This phone has 2 year old hardware and won't even get a single major update.
I had to look at the article heading because I thought you were talking negatively about nearly all Android devices sold. Surely you can see how that applies to your comment.
Exactly. Microsoft doesn't have a marketing problem. Microsoft has a product problem. Amazing marketing won't fix the fact that there isn't a compelling reason to choose a Windows phone over Andriod or an iPhone.
In the past, Windows mobile phones were business phones. But today, it's the consumer friendly phones like the iPhones and Androids (aka Samsung) that are selling. The WP7 phones are a bit like your corporate boss wearing skinny jeans trying to be cool. And people aren't buying it, literally. The Metro interface has some nice features, but needs some toning down of the tile colors. Looks juvenile. Or maybe have themes that can be changed according to taste. (this may already be a feature). It appears that WP7 and Nokia phones are trying too hard to be cool and it's a turn off for the consumers and the enterprise. Microsoft should concentrate on enterprise phones and take over where Blackberry is falling behind. They should stop trying to be cool and become more focus on the business side.
Hop in the wayback machine to 2007 when the iPhone came out. It hardly made a dent in the mobile sphere and it wasn't until the 3G that it took off. Here we are 5 years later. And Success! Agreed!
But if I put an iPhone in your hands in 2006 what would your reaction be?
Back then Motorola ruled the world, and it's phones sever pretty awesome. Remember the RAZR?
My point is, the Nokia Lumia 900 isn't even 6 months old... and fighting it's way up into the market.
Simply dimissing it as stupid, as dying, as Microsoft sucks - is moronic. There's A LOT of ex-iPhone users using the Nokia Lumia - including me... because it's literally a better OS. No crashes, buttery smooth. And per Steve Wozniak - it's like Steve Job got reincarnated at Microsoft.
And why the hell would Steve Wozniak say that? Because it's that good of a phone/OS.
Step away from the punch gentlemen. Apple NEEDS competition. Apple only makes a great iPad/iPhone NOW because 10 years ago, APPLE was the underdog.
Why is Apple making a 4" phone? Why is Apple making a 7" tablet? Why is Apple making an HDTV?
Because COMPETITION is making them offer it. Sure Amazon maybe sold 6 Million Kindles, but that's 6 million less iPads. Sure Samsung may suck with their 4" phones, but they sell as many phones as Apple does.
Don't root for companies who are innovating and hungry to die gentlemen.
If they succeed and compete, it allows Apple to give you better products.
Or are you guys really that much into mediocrity with your 5 year-old OS?
Oh, please. The iPhone made a huge splash when it first came out. Stop the troll train.
Oh, please. The iPhone made a huge splash when it first came out. Stop the troll train.
It's funny how the dissenters said that Apple's iPhone sucks because the OS is new and untested and now that it's the most popular mobile developer platform in the world it's not bad because it's established.
Apple can't win with some people no matter what they do.
As for iPhone hardware, what new can they do? A bigger screen? Thinner? Different design? I don't care that much for thinness since that usually means less battery life, bigger screens aren't news, and among other things, I prefer the Lumia 800 design because it's much more durable than a phone made of glass.
iOS 6 has no other big surprises, no cards up its sleeve. The wallet app? Android has it, and WP8's is better than both. Speaking of WP8, all of this laziness on part of Google and Apple is leaving the door open for Microsoft to not only catch up with them, but to surpass them completely. Laugh if you must, but I'll be buying a Nokia Lumia 801 (or whatever it will be called) as soon as it's out. And sell my 4S to buy it.
As for iPhone hardware, what new can they do? A bigger screen? Thinner? Different design? I don't care that much for thinness since that usually means less battery life, bigger screens aren't news, and among other things, I prefer the Lumia 800 design because it's much more durable than a phone made of glass.
iOS 6 has no other big surprises, no cards up its sleeve. The wallet app? Android has it, and WP8's is better than both. Speaking of WP8, all of this laziness on part of Google and Apple is leaving the door open for Microsoft to not only catch up with them, but to surpass them completely. Laugh if you must, but I'll be buying a Nokia Lumia 801 (or whatever it will be called) as soon as it's out. And sell my 4S to buy it.
Exactly. Microsoft doesn't have a marketing problem. Microsoft has a product problem. Amazing marketing won't fix the fact that there isn't a compelling reason to choose a Windows phone over Andriod or an iPhone.
Well we will have to wait until win8. Business and individuals are still addicted to Office, unfortunately. The best mobile Office will be on Windows phones, tablets and laptops. If Office remains as important as it currently is I would be worried were I Google and perhaps even Apple. The real danger is Office and the shackles that come with it. Until people wean themselves off that addiction nobody is safe. Don't forget how Netscape lost to IE, how the Mac lost to MS-DOS of all things, ...
I am old enough to remember that fully featured smartphones existed before the iphone was released and that whilst the iPone went on to obliterate the sales of those smartphones/platforms, they were, by definition, competing devices.
If the poster is indeed older than me then I can only conclude that they are significantly older and now suffering from age related memory loss. The fact that, by association, you seem to agree with them would lead me to assume that you are either very young or equally decrepit.
Alternatively you are just being argumentative as a result of some character flaw that prevents you from being willing to witness someone making corrective statements, if those statements do not polish the image of a firm that you are partial to.
Exactly. It's probably closer to a 10-15% price cut from Nokia. Hardly a disaster.
For comparison, Apple released the iPhone at $600 without subsidies. It was only later that they introduced a $199 phone without subsidies. Would it have been accurate at the time to say that Apple's iPhone was doomed because they had to cut the price by 2/3? Obviously not.
Besides, Nokia has a challenge. The current Nokia will not be upgradeable. While that's OK in Android-ville, most people prefer the ability to upgrade their phones - which means this phone has a disadvantage and a price cut is not unreasonable.
Some things I'd like to add:
Firstly, This article is only focusing on America, has an increadibly misleading title and, to an extent, misleading content. As you rightly said, on a contract its only $50 off. In the UK right now, the Lumia 900 is still selling for £460 PAYG and the 800 has had £40 cut off its price and is now £360 (again, PAYG).
Secondly, this article states that Windows Phone is struggling. That is clearly false and a quick Internet Search is all its takes to show otherwise. In markets such as France and Italy, Windows phone has hit 4% as of Q2. In Germany its 6%! In the UK, the Market share doubled from 2% to 4% in Q1 2012, and that was before the release of the 900. The 900 has seen a decent amount of sucess and, if the market share continues as it currently is in many markets, including America, Windows phone could see as high as 10% share.
Lastly is the upgradability. Older Windows Phone devices will get Windows Phone 7.8 rather than Windows Phone 8 - the difference? Windows Phone 7.8 wont have the hardware support. Thats it. All the features and APIs will be there and Applications will run on both systems. Why Microsoft chose to give them different names is beyond me. The reason why WP8 isn't coming to older devices is because WP8 is built for Multi-Core processors, NFC, high resolution screens and so forth; older phones simply do not have these features.
The only Apps that will not run on 7.8 will be those requiring a specific bit of hardware. Since 99.9% of Apps, regardless of platform, will require GPS at most, it doesn't look like it'll be a problem. Plus, both systems look identical so everyone can enjoy the buggest new feature: the redesigned home screen. Even I, as an Apple aficionado, can't wait to see and use that new home screen. It makes iOS and Android look dated.
Firstly, This article is only focusing on America, has an incredibly misleading title and, to an extent, misleading content. As you rightly said, on a contract its only $50 off. In the UK right now, the Lumia 900 is still selling for £460 PAYG and the 800 has had £40 cut off its price and is now £360 (again, PAYG).
Secondly, this article states that Windows Phone is struggling. That is clearly false and a quick Internet Search is all its takes to show otherwise. In markets such as France and Italy, Windows phone has hit 4% as of Q2. In Germany its 6%! In the UK, the Market share doubled from 2% to 4% in Q1 2012, and that was before the release of the 900. The 900 has seen a decent amount of success and, if the market share continues as it currently is in many markets, including America, Windows phone could see as high as 10% share.
Lastly is the upgradability. Older Windows Phone devices will get Windows Phone 7.8 rather than Windows Phone 8 - the difference? Windows Phone 7.8 wont have the hardware support. Thats it. All the features and APIs will be there and Applications will run on both systems. Why Microsoft chose to give them different names is beyond me. The reason why WP8 isn't coming to older devices is because WP8 is built for Multi-Core processors, NFC, high resolution screens and so forth; older phones simply do not have these features.
The only Apps that will not run on 7.8 will be those requiring a specific bit of hardware. Since 99.9% of Apps, regardless of platform, will require GPS at most, it doesn't look like it'll be a problem. Plus, both systems look identical so everyone can enjoy the buggest new feature: the redesigned home screen. Even I, as an Apple aficionado, can't wait to see and use that new home screen. It makes iOS and Android look dated.
I can't disagree with anything that you have said but add that IMO it has been handled rather badly with no assurances from either MS or Nokia, by that I mean that they should be stressing that the overall experience wont be massively different.
If the next iphone has, for example, NFC, I doubt that owners of the 4s and older would be crying foul. I guess that the difference is that Apple would unify the iOS version and point out that not all new features of iOS or new apps would be available on older handsets (as is already the case).
Perhaps MS are guilty of being too honest and wanting to prevent confusion between wp7.8 and W8 compatibility
Windows CE (later renamed Windows Mobile) was supposed to be a clean, portable (and already ported to ARM) version of Windows without the legacy DOS crap. Now Microsoft has dumped this supposedly clean and legacy-free version of Windows with some new version of legacy Windows that's ditched the legacy stuff (like DOS, x86, and desktop) and ported to ARM. It's like they re-created Windows CE/Windows Mobile with Windows Phone 8 and RT. Only without compatibility with any of those operating systems or legacy Windows. Nokia signed up for Microsoft chaos.
No.
Windows Mobile/Windows Phone is built on top of Windows CE. Windows Phone 8, however, will be built on Windows NT, like desktop Windows has been since Windows 2000.
Windows CE isn't going away anytime soon; it's a hugely successful embedded OS. It just won't be the underpinnings of Windows Phone anymore.
Most people prefer to upgrade their phones? What makes you say that. Very few people outside the iPhone base seem to. Very few in Android-ville as you term it. But Android-ville is most people!
But agree with your first point. Very misleading headlining "halves price".
Well, no wonder Android-ville don't bother to upgrade, because Android improvement over previous version is mere version number.
It'll be interesting to see who goes tits up first - Nokia or RIM...
I'm betting on Nokia. RIM at least has their service business to bring in some revenue - their message network. Nokia's got nothing much apart from their now-worthless phones.
Nokia still have networking business. If they're kicked out from smartphone business, they will be like Siemens and Ericsson.
If that device ran iOS, you'd be singing a different tune. That phone is gorgeous. Microsoft just sucks at marketing and partnering. It's like they can't figure out how NOT to stab the competition to death, even when it's the guys on their own team.
I played around with one at an AT&T store. While it looked nice it didn't feel solid. It felt like a plastic device.
Comments
I had to look at the article heading because I thought you were talking negatively about nearly all Android devices sold. Surely you can see how that applies to your comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry
MS sucks at marketing? LOL!
Exactly. Microsoft doesn't have a marketing problem. Microsoft has a product problem. Amazing marketing won't fix the fact that there isn't a compelling reason to choose a Windows phone over Andriod or an iPhone.
In the past, Windows mobile phones were business phones. But today, it's the consumer friendly phones like the iPhones and Androids (aka Samsung) that are selling. The WP7 phones are a bit like your corporate boss wearing skinny jeans trying to be cool. And people aren't buying it, literally. The Metro interface has some nice features, but needs some toning down of the tile colors. Looks juvenile. Or maybe have themes that can be changed according to taste. (this may already be a feature). It appears that WP7 and Nokia phones are trying too hard to be cool and it's a turn off for the consumers and the enterprise. Microsoft should concentrate on enterprise phones and take over where Blackberry is falling behind. They should stop trying to be cool and become more focus on the business side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3
Hop in the wayback machine to 2007 when the iPhone came out. It hardly made a dent in the mobile sphere and it wasn't until the 3G that it took off. Here we are 5 years later. And Success! Agreed!
But if I put an iPhone in your hands in 2006 what would your reaction be?
Back then Motorola ruled the world, and it's phones sever pretty awesome. Remember the RAZR?
My point is, the Nokia Lumia 900 isn't even 6 months old... and fighting it's way up into the market.
Simply dimissing it as stupid, as dying, as Microsoft sucks - is moronic. There's A LOT of ex-iPhone users using the Nokia Lumia - including me... because it's literally a better OS. No crashes, buttery smooth. And per Steve Wozniak - it's like Steve Job got reincarnated at Microsoft.
And why the hell would Steve Wozniak say that? Because it's that good of a phone/OS.
Step away from the punch gentlemen. Apple NEEDS competition. Apple only makes a great iPad/iPhone NOW because 10 years ago, APPLE was the underdog.
Why is Apple making a 4" phone? Why is Apple making a 7" tablet? Why is Apple making an HDTV?
Because COMPETITION is making them offer it. Sure Amazon maybe sold 6 Million Kindles, but that's 6 million less iPads. Sure Samsung may suck with their 4" phones, but they sell as many phones as Apple does.
Don't root for companies who are innovating and hungry to die gentlemen.
If they succeed and compete, it allows Apple to give you better products.
Or are you guys really that much into mediocrity with your 5 year-old OS?
Oh, please. The iPhone made a huge splash when it first came out. Stop the troll train.
Nokia's profits starting to get smoked.
It's funny how the dissenters said that Apple's iPhone sucks because the OS is new and untested and now that it's the most popular mobile developer platform in the world it's not bad because it's established.
Apple can't win with some people no matter what they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
???? How old are you?
Certainly older than you, it would seem.
His opinion can't be trusted because it isn't discriminating. No standards.
And he had a hand in making THIS monstrosity:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/modbook
*rolleyes*
THANK GOD he no longer has any say at Apple. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, but when it comes to tech he's way past his sell-by date.
Wow, so many bullshit in one comment section.
Apple's iPhone division is stagnating. iOS 6 has one remarkable feature - Maps - and that's catch-up with Android Google Maps and Nokia Maps.
The Springboard UI is stale, and while they are trying some cosmetic changes from what I've seen in the iOS 6 beta, they are at best minor changes, and at worst come close to being worse than the elements replacing them (case in point: http://modmyi.com/attachments/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/591928d1340024304-new-z-ui-ui-alternative-sometimes-less-more-free-imageuploadedbymodmyi1340024302.975839.jpg). The Podcasts app is a frickin mess: both cosmetically (a tape recorder? Seriously, Apple?) and functionally.
As for iPhone hardware, what new can they do? A bigger screen? Thinner? Different design? I don't care that much for thinness since that usually means less battery life, bigger screens aren't news, and among other things, I prefer the Lumia 800 design because it's much more durable than a phone made of glass.
iOS 6 has no other big surprises, no cards up its sleeve. The wallet app? Android has it, and WP8's is better than both. Speaking of WP8, all of this laziness on part of Google and Apple is leaving the door open for Microsoft to not only catch up with them, but to surpass them completely. Laugh if you must, but I'll be buying a Nokia Lumia 801 (or whatever it will be called) as soon as it's out. And sell my 4S to buy it.
LMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
Exactly. Microsoft doesn't have a marketing problem. Microsoft has a product problem. Amazing marketing won't fix the fact that there isn't a compelling reason to choose a Windows phone over Andriod or an iPhone.
Well we will have to wait until win8. Business and individuals are still addicted to Office, unfortunately. The best mobile Office will be on Windows phones, tablets and laptops. If Office remains as important as it currently is I would be worried were I Google and perhaps even Apple. The real danger is Office and the shackles that come with it. Until people wean themselves off that addiction nobody is safe. Don't forget how Netscape lost to IE, how the Mac lost to MS-DOS of all things, ...
philip
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Certainly older than you, it would seem.
I am old enough to remember that fully featured smartphones existed before the iphone was released and that whilst the iPone went on to obliterate the sales of those smartphones/platforms, they were, by definition, competing devices.
If the poster is indeed older than me then I can only conclude that they are significantly older and now suffering from age related memory loss. The fact that, by association, you seem to agree with them would lead me to assume that you are either very young or equally decrepit.
Alternatively you are just being argumentative as a result of some character flaw that prevents you from being willing to witness someone making corrective statements, if those statements do not polish the image of a firm that you are partial to.
so which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Exactly. It's probably closer to a 10-15% price cut from Nokia. Hardly a disaster.
For comparison, Apple released the iPhone at $600 without subsidies. It was only later that they introduced a $199 phone without subsidies. Would it have been accurate at the time to say that Apple's iPhone was doomed because they had to cut the price by 2/3? Obviously not.
Besides, Nokia has a challenge. The current Nokia will not be upgradeable. While that's OK in Android-ville, most people prefer the ability to upgrade their phones - which means this phone has a disadvantage and a price cut is not unreasonable.
Some things I'd like to add:
Firstly, This article is only focusing on America, has an increadibly misleading title and, to an extent, misleading content. As you rightly said, on a contract its only $50 off. In the UK right now, the Lumia 900 is still selling for £460 PAYG and the 800 has had £40 cut off its price and is now £360 (again, PAYG).
Secondly, this article states that Windows Phone is struggling. That is clearly false and a quick Internet Search is all its takes to show otherwise. In markets such as France and Italy, Windows phone has hit 4% as of Q2. In Germany its 6%! In the UK, the Market share doubled from 2% to 4% in Q1 2012, and that was before the release of the 900. The 900 has seen a decent amount of sucess and, if the market share continues as it currently is in many markets, including America, Windows phone could see as high as 10% share.
Lastly is the upgradability. Older Windows Phone devices will get Windows Phone 7.8 rather than Windows Phone 8 - the difference? Windows Phone 7.8 wont have the hardware support. Thats it. All the features and APIs will be there and Applications will run on both systems. Why Microsoft chose to give them different names is beyond me. The reason why WP8 isn't coming to older devices is because WP8 is built for Multi-Core processors, NFC, high resolution screens and so forth; older phones simply do not have these features.
The only Apps that will not run on 7.8 will be those requiring a specific bit of hardware. Since 99.9% of Apps, regardless of platform, will require GPS at most, it doesn't look like it'll be a problem. Plus, both systems look identical so everyone can enjoy the buggest new feature: the redesigned home screen. Even I, as an Apple aficionado, can't wait to see and use that new home screen. It makes iOS and Android look dated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
Some things I'd like to add:
Firstly, This article is only focusing on America, has an incredibly misleading title and, to an extent, misleading content. As you rightly said, on a contract its only $50 off. In the UK right now, the Lumia 900 is still selling for £460 PAYG and the 800 has had £40 cut off its price and is now £360 (again, PAYG).
Secondly, this article states that Windows Phone is struggling. That is clearly false and a quick Internet Search is all its takes to show otherwise. In markets such as France and Italy, Windows phone has hit 4% as of Q2. In Germany its 6%! In the UK, the Market share doubled from 2% to 4% in Q1 2012, and that was before the release of the 900. The 900 has seen a decent amount of success and, if the market share continues as it currently is in many markets, including America, Windows phone could see as high as 10% share.
Lastly is the upgradability. Older Windows Phone devices will get Windows Phone 7.8 rather than Windows Phone 8 - the difference? Windows Phone 7.8 wont have the hardware support. Thats it. All the features and APIs will be there and Applications will run on both systems. Why Microsoft chose to give them different names is beyond me. The reason why WP8 isn't coming to older devices is because WP8 is built for Multi-Core processors, NFC, high resolution screens and so forth; older phones simply do not have these features.
The only Apps that will not run on 7.8 will be those requiring a specific bit of hardware. Since 99.9% of Apps, regardless of platform, will require GPS at most, it doesn't look like it'll be a problem. Plus, both systems look identical so everyone can enjoy the buggest new feature: the redesigned home screen. Even I, as an Apple aficionado, can't wait to see and use that new home screen. It makes iOS and Android look dated.
I can't disagree with anything that you have said but add that IMO it has been handled rather badly with no assurances from either MS or Nokia, by that I mean that they should be stressing that the overall experience wont be massively different.
If the next iphone has, for example, NFC, I doubt that owners of the 4s and older would be crying foul. I guess that the difference is that Apple would unify the iOS version and point out that not all new features of iOS or new apps would be available on older handsets (as is already the case).
Perhaps MS are guilty of being too honest and wanting to prevent confusion between wp7.8 and W8 compatibility
I feel sorry for Nokia. Maybe they would have had better sales if they stuck to Symbian?
They should have jumped onto the Android bandwagon and maybe they would have even been toe-to-toe with Samsung. Microsoft really mishandled them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Windows CE (later renamed Windows Mobile) was supposed to be a clean, portable (and already ported to ARM) version of Windows without the legacy DOS crap. Now Microsoft has dumped this supposedly clean and legacy-free version of Windows with some new version of legacy Windows that's ditched the legacy stuff (like DOS, x86, and desktop) and ported to ARM. It's like they re-created Windows CE/Windows Mobile with Windows Phone 8 and RT. Only without compatibility with any of those operating systems or legacy Windows. Nokia signed up for Microsoft chaos.
No.
Windows Mobile/Windows Phone is built on top of Windows CE. Windows Phone 8, however, will be built on Windows NT, like desktop Windows has been since Windows 2000.
Windows CE isn't going away anytime soon; it's a hugely successful embedded OS. It just won't be the underpinnings of Windows Phone anymore.
.tsooJ
Well, no wonder Android-ville don't bother to upgrade, because Android improvement over previous version is mere version number.
Nokia still have networking business. If they're kicked out from smartphone business, they will be like Siemens and Ericsson.