Jordan is still better than most of the NBA players out there, and this would have been a different thread (the 'Jordan Voted MVP Again' thread) had O'Neal not fouled Kobe on that impossible shot or had the ref not called that stupid foul. Isiah Thomas said it best after the game: "Refs always have to ruin games." That should have been a no-call for several reasons, but I don't feel like talking about it anymore.
By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.
<strong>Jordan is still better than most of the NBA players out there, and this would have been a different thread (the 'Jordan Voted MVP Again' thread) had O'Neal not fouled Kobe on that impossible shot or had the ref not called that stupid foul. Isiah Thomas said it best after the game: "Refs always have to ruin games." That should have been a no-call for several reasons, but I don't feel like talking about it anymore.
By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look just because we can see someone for who they are today instead of who they were yesterday doesn't mean we hate them or are disrespecting what they did. His time is past and he is done.
It happens to everyone. I remember when Kareem became so slow that the Lakers literally had to different offensive sets one for when Kareem could get up the floor and one to run for when his tired old butt was stuck at the other end.
I remember when Magic was one of the quickest guys out there. Then I remember in 91' when I would just watch guys blow past him. Same thing with Worthy, that guy was insanely athletic, then just hit a certain age and it wasn't there anymore.
Stockton and Malone are as timeless as they come but Malone is obviously not as good this year as he was in the past. His drop off has been gradual and small, a bit more each year. The drop off this year is painfully obvious even though he came in with like 4% bodyfat. Stockton is still very effective for his minutes, but they have been limited for several years now.
The fans have moved on, that is why Carter was voted as a starter with an injury and Jordan wasn't voted as one regardless. Again Jordan wouldn't have won MVP because even if he can light it up about once a month or so he can't do it against the best in the league. He was repeatedly stuffed by Shaq, Kobe, you name it. Other guys where throwning down and Jordan was missing dunks and lay-ups.
KG deserved the MVP. The man was unstoppable on that day. He is number one in all the efficiency ratings this year which means he gets more done with less since he is the only reason Minnisota isn't the Clippers or Nuggets. He is fantastic all around and not just in one statistical catagory. (Like Iverson for example)
Finally look at those modern day Jordans like Kobe. Kobe is practically averaging 40 ppg for the last month. You think the fans want to watch Jordan limp around some more or watch Kobe do his insane stuff as the Lakers go for #4?
iDunno, Jordan is still very good, still all-star calibre, still one of the top 20, but no longer in the top 5. So on the one hand, he's past his prime, duh, but I still think the all star selection is flawed.
Coaches, press, and GM's ought to make the choices. Combined they see a lot more games and know a lot more about the game than "the fans" who seem to go merely on a cocktail of showmanship and name recognition. ie, Carter, having missed most of the season so far, and been mediocre in his few games early on, didn't really belong at this seasons All-star game.
PS, McGrady is clearly the best all round player in the NBA right now. It ain't Kobe that makes the Lakers, it's Shaq. Carter wold have been a great foil to McGrady in TO (still no center or front court, but anyway) Too bad the raptors chose flash over substance. No wonder McGrady wanted to go home.
<strong>By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You think Kobe and Vince wouldn't have played basketball if it weren't for Jordan?
<strong>Besides every knows that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the NBA.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And that's save in the literal sense! A lot of people don't realize the NBA finals the year before those guys came in was televised tape-delay at like 11PM!
I remember watching the Celtics and the Lakers square off as a kid, and following the progress of playoff coverage each year as it got better and deeper. They really did put pro basketball back on the radar. The college game was and remains huge, but the NBA had a real problem appealing to an audience outside the core cities.
There's something great about single game elimination that keeps the NCAA tourney up there even though the NBA is easily the more popular product now.
Every player should be force to sit and watch a few hours of those before they're allowed to touch a basketball. So much more fun to watch 5 guys moving as one than the 1 guy playing 1 on 1 and 8 guys standing watching that we get now.
[quote]There's something great about single game elimination <hr></blockquote>
You know, I was thinking about that when colanderofdeath and I were talking about playoff series before.
March Madness has the do or die urgentness and Cinderella stories, which are great.
But there's something about a 5+ game playoff in the NBA that's really cool, too.
The teams always get pissy with each other, individual matchups get personal and you get to see the coaches really playing the chess game with matchups and adjustments to plays.
Comments
By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.
<strong>Jordan is still better than most of the NBA players out there, and this would have been a different thread (the 'Jordan Voted MVP Again' thread) had O'Neal not fouled Kobe on that impossible shot or had the ref not called that stupid foul. Isiah Thomas said it best after the game: "Refs always have to ruin games." That should have been a no-call for several reasons, but I don't feel like talking about it anymore.
By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look just because we can see someone for who they are today instead of who they were yesterday doesn't mean we hate them or are disrespecting what they did. His time is past and he is done.
It happens to everyone. I remember when Kareem became so slow that the Lakers literally had to different offensive sets one for when Kareem could get up the floor and one to run for when his tired old butt was stuck at the other end.
I remember when Magic was one of the quickest guys out there. Then I remember in 91' when I would just watch guys blow past him. Same thing with Worthy, that guy was insanely athletic, then just hit a certain age and it wasn't there anymore.
Stockton and Malone are as timeless as they come but Malone is obviously not as good this year as he was in the past. His drop off has been gradual and small, a bit more each year. The drop off this year is painfully obvious even though he came in with like 4% bodyfat. Stockton is still very effective for his minutes, but they have been limited for several years now.
The fans have moved on, that is why Carter was voted as a starter with an injury and Jordan wasn't voted as one regardless. Again Jordan wouldn't have won MVP because even if he can light it up about once a month or so he can't do it against the best in the league. He was repeatedly stuffed by Shaq, Kobe, you name it. Other guys where throwning down and Jordan was missing dunks and lay-ups.
KG deserved the MVP. The man was unstoppable on that day. He is number one in all the efficiency ratings this year which means he gets more done with less since he is the only reason Minnisota isn't the Clippers or Nuggets. He is fantastic all around and not just in one statistical catagory. (Like Iverson for example)
Finally look at those modern day Jordans like Kobe. Kobe is practically averaging 40 ppg for the last month. You think the fans want to watch Jordan limp around some more or watch Kobe do his insane stuff as the Lakers go for #4?
Nick
Coaches, press, and GM's ought to make the choices. Combined they see a lot more games and know a lot more about the game than "the fans" who seem to go merely on a cocktail of showmanship and name recognition. ie, Carter, having missed most of the season so far, and been mediocre in his few games early on, didn't really belong at this seasons All-star game.
PS, McGrady is clearly the best all round player in the NBA right now. It ain't Kobe that makes the Lakers, it's Shaq. Carter wold have been a great foil to McGrady in TO (still no center or front court, but anyway) Too bad the raptors chose flash over substance. No wonder McGrady wanted to go home.
<strong>By the way, you people who don't like Jordan are pretty ignorant: he's the reason there are Kobes and Carters and all those other hyped-up stars of today who try desperately to be like him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You think Kobe and Vince wouldn't have played basketball if it weren't for Jordan?
Or that the league would have folded?
Jeff
<strong>
You think Kobe and Vince wouldn't have played basketball if it weren't for Jordan?
Or that the league would have folded?
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't say that. Didn't say that at all. I'm just saying that's who they're trying ti emulate.
<strong>
I didn't say that. Didn't say that at all. I'm just saying that's who they're trying ti emulate.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh, man especially Kobe-the gum, the mannerisms, everything!
Jeff
<strong>Besides every knows that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the NBA.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And that's save in the literal sense! A lot of people don't realize the NBA finals the year before those guys came in was televised tape-delay at like 11PM!
Jeff
There's something great about single game elimination that keeps the NCAA tourney up there even though the NBA is easily the more popular product now.
Every player should be force to sit and watch a few hours of those before they're allowed to touch a basketball. So much more fun to watch 5 guys moving as one than the 1 guy playing 1 on 1 and 8 guys standing watching that we get now.
[quote]There's something great about single game elimination <hr></blockquote>
You know, I was thinking about that when colanderofdeath and I were talking about playoff series before.
March Madness has the do or die urgentness and Cinderella stories, which are great.
But there's something about a 5+ game playoff in the NBA that's really cool, too.
The teams always get pissy with each other, individual matchups get personal and you get to see the coaches really playing the chess game with matchups and adjustments to plays.
Jeff
[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: jeffyboy ]</p>