Apple rumored to switch to Nvidia graphics for new MacBook Pros

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  • Reply 41 of 63
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,282member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    I don't deny that descrete GPUs become harder to justify with each iteration of compute hardware. However Integrated GPUs (Ivy Bridge & Trinity) are a long way from providing replacement functionality in the likes of the MBPs. That will likely change in a couple of years but right now we still need descrete GPUs.

    As to OpenCL I'm not sure why you constantly poo poo it. OpenCL is perhaps one of Apples greatest success stories from a developer perspective. The movement to OpenCL has taken place throughout the industry as it is the best open solution out there to leverage computing resources often found in GPUs. I really see no basis for your position.


     


    To strengthen your point on OpenCL/OpenGL even Nvidia sees the writing on the wall with CUDA as they've been dumping their Nvidia PTX Branch into LLVM/Clang to become optimized for OpenCL [by working with the entire community to extend support for OpenCL] and have their entire stack optimized for Clang and it's LLVM infrastructure.


     


    Even the FOSS Community knows the number one desired approach to extending top flight apps [Blender, GIMP, Inkscape and more] is to leverage OpenCL. Blender 2.64 will have as much Kernel support for OpenCL 1.2 on Nvidia and AMD cards as possible. GIMP through it's GEGL backend and with help from AMD is moving it's backend concurrency stack to leverage the hell out of OpenCL.


     


    Adobe worked with AMD to optimize it's CS 6 suite to use OpenCL 1.2. Every major Engineering and CAD application in the industry is using OpenCL. Only Apple has OpenCL integrated into the Operating System. Right now the impact is being felt at the user space, but with more applications leveraging OpenCL on OS X the increased benefits will be even more noticeable as more intensive resource tasks gets pushed to discrete GPUs without the consumer realizing it all because the system isn't slowing down.

  • Reply 42 of 63
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


     


    Intel's integrated solution for GPU support is hitting it's theoretical ceiling. Keep believing their leaps forward. They will compromise their CPU sooner rather than later to strengthen their GPGPU integrated pipelines.



     


    Is that teh same way that Moore's Law has reached its theoretical end oh, roughly every 5 years since he first said it, yet progress keeps happening at about the same pace he said it would.  As to compromising the CPU, why wouldn't they?  They don't need much more in the way of speed, wht they need is more cores, more efficiency and people to learn how to write better multi-threaded code to take advantage.

  • Reply 43 of 63
    shadowxprshadowxpr Posts: 162member
    This is the new Kepler chip for mobile which means future proof gaming on macpros laptops. Best performance for laptops right now with a i7 CPU it will last...
  • Reply 44 of 63


    Could Apple please install the absolutely latest, most powerful mobile Nvidia graphics cards possible.


     


    It's disgraceful that Apple tends to install middle-of-the-line graphics cards in $2,0000 laptops. These are premium laptops we're buying -- give us top-of-the-line!

  • Reply 45 of 63
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post

    Could Apple please install the absolutely latest, most powerful mobile Nvidia graphics cards possible.


     


    But that's dumb. AND physically impossible.


     


    Quote:


    It's disgraceful that Apple tends to install middle-of-the-line graphics cards in $2,0000 laptops. These are premium laptops we're buying -- give us top-of-the-line!



     


    Then go buy something else that apparently suits your needs more. Who the heck said these are "premium" laptops?

  • Reply 46 of 63
    heffequeheffeque Posts: 139member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Do you still have the Mac? Did we learn a lesson?


    I live in Brazil now and I went back to Spain just for a short period of time. Even if I still had it, I couldn't get it fixed because here in Brazil there are no Apple Stores, just certified stores.

  • Reply 47 of 63
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    Could Apple please install the absolutely latest, most powerful mobile Nvidia graphics cards possible.


     


    It's disgraceful that Apple tends to install middle-of-the-line graphics cards in $2,0000 laptops. These are premium laptops we're buying -- give us top-of-the-line!



     


    If you want one, you should buy a gaming laptops that runs Windows. Apple has been using AMD cards. They go up to the 6770m. You could look at the 6870m or the 6970m. I don't think the 6970m is ever really offered outside of 17" gaming laptops. I'm not sure about the 6870m. In any case, if gpus are an absolute priority, you're better off with another computer brand. No matter what gpu they're using, their OpenGL implementations have been incredibly sloppy. While you don't have to like it, you're going to end up accepting it if you buy one. Regarding NVidia vs AMD, AMD has seen fewer driver problems relative to NVidia under OSX than Windows. 

  • Reply 48 of 63
    xioniumxionium Posts: 9member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    Could Apple please install the absolutely latest, most powerful mobile Nvidia graphics cards possible.


     


    It's disgraceful that Apple tends to install middle-of-the-line graphics cards in $2,0000 laptops. These are premium laptops we're buying -- give us top-of-the-line!





    I agree, I feel the same way - install the latest mobile Nvidia card & send me the bill. Macbook Pro's IMHO back-in-da'-day were considered PRO and featured the specs & the cost, not a low-end charity laptop. I agree with the notion that these laptops are Premium, and disagree with the guy who says they are not marketed as so. I certainly feel I am paying Premium price for a Premium product with Premium marketing gimmicks! =)

  • Reply 49 of 63
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,223moderator
    xionium wrote:
    I agree, I feel the same way - install the latest mobile Nvidia card & send me the bill. Macbook Pro's IMHO back-in-da'-day were considered PRO and featured the specs & the cost, not a low-end charity laptop. I agree with the notion that these laptops are Premium, and disagree with the guy who says they are not marketed as so. I certainly feel I am paying Premium price for a Premium product with Premium marketing gimmicks! =)

    The MBPs use some of the highest-end parts. The 15" models all have quad-core i7s. The higher-end GPUs like in the iMac use too much power, it's not really an issue of cost.

    6770M = 25-30W
    6970M = 75-100W

    Put a 6970M in a laptop and you need to make it so thick you can use it to reach high shelves and it lasts about an hour at full load:



    The same 30W (approx) restriction will exist for the incoming MBPs. This means they can't use the GTX series if they go with NVidia or 7970M if they go with AMD.

    The premium comes from the build quality and the highest-end parts that fit into that design. I find the display quality is a bit lacking but this might be resolved with the next update.
  • Reply 50 of 63
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    The MBPs use some of the highest-end parts. The 15" models all have quad-core i7s. The higher-end GPUs like in the iMac use too much power, it's not really an issue of cost.

    6770M = 25-30W

    6970M = 75-100W

    Put a 6970M in a laptop and you need to make it so thick you can use it to reach high shelves and it lasts about an hour at full load:



    The same 30W (approx) restriction will exist for the incoming MBPs. This means they can't use the GTX series if they go with NVidia or 7970M if they go with AMD.

    The premium comes from the build quality and the highest-end parts that fit into that design. I find the display quality is a bit lacking but this might be resolved with the next update.


    Those guys are just completely stupid. First Apple has never offered the most powerful options on the market. In raw specs, they go to upper mid range, including on the mac pro. Now regarding the gpus suggested, these are typically used in 17" gaming laptops, and a couple 17 mobile workstations use the Quadro 5000m, and that's still a Fermi card. You're unlikely to see a Kepler version for a little while. The point is that they're reserved for people who would typically use a desktop, yet need something that can be transported. The overuse of the word premium has become incredibly annoying. These are all mass market items cranked out in high volume. There's no need to justify your purchase by assigning it a meaningless label.

  • Reply 51 of 63
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    hmm wrote: »
    Those guys are just completely stupid. First Apple has never offered the most powerful options on the market.

    There will likely always be a number of shortsighted individuals that only see raw specs as measure of highest quality.

    Even worse than the spec sheet schmucks are the ones that look at marketing keywords over capabilities (Could also also be the same people?). For instance, wait until the dual-core Cortex-A15 (or Apple's design based off the ARM reference) arrive in Apple products. I'm sure we'll get plenty of dissenters posting how Apple is ripping us off and Samsung is better because they were using quad-core chips in 2011.
  • Reply 52 of 63
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    There will likely always be a number of shortsighted individuals that only see raw specs as measure of highest quality.

    Even worse than the spec sheet schmucks are the ones that look at marketing keywords over capabilities (Could also also be the same people?). For instance, wait until the dual-core Cortex-A15 (or Apple's design based off the ARM reference) arrive in Apple products. I'm sure we'll get plenty of dissenters posting how Apple is ripping us off and Samsung is better because they were using quad-core chips in 2011.




    The problem with looking at raw specs there wasn't just that they're looking at specs. They're picking out niche items that are commonly found on 17" Alienware or Sager gaming laptops. I think the Quadro versions are on the 17" Dell M series and HP elitebooks. Even with these machines, those are often upgrade options rather than standard, so you may be looking at a 17" laptop near (or sometimes above) the $3k range. Typically they're a little heavier and bulkier, but I'd want a laptop case for anything in that size range. It just doesn't make sense to request specialty design features on a computer not aimed at one of those markets. If that means they don't want to buy one, Windows is fine. Just buying another brand doesn't mean their laptop is going to explode as soon as the warranty runs out, and I doubt those guys are heavily invested in Apple specific software.

  • Reply 53 of 63
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member


    Apple knows what they are doing in my view. Could they go a bit higher? I am sure they could however they would need to install better cooling in their systems as well. The cooling systems in the gaming laptops I'm sure are more than adequate, no?

  • Reply 54 of 63
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Call me silly but I can't see a compelling reason for Apple to go with NVidia! At least not in a Mac Book. The only possible reason would be performance per watt far greater than AMD offers. I don't think NVidia has a significant advantage here at all.
  • Reply 55 of 63
    heffequeheffeque Posts: 139member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Call me silly but I can't see a compelling reason for Apple to go with NVidia! At least not in a Mac Book. The only possible reason would be performance per watt far greater than AMD offers. I don't think NVidia has a significant advantage here at all.


    I do like ATi better than nVidia, but sadly for ATi, Kepler seems to have a better performance per watt than GCN.

  • Reply 56 of 63
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Call me silly but I can't see a compelling reason for Apple to go with NVidia! At least not in a Mac Book. The only possible reason would be performance per watt far greater than AMD offers. I don't think NVidia has a significant advantage here at all.


    NVidia still has that negative stigma, but both companies have released problematic cards in the past. Marvin mentioned the X1900XT which was an old ATI card used in the mac pro, but the mac pro has seen a lot of problematic graphics card implementations. I'm wondering what we will see this round.


     


    Forgot to mention this, but I'm pretty sure kepler is only used on one or two cards thus far. It may be next year before we see the majority of NVidia's current line running on kepler.

  • Reply 57 of 63
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    heffeque wrote: »
    I do like ATi better than nVidia, but sadly for ATi, Kepler seems to have a better performance per watt than GCN.

    Interesting because I see conflicting data there. I'd personally would like to see the power considerations with Single and Double precision OpenCL work loads. Maybe a little three D thrown in there. The reality of laptops is that Apple uses the Intel chip for the light work so descrete GPU selection should be biased towards the more demanding GPU uses.

    In any event a couple of more weeks should resolve this debate.

    By the way semi accurate has this to say about NVidias new cards: http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/01/physics-hardware-makes-keplergk104-fast/.

    As to power and performance benchmarks it is far more of a mixed bag than one might imagine. We will have to wait for laptop specific parts to come. Honestly though going into his blind, on a laptop I'd go for with an AMD chip. Simply because it does compute so well.
  • Reply 58 of 63
    xioniumxionium Posts: 9member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    ... The overuse of the word premium has become incredibly annoying. ...



    LOL I agree! I just got some 'PREMIUM Luggage Tags' in the mail (cheap plastic) from Continental Airlines. Everything is PREMIUM today. PREMIUM Customer Support, PREMIUM Service, PREMIER Line, PREMIUM GAS,  .... Preeeemmmiuuummmm... h3ll, typing PREMIUM LAPTOP into Google brings up 1st result 'Hp Premium Notebooks(SM)(R)(TM)'! It says it's Premium, so it must be good...~!

  • Reply 59 of 63
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member


    <--- George Carlin - Advertising Lullaby (RIP Carlin, from 1999's You are all Diseased)


     


    Somehow I felt this was appropriate.


     


    Edit: Keeping this on topic. It could also be a money thing and a better deal was offered by nvidia. 

  • Reply 60 of 63
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Sadly you can see right in these forums people applying value to the word PREMIUM with out evaluating the underlying device. Apple trades on this stupidity too and frankly is why they can even consider selling a machine like the Mini of Mac PRO. Neither of these machines are really competitive in the marketplace anymore, yet they have an image amongst some as PREMIUM devices.
    xionium wrote: »
    LOL I agree! I just got some 'PREMIUM Luggage Tags' in the mail (cheap plastic) from Continental Airlines. Everything is PREMIUM today. PREMIUM Customer Support, PREMIUM Service, PREMIER Line, PREMIUM GAS,  .... Preeeemmmiuuummmm... h3ll, typing PREMIUM LAPTOP into Google brings up 1st result 'Hp Premium Notebooks(SM)(R)(TM)'! It says it's Premium, so it must be good...~!
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