It'll be interesting to see who goes tits up first - Nokia or RIM...
I'm betting on Nokia. RIM at least has their service business to bring in some revenue - their message network. Nokia's got nothing much apart from their now-worthless phones.
iOS 6 has no other big surprises, no cards up its sleeve. The wallet app? Android has it, and WP8's is better than both. Speaking of WP8, all of this laziness on part of Google and Apple is leaving the door open for Microsoft to not only catch up with them, but to surpass them completely. Laugh if you must, but I'll be buying a Nokia Lumia 801 (or whatever it will be called) as soon as it's out. And sell my 4S to buy it.
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist". If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there. I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist". If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there. I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
Nobody gets it right the first time. When you talk like that, its you who looks like a spoiled kid. When the first iPhone came out, it had its kinks, some bugs, some changes needed to be made, some to be improved. No one got it right the first time, so don't overexert yourself spewing the belief that Apple has planted in you. Sure they made a great phone, but even they know that they need to improve somehow.
The problem is that they are running out of ideas because they are too busy looking up what other "IP" they can sue others with. Lol.
Still, they made a great phone, and it moved the industry. Kudos to them for that. Now, they are trying to stop the industry that they built.
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist".
Now THAT's offensive. You're talking to someone who thinks U2, Coldplay, Metallica, AC/DC, Guns and Roses and Nirvana to be overrated bands with no real substance. Paris Hilton? Lady Gaga? Beyonce? LMFAO? They should be put in jail for diminishing the world's collective IQ and cultural levels.
Quote:
If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there.
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure most devs would rather code in C++ instead of Obj-C if they could.
BTW, since WP8 shares its kernel with desktop Windows (and includes DirectX 11), porting apps will be as hard as rebuilding the interface. Pretty smart move from MS if you ask me.
Quote:
I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
Really? Try installing iOS 1.0, or even 2.0, then come here and tell me that again. Anyway, *that* base functionality isn't what's still missing (and coming to WP8). We're talking about high-res support, SD card support, dual-core support. As far as actual OS usage goes, there's a lot where WP7.5 is already ahead of iOS 6. Downloadable local maps? Unified social hub?
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure most devs would rather code in C++ instead of Obj-C if they could.
BTW, since WP8 shares its kernel with desktop Windows (and includes DirectX 11), porting apps will be as hard as rebuilding the interface. Pretty smart move from MS if you ask me.
FYI, Obj-C is merely an extension to pure GnuC, so you have all the freedom to use C++ an C code into iOS Apps. In an other hand, while WP8 share the same Win NT kernel, Having Windows Kernel does not mean every API will be there. Microsoft won't port all Windows runtime API like .NET, DCOM and VBRun to ARM version of Windows, so the majority of existing Windows apps won't be ported on WP8 less they already use or change to C# and Metro API, and if you've code a little, you should know how horrible C# is. After 4 years, iOS and Objective-C have proven to be one of the most flexible smalltalk message-passing object based language out there, with real cross-plateform C based API like OpenGL and OpenCL.
Beside, iOS always had high-res and dual-core support, and Apple got iOS kernel and runtime API right at their first release. Microsoft is now restarting their mobile platform Kernel and runtime API for a third time with WP8 announcement, and still doesn't unified Phone and Tablet apps.
I can't disagree with anything that you have said but add that IMO it has been handled rather badly with no assurances from either MS or Nokia, by that I mean that they should be stressing that the overall experience wont be massively different.
If the next iphone has, for example, NFC, I doubt that owners of the 4s and older would be crying foul. I guess that the difference is that Apple would unify the iOS version and point out that not all new features of iOS or new apps would be available on older handsets (as is already the case).
Perhaps MS are guilty of being too honest and wanting to prevent confusion between wp7.8 and W8 compatibility
Can't agree more. Microsoft have, in my eyes, never been an advertising power house when it comes to consumer electronics.
Anyone cringe when you saw the following?
Windows7 - "Windows 7 was my idea!"
Xbox - "Life is too short - Jump In!" (or, as I like to call it, the iconic 90s playstation advert after taking a few whacks to the face with a medieval mace)
Zune - Man litterally shitting paint... Nuff said...
Surface - DUBSTEP WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB. There's a kick stand in here somewhere as well...
I actually found the "Windows 7 was my idea" more cringe worthy than any of their other adverts (yes, even the Zune). I don't know what it was about it, it just made me so angry.
Beside, iOS always had high-res and dual-core support, and Apple got iOS kernel and runtime API right at their first release. Microsoft is now restarting their mobile platform Kernel and runtime API for a third time with WP8 announcement, and still doesn't unified Phone and Tablet apps.
Drooling over WP8 is more blings than substance.
You think I don't know iOS had dual-core support (high res, OTOH, I doubt)? And funny you should talk about unified Phone and Tablet apps as if it were an intrinsically good thing.
What, exactly, is "blings" about WP8?
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
Can't agree more. Microsoft have, in my eyes, never been an advertising power house when it comes to consumer electronics.
Anyone cringe when you saw the following?
Windows7 - "Windows 7 was my idea!"
Xbox - "Life is too short - Jump In!" (or, as I like to call it, the iconic 90s playstation advert after taking a few whacks to the face with a medieval mace)
Zune - Man litterally shitting paint... Nuff said...
Surface - DUBSTEP WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB. There's a kick stand in here somewhere as well...
I actually found the "Windows 7 was my idea" more cringe worthy than any of their other adverts (yes, even the Zune). I don't know what it was about it, it just made me so angry.
Sorry, getting off on a tangent here. :P
And here's why I hate the tech scene nowadays. Back in 2007, it was so easy picking sides - only Apple was undeniably competent. Now, everyone's got their major strengths and flaws. Microsoft has been doing some interesting stuff lately, but the majority of the company is still the old, dumb Microsoft we love to hate.
At least this should make fanboys a more obvious sight. And hopefully, diminish their numbers
You think I don't know iOS had dual-core support (high res, OTOH, I doubt)? And funny you should talk about unified Phone and Tablet apps as if it were an intrinsically good thing.
What, exactly, is "blings" about WP8?
Quartz window manager doesn't have any resolution limit like QuickDraw or Windows GDI and can easily manage heterogeneous resolution UI done on iOS and retina MBP. Unified IDE for mobile products who share the same touch input principe and same resources limitations make a much better ecosystem either for devs and consumers than Microsoft approach of lets WP8 being alone in is corner while creating a new third platform (WindowsRT) which can't run either WP8 or Windows 8 apps.
Beside sharing the same Windows name, Microsoft has never put any effort into unifying their ecosystem, each Microsoft platform has their own apps and can't be shared across Microsoft product line, right now Microsoft have 4 distinct platform (counting the Xbox) with no way for a user to buy one apps and run it everywhere nor a way for a developper to create one apps and reach a unified ecosystem that will grown overtime. Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish. And my prediction is Microsoft will somehow merge WP8 and Windows RT in the future, rebooting his IDE once again.
Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish.
To reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread;
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Microsoft Will also keep updating WP7.8 for 18 months after its release.
So no, WP7 developers will not have to redo their apps and users of older hardware are not forgotten.
Now lets compare that with Apple:
Want the new Maps? Buy a 4s.
Want Siri? Buy a 4s.
Want Air Play Mirroring on your Mac? Apple TV 2 and a Mac from 2011 or newer.
Its been shown that the iPhone 4 can handle Siri (and theoretically, the new maps as well) and my Nokia Lumia 900 with its single core CPU does all the things Siri can do without question (using the Microsoft "TellMe" software) and it has the brilliant Nokia Maps software and SatNav pre-installed. The 3GS is even worse, yet the Lumia 610 sells for £150 Pay As You Go (more than half the price of the 3GS on PAYG) and has all the features of the flagship Lumia 900 where the 3GS struggles to keep up feature wise with the iPhone 4, let alone the 4S.
My late 2010 Quad i7 iMac is still a very powerful and very capable machine - yet it apparently cannot handle streaming video to a little black box. So the main feature I was after in Mountain Lion, Air Play mirroring, I cannot have.
If this computer cost £200, then fair enough - but it didn't: this is £2000 worth of computer, it is less than 2 years old and for some bullshit reason I cannot have AirPlay mirroring. I can handle virtual machines, Photoshop CS5, Dreamweaver CS5, 5 way skype conference calls, Excel 2011, iOS simulator, Mail, Outlook 2011, iChat, Safari and Remote Desktop all at once, yet it can't stream video to an Apple TV.
Bull. Shit.
Its artificial limitations at its finest.
Microsoft may be backwards and confusing 95% of the time, but you cannot deny that they beat the competition with a stick when it comes to support. WindowsXP is 11 years old this year and you still get regular security updates to it! Windows 2000 was fully supported until mid 2010!
Quartz window manager doesn't have any resolution limit like QuickDraw or Windows GDI and can easily manage heterogeneous resolution UI done on iOS and retina MBP. Unified IDE for mobile products who share the same touch input principe and same resources limitations make a much better ecosystem either for devs and consumers than Microsoft approach of lets WP8 being alone in is corner while creating a new third platform (WindowsRT) which can't run either WP8 or Windows 8 apps.
I wasn't talking about rendering high resolutions, but instead of the system being ready to deploy high resolution interfaces. Even OS X needed changes when MBP Retina came out. Could have Apple released the iPhone with iOS 3? No?
As for RT, I stand by my thought that it's still better than doing minimal changes on a phone OS and putting it on a 10 inch tablet.
Quote:
Beside sharing the same Windows name, Microsoft has never put any effort into unifying their ecosystem, each Microsoft platform has their own apps and can't be shared across Microsoft product line, right now Microsoft have 4 distinct platform (counting the Xbox) with no way for a user to buy one apps and run it everywhere nor a way for a developper to create one apps and reach a unified ecosystem that will grown overtime.
Which is why Microsoft is making it so Windows 8 apps can be ported to WP8 as easily as possible....
Quote:
Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish. And my prediction is Microsoft will somehow merge WP8 and Windows RT in the future, rebooting his IDE once again.
They have explicitly said that any and all existing WP7 apps can run on WP8. Even resolution differences are being handled.
Once again I must ask: what features from WP8 are just bling?
To reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread;
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Microsoft Will also keep updating WP7.8 for 18 months after its release.
So no, WP7 developers will not have to redo their apps and users of older hardware are not forgotten.
Now lets compare that with Apple:
Want the new Maps? Buy a 4s.
Want Siri? Buy a 4s.
Want Air Play Mirroring on your Mac? Apple TV 2 and a Mac from 2011 or newer.
Its been shown that the iPhone 4 can handle Siri (and theoretically, the new maps as well) and my Nokia Lumia 900 with its single core CPU does all the things Siri can do without question (using the Microsoft "TellMe" software) and it has the brilliant Nokia Maps software and SatNav pre-installed. The 3GS is even worse, yet the Lumia 610 sells for £150 Pay As You Go (more than half the price of the 3GS on PAYG) and has all the features of the flagship Lumia 900 where the 3GS struggles to keep up feature wise with the iPhone 4, let alone the 4S.
My late 2010 Quad i7 iMac is still a very powerful and very capable machine - yet it apparently cannot handle streaming video to a little black box. So the main feature I was after in Mountain Lion, Air Play mirroring, I cannot have.
If this computer cost £200, then fair enough - but it didn't: this is £2000 worth of computer, it is less than 2 years old and for some bullshit reason I cannot have AirPlay mirroring. I can handle virtual machines, Photoshop CS5, Dreamweaver CS5, 5 way skype conference calls, Excel 2011, iOS simulator, Mail, Outlook 2011, iChat, Safari and Remote Desktop all at once, yet it can't stream video to an Apple TV.
Bull. Shit.
Its artificial limitations at its finest.
Microsoft may be backwards and confusing 95% of the time, but you cannot deny that they beat the competition with a stick when it comes to support. WindowsXP is 11 years old this year and you still get regular security updates to it! Windows 2000 was fully supported until mid 2010!
</slightly-off-topic-rant>
is the 18 month WP support offical? sounds fair, I just hadn't seen it mention before. It is better than the lack of official support that WM (ever) had.
with regard to artificial limits, yep they suck. Even if apple or ms decide that your experience on a one or two generations old computer might be sub par, I think that you should be given the opportunity to try it.
Hey, what a shocker! It seems no one can actually care to explain why WP8 features are just bling!
That coming from people frequenting websites about a company that bothers to add gyroscopic effects to their reflections, but not to make sure their voice control system has more than just basic commands for the Music app!
I wasn't talking about rendering high resolutions, but instead of the system being ready to deploy high resolution interfaces. Even OS X needed changes when MBP Retina came out. Could have Apple released the iPhone with iOS 3? No
OSX changes for MBP Retina was pretty minor and cosmetic, ever since 10.3 you can change the UI DPI in Quartz Dev tool. I don't see anything that could limit Apple to come out with retina display on desktop or mobile earlier beside the hardware wasn't ready yet for mass production. Still the competition as no response to Retina display.
As for RT, I stand by my thought that it's still better than doing minimal changes on a phone OS and putting it on a 10 inch tablet.
You seams to believe iOS is built from the ground up on a phone, like Android, BlackBerry, WinMo. Actually iOS as begun is life on the tablet prototype first in Apple lab as a fork of OSX. The key here is unifying development for device who shares the same controls principles and architecture (Mobile Touch input vs Desktop Keyboard and mouse) and split phones and tablets on a UI level only, you don't need a third and separated development environment like Microsoft is doing with RT. I'm pretty i'm not the only one who has loved to rediscover their iPhone apps on the iPad when it first come out, and still today I will much prefer buy an "universal" apps than ones only made for iPhone or iPad.
Which is why Microsoft is making it so Windows 8 apps can be ported to WP8 as easily as possible....
What Microsoft have specifically announced will make porting apps between Windows 8 and WP8 as easily as possible, having the same kernel doesn't gives any guarantee. Have you read news lately about problems to port third party browser and plugins on WindowsRT? iOS on a developement level is the same as Mac OS X with all is core API (Quicktime, Quartz, Core Audio, Core Video), and even brings back iOS API to OSX (ex; Core Location), have you seen how many iOS apps have been ported back to the Mac Apps Store? Which is not true on Windows ecosystem, Windows RT, WP8 and Windows 8 doesn't share the same APIs and IDE. Even Microsoft is unable to port Office on other platform, they redo everything from scratch on all platform, and current beta of Office for Windows 8 are unusable on touch device, Windows RT version of Office will be a completely different beast. Truth is, DCOM apps never was easily portable and still being use by majority of apps on Windows, including Microsoft own apps.
They have explicitly said that any and all existing WP7 apps can run on WP8. Even resolution differences are being handled.
Yes, and they explicitly said they depreciated WP7 apps and WP8 Metro apps won't run on any current Windows phone. And for all those existing WP7 apps they will be second grade apps on WP8. WP7 has being a big mistake for Microsoft and will be remember as a transitional OS, they kill WinMo ecosytem to bring a half breed OS.
?Once again I must ask: what features from WP8 are just bling?
What key feature brings WP8 over the competition? I've watched Microsoft keynotes on WP8 and Surface, and I haven't yet see any feature who fondamentally add something new to mobile computing. Microsoft biggest features and WP7.8 selling point is the fact you can now arrange tiles sizes as you like. That what I called bling for fanboy, it won't bring better apps to this new born platform.
That coming from people frequenting websites about a company that bothers to add gyroscopic effects to their reflections, but not to make sure their voice control system has more than just basic commands for the Music app!
I think if you are curious about technologies underneath user interface, you should watch WWDC sessions and learn how crucial it is to have good and diversified API for making a great and rich apps platform. Something Microsoft has yet to prove with WP8
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Rubbish, WP7.8 an 8 doesn't have the same features (it doesn't even share the same browser) and the same kernel. WP7.8 is still based on WinCE kernel, only silverlight apps will run on 7.8 and 8. Compiled C apps made for WP8 won't run on 7.8.
is the 18 month WP support offical? sounds fair, I just hadn't seen it mention before. It is better than the lack of official support that WM (ever) had.
with regard to artificial limits, yep they suck. Even if apple or ms decide that your experience on a one or two generations old computer might be sub par, I think that you should be given the opportunity to try it.
From what I've read, yes the 18 months is official. Which is why I'm more than happy to keep my iPhone neatly in its box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Rubbish, WP7.8 an 8 doesn't have the same features (it doesn't even share the same browser) and the same kernel. WP7.8 is still based on WinCE kernel, only silverlight apps will run on 7.8 and 8. Compiled C apps made for WP8 won't run on 7.8.
C# and VB via Silverlight or XNA all compile down to one language: CLR (Common Language Runtime). Applications can either be developed for WP8 only using CLR as well as C/C++, or you can develop for both using CLR alone. C/C++, according to Microsoft, is to get more people to develop for both Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 simultaneously since both will be portable; but Microsoft have shot themselves in the foot because CLR is the platform they are still pushing like crazy and have built a giant developer network around it. The vast majority of their consumer base will be using the [dot]NET framework.
Just look at the XBOX; you can program in C++, but only multi-million dollar game companies actually do. The vast majority (if not everything) in the XBLA is done with XNA.
Yes, I am aware that WP7.8 is not getting IE10Mobile. But its just little enhancements and some extra HTML5 events. It still doesn't matter because, if you visit the vast majority of web sites with internet explorer then hit F12, you'll see that its running in either IE8 or IE7 mode anyway. Even sites like British Airways run in IE7 standards mode.
C# and VB via Silverlight or XNA all compile down to one language: CLR (Common Language Runtime). Applications can either be developed for WP8 only using CLR as well as C/C++, or you can develop for both using CLR alone.
Yes every language based on .NET got compile into bitcodes just like Java or LLVM, that doesn't include DCOM and non-.NET VB which still represent the majority of apps on Windows. Beside, you don't address directly the fact that WP7.8, WP8, WinRT and Windows 8 doesn't shares the same basic API.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42
It'll be interesting to see who goes tits up first - Nokia or RIM...
I'm betting on Nokia. RIM at least has their service business to bring in some revenue - their message network. Nokia's got nothing much apart from their now-worthless phones.
They own a shit-ton of patents.
.tsooJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
Wow, so many bullshit in one comment section.
iOS 6 has no other big surprises, no cards up its sleeve. The wallet app? Android has it, and WP8's is better than both. Speaking of WP8, all of this laziness on part of Google and Apple is leaving the door open for Microsoft to not only catch up with them, but to surpass them completely. Laugh if you must, but I'll be buying a Nokia Lumia 801 (or whatever it will be called) as soon as it's out. And sell my 4S to buy it.
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist". If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there. I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist". If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there. I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
Nobody gets it right the first time. When you talk like that, its you who looks like a spoiled kid. When the first iPhone came out, it had its kinks, some bugs, some changes needed to be made, some to be improved. No one got it right the first time, so don't overexert yourself spewing the belief that Apple has planted in you. Sure they made a great phone, but even they know that they need to improve somehow.
The problem is that they are running out of ideas because they are too busy looking up what other "IP" they can sue others with. Lol.
Still, they made a great phone, and it moved the industry. Kudos to them for that. Now, they are trying to stop the industry that they built.
Two replies to my comment. Two posts which can be shortened as "Well you are STUPID!"
Amount of actual reasons as to why iOS 6 isn't a minor upgrade and will kick WP8's ass: ZERO.
Stay classy, AppleInsider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
You talk like a spoiled kid who drool for Paris Hilton or Lady Gaga, all blings and no substance "artist".
Now THAT's offensive. You're talking to someone who thinks U2, Coldplay, Metallica, AC/DC, Guns and Roses and Nirvana to be overrated bands with no real substance. Paris Hilton? Lady Gaga? Beyonce? LMFAO? They should be put in jail for diminishing the world's collective IQ and cultural levels.
Quote:
If you can't see how things really works under the hood of any OS, you should keep your comments for your self. Right now on a dev level, iOS is the best apps platform out there.
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure most devs would rather code in C++ instead of Obj-C if they could.
BTW, since WP8 shares its kernel with desktop Windows (and includes DirectX 11), porting apps will be as hard as rebuilding the interface. Pretty smart move from MS if you ask me.
Quote:
I don't care much for base functionality anymore since Apple got it right at they're first release, I care much about having a great platform for running great apps.
Really? Try installing iOS 1.0, or even 2.0, then come here and tell me that again. Anyway, *that* base functionality isn't what's still missing (and coming to WP8). We're talking about high-res support, SD card support, dual-core support. As far as actual OS usage goes, there's a lot where WP7.5 is already ahead of iOS 6. Downloadable local maps? Unified social hub?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure most devs would rather code in C++ instead of Obj-C if they could.
BTW, since WP8 shares its kernel with desktop Windows (and includes DirectX 11), porting apps will be as hard as rebuilding the interface. Pretty smart move from MS if you ask me.
FYI, Obj-C is merely an extension to pure GnuC, so you have all the freedom to use C++ an C code into iOS Apps. In an other hand, while WP8 share the same Win NT kernel, Having Windows Kernel does not mean every API will be there. Microsoft won't port all Windows runtime API like .NET, DCOM and VBRun to ARM version of Windows, so the majority of existing Windows apps won't be ported on WP8 less they already use or change to C# and Metro API, and if you've code a little, you should know how horrible C# is. After 4 years, iOS and Objective-C have proven to be one of the most flexible smalltalk message-passing object based language out there, with real cross-plateform C based API like OpenGL and OpenCL.
Beside, iOS always had high-res and dual-core support, and Apple got iOS kernel and runtime API right at their first release. Microsoft is now restarting their mobile platform Kernel and runtime API for a third time with WP8 announcement, and still doesn't unified Phone and Tablet apps.
Drooling over WP8 is more blings than substance.
Can't agree more. Microsoft have, in my eyes, never been an advertising power house when it comes to consumer electronics.
Anyone cringe when you saw the following?
Windows7 - "Windows 7 was my idea!"
Xbox - "Life is too short - Jump In!" (or, as I like to call it, the iconic 90s playstation advert after taking a few whacks to the face with a medieval mace)
Zune - Man litterally shitting paint... Nuff said...
Surface - DUBSTEP WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB. There's a kick stand in here somewhere as well...
I actually found the "Windows 7 was my idea" more cringe worthy than any of their other adverts (yes, even the Zune). I don't know what it was about it, it just made me so angry.
Sorry, getting off on a tangent here. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Beside, iOS always had high-res and dual-core support, and Apple got iOS kernel and runtime API right at their first release. Microsoft is now restarting their mobile platform Kernel and runtime API for a third time with WP8 announcement, and still doesn't unified Phone and Tablet apps.
Drooling over WP8 is more blings than substance.
You think I don't know iOS had dual-core support (high res, OTOH, I doubt)? And funny you should talk about unified Phone and Tablet apps as if it were an intrinsically good thing.
What, exactly, is "blings" about WP8?
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
Can't agree more. Microsoft have, in my eyes, never been an advertising power house when it comes to consumer electronics.
Anyone cringe when you saw the following?
Windows7 - "Windows 7 was my idea!"
Xbox - "Life is too short - Jump In!" (or, as I like to call it, the iconic 90s playstation advert after taking a few whacks to the face with a medieval mace)
Zune - Man litterally shitting paint... Nuff said...
Surface - DUBSTEP WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB WUUB. There's a kick stand in here somewhere as well...
I actually found the "Windows 7 was my idea" more cringe worthy than any of their other adverts (yes, even the Zune). I don't know what it was about it, it just made me so angry.
Sorry, getting off on a tangent here. :P
And here's why I hate the tech scene nowadays. Back in 2007, it was so easy picking sides - only Apple was undeniably competent. Now, everyone's got their major strengths and flaws. Microsoft has been doing some interesting stuff lately, but the majority of the company is still the old, dumb Microsoft we love to hate.
At least this should make fanboys a more obvious sight. And hopefully, diminish their numbers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
You think I don't know iOS had dual-core support (high res, OTOH, I doubt)? And funny you should talk about unified Phone and Tablet apps as if it were an intrinsically good thing.
What, exactly, is "blings" about WP8?
Quartz window manager doesn't have any resolution limit like QuickDraw or Windows GDI and can easily manage heterogeneous resolution UI done on iOS and retina MBP. Unified IDE for mobile products who share the same touch input principe and same resources limitations make a much better ecosystem either for devs and consumers than Microsoft approach of lets WP8 being alone in is corner while creating a new third platform (WindowsRT) which can't run either WP8 or Windows 8 apps.
Beside sharing the same Windows name, Microsoft has never put any effort into unifying their ecosystem, each Microsoft platform has their own apps and can't be shared across Microsoft product line, right now Microsoft have 4 distinct platform (counting the Xbox) with no way for a user to buy one apps and run it everywhere nor a way for a developper to create one apps and reach a unified ecosystem that will grown overtime. Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish. And my prediction is Microsoft will somehow merge WP8 and Windows RT in the future, rebooting his IDE once again.
Quote:
Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish.
To reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread;
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Microsoft Will also keep updating WP7.8 for 18 months after its release.
So no, WP7 developers will not have to redo their apps and users of older hardware are not forgotten.
Now lets compare that with Apple:
Want the new Maps? Buy a 4s.
Want Siri? Buy a 4s.
Want Air Play Mirroring on your Mac? Apple TV 2 and a Mac from 2011 or newer.
Its been shown that the iPhone 4 can handle Siri (and theoretically, the new maps as well) and my Nokia Lumia 900 with its single core CPU does all the things Siri can do without question (using the Microsoft "TellMe" software) and it has the brilliant Nokia Maps software and SatNav pre-installed. The 3GS is even worse, yet the Lumia 610 sells for £150 Pay As You Go (more than half the price of the 3GS on PAYG) and has all the features of the flagship Lumia 900 where the 3GS struggles to keep up feature wise with the iPhone 4, let alone the 4S.
My late 2010 Quad i7 iMac is still a very powerful and very capable machine - yet it apparently cannot handle streaming video to a little black box. So the main feature I was after in Mountain Lion, Air Play mirroring, I cannot have.
If this computer cost £200, then fair enough - but it didn't: this is £2000 worth of computer, it is less than 2 years old and for some bullshit reason I cannot have AirPlay mirroring. I can handle virtual machines, Photoshop CS5, Dreamweaver CS5, 5 way skype conference calls, Excel 2011, iOS simulator, Mail, Outlook 2011, iChat, Safari and Remote Desktop all at once, yet it can't stream video to an Apple TV.
Bull. Shit.
Its artificial limitations at its finest.
Microsoft may be backwards and confusing 95% of the time, but you cannot deny that they beat the competition with a stick when it comes to support. WindowsXP is 11 years old this year and you still get regular security updates to it! Windows 2000 was fully supported until mid 2010!
</slightly-off-topic-rant>
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Quartz window manager doesn't have any resolution limit like QuickDraw or Windows GDI and can easily manage heterogeneous resolution UI done on iOS and retina MBP. Unified IDE for mobile products who share the same touch input principe and same resources limitations make a much better ecosystem either for devs and consumers than Microsoft approach of lets WP8 being alone in is corner while creating a new third platform (WindowsRT) which can't run either WP8 or Windows 8 apps.
I wasn't talking about rendering high resolutions, but instead of the system being ready to deploy high resolution interfaces. Even OS X needed changes when MBP Retina came out. Could have Apple released the iPhone with iOS 3? No?
As for RT, I stand by my thought that it's still better than doing minimal changes on a phone OS and putting it on a 10 inch tablet.
Quote:
Beside sharing the same Windows name, Microsoft has never put any effort into unifying their ecosystem, each Microsoft platform has their own apps and can't be shared across Microsoft product line, right now Microsoft have 4 distinct platform (counting the Xbox) with no way for a user to buy one apps and run it everywhere nor a way for a developper to create one apps and reach a unified ecosystem that will grown overtime.
Which is why Microsoft is making it so Windows 8 apps can be ported to WP8 as easily as possible....
Quote:
Now with their new rebooted WP8 platform, Microsoft is telling to all WP7 developer to redo their apps once again or vanish. And my prediction is Microsoft will somehow merge WP8 and Windows RT in the future, rebooting his IDE once again.
They have explicitly said that any and all existing WP7 apps can run on WP8. Even resolution differences are being handled.
Once again I must ask: what features from WP8 are just bling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
To reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread;
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Microsoft Will also keep updating WP7.8 for 18 months after its release.
So no, WP7 developers will not have to redo their apps and users of older hardware are not forgotten.
Now lets compare that with Apple:
Want the new Maps? Buy a 4s.
Want Siri? Buy a 4s.
Want Air Play Mirroring on your Mac? Apple TV 2 and a Mac from 2011 or newer.
Its been shown that the iPhone 4 can handle Siri (and theoretically, the new maps as well) and my Nokia Lumia 900 with its single core CPU does all the things Siri can do without question (using the Microsoft "TellMe" software) and it has the brilliant Nokia Maps software and SatNav pre-installed. The 3GS is even worse, yet the Lumia 610 sells for £150 Pay As You Go (more than half the price of the 3GS on PAYG) and has all the features of the flagship Lumia 900 where the 3GS struggles to keep up feature wise with the iPhone 4, let alone the 4S.
My late 2010 Quad i7 iMac is still a very powerful and very capable machine - yet it apparently cannot handle streaming video to a little black box. So the main feature I was after in Mountain Lion, Air Play mirroring, I cannot have.
If this computer cost £200, then fair enough - but it didn't: this is £2000 worth of computer, it is less than 2 years old and for some bullshit reason I cannot have AirPlay mirroring. I can handle virtual machines, Photoshop CS5, Dreamweaver CS5, 5 way skype conference calls, Excel 2011, iOS simulator, Mail, Outlook 2011, iChat, Safari and Remote Desktop all at once, yet it can't stream video to an Apple TV.
Bull. Shit.
Its artificial limitations at its finest.
Microsoft may be backwards and confusing 95% of the time, but you cannot deny that they beat the competition with a stick when it comes to support. WindowsXP is 11 years old this year and you still get regular security updates to it! Windows 2000 was fully supported until mid 2010!
</slightly-off-topic-rant>
is the 18 month WP support offical? sounds fair, I just hadn't seen it mention before. It is better than the lack of official support that WM (ever) had.
with regard to artificial limits, yep they suck. Even if apple or ms decide that your experience on a one or two generations old computer might be sub par, I think that you should be given the opportunity to try it.
Why people here all have a sharp toungue?
To be honest, W7 is a user friendly system and W8 will definitely be better.
Hey, what a shocker! It seems no one can actually care to explain why WP8 features are just bling!
That coming from people frequenting websites about a company that bothers to add gyroscopic effects to their reflections, but not to make sure their voice control system has more than just basic commands for the Music app!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
I wasn't talking about rendering high resolutions, but instead of the system being ready to deploy high resolution interfaces. Even OS X needed changes when MBP Retina came out. Could have Apple released the iPhone with iOS 3? No
OSX changes for MBP Retina was pretty minor and cosmetic, ever since 10.3 you can change the UI DPI in Quartz Dev tool. I don't see anything that could limit Apple to come out with retina display on desktop or mobile earlier beside the hardware wasn't ready yet for mass production. Still the competition as no response to Retina display.
As for RT, I stand by my thought that it's still better than doing minimal changes on a phone OS and putting it on a 10 inch tablet.
You seams to believe iOS is built from the ground up on a phone, like Android, BlackBerry, WinMo. Actually iOS as begun is life on the tablet prototype first in Apple lab as a fork of OSX. The key here is unifying development for device who shares the same controls principles and architecture (Mobile Touch input vs Desktop Keyboard and mouse) and split phones and tablets on a UI level only, you don't need a third and separated development environment like Microsoft is doing with RT. I'm pretty i'm not the only one who has loved to rediscover their iPhone apps on the iPad when it first come out, and still today I will much prefer buy an "universal" apps than ones only made for iPhone or iPad.
Which is why Microsoft is making it so Windows 8 apps can be ported to WP8 as easily as possible....
What Microsoft have specifically announced will make porting apps between Windows 8 and WP8 as easily as possible, having the same kernel doesn't gives any guarantee. Have you read news lately about problems to port third party browser and plugins on WindowsRT? iOS on a developement level is the same as Mac OS X with all is core API (Quicktime, Quartz, Core Audio, Core Video), and even brings back iOS API to OSX (ex; Core Location), have you seen how many iOS apps have been ported back to the Mac Apps Store? Which is not true on Windows ecosystem, Windows RT, WP8 and Windows 8 doesn't share the same APIs and IDE. Even Microsoft is unable to port Office on other platform, they redo everything from scratch on all platform, and current beta of Office for Windows 8 are unusable on touch device, Windows RT version of Office will be a completely different beast. Truth is, DCOM apps never was easily portable and still being use by majority of apps on Windows, including Microsoft own apps.
They have explicitly said that any and all existing WP7 apps can run on WP8. Even resolution differences are being handled.
Yes, and they explicitly said they depreciated WP7 apps and WP8 Metro apps won't run on any current Windows phone. And for all those existing WP7 apps they will be second grade apps on WP8. WP7 has being a big mistake for Microsoft and will be remember as a transitional OS, they kill WinMo ecosytem to bring a half breed OS.
?Once again I must ask: what features from WP8 are just bling?
What key feature brings WP8 over the competition? I've watched Microsoft keynotes on WP8 and Surface, and I haven't yet see any feature who fondamentally add something new to mobile computing. Microsoft biggest features and WP7.8 selling point is the fact you can now arrange tiles sizes as you like. That what I called bling for fanboy, it won't bring better apps to this new born platform.
That coming from people frequenting websites about a company that bothers to add gyroscopic effects to their reflections, but not to make sure their voice control system has more than just basic commands for the Music app!
I think if you are curious about technologies underneath user interface, you should watch WWDC sessions and learn how crucial it is to have good and diversified API for making a great and rich apps platform. Something Microsoft has yet to prove with WP8
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
Windows Phone 7.8 and Windows Phone 8 can run the same application and have the same features. The only difference between the two is that 7.8 is meant for older hardware platforms and 8 has APIs and support for newer hardware (such as NFC and Multi-Core processors).
Rubbish, WP7.8 an 8 doesn't have the same features (it doesn't even share the same browser) and the same kernel. WP7.8 is still based on WinCE kernel, only silverlight apps will run on 7.8 and 8. Compiled C apps made for WP8 won't run on 7.8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
is the 18 month WP support offical? sounds fair, I just hadn't seen it mention before. It is better than the lack of official support that WM (ever) had.
with regard to artificial limits, yep they suck. Even if apple or ms decide that your experience on a one or two generations old computer might be sub par, I think that you should be given the opportunity to try it.
From what I've read, yes the 18 months is official. Which is why I'm more than happy to keep my iPhone neatly in its box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Rubbish, WP7.8 an 8 doesn't have the same features (it doesn't even share the same browser) and the same kernel. WP7.8 is still based on WinCE kernel, only silverlight apps will run on 7.8 and 8. Compiled C apps made for WP8 won't run on 7.8.
C# and VB via Silverlight or XNA all compile down to one language: CLR (Common Language Runtime). Applications can either be developed for WP8 only using CLR as well as C/C++, or you can develop for both using CLR alone. C/C++, according to Microsoft, is to get more people to develop for both Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 simultaneously since both will be portable; but Microsoft have shot themselves in the foot because CLR is the platform they are still pushing like crazy and have built a giant developer network around it. The vast majority of their consumer base will be using the [dot]NET framework.
Just look at the XBOX; you can program in C++, but only multi-million dollar game companies actually do. The vast majority (if not everything) in the XBLA is done with XNA.
Yes, I am aware that WP7.8 is not getting IE10Mobile. But its just little enhancements and some extra HTML5 events. It still doesn't matter because, if you visit the vast majority of web sites with internet explorer then hit F12, you'll see that its running in either IE8 or IE7 mode anyway. Even sites like British Airways run in IE7 standards mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89
C# and VB via Silverlight or XNA all compile down to one language: CLR (Common Language Runtime). Applications can either be developed for WP8 only using CLR as well as C/C++, or you can develop for both using CLR alone.
Yes every language based on .NET got compile into bitcodes just like Java or LLVM, that doesn't include DCOM and non-.NET VB which still represent the majority of apps on Windows. Beside, you don't address directly the fact that WP7.8, WP8, WinRT and Windows 8 doesn't shares the same basic API.
FYI, no sane developer codes directly bitcode,
This is wonderful. I am really amazed to know about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by breezebreeze
Why people here all have a sharp toungue?
For the same reason that many come here to say absolutely nothing but bad things about Apple.
Quote:
…W8 will definitely be better.
Well, we know someone who hasn't used it…