Also worth noting that these rev2 jobbies do not charge the battery whilst you're using the notebook, only when it's off or in sleep mode. This update seems a backward step in a couple of ways.
That can't be true. I can't believe Apple would accept that - it's an absurd usability flaw on a $2199 laptop. Surely it charges when the machine isn't being worked too hard.
Has anyone looked to see if Apple has a new patent on MagSafe2?
My thinking would be that they are buttressing their IP by changing the design. The original MagSafe patent would still cover this (and it doesn't expire until 2025), but a newer patent filed for in the last year would last until the 2030s and keep third parties out of the power game for Macs (which Apple has done successfully).
I do agree with you about the Mac Pro though, and I'm sure many others do too. I'm still on a 2006 Mac Pro, which even now is still running like the day it was made. Can't quite say the same for the 2006 iMacs and MacBooks. Two years since the last Mac Pro update, and we get just a minor speed bump? That's just insulting.
New Mac Pro was launched yesterday, it's just on the website not in the keynote. I guess the keynote was full enough!
NON-UPGRADABLE SOLDERED-IN MEMORY in new Retina Display MacBook Pro
Apple did not mention it: The new Retina Display MacBook Pro has non-upgradable RAM. It is soldered in. You choose either the default 8 GB RAM or pay $200 MORE for 16 GB RAM. Once you decide how much RAM you want, you CANNOT UPGRADE later to more RAM.
This is very very disappointing.
If higher density RAM chips come out, you cannot upgrade your MacBook after you buy it. You cannot upgrade to 32 GB RAM in the future. You are stuck with the 8 or 16 GB that you initially bought.
NON-UPGRADABLE SOLDERED-IN MEMORY in new Retina Display MacBook Pro
Apple did not mention it: The new Retina Display MacBook Pro has non-upgradable RAM. It is soldered in. You choose either the default 8 GB RAM or pay $200 MORE for 16 GB RAM. Once you decide how much RAM you want, you CANNOT UPGRADE later to more RAM.
This is very very disappointing.
If higher density RAM chips come out, you cannot upgrade your MacBook after you buy it. You cannot upgrade to 32 GB RAM in the future. You are stuck with the 8 or 16 GB that you initially bought.
THat sucks big time.
That's unfortunate. I guess it makes the decision on whether to get 16 GB when I buy one an easy decision.
I suspect that either:
1. Apple couldn't find a way to squeeze replaceable RAM into this form factor
or
2. Apple's research indicated that the number of people who upgrade their RAM these days is not large enough to worry about.
The new Macbook is sick, but I just don't understand why Apple didn't talk about the new airport express at the keynote. They had a huge stage to promote it, and they released it without so much as a press release.
Because it doesn't matter at all.
Quote:
The only people reporting on it are these guys. It's just bizarre.
What's bizarre is that you think the site you're spamming is the only one reporting it when every single Apple site is reporting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
Also worth noting that these rev2 jobbies do not charge the battery whilst you're using the notebook, only when it's off or in sleep mode. This update seems a backward step in a couple of ways.
Now that's a blatant lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okeribok
Hey! Could that new magsafe adaptor be the new smaller connector for iOS devices?
No data pins, so no. Why would you want a MagSafe on an iOS device, anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2
If higher density RAM chips come out, you cannot upgrade your MacBook after you buy it. You cannot upgrade to 32 GB RAM in the future. You are stuck with the 8 or 16 GB that you initially bought.
THat sucks big time.
So vote with your wallet. For tens of millions (I would venture billions) of people, this is completely meaningless. Apple knows that and is expanding that idea. It also becomes irrelevant if new software is less RAM-thirsty.
Strange huh? Why Apple only offered that on the 17inch is baffling.
It was also available on the 15" (as long as you also opted for the higher-resolution display). When I bought the first-generation Thunderbolt MBP I opted for the matte+HD display. Originally I only wanted the HD+Glossy (which was available as a BTO option), but in-store you had your choice of standard+glossy or HD+matte (which also required an upgrade from the 2.2ghz to 2.3ghz CPU). I beleive that in-store the 17" MBP (which I very nearly bought and now that it's discontinued kinda wish I had) required the CPU upgrade as well to get the matte option (which was available without the CPU upgrade as a BTO option).
So vote with your wallet. For tens of millions (I would venture billions) of people, this is completely meaningless. Apple knows that and is expanding that idea. It also becomes irrelevant if new software is less RAM-thirsty.
I think this is less of an issue with Apple gouging less for RAM than they used to. For me the 16gb upgrade at $200 is a no-brainer. However, for those who opt for 8gb, with the SSD it's slightly less critical to ugprade in the future as the swap lives on a faster drive meaning the performance degredation will be less noticeable. It could, theoretically, diminish the life of the SSD because of limited read/write cycles, but I have to imagine that Apple is making the SSD a replaceable part as it is in the current Air.
Does anyone know when the new retina MBP will be in the Apple Stores? I went in and asked today and the sales rep said they had "no idea" when they were coming in.
I wonder why they dropped the words "MacBook Pro" from the bottom of the screen. Must be the first MB I can remember that doesn't have the name stamped there.
So vote with your wallet. For tens of millions (I would venture billions) of people, this is completely meaningless. Apple knows that and is expanding that idea. It also becomes irrelevant if new software is less RAM-thirsty.
Don't forget, it's also about bragging about the size of your RAM to people who really don't give two craps about it anyway. I would venture that's the ultimate reason for most of those who persist in whinging about it.
Having said that, I shall now commence whinging. I only have 4GB on my 6-year-old MBP. I bought it with 2GB and upgraded after a couple of years. I would really like the option to upgrade it later myself (I'm assuming you can take it to an Apple Store for an upgrade). Not a deal breaker for me, though. $200 to upgrade a computer I'm likely going to use for 5+ years really isn't too bad.
Good call. There are angles at which the L-connector will pull your laptop back away from you without disconnecting. Possibly to tumble off the back of a desk! Never happened to me, but I do think the T-connector is better at the job of disconnecting when tugged. Even if the L-style looked nicer.
Now, the original “T” had durability problems, but those can be fixed and probably have been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkemp77
I'm surprised by the lack of discussion regarding the loss of the Kensington lock port. ...
I hesitated to buy an Air for the same reason, but I simply apply much BETTER security: when I go to the john, I toss my laptop back in the bag and carry it with me! Better peace of mind (those lock cables are useful but not perfect). And no hassle of lugging a lock cable around and having to lock/unlock it all the time.
Once in a while I’ll leave my Air on a coffee shop table IF I’m sitting with a friend I trust and have told them to watch it. In that case, I also turn the camera on so a thief sees themselves. Hey, it supposedly works in stores
And one other small peace of mind: Macs have “active security” now: Find My Mac. I leave an open Guest account on my machine now, just to encourage thieves to go online and get caught by Location Services.
I think this is less of an issue with Apple gouging less for RAM than they used to. For me the 16gb upgrade at $200 is a no-brainer. However, for those who opt for 8gb, with the SSD it's slightly less critical to ugprade in the future as the swap lives on a faster drive meaning the performance degredation will be less noticeable. It could, theoretically, diminish the life of the SSD because of limited read/write cycles, but I have to imagine that Apple is making the SSD a replaceable part as it is in the current Air.
Yeah, it starts at 8GB. Really, how many people will find that a problem? It's a lot of RAM. Only some users, for example those who routinely have several VMs running, really need 16GB. And if you aren't sure, just spend the $200. Apple used to have ridiculous RAM prices. No longer. It's just not a problem.
On the MagSafe 2 connector (the real subject here), for the life of me I cannot understand why they are going back to the T format. It royally sucked in use (I saw many that were damaged), and it doesn't look good either. The L is much neater, the cable tucks away towards the back on your desk.
Frequent connector changes are not a good sign. It's one of the things that drove me crazy about HP laptops. In an organizational setting it's a real problem for support.
Matte Retina doesn't make sense. Matte is a surface texture that adds a bit of fuzz to the image. It's fine on 100ppi displays, but on 200ppi+, it's counterproductive, and it tends to wash the darks out a bit at any pixel density, that's just the nature of light diffusion.
It sounds like they might have an anti-reflective treatment, so I suggest taking a look at one in person before panning it. I usually give that sort of treatment several bonus points because it's the best of both worlds, it doesn't wash out the image, but it knocks down incident light considerably.
Don't forget, it's also about bragging about the size of your RAM to people who really don't give two craps about it anyway. I would venture that's the ultimate reason for most of those who persist in whinging about it.
Quite true.
Embarrassingly enough, I still only have 6GB of RAM in my Mac Pro, despite very probably needing more (and benefiting from more). I've yet to upgrade because I haven't the money to buy the RAM I want yet and I also don't feel I deserve it.
Yeah, it starts at 8GB. Really, how many people will find that a problem? It's a lot of RAM. Only some users, for example those who routinely have several VMs running, really need 16GB. And if you aren't sure, just spend the $200. Apple used to have ridiculous RAM prices. No longer. It's just not a problem.
That's a good point and the primary reason I upgraded to 8gb of RAM. I routinely have at least one VM running, and even that is enough to require more than 4gb of RAM (so that I can allocate a full 2gb to my VM). But also remember that, even though 8gb (or even 4gb) of RAM may be plenty for today's OS and applications, it probably won't suffice 3-4 years from now. Maybe some here have the $$$/£££/¥¥¥ to upgrade every year or two, but I've habitually kept my Macs running for 5-6 years. My first-gen MBP (restricted by hardware to 2gb of RAM) felt very long in the tooth by the time I replaced it. It still works fine for my son, but it certainly wasn't running my software with acceptable performance anymore.
Embarrassingly enough, I still only have 6GB of RAM in my Mac Pro, despite very probably needing more (and benefiting from more). I've yet to upgrade because I haven't the money to buy the RAM I want yet and I also don't feel I deserve it.
My Mac Pro is using about 6 GB out of 10GB of RAM right now.
I don't see the purpose. The old MagSafe connector fit just fine on a MacBook Air and these new computers are not any thinner. Maybe they plan on making even thinner ones eventually, but I don't see how you can get thinner than the headphone jack. Also I really prefer the current connectors over these T-shaped ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot
WHY go back to the T connector? I have laptops with both the T and L connectors, and the L connector is much better.
With the L shaped Magsafe connector plugged into the laptop and the cord facing the back, try pulling the cord vertically straight up or straight down. Also try pulling the cord around the back of the laptop. In both cases, the L shaped connector stays attached to the laptop. Not very "safe".
Grasping the L shaped connector and connecting it the laptop is also more difficult compared to the straight Magsafe connector.
In order to be truly "safe", the Magsafe connector needs to easily disconnect when pulled in *any* direction. I think the people who like the L shaped Magsafe connector only like it for the novelty appearance, just because it looks different.
I definitely prefer the T shape. I don't like how I have to make a decision as to which way the L should face. Sometimes, I have the power cable coming from behind my back (chair), so I have to point the cable toward the front. The T shape gives no frustration and disconnects much more easily.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
Also worth noting that these rev2 jobbies do not charge the battery whilst you're using the notebook, only when it's off or in sleep mode. This update seems a backward step in a couple of ways.
That can't be true. I can't believe Apple would accept that - it's an absurd usability flaw on a $2199 laptop. Surely it charges when the machine isn't being worked too hard.
Has anyone looked to see if Apple has a new patent on MagSafe2?
My thinking would be that they are buttressing their IP by changing the design. The original MagSafe patent would still cover this (and it doesn't expire until 2025), but a newer patent filed for in the last year would last until the 2030s and keep third parties out of the power game for Macs (which Apple has done successfully).
Darned right. Serial, Parallel, and SCSI are good enough for anyone. /s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg
I do agree with you about the Mac Pro though, and I'm sure many others do too. I'm still on a 2006 Mac Pro, which even now is still running like the day it was made. Can't quite say the same for the 2006 iMacs and MacBooks. Two years since the last Mac Pro update, and we get just a minor speed bump? That's just insulting.
New Mac Pro was launched yesterday, it's just on the website not in the keynote. I guess the keynote was full enough!
NON-UPGRADABLE SOLDERED-IN MEMORY in new Retina Display MacBook Pro
Apple did not mention it: The new Retina Display MacBook Pro has non-upgradable RAM. It is soldered in. You choose either the default 8 GB RAM or pay $200 MORE for 16 GB RAM. Once you decide how much RAM you want, you CANNOT UPGRADE later to more RAM.
This is very very disappointing.
If higher density RAM chips come out, you cannot upgrade your MacBook after you buy it. You cannot upgrade to 32 GB RAM in the future. You are stuck with the 8 or 16 GB that you initially bought.
THat sucks big time.
That's unfortunate. I guess it makes the decision on whether to get 16 GB when I buy one an easy decision.
I suspect that either:
1. Apple couldn't find a way to squeeze replaceable RAM into this form factor
or
2. Apple's research indicated that the number of people who upgrade their RAM these days is not large enough to worry about.
Or both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2
NON-UPGRADABLE SOLDERED-IN MEMORY in new Retina Display MacBook Pro
That sucks big time.
But it makes it thinner I suppose since the RAM sticks were perhaps couple millimeters thicker with the slot connectors and all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessedapple
The new Macbook is sick, but I just don't understand why Apple didn't talk about the new airport express at the keynote. They had a huge stage to promote it, and they released it without so much as a press release.
Because it doesn't matter at all.
Quote:
The only people reporting on it are these guys. It's just bizarre.
What's bizarre is that you think the site you're spamming is the only one reporting it when every single Apple site is reporting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
Also worth noting that these rev2 jobbies do not charge the battery whilst you're using the notebook, only when it's off or in sleep mode. This update seems a backward step in a couple of ways.
Now that's a blatant lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okeribok
Hey! Could that new magsafe adaptor be the new smaller connector for iOS devices?
No data pins, so no. Why would you want a MagSafe on an iOS device, anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2
If higher density RAM chips come out, you cannot upgrade your MacBook after you buy it. You cannot upgrade to 32 GB RAM in the future. You are stuck with the 8 or 16 GB that you initially bought.
THat sucks big time.
So vote with your wallet. For tens of millions (I would venture billions) of people, this is completely meaningless. Apple knows that and is expanding that idea. It also becomes irrelevant if new software is less RAM-thirsty.
It was also available on the 15" (as long as you also opted for the higher-resolution display). When I bought the first-generation Thunderbolt MBP I opted for the matte+HD display. Originally I only wanted the HD+Glossy (which was available as a BTO option), but in-store you had your choice of standard+glossy or HD+matte (which also required an upgrade from the 2.2ghz to 2.3ghz CPU). I beleive that in-store the 17" MBP (which I very nearly bought and now that it's discontinued kinda wish I had) required the CPU upgrade as well to get the matte option (which was available without the CPU upgrade as a BTO option).
I think this is less of an issue with Apple gouging less for RAM than they used to. For me the 16gb upgrade at $200 is a no-brainer. However, for those who opt for 8gb, with the SSD it's slightly less critical to ugprade in the future as the swap lives on a faster drive meaning the performance degredation will be less noticeable. It could, theoretically, diminish the life of the SSD because of limited read/write cycles, but I have to imagine that Apple is making the SSD a replaceable part as it is in the current Air.
Does anyone know when the new retina MBP will be in the Apple Stores? I went in and asked today and the sales rep said they had "no idea" when they were coming in.
I wonder why they dropped the words "MacBook Pro" from the bottom of the screen. Must be the first MB I can remember that doesn't have the name stamped there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So vote with your wallet. For tens of millions (I would venture billions) of people, this is completely meaningless. Apple knows that and is expanding that idea. It also becomes irrelevant if new software is less RAM-thirsty.
Don't forget, it's also about bragging about the size of your RAM to people who really don't give two craps about it anyway. I would venture that's the ultimate reason for most of those who persist in whinging about it.
Having said that, I shall now commence whinging. I only have 4GB on my 6-year-old MBP. I bought it with 2GB and upgraded after a couple of years. I would really like the option to upgrade it later myself (I'm assuming you can take it to an Apple Store for an upgrade). Not a deal breaker for me, though. $200 to upgrade a computer I'm likely going to use for 5+ years really isn't too bad.
"return to a "T"-style connector"
Good call. There are angles at which the L-connector will pull your laptop back away from you without disconnecting. Possibly to tumble off the back of a desk! Never happened to me, but I do think the T-connector is better at the job of disconnecting when tugged. Even if the L-style looked nicer.
Now, the original “T” had durability problems, but those can be fixed and probably have been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkemp77
I'm surprised by the lack of discussion regarding the loss of the Kensington lock port. ...
I hesitated to buy an Air for the same reason, but I simply apply much BETTER security: when I go to the john, I toss my laptop back in the bag and carry it with me! Better peace of mind (those lock cables are useful but not perfect). And no hassle of lugging a lock cable around and having to lock/unlock it all the time.
Once in a while I’ll leave my Air on a coffee shop table IF I’m sitting with a friend I trust and have told them to watch it. In that case, I also turn the camera on so a thief sees themselves. Hey, it supposedly works in stores
And one other small peace of mind: Macs have “active security” now: Find My Mac. I leave an open Guest account on my machine now, just to encourage thieves to go online and get caught by Location Services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242
I think this is less of an issue with Apple gouging less for RAM than they used to. For me the 16gb upgrade at $200 is a no-brainer. However, for those who opt for 8gb, with the SSD it's slightly less critical to ugprade in the future as the swap lives on a faster drive meaning the performance degredation will be less noticeable. It could, theoretically, diminish the life of the SSD because of limited read/write cycles, but I have to imagine that Apple is making the SSD a replaceable part as it is in the current Air.
Yeah, it starts at 8GB. Really, how many people will find that a problem? It's a lot of RAM. Only some users, for example those who routinely have several VMs running, really need 16GB. And if you aren't sure, just spend the $200. Apple used to have ridiculous RAM prices. No longer. It's just not a problem.
On the MagSafe 2 connector (the real subject here), for the life of me I cannot understand why they are going back to the T format. It royally sucked in use (I saw many that were damaged), and it doesn't look good either. The L is much neater, the cable tucks away towards the back on your desk.
Frequent connector changes are not a good sign. It's one of the things that drove me crazy about HP laptops. In an organizational setting it's a real problem for support.
Matte Retina doesn't make sense. Matte is a surface texture that adds a bit of fuzz to the image. It's fine on 100ppi displays, but on 200ppi+, it's counterproductive, and it tends to wash the darks out a bit at any pixel density, that's just the nature of light diffusion.
It sounds like they might have an anti-reflective treatment, so I suggest taking a look at one in person before panning it. I usually give that sort of treatment several bonus points because it's the best of both worlds, it doesn't wash out the image, but it knocks down incident light considerably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff
Don't forget, it's also about bragging about the size of your RAM to people who really don't give two craps about it anyway. I would venture that's the ultimate reason for most of those who persist in whinging about it.
Quite true.
Embarrassingly enough, I still only have 6GB of RAM in my Mac Pro, despite very probably needing more (and benefiting from more). I've yet to upgrade because I haven't the money to buy the RAM I want yet and I also don't feel I deserve it.
That's a good point and the primary reason I upgraded to 8gb of RAM. I routinely have at least one VM running, and even that is enough to require more than 4gb of RAM (so that I can allocate a full 2gb to my VM). But also remember that, even though 8gb (or even 4gb) of RAM may be plenty for today's OS and applications, it probably won't suffice 3-4 years from now. Maybe some here have the $$$/£££/¥¥¥ to upgrade every year or two, but I've habitually kept my Macs running for 5-6 years. My first-gen MBP (restricted by hardware to 2gb of RAM) felt very long in the tooth by the time I replaced it. It still works fine for my son, but it certainly wasn't running my software with acceptable performance anymore.
My Mac Pro is using about 6 GB out of 10GB of RAM right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolskevite
I don't see the purpose. The old MagSafe connector fit just fine on a MacBook Air and these new computers are not any thinner. Maybe they plan on making even thinner ones eventually, but I don't see how you can get thinner than the headphone jack. Also I really prefer the current connectors over these T-shaped ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot
WHY go back to the T connector? I have laptops with both the T and L connectors, and the L connector is much better.
With the L shaped Magsafe connector plugged into the laptop and the cord facing the back, try pulling the cord vertically straight up or straight down. Also try pulling the cord around the back of the laptop. In both cases, the L shaped connector stays attached to the laptop. Not very "safe".
Grasping the L shaped connector and connecting it the laptop is also more difficult compared to the straight Magsafe connector.
In order to be truly "safe", the Magsafe connector needs to easily disconnect when pulled in *any* direction. I think the people who like the L shaped Magsafe connector only like it for the novelty appearance, just because it looks different.
I definitely prefer the T shape. I don't like how I have to make a decision as to which way the L should face. Sometimes, I have the power cable coming from behind my back (chair), so I have to point the cable toward the front. The T shape gives no frustration and disconnects much more easily.