritical musings of politicians, the economy is not in a state where we can dismiss the issue. Money hasn't been destroyed to create this recession, it has just been displaced and it certainly hasn't gone to the lowest earners.
I was wondering about the reason why a company would locate in Ireland.
Well Great Britain probably realized that this would happen and thus created the VAT... so while they lose out on Income tax, they do get a guaranteed amount at the Cash register...
Right. Congress can't balance the budget or reverse the gleeful deficit spending, but oh, we're going to get "livid" if Apple lawfully pays a lower tax rate.
...and doesn't spend enough of the savings on bribery lobbying.
I think you left out the senators most important concern.
I was wondering about the reason why a company would locate in Ireland.
Well Great Britain probably realized that this would happen and thus created the VAT... so while they lose out on Income tax, they do get a guaranteed amount at the Cash register...
Shut up and toe the line before we vote you out. Or, better yet, if you're so enraged about this, where have you been for the past FORTY YEARS?!
this is the first time in 40 years that he could name drop Apple and get press for himself.
that said, Apple isn't 'side stepping' any laws. The laws created the loopholes they are using just as probably half the Fortune 500 companies use similar loopholes to reduce their taxes. Folks are jumping on apple because of it's size and the hit fodder but they aren't doing anything new or different than every other company that puts their offices in a state with lower taxes etc. Hell's Bells Amazon has been fighting the definition of 'physical presence' because they don't want to pay sales tax since that's a major reason many folks buy from them and not a local store. But some would say that all online should be sales taxed regardless. And you can bet that Amazon picked where their offices and warehouses are by what areas had the 'best' tax deals
I agree with this gentleman that there are some issues with the tax laws and less many of these loopholes are not cool. But to pick on Apple like they are doing something unique is wrong. So is demanding that companies be taxed on money they made outside of the country at the same rate as the money inside the country. Hell, I'm not sure I agree that money from outside the country should be taxed at all. If they made the money in, for example, Ireland then that country can tax it or not as they see fit. The US should basically be hands off that money unless it is merely taxing interest earned because that money then came to a US bank. Or at the most a tiny percent of taxes (like say 1%)
Perhaps they can take a leaf from Apple's book and charge a flat 30% tax on everything. The statute would be staggeringly small and would not favour one type of income over another. Half the reason for Congress existing would be eliminated.
Actually if they did that as a sales tax in exchange for dropping all income tax there are a lot of folks that support the idea. The income tax code is as big a mess and there are probably a lot of folks that are not reporting tons of tip and other cash income. But they are buying. Keep some basic items at a lower rate (or even none) like milk, bread, etc but things like cars, HDTVs, computers, even liquor and cigs. Flat rate that stuff at something like 20-30%. A hooker on the corner might not pay her full income taxes cause of the lack of a paper trail but she still has to buy clothes, condoms etc. Same for the drug dealer with his fly car with the new rims or even the illegal immigrant that snuck over the border.
and your Mitt's etc, no more loopholes like setting up a 'company' in the Caymans to funnel money through to pay almost nothing in income taxes. they will get nailed when they buy that new car etc.
Really? 100%? So Dateline had absolutely no reason to air an entire episode on Apple's offshore manufacturing partners?
1. Dateline is hardly credible.
2. Apple hasn't done anything illegal, that was their partners. And those same partners work for some 70 other companies that don't see to keep a rats corn hole about what is going on. Probably because they aren't getting called out over it
3. Mass murder??? Hyperbole much. You act like Apple has brought back the Nazi camps and is gassing Android users by the scores
Don't be 'livid' at Apple, be livid at the US tax code and the whack-job politicians that put it in place.
The tax rate in the US should be flat - 15% for everyone (corporations & individuals) across the board regardless of income. No silliness, no exceptions, etc. etc. etc. Simple, nothing to deduct, nothing to exempt, nothing to account for. Tax return form should be the size of a post-card.
Comments
These politicians need to actually do their jobs and put the shame on themselves. The lobbyists and accountants and lawyers are doing their job perfectly and within the legal framework of corporate America. If any blame is to be pointed, it's with the tax code, which is largely created AND defined by these outraged politicians.
He's a Republican....actually he's a Republican? Wait, what?
What is he thinking saying these things? Is he sure he's a Republican? Doesn't he know his party only cares about the rich and could caree less about America or Americans?
So confused...
With sincere apologies to Julius and Philip Epstein and Howard Koch....
RENAULT SENATOR: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is tax loopholes are going on in here!
This display of nerve leaves Rick taxpayers at a loss. The croupier lobbyist comes out of the gambling smoke-filled room and up to Renault Senator. He hands him a roll of bills.
CROUPIER LOBBYIST: Your winnings campaign contribution, sir.
RENAULT SENATOR: Oh. Thank you very much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408
Hey, even politicians are jumping on the Apple story click-bait. Would you have read this article if it was about Chuck's Waffles & Anvils?
You mean Chuck's Waffles & Anvils is also suing Apple!?!
100% agree and have been saying sine the "Buffett Rule" first got mentioned that if Buffett, Obama, or anyone else out there REALLY wanted to pay more, they could.
The easy, legal way? Forego itemizing deductions and choose the Standard Deduction ($11,500 this past year I believe) and viola! They would pay a HUGE amount in taxes.
Guessing they don't REALLY want to pay more, just want to stir up political points.
{/rant}
Apple doesn't pay the VAT, the consumer does. That's why it's bad for corporations selling products to evade the tax rate on earnings that consumers are subject to. Consumers get a high percentage deducted from income tax and then on every product, pay 20% in tax. Apple is only being taxed on their profits, which is the same as consumers being taxed on their earnings. Income tax for UK consumers isn't a flat tax though, the lowest earners can pay under 10%, while people earning say 500k per year can pay 50% income tax (e.g if you make £500k, you pay ~£250k tax).
A UK iPhone costs £500 without a contract. 20% of this (£83) is a tax on the consumer (after deducting this, the remainder is the equivalent price on the US Stores). The remaining £417 goes to Apple. This isn't profit though, just revenue and they tend to make 25% profits on their earnings (deducting parts, R&D, staff, stores, shipping etc) so the profit margin would be £104. Of that profit, they'd pay 24% (it's not 35%) = £25 but they don't, as they use Ireland and others to pay 12.5% or less (£13).
Per product, the consumer pays over 6x more tax than Apple currently pays and they pay their fair share of income tax on their earnings beforehand. Even if Apple paid the proper corporate tax rate, the consumer would pay 3x more tax per product.
To reiterate the point of Apple being the target, it's easy to forget as they have grown wealthy very quickly, but they now make more profit than any company in the world. That puts them in the spotlight for their taxes. While we can easily dismiss the hypocritical musings of politicians, the economy is not in a state where we can dismiss the issue. Money hasn't been destroyed to create this recession, it has just been displaced and it certainly hasn't gone to the lowest earners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall
Now you are going to try to school us that the Supreme Court has made all decisions in the best interests of freedom of We The People? Give me a break! Come on, you are smarter than that!
Perhaps you've forgotten the Constitution. It lays out the rules for settling disputes and clarifying issues that are uncertain. That mechanism is the Supreme Court. Whether you like their decision or not, the Constitution says that their decision is final (until Congress passes a law and the President signs it).
There's nothing in the Constitution that says that the Supreme court has to decide based on the best interests of freedom.
( in my best " western drawl"...)
Sir, <strong> you're not from around these parts are you? </strong>
I was wondering about the reason why a company would locate in Ireland.
Well Great Britain probably realized that this would happen and thus created the VAT... so while they lose out on Income tax, they do get a guaranteed amount at the Cash register...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Right. Congress can't balance the budget or reverse the gleeful deficit spending, but oh, we're going to get "livid" if Apple lawfully pays a lower tax rate.
...and doesn't spend enough of the savings on bribery lobbying.
I think you left out the senators most important concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar
I was wondering about the reason why a company would locate in Ireland.
Well Great Britain probably realized that this would happen and thus created the VAT... so while they lose out on Income tax, they do get a guaranteed amount at the Cash register...
Nothing new for the UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Shut up and toe the line before we vote you out. Or, better yet, if you're so enraged about this, where have you been for the past FORTY YEARS?!
this is the first time in 40 years that he could name drop Apple and get press for himself.
that said, Apple isn't 'side stepping' any laws. The laws created the loopholes they are using just as probably half the Fortune 500 companies use similar loopholes to reduce their taxes. Folks are jumping on apple because of it's size and the hit fodder but they aren't doing anything new or different than every other company that puts their offices in a state with lower taxes etc. Hell's Bells Amazon has been fighting the definition of 'physical presence' because they don't want to pay sales tax since that's a major reason many folks buy from them and not a local store. But some would say that all online should be sales taxed regardless. And you can bet that Amazon picked where their offices and warehouses are by what areas had the 'best' tax deals
I agree with this gentleman that there are some issues with the tax laws and less many of these loopholes are not cool. But to pick on Apple like they are doing something unique is wrong. So is demanding that companies be taxed on money they made outside of the country at the same rate as the money inside the country. Hell, I'm not sure I agree that money from outside the country should be taxed at all. If they made the money in, for example, Ireland then that country can tax it or not as they see fit. The US should basically be hands off that money unless it is merely taxing interest earned because that money then came to a US bank. Or at the most a tiny percent of taxes (like say 1%)
Reading this article I would thinking the exact same thing......
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly
Perhaps they can take a leaf from Apple's book and charge a flat 30% tax on everything. The statute would be staggeringly small and would not favour one type of income over another. Half the reason for Congress existing would be eliminated.
Actually if they did that as a sales tax in exchange for dropping all income tax there are a lot of folks that support the idea. The income tax code is as big a mess and there are probably a lot of folks that are not reporting tons of tip and other cash income. But they are buying. Keep some basic items at a lower rate (or even none) like milk, bread, etc but things like cars, HDTVs, computers, even liquor and cigs. Flat rate that stuff at something like 20-30%. A hooker on the corner might not pay her full income taxes cause of the lack of a paper trail but she still has to buy clothes, condoms etc. Same for the drug dealer with his fly car with the new rims or even the illegal immigrant that snuck over the border.
and your Mitt's etc, no more loopholes like setting up a 'company' in the Caymans to funnel money through to pay almost nothing in income taxes. they will get nailed when they buy that new car etc.
does seem like a win-win idea doesn't it
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoeric87
Really? 100%? So Dateline had absolutely no reason to air an entire episode on Apple's offshore manufacturing partners?
1. Dateline is hardly credible.
2. Apple hasn't done anything illegal, that was their partners. And those same partners work for some 70 other companies that don't see to keep a rats corn hole about what is going on. Probably because they aren't getting called out over it
3. Mass murder??? Hyperbole much. You act like Apple has brought back the Nazi camps and is gassing Android users by the scores
Don't be 'livid' at Apple, be livid at the US tax code and the whack-job politicians that put it in place.
The tax rate in the US should be flat - 15% for everyone (corporations & individuals) across the board regardless of income. No silliness, no exceptions, etc. etc. etc. Simple, nothing to deduct, nothing to exempt, nothing to account for. Tax return form should be the size of a post-card.
You just never hear congressmen "livid" over the nation's debt to China. They just blame the other party, blame Apple, and do nothing.