Actually, I am expecting to be be blown away by something that far exceeds Google. Apple don't normally enter a new area, be it phones or tablets and now serious mapping, without making everything that went before obsolete.
Of course at first many won't get it, as with iPhone and the 'you can't type with two thumbs on a tiny plastic keyboard' that greeted it, so I fully expect many to scream for a year or two that Apple failed. Only when their favorite products start copying Apple will they change their tune. By which time of course the patent case will be going to court. .
Wow you have a lot of faith in Apple. I am skeptical. If Apple stays on course we will get a map application that is what Apple thinks we need not what we might want. They will likely have some sort of implementation that uses that patent where you only see the major streets that pertain to your guidance offered by your genius trip advisor.
And what is the world wide map coverage going to be like? How about street view, which is now available for an incredible number of cities around the world?
I hope this move by Apple doesn't put us back 20 years. It would be a reason enough for me to abandon the platform if the maps suck.
WTF?!?
What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Sure, I bet there will be elements of the new maps that will suck in the first iteration but at the same time Apple's maps will most likely offer a few things not available in Google Maps.
It's only natural. Open Street Maps is killer stuff, as well as Leaflet, and even Yahoo Placefinder has a much more affordable and sensible(!) geocode service.
Live Google Free. It's Possible, Right Now. Take Your First Step Today.
I assume the OpenStreetMaps comment is sarcasm. The only thing "killer" about OSM is the fact you could turn onto one of their streets and end up in the water. That's exactly what would happen in my neighborhood. About half the streets are labeled wrong, depicted wrong or, don't exist. There are streets going over large bodies of water that do not exist. The neighborhood was tracted in the 1930's and is in a large metropolitan area. Not to mention each gps app uses different versions of the maps, frequently in conflict with eachother.
Wow you have a lot of faith in Apple. I am skeptical. If Apple stays on course we will get a map application that is what Apple thinks we need not what we might want. They will likely have some sort of implementation that uses that patent where you only see the major streets that pertain to your guidance offered by your genius trip advisor.
I'm a little perplexed by how big this news appears to be ... Really!? Maps?
What I have been using on e iPhone since 2007 is perfectly fine. How revolutionary could any offering from anybody be? You type in an address, it shows you where it is and gives you turn by turn directions. Adding audio while you drive would be good, and expected.
From the first printed maps, to the current state of affairs, maps are evolutionary, not revolutionary. Short of driving my car for me, or manipulating my feet to get me there while I do something else, I really don't see what anybody, even Apple could innovate here.
Actually, I am expecting to be be blown away by something that far exceeds Google. Apple don't normally enter a new area, be it phones or tablets and now serious mapping, without making everything that went before obsolete.
Of course at first many won't get it, as with iPhone and the 'you can't type with two thumbs on a tiny plastic keyboard' that greeted it, so I fully expect many to scream for a year or two that Apple failed. Only when their favorite products start copying Apple will they change their tune. By which time of course the patent case will be going to court. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Yep indeed I do. Have had since 1979.
Your faith will be rewarded although navigation with dynamic routing (often improperly referred to as "turn-by-turn" directions) is likely to be the "killer feature" for the next version of iPhone:
Accoring to Jessica E. Vascellaro and Amir Errata of the Wall Street Journal, Maps is used by more than 90% of U.S. iPhone users (although no data source is provided) which virtually guarantees success for any new version of Maps with relatively comparable features to the current version
Apple's Maps solution will likely use Load Balanced, Redundant Servers hosting the Geodata in Random Access Memory as "Shards" similar to iCloud (which alredy serves more than 100 million users) this will enable Apple to provide frequent, incremental improvements to their service as well as offer their service in non-traditional (for Apple) markets (automobiles?)
Placebase Maps with “Pushpin” is a rival to Google Maps with extensive APIs including over 12,000 variables and layers
C3 Technologies solution is superior to Google Maps 3D due to photorealistic imagery with higher resolution than Google Earth (10 cm) including street level photography using oblique imagery and user generated imagesrather than SketchUp 3D modeling
According to his LinkedIn profile,Apple has hired Ethan Sorrelgreen, formerly of NextBus which is known for realtime transit data
According to their LinkedIn profiles,Apple has hired Scott Dudgeon and Valerie Yakich previouslyofInrix, provider of traffic information, directions and driver services
There are many components of Apple Maps that aren't affiliated with Google: From the iPhone 4S Legal Notices:
I'm a little perplexed by how big this news appears to be ... Really!? [A phone]?
What I have been using [before] 2007 is perfectly fine. How revolutionary could any offering from anybody be?
From the first printed maps, to the current state of affairs, [phones] are evolutionary, not revolutionary. I really don't see what anybody, even Apple could innovate here.
So really, why is this NEWS?
Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac, even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues.
With the list of Apple equipment you show on your footer you write you would abandon the platform over maps. Something doesn't seem quite right there./ smile.
True, something is not quite right. Apple is lately turning into corporate penny pinchers and the rumors of abandoning the products I do care about like Mac Pro and 17'' MBP are not helping either.
What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Sure, I bet there will be elements of the new maps that will suck in the first iteration but at the same time Apple's maps will most likely offer a few things not available in Google Maps.
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
That was put up the last time it went down, when they were adding the Nest thermostat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I think that Apple's maps will kind of suck at first.
We really need to prepare for this. We need to be shouting it at ALL users here, old and new. Get them in this mindset NOW, before it's too late. Yes, it will have Siri integration for absolutely everything, and it might even have turn by turn. But it WILL suck at first. There's no doubt about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
…street view…
Street View is a gimmick, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
WTF?!? What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Because Street View is the most important thing in the entire world, and any mapping system that doesn't have it exactly the same way that Google has it is an utter failure and will be the death of all mapping applications.
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
I totally agree 100%. Google maps is constantly updating their data, perhaps as often as yearly or less, as I have noticed the satellite view and the street view of my house has been updated a number of times and the bus schedules are constantly changing, which they keep up with as well. Given the frequency of the updates required it is entirely possible that a competitor, given enough financial investment, could duplicate the necessary data collection within one year. And then they need to sustain it at that frequency as well.
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
Apple's core competency is not having a server infrastructure to support 100 million users?!
WTF, dude?!
Mapping and creating mapping applications... maybe... but not knowing about server infrastructure???... give your head a shake.
You sound like Ballmer as he was laughing about the iPhone.
Read my comment again...
"What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??"
Apple has entered new territory (for Apple) 3 times in the last 10 years and dominated from the first step.
True, something is not quite right. Apple is lately turning into corporate penny pinchers and the rumors of abandoning the products I do care about like Mac Pro and 17'' MBP are not helping either.
Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac, even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues.
I don't have any amnesia actually, I remember everything very well. Don't forget that when they made that low end crap (and we all know it was the various morons Apple had as CEOs back then who were to blame) what else was available out there as an alternative ... DOS then Windows in one form or another.
Believe me, I was very happy with all my Apple gear. After Apple ][s. ///s, Lisa and Mac Plus, SE 30 etc. etc.I had top of the line Mac IIs as they evolved through to Mac Pros and now MBPs. It isn't as if I haven't also had PCs from the first ever IBM PC that was available (shipped into the UK as a grey import), XT , Osborne Portable, Victor and everything up to todays stuff. So I am not an Apple only user, just an Apple only fan.
Because Street View is the most important thing in the entire world, and any mapping system that doesn't have it exactly the same way that Google has it is an utter failure and will be the death of all mapping applications.
He/she talks like street view will no longer be available on Apple products.
If he/she wants street view then go to Google Maps.
My guess is that Apple will offer something a tad different... an application where maps is what is important... not looking to see the colour of someone's house.
Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac, even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues.
IIci??!
I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.
He/she talks like street view will no longer be available on Apple products.
If he/she wants street view then go to Google Maps.
My guess is that Apple will offer something a tad different... an application where maps is what is important... not looking to see the colour of someone's house.
I think that is the concern: There will be no Google Maps on iOS. If Apple replaces the default maps application on iOS they will likely disallow Google from releasing a stand alone maps app as it would violate their rule of no app can duplicate core iOS functionality.
I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.
I think you got your model numbers mixed up.
Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.
Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.
Mediocre?
Hardly.
The IIci was the Mac of choice amongst business and graphics professionals. Quite a bit cheaper than the IIfx but just as capable... we were willing to wait for 10 minutes for things to render. ;-)
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Actually, I am expecting to be be blown away by something that far exceeds Google. Apple don't normally enter a new area, be it phones or tablets and now serious mapping, without making everything that went before obsolete.
Of course at first many won't get it, as with iPhone and the 'you can't type with two thumbs on a tiny plastic keyboard' that greeted it, so I fully expect many to scream for a year or two that Apple failed. Only when their favorite products start copying Apple will they change their tune. By which time of course the patent case will be going to court. .
Wow you have a lot of faith in Apple. I am skeptical. If Apple stays on course we will get a map application that is what Apple thinks we need not what we might want. They will likely have some sort of implementation that uses that patent where you only see the major streets that pertain to your guidance offered by your genius trip advisor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
And what is the world wide map coverage going to be like? How about street view, which is now available for an incredible number of cities around the world?
I hope this move by Apple doesn't put us back 20 years. It would be a reason enough for me to abandon the platform if the maps suck.
WTF?!?
What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Sure, I bet there will be elements of the new maps that will suck in the first iteration but at the same time Apple's maps will most likely offer a few things not available in Google Maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
It's only natural. Open Street Maps is killer stuff, as well as Leaflet, and even Yahoo Placefinder has a much more affordable and sensible(!) geocode service.
Live Google Free. It's Possible, Right Now. Take Your First Step Today.
I assume the OpenStreetMaps comment is sarcasm. The only thing "killer" about OSM is the fact you could turn onto one of their streets and end up in the water. That's exactly what would happen in my neighborhood. About half the streets are labeled wrong, depicted wrong or, don't exist. There are streets going over large bodies of water that do not exist. The neighborhood was tracted in the 1930's and is in a large metropolitan area. Not to mention each gps app uses different versions of the maps, frequently in conflict with eachother.
Yep indeed I do. Have had since 1979.
What I have been using on e iPhone since 2007 is perfectly fine. How revolutionary could any offering from anybody be? You type in an address, it shows you where it is and gives you turn by turn directions. Adding audio while you drive would be good, and expected.
From the first printed maps, to the current state of affairs, maps are evolutionary, not revolutionary. Short of driving my car for me, or manipulating my feet to get me there while I do something else, I really don't see what anybody, even Apple could innovate here.
So really, why is this NEWS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Actually, I am expecting to be be blown away by something that far exceeds Google. Apple don't normally enter a new area, be it phones or tablets and now serious mapping, without making everything that went before obsolete.
Of course at first many won't get it, as with iPhone and the 'you can't type with two thumbs on a tiny plastic keyboard' that greeted it, so I fully expect many to scream for a year or two that Apple failed. Only when their favorite products start copying Apple will they change their tune. By which time of course the patent case will be going to court. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Yep indeed I do. Have had since 1979.
Your faith will be rewarded although navigation with dynamic routing (often improperly referred to as "turn-by-turn" directions) is likely to be the "killer feature" for the next version of iPhone:
Accoring to Jessica E. Vascellaro and Amir Errata of the Wall Street Journal, Maps is used by more than 90% of U.S. iPhone users (although no data source is provided) which virtually guarantees success for any new version of Maps with relatively comparable features to the current version
Jessica and Amir further state that “Mobile ads associated with maps or locations are estimated to account for about 25% of the roughly $2.5 billion spent on mobile ads in 2012, according to Opus Research…”
Apple's Maps solution will likely use Load Balanced, Redundant Servers hosting the Geodata in Random Access Memory as "Shards" similar to iCloud (which alredy serves more than 100 million users) this will enable Apple to provide frequent, incremental improvements to their service as well as offer their service in non-traditional (for Apple) markets (automobiles?)
Placebase Maps with “Pushpin” is a rival to Google Maps with extensive APIs including over 12,000 variables and layers
Poly9 Globe is a competitor for Google Earth with a minimal footprint (303 kb) that can be connected to any satellite imagery data source although improvements in speed are possible as Poly9 does not “make use of graphic hardware acceleration (e.g. OpenGL / DirectX)” (2) "Unlike Google or Bing, all of our maps are 360° explorable," C3 Chief Strategy Officer Paul Smith said earlier this year. "Everything, every building, every tree, every landmark, from the city center to the suburbs, is captured in 3D—not just a few select buildings."
C3 Technologies solution is superior to Google Maps 3D due to photorealistic imagery with higher resolution than Google Earth (10 cm) including street level photography using oblique imagery and user generated images rather than SketchUp 3D modeling
Apple Maps on iOS has used Apple location database services for several years which likely uses a Categorized, Location Popularity Index to improve search requests
An important component of Apple’s solution may be Presentation of information in a format relevant to the user via “Schematic Maps” with Points of Interest visually augmented
According to his LinkedIn profile, Apple has hired Ethan Sorrelgreen, formerly of NextBus which is known for realtime transit data
According to their LinkedIn profiles, Apple has hired Scott Dudgeon and Valerie Yakich previously of Inrix, provider of traffic information, directions and driver services
There are many components of Apple Maps that aren't affiliated with Google: From the iPhone 4S Legal Notices:
Property parcel data for USA. © CoreLogic Inc., 2011.
Map data © Getchee, 2011.
Business Listing data © Localeze, 2011.
Mapping data for Australia and New Zealand. © MapData Sciences Pty Ltd.Inc., 2011, PSMA www.nowwhere.com.au/lic/NowWhereLic.htm
Postal data © DMTI, 2011. This software contains Postal Code OM Data copied by Apple under a sub-license from DMTI Spatial Inc., a party directly licensed by Canada Post Corporation. The Canada Post Corporation file from which this data was copied is dated [insert date].
© TomTom.
MultiNet® data of Austria
MultiNet® data of Denmark
MultiNet® data of Northern Ireland
MultiNet® data of Norway
MultiNet® data of Russia
MultiNet® data of Switzerland
MultiNet® data of The Netherlands
MultiNet® data of France
Neighborhood data © Urban Mapping, 2011.
Map data © 2011 Waze.
I've heard that before (see above).
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Yep indeed I do. Have had since 1979.
Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac, even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
With the list of Apple equipment you show on your footer you write you would abandon the platform over maps. Something doesn't seem quite right there./ smile.
True, something is not quite right. Apple is lately turning into corporate penny pinchers and the rumors of abandoning the products I do care about like Mac Pro and 17'' MBP are not helping either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
WTF?!?
What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Sure, I bet there will be elements of the new maps that will suck in the first iteration but at the same time Apple's maps will most likely offer a few things not available in Google Maps.
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Back up... Father's Day update?
That was put up the last time it went down, when they were adding the Nest thermostat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I think that Apple's maps will kind of suck at first.
We really need to prepare for this. We need to be shouting it at ALL users here, old and new. Get them in this mindset NOW, before it's too late. Yes, it will have Siri integration for absolutely everything, and it might even have turn by turn. But it WILL suck at first. There's no doubt about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
…street view…
Street View is a gimmick, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
WTF?!? What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??
Because Street View is the most important thing in the entire world, and any mapping system that doesn't have it exactly the same way that Google has it is an utter failure and will be the death of all mapping applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
I totally agree 100%. Google maps is constantly updating their data, perhaps as often as yearly or less, as I have noticed the satellite view and the street view of my house has been updated a number of times and the bus schedules are constantly changing, which they keep up with as well. Given the frequency of the updates required it is entirely possible that a competitor, given enough financial investment, could duplicate the necessary data collection within one year. And then they need to sustain it at that frequency as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Mapping and creating mapping applications and server infrastructure to support 100 million users is not exactly Apple's core competency. Right now Google maps work, and work really good, and this is crucial have amazing world wide coverage. And even things like street view work for a surprising number of places world wide.
What makes you think Apple will have this data as well for random places around the world. Is Apple going to invest millions of dollars and drive through cities around the world to record streets or launch dedicated satellites to create 3d maps of places to match or better Google? Have they done this already or are they launching a product that will take several generation before it catches up with Google as of now?
Maps and mapping is not a UI problem. It's a data acquisition problem first. And then server infrastructure to make it available to ridiculous number of concurrent users second. Only then is it a device UI and presentation problem.
Apple's core competency is not having a server infrastructure to support 100 million users?!
WTF, dude?!
Mapping and creating mapping applications... maybe... but not knowing about server infrastructure???... give your head a shake.
You sound like Ballmer as he was laughing about the iPhone.
Read my comment again...
"What is there about Apple that would make you think they would turn the clock back 20 years!!??"
Apple has entered new territory (for Apple) 3 times in the last 10 years and dominated from the first step.
I hope we see a new Mac Pro in a few weeks
I don't have any amnesia actually, I remember everything very well. Don't forget that when they made that low end crap (and we all know it was the various morons Apple had as CEOs back then who were to blame) what else was available out there as an alternative ... DOS then Windows in one form or another.
Believe me, I was very happy with all my Apple gear. After Apple ][s. ///s, Lisa and Mac Plus, SE 30 etc. etc.I had top of the line Mac IIs as they evolved through to Mac Pros and now MBPs. It isn't as if I haven't also had PCs from the first ever IBM PC that was available (shipped into the UK as a grey import), XT , Osborne Portable, Victor and everything up to todays stuff. So I am not an Apple only user, just an Apple only fan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because Street View is the most important thing in the entire world, and any mapping system that doesn't have it exactly the same way that Google has it is an utter failure and will be the death of all mapping applications.
He/she talks like street view will no longer be available on Apple products.
If he/she wants street view then go to Google Maps.
My guess is that Apple will offer something a tad different... an application where maps is what is important... not looking to see the colour of someone's house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac, even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues.
IIci??!
I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.
I think you got your model numbers mixed up.
IIsi maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
He/she talks like street view will no longer be available on Apple products.
If he/she wants street view then go to Google Maps.
My guess is that Apple will offer something a tad different... an application where maps is what is important... not looking to see the colour of someone's house.
I think that is the concern: There will be no Google Maps on iOS. If Apple replaces the default maps application on iOS they will likely disallow Google from releasing a stand alone maps app as it would violate their rule of no app can duplicate core iOS functionality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
IIci??!
I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.
I think you got your model numbers mixed up.
Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.
Mediocre?
Hardly.
The IIci was the Mac of choice amongst business and graphics professionals. Quite a bit cheaper than the IIfx but just as capable... we were willing to wait for 10 minutes for things to render. ;-)
By the way, the IIfx came after the IIci.