Apple still expected to retire 17-inch MacBook Pro in 2012

1235710

Comments

  • Reply 81 of 183
    smallwheelssmallwheels Posts: 584member


    Years ago I wanted the largest laptop screen possible because it would be used mostly on my desk. Eventually I owned an external monitor for my laptop and that changed my mind. My laptop is always connected to a mouse and external keyboard when at my desk. It is just easier to use it that way. Now I would prefer a super powerful tiny computer with a video out and plenty of ports. The big screen can stay on the desk. Whenever I need to go out to show someone something in person, the small computer screen is fine.


     


    The thing that annoys me about Apple is they don't build powerful small computers. They just get by with average level processors these days on their main lines. Other brands have been using the latest tech first. The Mini is almost always a year behind. Only this year has Apple been leading with the mid level tech. At least that is an improvement. It would be more interesting if Apple would lead with really high tech items and price them well. Apple doesn't do that. They are just an alternative to Dell and HP in the computer arena. Their big draw is the OS not the hardware.


     


    Ubuntu and the other Linux variants are extremely close to having all the same bells and whistles as OS X. In some instances they're leading with features. I've been enjoying the latest Linux offerings for just two years and I really have almost everything I can get in OS X. To me Apple has lost its appeal because of their sluggish rate of refreshing their products. They're still in the running but nowadays I'm actually looking at other brands. Now that I know how to install an alternative OS on Windows machines I can view them as hardware devices instead of crappy Windows devices. That gives me a freedom I didn't have before learning about Linux.


     


    Alternative manufacturers such as System 76 are offering some high tech solutions equal to or better than some Apple products. As these alternative manufacturers get more capital they'll be able to offer better products than Apple. If we want to be nostalgic about how Apple started in a garage offering superior hardware, and we want to experience that again, then we could look to other small manufacturers offering expensive (but better) hardware today. Such companies exist. Are you willing to make that investment in a low volume manufacture to get something superior now? If so then jump ship and leave Apple. Embrace a new manufacturer and give them a chance. If their products work great then promote them and be able to say ten years from now that you were there near the beginning. Many people visiting this forum brag that they have been with Apple from the beginning. Maybe it's time for them to find another new company to support if Apple isn't giving them what they want anymore.


     


    With Linux and small US manufacturers out there, we do have alternatives if we're willing to try something new and ...Think Different.

  • Reply 82 of 183
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mario View Post




    Yet another person that does not understand relationship between resolution and screen size. Resolution is entirely independent of screen size. iPad 3 has screen 10'' screen with 2048x1536 pixels. But you don't see more on screen than you do on a typical 13'' laptop with 1280x800 pixels. That's because more pixels (almost 3 times as many) are used to render UI elements. If you just upped the pixels and continued to render stuff with as little pixels as on a smaller resolution, everything on screen would be incredibly tiny.


     


    On a 72 DPI screen 10 point font might be rendered with only 20 pixels, but on 300 DPI screen the same 10 point font might be rendered with 100 pixels. This means you see less of stuff on screen, but the stuff you do see is rendered with many more pixels, which means finer detail is better and aliasing is gone.


     


    In short, if you take a typical web page on iPad and 13'' Macbook Pro, text has same physical size, but the text on iPad is rendered with more pixels looking sharper. You don't see more of text on iPad 3, in fact you see less of it.



     


    Exactly why large screen Androids have been selling so well.  Size does matter.  And improving resolution only gets you so far.  But people will always parrot Apple's arguments...until Apple makes the change themselves.  Then it was utterly obvious.  If Apple introduces a 4inch screen on the iPhone, not a single poster here will ever talk about how size doesn't matter when you have high resolution, ever again.  But they'll keep using the same argument if Apple cans the 17" MBP and you stick up for it. 


     


    I wouldn't blame Apple though, for the antics of fanboys.

  • Reply 83 of 183
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member


    This is a stupid article. Axe the MacBookPro altogether?  Yeah, right.  If Apple discontinued the MacBook, and they are coming out with a new Mac Book?  And now they are going to axe the MacBookPro for MacBooks?


     


    It sounds like someone just got their 420 card and seems to be celebrating a little too much.

  • Reply 84 of 183
    tokenusertokenuser Posts: 69member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Well, let's see. They did what I just said on the iPhone. They did what I just said on the iPad.


     


    They're obviously NOT going to do it on their computers. Because… why?



    <sigh>


    Sitting in front of a computer? Great ...


    Is it running OSX? Perfect ...


     


    Go to your "System Preferences" on a OSX device. 


    Look at the "Displays" settings.


    How many resolutions are list for you - personally, I see 9 for the monitor in front of me, and 6-8 (if you count stretched) on the laptop LCD.


     


    OK, now go to the "Settings" app on an iPad (I don't have an iPhone with me at the moment ... but pretend and play along anyway).


    Go to the "Display" settings.


     


    What? Can't find it?? The iPhone and iPad operate at a FIXED resolution.


    If a program is written to take advantage of the retina display - it uses those elements.


    If a program is written for a regular display, it uses those element.


    If you are using a program written for a non retina display it does algorithmic magicipokery to scale the display and fill in the pixel gaps such that the display is smoothed out.


     


     


    A desktop display and an iOS device display are different beasts. Apple will let people run the screen at native resolutions. If people decide to run software at lower resolutions, they will apply the same techniques they currently use (such as subpixel rendering) to smooth out the expanded screen.


     


    That extra clarity you refer to with a retina display comes because there is extra screen space. I'd be shocked if the OSX model didn't let you choose between clarity and screen space. If I don't want my NeuBauhausBold fold rendered in all its pixel perfection with subpixel rendering making it smooth as glass, but instead choose a stock standard font that renders so that its legible on screen and allows me to see more of my code at once) - that is my choice (my eyesight is fine).
  • Reply 85 of 183
    z3r0z3r0 Posts: 238member


    I wouldn't mind a 19 or 21 inch Macbook Pro.


     


    13 inch sells more not because a smaller screen is preferred, but because its the lowest price point. If Apple would lower prices bigger sizes would sell more.

  • Reply 86 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    emig647 wrote: »
    I don't believe it...
    As presented it does seem questionable. However I could see a transition coming.
    I seriously doubt this guy is privileged to what apple is doing in 2013. Most devs I work with are on 15" MBPs, for them to just take it away, just doesn't seem logical.
    This makes no sense, the rumored 15" MacBook would very much be Pro quality performance just without the optical. In fact if the rumors about better battery life are true it would be more of a "Pro" machine than the Pro.

    Beyond all of that you seem to imply that developers can't recognize which is the better machine for their needs. I will counter buy saying that developers and other Pros are by far more likely to choose the best machine for their needs. If the descriptions here are even remotely accurate many would quickly migrate away from the current MBPs. What has been described is a far better machine than the current MBP line up.
    I do rarely see the 17" in the wild any more. I remember one year at WWDC it was a dominating notebook, but not so much now days. 
    It was a fad for most users. while a few can certainly make use of such a platform, many users have reverted to what is practicle, portable and suitable for the job at hand.
    I can picture them being able to do this with a high res display. We shall see.

    Actually I think TB and auxiliary displays play a big part in making this practicle. Easy reliable hook up to desktop displays makes up for the small screens when stationary. TB is Apples docking solution that is universal across all laptops.
  • Reply 87 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    The 13" MBP has been Apples strongest selling laptop for a very long time. Even with the advent of the AIRs it is still the strongest selling Laptop in their lineup. So I don't see these figures as unrealistic.
    jragosta wrote: »
    So you accept everything you read? How in the world would this analyst know Apple's sales by product to within 0.1%?
    You can trace the source of this rumor. Some time ago, an analyst stated that Apple sold 30 13" MBPs for every 17" unit sold and that the 13" accounted for 50% of sales. There was no evidence to back their claim and no methodology - yet everyone seems to have accepted it even though the results just don't look plausible:
    13" 50%
    15" 48.3%
    17" 1.7%
    That distribution doesn't sound plausible - since the price differential between the 13" and 15" is close to the same as the differential between the 15" and 17".
    I'll believe it when I see it.

    Price has very little to do with what people buy.
  • Reply 88 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Which is pretty much what he is saying. For many users the extra working space of a 17" screen is important. This would be especially the case if you are working with text which is still the same size on screen.

    I really don't know if the 17" is dead or not. If you read the stuff this guy (the analyst) is posting about the new line up it looks like most of the article was pulled out of a dark place. He hedges everything said and there is no indication of inside Apple knowledge.

    I can see the 17" being trimmed from the lineup as very few are using such machines anymore. However I'm not convinced that Apple wants to leave such a huge opening in the line up. Frankly they might not have access to a suitable screen yet.
    Do you not understand what a retina display will do? It's pixel quadrupling. For every one pixel before, there will be four pixels now. It's clarity, not extra screen space.
  • Reply 89 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Niether did Steve! You need to realize that people in these positions have employees to handle or filter mail. If Cook or Steve ever spent the time required to read all of their mail they would get nothing done.
    scotty321 wrote: »
    If you don't like this decision, you can try to appeal to Tim Cook at: [email protected]
    Although he doesn't read all his email messages from strangers, like Steve did.
  • Reply 90 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    mario wrote: »

    Apple users are so decidedly stupid that you guys can't insult me any more.

    You have insulted yourself by responding to the rants from an analyst that probably knows nothing about what Apple is up too.
  • Reply 91 of 183
    sensisensi Posts: 346member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eksodos View Post


     


     


    You just have to trust Apple to make the best decisions for consumers. I am a 17" MacBook Pro owner and I love the product. But if Apple discontinues the 17" model this year, then I'll support their decision and reward their bravery by purchasing the 15" model. You can't walk away from this Apple family just because you don't get everything you want all the time. Apple is wonderful company, they deserve our ongoing support by buying the amazing products they continue to unleash upon us.



    So he should surrender to a smaller screen because a multi-billion dollar company deserves his ongoing support for this "bravery"? Hopefully it is sarcasm...

  • Reply 92 of 183
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    The thing that annoys me about Apple is they don't build powerful small computers.

    Huh?

    The MacBook Air was miles ahead of the competition (mostly netbooks) when it was released.

    The Mac Mini was far ahead of other 'micro' computers you could buy at the time it came out.

    The MacBook Pro is the fastest laptop available according to some PC magazines.

    And, of course, the iPhone and iPad completely revolutionized the market's understanding of 'small computers'.

    How in the world would you conclude that Apple doesn't build powerful small computers?
  • Reply 93 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Come on get a life here. You are whining in a very emotional way about the postings of an analyst that may know nothing about what Apple is up too.
    It seems like now that Apple is on top of the hill they care less and less about catering to us long time, loyal mac users that have been there with them for 15 years plus... you remember us, right?
    Why are you posting this crap? Apple has yet to release anything or say anything official.
    You know the ones that had to jump through hoops to send documents and emails to windows users. The ones that used to get laughed at all the time for using macs... the ones that kept the company alive, when it should have been dead.
    So now we have to contend with service and treatment we just aren't used to as mac customers... with mac back in the day, it was all about service, and the customer.
    This is bull crap, I still get excellent service from Apple and frankly the products they sell are bleeding edge relative to the rest of the market.
    They always went the extra mile with the little things for the loyal customers, that's one of the reasons we loved them so much. 
    Believe me, with the amount of financial surplus they have acquired at this point, keeping a 17" pro model and the G5 tower is NO sweat off their backs financially.
    So has Apple actually announced the discontinuation of the 17" MBP.? Have you actually evaluated unreleased product to determine it is no longer to your standards?

    As to the G5 processor it was a piece of crap the day it was released. Gullibility and Steve reality distortion field sold it, but there was no technical merit for its success. If you are talking about today's Mac Pro, the most logical thing to do Is to revamp the machine. It is grossly outdated and needs to be refocused to sell as a product.
    Don't even get me started on how they threw pro users under the bus with dumbing down their software either for the pro crowd.
    They didn't dumb anything down.
    If you didn't live through the years before the ipod hit with the company, it's very hard to explain, but let me put it like this... They always did right by the customer, and went out of their way to service the pro user and new comer alike, and made sure both sides had what they needed to do the things they needed to do.
    They still do. You do realize that the Mini is a more powerful computer than the G5's of a few years back. Even the current Mac Pro drastically outclasses the old G5's. Speaking of the Mac Pro do you even have a clue as to how intel has screwed up the release of Sandy Bridge E?
    Customer service was second to none. If they could do all that back then with the small amount of money they were pulling in, I'm sure they could figure out how to get it done with the billions they are pulling in each year now.

    You are absolutely delusional! Get a grip on life here. Wait for WWDC to see what Apple is actually up to. Otherwise what you are emotionally responding to is nothing more than speculation which makes you look the fool.
  • Reply 94 of 183
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Price has very little to do with what people buy.

    That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.

    I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.
  • Reply 95 of 183
    9secondko9secondko Posts: 929member


    As a happy owner of a 17" aluminum Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind and optioned as far as options could be taken), I have been waiting for a long time to get a new 17" MBP.


     


    I was a bit jaded by Apple obsoleting my notebook one month after I bought it. 


     


    But I carried on, happy for the universal binaries.  Then they died out.


     


    Now, I can't run any of Apples last two OS releases or many programs. 


     


    Sure, it's a long time to stay with one laptop, but it has performed admirable at what was asked of it even to this day.


     


    but I have been waiting to replace it.  With a an UPGRADE in every area.  Not missing an optical drive and not with a smaller screen.


     


    Just because something isn't a best seller doesn't mean to kill it off.


     


    The only reason I can see Apple doing this is due to the expense of the larger screen with retina resolution and possible touch capability.


     


    Even so, the professionals among us would prefer to have the option of paying more to get more, rather than using dumbed down, glorified iPads.


     


    Sheesh.


     


    Say it aint so, Apple!

  • Reply 96 of 183
    ghostface147ghostface147 Posts: 1,629member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post


    As a happy owner of a 17" aluminum Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind and optioned as far as options could be taken), I have been waiting for a long time to get a new 17" MBP.


     


    I was a bit jaded by Apple obsoleting my notebook one month after I bought it. 


     


    But I carried on, happy for the universal binaries.  Then they died out.


     


    Now, I can't run any of Apples last two OS releases or many programs. 


     


    Sure, it's a long time to stay with one laptop, but it has performed admirable at what was asked of it even to this day.


     


    but I have been waiting to replace it.  With a an UPGRADE in every area.  Not missing an optical drive and not with a smaller screen.


     


    Just because something isn't a best seller doesn't mean to kill it off.


     


    The only reason I can see Apple doing this is due to the expense of the larger screen with retina resolution and possible touch capability.


     


    Even so, the professionals among us would prefer to have the option of paying more to get more, rather than using dumbed down, glorified iPads.


     


    Sheesh.


     


    Say it aint so, Apple!



    How is the current Sandy Bridge not a nearly entire upgrade?  I would think they only holdover is the optical drive.  

  • Reply 97 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Very few buy the 13" MBP because of its price.

    As to the pricing of the 15" & 17" yeah the price is a bit stiff and frankly now a bit out of line with reality. However let's assume for a minute their is a bit of truth in this rumor. This could simply be a way for Apple to lower the price point on a Pro quality machine. Assuming that a 15" MacBook offers the same performance as a MBP, then in effect Apple has cut the price of a Pro quality machine.

    So maybe, just maybe, the goal here is for Apple to offer more price competitive hardware. This all assumes that any of the rumors here are true.

    z3r0 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a 19 or 21 inch Macbook Pro.

    13 inch sells more not because a smaller screen is preferred, but because its the lowest price point. If Apple would lower prices bigger sizes would sell more.
  • Reply 98 of 183


    Geez. We all criticize analysts for their idiotic statements. But reading through the comments on this, I'm thinking the pot shouldn't call the kettle black. It's just a rumor. A month ago the rumor was that the Mac Pro line was being axed. Let's not get too excited. I will be surprised if it goes. Niche product, but still a market for it. 

  • Reply 99 of 183
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    jragosta wrote: »
    That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.
    I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.

    If price was an issue nobody would buy Apple products. In fact I see the opposite in many cases people buy Apple products even if that means suffering elsewhere.

    In any event I will state again the price of the 13" MBP is not a factor in its sales. Very few buyers of this machine would even consider a 15" MBP.
  • Reply 100 of 183
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,374member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.

    I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    The 13" MBP has been Apples strongest selling laptop for a very long time. Even with the advent of the AIRs it is still the strongest selling Laptop in their lineup. So I don't see these figures as unrealistic.

    Price has very little to do with what people buy.


     


     


    I think what wizard69 meant was, the people who don't buy the 17" MBP isn't because its expensive. Its because of other factors. Its too large, its too heavy, too much of a pain in the ass to carry around with them, etc. If you're in the market for a 17" MBP and/or have purchased one in the past you're not necessarily worried about how much they cost. Price isn't the major contributing factor as to why the 17" MBP doesn't sell well anymore. Bigger isn't always better and its proving to be the case for most....you can see this buy looking at the break down in Apple laptop sales. The 13" is their biggest seller and has been for quite a while. 

Sign In or Register to comment.