Before you all say this is a bad idea, consider that the majority of iPads sold out there are Wi-Fi only. Both AT&T and Verizon offer 4G data connectivity devices that work through the USB port, so if you still insist on cellular data connectivity, you just connect such a device to the Surface's USB port.
Both AT&T and Verizon offer 4G data connectivity devices that work through the USB port, so if you still insist on cellular data connectivity, you just connect such a device to the Surface's USB port.
I question this on the Surface running Win7 RT. First of all, none of the current drivers for Windows will work on it because it's an ARM CPU, not x86, so will there be drivers for all of them when it launches? Secondly, if all apps for Win RT have to go through the MS app store is it even possible to install outside drivers?
Well the surface might work well is against the netbook market but I don't think it'll be very good as a workstation. But let's wait and see.
haha - netbook, right, nice try at a dis! There's a big gradient between netbooks and workstations. The Air, for example, sits towards the middle, which is the same spot that the Surface will, well, surface. There is no question that the Surface is an ugly machine, but the promise is being an iPad in form, and a real computer in function. Don't lose yourself in anti-PC baggage.
haha - netbook, right, nice try at a dis! There's a big gradient between netbooks and workstations. The Air, for example, sits towards the middle, which is the same spot that the Surface will, well, surface. There is no question that the Surface is an ugly machine, but the promise is being an iPad in form, and a real computer in function. Don't lose yourself in anti-PC baggage.
I have no anti anything right now and my comment wasn't meant as a dis, that's why I said "let's wait and see". I haven't seen the product. So when I used the term netbook I just meant very small very limited computer. And by workstation, I meant where people do their primary work, whether it be a laptop or desktop. But now you've given us a better sense of what you think the surface will compete against, i.e. the Air.
Seems to me there might be some lure to students on a tight budget, or maybe even to people to have as a secondary travel machine, which would make it a very niche product. I couldn't imagine working on one of those all day though, especially since the kickstand gives you pretty much one position you can view it in, and it won't work on your lap, which is in part why I said I wouldn't want to edit large text on such a device. I'd never want such a thing as my workstation or netbook. But who knows, maybe it'll appeal to others. Recall the comment you responded to was my speaking from my perspective. I wasn't talking about its appeal or utility to others.
So, I'm skeptical as to how well this will fit the space between the iPad and MacBook, or tablet and workstation. I do worry for most people interested in tablets, much of the Pro Surface will be useless and never taken advantage of. I don't see it as becoming a huge success. For people interested in a small, versatile, mobile workstations, again it doesn't seem very practical, even though it adds in tablet functionality. As for the RT, I'm curious to see what kind of battery life and functionality it will achieve. 31.5 Watts seems very low and I fear it might be seriously outclassed by the iPad that will be in its price range. I worry about the timing of its release too, as I wouldn't want the next iPad to take away its steam. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple released the 13" Retina MBP as the Pro Surface came out. Would be a really good time to kill its buzz.
I question this on the Surface running Win7 RT. First of all, none of the current drivers for Windows will work on it because it's an ARM CPU, not x86, so will there be drivers for all of them when it launches? Secondly, if all apps for Win RT have to go through the MS app store is it even possible to install outside drivers?
Also don't forget the surface tablets have a usb port, so you can just plug in a 3g dongle (which most companies use anyway for their current laptops). Companies who would consider the surface as a laptop replacement (as we would be), are only looking at the pro edition, so driver support is a non-issue. As these tablets are in fact compatible with everything current laptops are compatible with (domain login, group policy, largest "app store" in the world
Microsoft has keyboards, Apple dictation; I'm wondering what will be more useful down the line...
(this post was dictated faster than I could type it)
I can type faster than you can dictate, provided there is no Apple-autocorruption enabled ^^
Besides, I don't find the Surface ugly, I'd go as far as to say if it had an Apple on it, many people here would praise the design.
I think Surface is kind of cute, fits right in a school/children environment, and if/when it's cheap enough I'd like one for my kids to learn programming... I'm pretty sure waiting a few years will make it super-cheap on eBay ^^
I can type faster than you can dictate, provided there is no Apple-autocorruption enabled ^^
Besides, I don't find the Surface ugly, I'd go as far as to say if it had an Apple on it, many people here would praise the design.
I think Surface is kind of cute, fits right in a school/children environment, and if/when it's cheap enough I'd like one for my kids to learn programming... I'm pretty sure waiting a few years will make it super-cheap on eBay ^^
Jony Ive would quit, or already be dead before a design like this ever came out of his studio!
Good thing you didn't say "bet" in that statement... I'd take it "all-in" in a heartbeat!
You know absolutely nothing about design or designers... that I can tell.
I think that RIM also decided to launch a Wifi only version of their Playbook. We all know how much of a steamy pile that entire situation became. I think I'm smelling it again.
Doesn't matter if you use Wifi or 3G/4G or not. The idea that the machine is crippled in some way is all that is needed to get negative reviews and a bad rap. Lots of examples down that road, and MS can't afford to have one hiccup if they any chance in hell of making this a success.
I have no anti anything right now and my comment wasn't meant as a dis, that's why I said "let's wait and see". I haven't seen the product. So when I used the term netbook I just meant very small very limited computer. And by workstation, I meant where people do their primary work, whether it be a laptop or desktop. But now you've given us a better sense of what you think the surface will compete against, i.e. the Air.
Seems to me there might be some lure to students on a tight budget, or maybe even to people to have as a secondary travel machine, which would make it a very niche product. I couldn't imagine working on one of those all day though, especially since the kickstand gives you pretty much one position you can view it in, and it won't work on your lap, which is in part why I said I wouldn't want to edit large text on such a device. I'd never want such a thing as my workstation or netbook. But who knows, maybe it'll appeal to others. Recall the comment you responded to was my speaking from my perspective. I wasn't talking about its appeal or utility to others.
So, I'm skeptical as to how well this will fit the space between the iPad and MacBook, or tablet and workstation. I do worry for most people interested in tablets, much of the Pro Surface will be useless and never taken advantage of. I don't see it as becoming a huge success. For people interested in a small, versatile, mobile workstations, again it doesn't seem very practical, even though it adds in tablet functionality. As for the RT, I'm curious to see what kind of battery life and functionality it will achieve. 31.5 Watts seems very low and I fear it might be seriously outclassed by the iPad that will be in its price range. I worry about the timing of its release too, as I wouldn't want the next iPad to take away its steam. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple released the 13" Retina MBP as the Pro Surface came out. Would be a really good time to kill its buzz.
The initial models will have a CTRL/ALT/DEL key and a stylus as well.
The new key combo (so you can use it to criticize Microsoft) is Windows + Power. So yes while Ctrl + Alt + Del will work, so will the the power button and windows button. They did this change for tablets without a keyboard, for example the surface without the keyboard attached. That being said I never use it.
Stylus is only an option for the Pro. Metro does not require a stylus, and even the desktop is much more touch friendly.
Im sure that WiFi is the most common iPad sold and even Apple had a 1 month delay between WiFi and cellular for the original iPad (throwing MS a big bone there) but they better get the features they do offer to be excellent or they shouldn't even bother.
True on the most common and yes there was a delay (although some of that was likely due to the need to get the FCC to approve the model and they may have put in that delay to give more time for that process).
That said, Microsoft would have pulled a coup if they had made only wifi+cellular and been able to sell them at the same pricing as the iPad wifi only models (or say only $30-50 more). Particularly if it was on the same pay as you go as the iPad plans. folks on the fence might have been swayed by the fact that they could have that option for less additional cost.
At the least given that there is as much as a 6 month delay before we see any Surface units it seems silly that they aren't doing both forms together. At least for the "Pro" model. Or do the wifi only on the ARM one and the wifi+cell on the "Pro" since that's the folks that are likely to want it.
(And yes I believe at some point the iPad will trim down to one lineup which will be wifi+cell with perhaps the single low storage wifi only for the students, kiddies etc)
I know this is going to sound like just a slam on MS, or pure Apple fanboy-ism, or what have you. But I really don't mean it that way.
That thing looks like a Fisher Price toy. It really does. I guess I'm just not the demographic.
Well they wanted to make the most UN iOS looking UI they could and they succeeded. Some folks will probably like the simple look. My issue with it looking like a toy is the colored keyboards. Until then I was okay but that really toys it up to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
You cannot use a trackpad with iOS. Keyboards with no pointing device are already available for the iPad - have been since day 1.
When the entire item is a trackpad why do you need to add one on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01
Before you all say this is a bad idea, consider that the majority of iPads sold out there are Wi-Fi only. Both AT&T and Verizon offer 4G data connectivity devices that work through the USB port, so if you still insist on cellular data connectivity, you just connect such a device to the Surface's USB port.
And have to carry an extra piece. No thanks. I'd rather spend $130 to have that function in my device than the same (or some monthly rental charge) to have something I could leave in a hotel room. I suspect many others are the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm
I think that RIM also decided to launch a Wifi only version of their Playbook. We all know how much of a steamy pile that entire situation became. I think I'm smelling it again.
the issue with the Playbook wasn't that it was wifi only. It was that it sucked and they pulled stupid moves like you couldn't read your email on it because there was no app for that. All you could do was mirror your blackberry email to it.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ
That thing looks like a Fisher Price toy. It really does. I guess I'm just not the demographic.
No, no, no... XP was the Fisher-Price release! This, to my eyes, looks more like Duplo territory.
Before you all say this is a bad idea, consider that the majority of iPads sold out there are Wi-Fi only. Both AT&T and Verizon offer 4G data connectivity devices that work through the USB port, so if you still insist on cellular data connectivity, you just connect such a device to the Surface's USB port.
I question this on the Surface running Win7 RT. First of all, none of the current drivers for Windows will work on it because it's an ARM CPU, not x86, so will there be drivers for all of them when it launches? Secondly, if all apps for Win RT have to go through the MS app store is it even possible to install outside drivers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
Well the surface might work well is against the netbook market but I don't think it'll be very good as a workstation. But let's wait and see.
haha - netbook, right, nice try at a dis! There's a big gradient between netbooks and workstations. The Air, for example, sits towards the middle, which is the same spot that the Surface will, well, surface. There is no question that the Surface is an ugly machine, but the promise is being an iPad in form, and a real computer in function. Don't lose yourself in anti-PC baggage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kustardking
haha - netbook, right, nice try at a dis! There's a big gradient between netbooks and workstations. The Air, for example, sits towards the middle, which is the same spot that the Surface will, well, surface. There is no question that the Surface is an ugly machine, but the promise is being an iPad in form, and a real computer in function. Don't lose yourself in anti-PC baggage.
I have no anti anything right now and my comment wasn't meant as a dis, that's why I said "let's wait and see". I haven't seen the product. So when I used the term netbook I just meant very small very limited computer. And by workstation, I meant where people do their primary work, whether it be a laptop or desktop. But now you've given us a better sense of what you think the surface will compete against, i.e. the Air.
Seems to me there might be some lure to students on a tight budget, or maybe even to people to have as a secondary travel machine, which would make it a very niche product. I couldn't imagine working on one of those all day though, especially since the kickstand gives you pretty much one position you can view it in, and it won't work on your lap, which is in part why I said I wouldn't want to edit large text on such a device. I'd never want such a thing as my workstation or netbook. But who knows, maybe it'll appeal to others. Recall the comment you responded to was my speaking from my perspective. I wasn't talking about its appeal or utility to others.
So, I'm skeptical as to how well this will fit the space between the iPad and MacBook, or tablet and workstation. I do worry for most people interested in tablets, much of the Pro Surface will be useless and never taken advantage of. I don't see it as becoming a huge success. For people interested in a small, versatile, mobile workstations, again it doesn't seem very practical, even though it adds in tablet functionality. As for the RT, I'm curious to see what kind of battery life and functionality it will achieve. 31.5 Watts seems very low and I fear it might be seriously outclassed by the iPad that will be in its price range. I worry about the timing of its release too, as I wouldn't want the next iPad to take away its steam. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple released the 13" Retina MBP as the Pro Surface came out. Would be a really good time to kill its buzz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I question this on the Surface running Win7 RT. First of all, none of the current drivers for Windows will work on it because it's an ARM CPU, not x86, so will there be drivers for all of them when it launches? Secondly, if all apps for Win RT have to go through the MS app store is it even possible to install outside drivers?
Windows 8 supports class drivers so that new drivers don't need to be written for each hardware device, much like keyboards and mice support the USB HID protocol: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/01/20/engineering-windows-8-for-mobility.aspx
Also don't forget the surface tablets have a usb port, so you can just plug in a 3g dongle (which most companies use anyway for their current laptops). Companies who would consider the surface as a laptop replacement (as we would be), are only looking at the pro edition, so driver support is a non-issue. As these tablets are in fact compatible with everything current laptops are compatible with (domain login, group policy, largest "app store" in the world
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ
I know this is going to sound like just a slam on MS, or pure Apple fanboy-ism, or what have you. But I really don't mean it that way.
That thing looks like a Fisher Price toy. It really does. I guess I'm just not the demographic.
True. I want one for my Mom and one for my younger sister.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
Microsoft has keyboards, Apple dictation; I'm wondering what will be more useful down the line...
(this post was dictated faster than I could type it)
I can type faster than you can dictate, provided there is no Apple-autocorruption enabled ^^
Besides, I don't find the Surface ugly, I'd go as far as to say if it had an Apple on it, many people here would praise the design.
I think Surface is kind of cute, fits right in a school/children environment, and if/when it's cheap enough I'd like one for my kids to learn programming... I'm pretty sure waiting a few years will make it super-cheap on eBay ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
I can type faster than you can dictate, provided there is no Apple-autocorruption enabled ^^
Besides, I don't find the Surface ugly, I'd go as far as to say if it had an Apple on it, many people here would praise the design.
I think Surface is kind of cute, fits right in a school/children environment, and if/when it's cheap enough I'd like one for my kids to learn programming... I'm pretty sure waiting a few years will make it super-cheap on eBay ^^
Jony Ive would quit, or already be dead before a design like this ever came out of his studio!
Good thing you didn't say "bet" in that statement... I'd take it "all-in" in a heartbeat!
You know absolutely nothing about design or designers... that I can tell.
I think that RIM also decided to launch a Wifi only version of their Playbook. We all know how much of a steamy pile that entire situation became. I think I'm smelling it again.
Doesn't matter if you use Wifi or 3G/4G or not. The idea that the machine is crippled in some way is all that is needed to get negative reviews and a bad rap. Lots of examples down that road, and MS can't afford to have one hiccup if they any chance in hell of making this a success.
The initial models will have a CTRL/ALT/DEL key and a stylus as well.
fail.
It also wouldn't be very good as a space shuttle, scalpel, or cultivator.
Who in the world would ever try to compare it to a workstation? That makes about as much sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
I have no anti anything right now and my comment wasn't meant as a dis, that's why I said "let's wait and see". I haven't seen the product. So when I used the term netbook I just meant very small very limited computer. And by workstation, I meant where people do their primary work, whether it be a laptop or desktop. But now you've given us a better sense of what you think the surface will compete against, i.e. the Air.
Seems to me there might be some lure to students on a tight budget, or maybe even to people to have as a secondary travel machine, which would make it a very niche product. I couldn't imagine working on one of those all day though, especially since the kickstand gives you pretty much one position you can view it in, and it won't work on your lap, which is in part why I said I wouldn't want to edit large text on such a device. I'd never want such a thing as my workstation or netbook. But who knows, maybe it'll appeal to others. Recall the comment you responded to was my speaking from my perspective. I wasn't talking about its appeal or utility to others.
So, I'm skeptical as to how well this will fit the space between the iPad and MacBook, or tablet and workstation. I do worry for most people interested in tablets, much of the Pro Surface will be useless and never taken advantage of. I don't see it as becoming a huge success. For people interested in a small, versatile, mobile workstations, again it doesn't seem very practical, even though it adds in tablet functionality. As for the RT, I'm curious to see what kind of battery life and functionality it will achieve. 31.5 Watts seems very low and I fear it might be seriously outclassed by the iPad that will be in its price range. I worry about the timing of its release too, as I wouldn't want the next iPad to take away its steam. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple released the 13" Retina MBP as the Pro Surface came out. Would be a really good time to kill its buzz.
Just an FYI, you're very passive-aggressive.
Using the cover as a keyboard is a clever idea though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallistDah
The initial models will have a CTRL/ALT/DEL key and a stylus as well.
The new key combo (so you can use it to criticize Microsoft) is Windows + Power. So yes while Ctrl + Alt + Del will work, so will the the power button and windows button. They did this change for tablets without a keyboard, for example the surface without the keyboard attached. That being said I never use it.
Stylus is only an option for the Pro. Metro does not require a stylus, and even the desktop is much more touch friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Im sure that WiFi is the most common iPad sold and even Apple had a 1 month delay between WiFi and cellular for the original iPad (throwing MS a big bone there) but they better get the features they do offer to be excellent or they shouldn't even bother.
True on the most common and yes there was a delay (although some of that was likely due to the need to get the FCC to approve the model and they may have put in that delay to give more time for that process).
That said, Microsoft would have pulled a coup if they had made only wifi+cellular and been able to sell them at the same pricing as the iPad wifi only models (or say only $30-50 more). Particularly if it was on the same pay as you go as the iPad plans. folks on the fence might have been swayed by the fact that they could have that option for less additional cost.
At the least given that there is as much as a 6 month delay before we see any Surface units it seems silly that they aren't doing both forms together. At least for the "Pro" model. Or do the wifi only on the ARM one and the wifi+cell on the "Pro" since that's the folks that are likely to want it.
(And yes I believe at some point the iPad will trim down to one lineup which will be wifi+cell with perhaps the single low storage wifi only for the students, kiddies etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ
I know this is going to sound like just a slam on MS, or pure Apple fanboy-ism, or what have you. But I really don't mean it that way.
That thing looks like a Fisher Price toy. It really does. I guess I'm just not the demographic.
Well they wanted to make the most UN iOS looking UI they could and they succeeded. Some folks will probably like the simple look. My issue with it looking like a toy is the colored keyboards. Until then I was okay but that really toys it up to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
You cannot use a trackpad with iOS. Keyboards with no pointing device are already available for the iPad - have been since day 1.
When the entire item is a trackpad why do you need to add one on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01
Before you all say this is a bad idea, consider that the majority of iPads sold out there are Wi-Fi only. Both AT&T and Verizon offer 4G data connectivity devices that work through the USB port, so if you still insist on cellular data connectivity, you just connect such a device to the Surface's USB port.
And have to carry an extra piece. No thanks. I'd rather spend $130 to have that function in my device than the same (or some monthly rental charge) to have something I could leave in a hotel room. I suspect many others are the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm
I think that RIM also decided to launch a Wifi only version of their Playbook. We all know how much of a steamy pile that entire situation became. I think I'm smelling it again.
the issue with the Playbook wasn't that it was wifi only. It was that it sucked and they pulled stupid moves like you couldn't read your email on it because there was no app for that. All you could do was mirror your blackberry email to it.