Apple, Google appeal dismissal of Apple v. Motorola suit

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  • Reply 21 of 48
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post


    Wait...there's a country somewhere with a "fair and just judicial system"??!?!!?



     


    Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

  • Reply 22 of 48
    fredaroonyfredaroony Posts: 619member
    hill60 wrote: »
    Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

    lol you don't even know the first thing about simple consumer law in your own country so your comments regarding the court system in another country doesn't hold a lot of weight.
  • Reply 23 of 48
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post





    lol you don't even know the first thing about simple consumer law in your own country so your comments regarding the court system in another country doesn't hold a lot of weight.


     


    Is that because Apple released an iPad that is incapable of working on ANY 4G networks ANYWHERE on Earth, according to the ACCC?

  • Reply 24 of 48
    fredaroonyfredaroony Posts: 619member
    hill60 wrote: »
    Is that because Apple released an iPad that is incapable of working on ANY 4G networks ANYWHERE on Earth, according to the ACCC?

    That comment combined with your signature quote says a lot about you....

    You should really ask your manager at DSE/JBHIFI/Harvey Norman etc to send you on some training.
  • Reply 25 of 48
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post





    That comment combined with your signature quote says a lot about you....

    You should really ask your manager at DSE/JBHIFI/Harvey Norman etc to send you on some training.


     


    I think you meant to answer his question about the iPad being incapable of working on 4G networks anywhere on Earth.


     


    Did you want to have a crack at providing an answer again?

  • Reply 26 of 48
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Now that Google is appealing to dismissal of this court case will GatorGuy finally acknowledge that Google is controlling Motorola's court cases?


    Of course they are. That's a silly question on the face of it. They've been in control since the purchase closed, and not a minute before. They may treat Moto as a separate entity for business purposes, but there's no doubt from anyone anywhere (AFAIK) that they call the ultimate shots there now. They own 'em.


     


    I'll assume the second part of your question just wasn't asked yet, so here's my opinion.  No, this isn't Google initiating a lawsuit against a competitor. This lawsuit wasn't started by Google, but they're now in the position of finishing it out, along with a couple others they've inherited. I suspect Apple wouldn't be willing to drop things if Moto would. do you?


     


    I'm certain that as good as Google's legal team is, and they've been stellar, if they say an appeal is now a legal necessity then Google management is going to follow their advice. It doesn't make it a new case.


     


    Just wait a while longer. I'm certain Google will eventually start something against Apple or Microsoft. It may or may not be viewed as a defensive move by the press, but plenty big enough to clearly prove they've sued a competitor. Then Google can can be as litigious as the rest of the tech world in your view, and everyone else can go back to viewing Apple as being picked on. Did I anticipate the followup question correctly?

  • Reply 27 of 48
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    hill60 wrote: »
    Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

    Yes, he has given Apple very solid grounds for an appeal. In addition to the clear bias, he made decisions regarding patent law that require an expert opinion. In the article cited above (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/why-there-are-too-many-patents-in-america/259725/), he states: "I am not enough of an expert in patent law to come down flatly in favor of any of the reforms that I have listed. " If he's not an expert in patent law, he shouldn't be handling patent cases, especially high profile ones like this one.

    So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).

    Just as in the Samsung case, this one is ripe for being overturned. And, just like the Samsung case, all the fandroids are wetting themselves over the issue and will be disappointed in the end.
  • Reply 28 of 48
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

    So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).


    Is Apple using either of those arguments as the basis for their appeal?

  • Reply 29 of 48
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,865member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Of course they are. That's a silly question on the face of it. They've been in control since the purchase closed, and not a minute before



     


    You have to give him points for sticking to his talking points and giving reality the finger, but, of course, Google was in control of Motorola's legal team from the instant the acquisition was announced, and not a minute later.


     


    Posner, I think, may have had a CVA or two. First he drives his court into the weeds because he has suddenly taken a dislike to patent law, then he starts giving interviews about how he's embracing the liberal lifestyle. Sudden personality changes are often indications that the patient has suffered a stroke.

  • Reply 30 of 48
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Wait, is this the 3G patent case?

    Not totally, but yes I believe there were some issues of FRAND in Apple's suit.

    I agree with the notion that these things need to be heard, if only to clean up some of the things the USPTO had been granting that they need to cease. But at the same time it seems like too many diverse issues came up and that confusion of going all over the place might be more cruel that a long trial or several of them.
  • Reply 31 of 48
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    hill60 wrote: »
    Is that because Apple released an iPad that is incapable of working on ANY 4G networks ANYWHERE on Earth, according to the ACCC?

    Moot issue for the discussion.

    As for the other comment, yes this man's open comments against the current patent system and that he volunteered for this case will likely come up in at least one sides appeal.
  • Reply 32 of 48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    he states: "I am not enough of an expert in patent law to come down flatly in favor of any of the reforms that I have listed. " If he's not an expert in patent law, he shouldn't be handling patent cases, especially high profile ones like this one.

    So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).


     


     


     


    So not being expert enough to come down flatly WRT the issues he raised is the same as being incompetent to hear the issues in the Apple lawsuit?


     


    Logic can be your friend.  But only if you stop skipping over the adjectives and realize what  people are really saying.

  • Reply 33 of 48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Is Apple using either of those arguments as the basis for their appeal?



     


     


    Of course not.  Neither of those bases would make any sense at all. If they made sense, apple would have been all over them like stink on shit.


     


    But that doesn't stop the armchair lawyers who never attended any law school classes whatsoever, not even at the worst law school in all of the Americas. Nope.  He proposes novel grounds for appeal, all of which are rejected by Apple.

  • Reply 34 of 48
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post



    Maybe Apple and Google should hire some organic chemists as in the world according to Posner their work is the ONLY work requiring patents.

    The simple fact is justice WAS NOT served due to the inherent bias of the judge, who took this case on seemingly with the ulterior motive of dismissing it out of hand, a foregone conclusion.

    Basically Posner abused his position following his own agenda, which has no place in a fair and just judicial system.

    For more on Posner's take on this, may I suggest the following article as a bit of an eye opener:-

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/why-there-are-too-many-patents-in-america/259725/

    There's a line, Posner crossed it.


    First of all, thanks for the link. After reading it, I have to say that my stance on Judge Posner's decision has changed somewhat. It seems to me that he has admitted that, technically, his decision was wrong and he expects an appeal .... but it's clear to me that what he really wants is an overhaul of the patent process to make it more efficient and fair. His "cure" for patent trolling, for instance, is exactly what I, and others, have been saying for years.


     


    I think he just used his position to try and move the patent system problems to the foreground .... in the way that would get the most attention. I hope it works and I believe that the outcome in any appeal will be positive for Apple.

  • Reply 35 of 48
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,865member


    Chairman Page, Supreme Ruler of The People's Republic of Googlestan, issued the following statement:


     


    Quote:


    We need to steal Apple's iOS technology because we have no ideas of our own. We will leverage the FRAND patents that we assimilated during the invasion acquisition of the Independent Republic of Motorola to extort concessions from Apple and bring them to their knees. Don't be evil. Peace out.



     


    Googlestan Information Minister Schmidt also released a statement:


     


    Quote:


    Android is winning! We know where you live. If you don't like it, you can move.


  • Reply 36 of 48
    vadaniavadania Posts: 425member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Just wait a while longer. I'm certain Google will eventually start something against Apple or Microsoft. It may or may not be viewed as a defensive move by the press, but plenty big enough to clearly prove they've sued a competitor. Then Google can can be as litigious as the rest of the tech world in your view, and everyone else can go back to viewing Apple as being picked on. Did I anticipate the followup question correctly?

    For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.

    Just my humble opinion...
  • Reply 37 of 48
    adamcadamc Posts: 583member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vadania View Post





    For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.

    Just my humble opinion...


    When you brought up this analogy I chance this


     


     


    An Obituary printed in the London Times -  



    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.


     He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: 

    - Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

    - Why the early bird gets the worm; 

    - Life isn't always fair; 

    - and maybe it was my fault. 



    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).


    His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. 



    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. 



    It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. 



    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. 



    Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.



    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. 



    Common Sense was preceded ! in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by ! his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason. 



    He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers: 

    I Know My Rights 

    I Want It Now 

    Someone Else Is To Blame 

    I'm A Victim 



    Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

  • Reply 38 of 48
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    adamc wrote: »
    When you brought up this analogy I chance this


    <p style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0px;font:15px Arial;color:#000000;background-color:#e9e9e9;">An Obituary printed in the London Times -  


    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.</p>

    While that is apropos and rather truthful it is sad that Knowing the Facts died well before this.

    The woman didn't sue because the coffee was hot. She sued because it was scalding and well over a safe drinking temp. McDonald's even admitted to brewing their coffee that hot on purpose so it would stay hot longer and create more smell.

    Common Sense would agree that brewing a liquid at a temp so high it can cause 2nd degree burns whether in your lap or down your throat is worthy of being sued and both publicly and legally called out over it
  • Reply 39 of 48
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    vadania wrote: »
    For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.
    Just my humble opinion...

    Nailed it perfectly!
  • Reply 40 of 48
    Speaking of GatorGuy, I'm wondering why he's avoided the thread about Google thinking patents should become "de facto" standards if they become commonly used.

    I bet even he's trying to find some way to put a spin that favors Google, and since he can't come up with anything he's simply avoiding the issue altogether.
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