Sigh, why do I bother correcting folks? Here goes...
If you'll notice the screen, 6 of those tiles are showing at a glance information. Interesting, not a grid of static icons, but a grid of tiles showing up-to-date information on each app. That's not low information density at all. The iPad home screen is a better example of low information density.
Er... which 6? What information is shown? How is it useful? Are we supposed to vote?
Er... which 6? What information is shown? How is it useful? Are we supposed to vote?
It's small; he's referring to, let's see… the Calendar tile (yellow), the RSS tile (orange, and not in the RP at all), the Stocks tile (green), the Weather tile (blue), the clock (red), and the Mail tile (green).
These are all rectangle tiles, none of the square ones would be able to show anything, I imagine.
In the RP, absolutely none of those applications work at all in any capacity, so their ability to show "at a glance" data is somewhat diminished.
In the RP, absolutely none of those applications work at all in any capacity, so their ability to show "at a glance" data is somewhat diminished.
I've never had issues with them, have you?
Microsoft has done a good thing with making some of those default apps separate from the system. We're expecting to be able to download(or more accurately update) close to final versions soon right from the store.
These are all rectangle tiles, none of the square ones would be able to show anything, I imagine.
Sorry, didn't cover this one before. How apps tiles are done is completely up to the developer. You can have tiles even larger than the double-wides you see in that screenshot, I believe. For the smaller tiles, they are more suited to numerical updates. For instance, number of missed text messages. I don't think the SDK limits you to that, but much else would look terrible.
Edit: I was wrong only tile sizes available are square and wide.
Yeah, they don't load at all. In the first public beta I could get Stocks and Weather to at least open and work partially, but in the RP, absolutely none of them work at all. They stay on the "take up the entire monitor with a single color and a tiny icon" screen and stay there for hours.
Originally Posted by runner7775
Sorry, didn't cover this one before. How apps tiles are done is completely up to the developer. You can have tiles even larger than the double-wides you see in that screenshot, I believe.
Really? Huh. I just want to be able to assign my own images to them…
It's already happening. Microsoft makes a promise that they will maintain Windows 7 until 2020. So, they either know a great many Windows 7 users won't switch, or they are preparing if Windows 8 fails miserably at least they will have Windows 7 to hang onto and to buy them some time to figure what to do with the upcoming Windows 9. Unfortunately, by promising that WIndows 7 will be maintained for that long, it will be less incentive for WIndows 7 users to switch quickly even with the lowly price tag of USD 19.99 for an upgrade.
???
MicroSoft have a history of supporting OSes for many years, XP is still supported. Conversely, Apple have a history on dumping on customers that do not upgrade their OSes on a regular basis. The exception being the Flashback update for Leopard which seems to have been the result of pressure from Leopard owners and social media.
Tweet@rama, RSS reader, Stocks, Weather, Hotmail, I think the middle icon is Pictures(but it may be News), Alarms app.
That pic is of last September's build of the OS, so I'm not sure if the People, and Messages apps were dynamic at that time (I think they were).
There may be more that show live info that I've missed but there are about 9 apps on that screen that show data from their tiles.
Honest questions:
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
In a way, I think Apple is doing something similar (not the same) with Mail in iOS 6. I like that to retrieve new Mail they now have the pull to refresh (or more accurately release to refresh) feature but they shouldn't have removed the button to refresh. It's not on the same level as MS is doing with WIn8 but it's in the same category. I think they should have both and then remove the button in iOS 7.
But at least there is a strong precedence for using pull-to-refresh behavior in other apps, so that transition should be very smooth.
Egads that's ugly. Reminds me of my Xbox 360 screen. While I game alot on the Xbox 360 I still find the GUI ugly, hard to use (probably don't use the menus enough as I spend most of my time playing games on it), and they don't use the full screen real-estate. The font should be bigger too, on some things).
MicroSoft have a history of supporting OSes for many years, XP is still supported. Conversely, Apple have a history on dumping on customers that do not upgrade their OSes on a regular basis. The exception being the Flashback update for Leopard which seems to have been the result of pressure from Leopard owners and social media.
Completely different design philosophies. Apple tends to get their OSs right and price them very attractively, so the majority of people upgrade quickly. In addition, they have not had OSs so bad that they became a laughing stock as millions of people downgraded (*cough* Vista *cough*). Microsoft HAD to support Windows XP to avoid outright rebellion over how bad Vista was.
After a certain period of time, there's little value in upgrading old OSs. People have stable configurations and don't mess with them, so the need is minimal. Furthermore, the desire to support many, many years of obsolete OSs creates its own problems - bloat and high tech support costs.
I sat down with Windows 8 for 2 hours. I was so frustrated I didn't last past 2 hours. Businesses won't upgrade to Windows 8 because it's an IT nightmare and because you can barely multitask in it.
Windows 8 is a disaster and I think when the smoke clears, Microsoft is going to go back to the Windows 7 code and Make Windows 9 a PC product, that is if the PC industry doesn't collapse and Microsoft loses $100 billion.
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
Really hard to comment on how well in actual use, as there are essentially no finalized apps. I really like the ability to see all of my appointments pop up on the calendar and seeing my new emails scroll by, but I can see where a unified notification center is better. In fact, I was surprised at first that there isn't a notification center in addition to what Microsoft has added in Windows 8.
In terms of what happens when there is no live tile for an app, you would have to search for the app in the Metro Start screen and then add it back. All apps when installed are put on the Start screen, so to remove them in the first place you have to go out of your way to lose it.
The purpose of my original was just replying to the original guy who said there very low information density on the start screen when there is actually a lot of information there.
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
I think this is one of the biggest aspects of Metro that hasn't really been explored yet. There are so few people actually using Windows Phone 7 and Metro that no one could possibly have a clear idea yet of how popular it is or how well it works. In the absence of such concrete facts, all indications in the abstract are that it won't be very useful or popular at all.
The only people I know who bought Windows Phones either hated them, or couldn't figure them out and eventually took them back to the store. The only other evidence we have is that Metro "Live Tiles" are basically identical to "widgets" or "gadgets" which have been put into various desktop OS's over the years.
In almost every case, widgets are unpopular with users and rarely used beyond the initial excitement phase.
So what does that tell you about how popular "Metro" will be?
It's clear what will happen here.
Business: Enterprise and business customers don't need Metro and it adds nothing to the user experience in those situations. When you are a worker in a call centre sitting in a sea of Windows PC's, you don't need Facebook updates or any of that social crap. If you're an executive, you already have this stuff on your phone and similarly don't really need it. Business IT will either not install Windows 8 at all or will install it with Metro removed.
Consumer: Consumers will be confused as the main reason they keep sticking to Windows is that it's familiar and thy know how to make it work. A HUGE amount of people won't be able to make Metro even work or understand it. They will get frustrated, and then they will search the net for "give me my start menu back" and find dozens of ways to make that happen. Then they won't see Metro ever again.
After touting initial "sales" numbers that make it seem popular, about half way through the year it will become apparent even to idiots that no one is using it and the few that are have disabled the new features. With the next version of Windows, Microsoft will admit that they put peanut butter and chocolate in the same bar and decide to separate them again. They will announce that they're "refocussing on the Enterprise" and splitting off Metro to become a mobile only OS. The schizophrenic nature of Windows 8 will be pointed to as the reason that Metro didn't work and that Metro will be much more popular in isolation. There will be lots of "this time for sure" comments.
This will also fail and be the very *last* consumer oriented Windows release.
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
Well.... now there's an example of either a plant or a naive fanboi. Vista was another flop like Win ME. Vista didn't catch on because it was a terrible buggy software design... a rush to market when they should've waited to complete what became Windows 7. Windows 8 torches Win 7 ?!? Really ?!? Have you looked at what it truly is? It's just another bloated LAYER on top of an existing system... It's lipstick on a pig...
Businesses and Professionals I've spoke with are already stocking up on Win 7 licenses.
Are you talking to me? Because the idea of you calling me a Microsoft fanboy is hilarious. And yes, Windows 8 torches 7. I've done better than "look at it", I've used them both. 8 is far better. My primary computer's main boot is OS X because Lion and Mountain Lion are better than both (As is iOS), but that's not really germane to the discussion.
And thanks, for proving my point: Microsoft's primary customers won't like it. Which if you'd been paying attention was what I was actually saying. So your anecdotal evidence of enterprise avoiding it like the plague? not really an argument against me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is lunatic stuff even for a troll.
- Vista wasn't bad it just got bad PR? Give me a break. Everyone else in the tech industry says different than you.
- Windows 8 (the desktop part) is exactly the same as Windows 7 so saying it "torches" Windows 7 is a ridiculous thing to say.
Also, your base thesis of people being resistant to change makes no sense when one considers that people are dropping Windows in droves and moving to Macs, yet Macs are far more different than the move from Windows X to Windows Y.
Yes, because anyone saying anything positive about a Microsoft product is clearly a troll. Never mind the fact the point overall was that Microsoft has a good product and I expect it to fail anyway because it won't appeal to...People who prefer Microsoft products. Never mind the fact I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion and there's an iPhone 4 next to it and an iPad just behind me, both mine. I said something positive about Microsoft's products so I'm clearly a shill or a fanboy for Redmond.
I didn't say Vista just got bad PR, I said Microsoft's users didn't like it even though it was a better piece of software. It diverged from what they expected and wanted, so they rejected it. Again, I used both Windows XP and Windows Vista, Vista was vastly more modern and feature-rich.
Windows 8 desktop is not, in fact, exactly the same as Windows 7. Again I have actually used both. Windows 8's desktop has changes, and many of them are improvements. It will also ship without Aero Glass, replacing it with a look which more closely matches Metro (flat colours and simple geometry) - another improvement. And Metro is not a negative, it has a lot of positives. At worst it's a net zero because you can entirely ignore it.
You're missing the point. People don't mind change if they choose to make the change. That would be stupid. Microsoft's core users disliked Vista, and will likely dislike Windows 8, because they prefer consistency. That's why Windows XP and Internet Explorer 6 each vastly outstayed their useful lives. Enterprise customers wanted to keep them around for various reasons, and many consumers who prefer Windows prefer it because of familiarity, so changes to it upset them.
Also, it's not important to the discussion, but people are not dropping the PC in droves and moving to Mac. Many are, sure (Particularly younger users who are less likely to be resistant to change anyway). But the vast majority of "switchers" are going to iPads, often via iPhones and iPod touches which have familiarised them with iOS over the past few years.
Why Mountain Lion Just Became the Ultimate Cord-Cutting OS
Why Mountain Lion Just Became the Ultimate Cord-Cutting OS
Mountain Lion, the latest version of Apple’s OS X desktop operating system, went public Wednesday to the delight of Mac users everywhere. But while the world fawns over updates to Safari and a number of features cribbed from iOS, most people are skipping over perhaps the most significant update of all: AirPlay Mirroring.
Don’t look now, but Apple just created a formidable cord-cutting platform. The new operating system can change the way we watch video in the living room, and might even compel some users to finally cancel their cable and satellite services. Any video content that’s available for the computer can now be just as easily watched on an HDTV. All you need is a Mac running Mountain Lion, and a $100 Apple TV.
The new AirPlay mirroring feature should have the Xfinitys and DirecTVs of the world very concerned.
Edit: I was playing around with Mountain Lion AirPlay earlier today -- from my iMac to the AppleTV/HDTV. You can do a very good preso. demo, tutorial, etc. of, say, Final Cut Pro X. Remember that New Retina MBP has more pixels than an HDTV.
It didn't even occur to me that this combo: Mac/AirPlay/AppleTV -- would enable cord cutting.
I chose those three people on purpose -- but, likely I would be tracking more than three. With the three I mentioned (wife, girlfriend and mom) I am interested in [receiving a notification to immediately follow up] from only one of these, but I do not want to pin that to my start screen for obvious reasons -- lest others see it. The group gives me/she anonymity... The same situation occurs with "notifications" from perspective clients or employers (job interviews).
Yes, because anyone saying anything positive about a Microsoft product is clearly a troll. Never mind the fact the point overall was that Microsoft has a good product and I expect it to fail anyway because it won't appeal to...People who prefer Microsoft products. Never mind the fact I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion and there's an iPhone 4 next to it and an iPad just behind me, both mine. I said something positive about Microsoft's products so I'm clearly a shill or a fanboy for Redmond.
I didn't say Vista just got bad PR, I said Microsoft's users didn't like it even though it was a better piece of software. It diverged from what they expected and wanted, so they rejected it. Again, I used both Windows XP and Windows Vista, Vista was vastly more modern and feature-rich.
...
Bull. You maintained that Vista was a good OS, that it was better than those previous and that it just got a bad rap because it was different from peoples expectations not because it was a poorly made product. You re-iterate that here again.
This goes against my experience, but more importantly, this goes against what almost every serious tech pundit and reporter had to say about Vista.
Your statements were short, and very troll-ish, so excuse me (Steve Martin voice) for thinking that a person who would do that is in fact, a troll.
I appreciate that you are dancing around all over the place now trying to defend your remarks with (admittedly much more intelligent) arguments now but you sounded like a troll and said some stupid (IMO) troll-like things. I reacted accordingly.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775
Sigh, why do I bother correcting folks? Here goes...
If you'll notice the screen, 6 of those tiles are showing at a glance information. Interesting, not a grid of static icons, but a grid of tiles showing up-to-date information on each app. That's not low information density at all. The iPad home screen is a better example of low information density.
Er... which 6? What information is shown? How is it useful? Are we supposed to vote?
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Er... which 6? What information is shown? How is it useful? Are we supposed to vote?
It's small; he's referring to, let's see… the Calendar tile (yellow), the RSS tile (orange, and not in the RP at all), the Stocks tile (green), the Weather tile (blue), the clock (red), and the Mail tile (green).
These are all rectangle tiles, none of the square ones would be able to show anything, I imagine.
In the RP, absolutely none of those applications work at all in any capacity, so their ability to show "at a glance" data is somewhat diminished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Er... which 6? What information is shown? How is it useful? Are we supposed to vote?
Tweet@rama, RSS reader, Stocks, Weather, Hotmail, I think the middle icon is Pictures(but it may be News), Alarms app.
That pic is of last September's build of the OS, so I'm not sure if the People, and Messages apps were dynamic at that time (I think they were).
There may be more that show live info that I've missed but there are about 9 apps on that screen that show data from their tiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
In the RP, absolutely none of those applications work at all in any capacity, so their ability to show "at a glance" data is somewhat diminished.
I've never had issues with them, have you?
Microsoft has done a good thing with making some of those default apps separate from the system. We're expecting to be able to download(or more accurately update) close to final versions soon right from the store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
These are all rectangle tiles, none of the square ones would be able to show anything, I imagine.
Sorry, didn't cover this one before. How apps tiles are done is completely up to the developer. You can have tiles even larger than the double-wides you see in that screenshot, I believe. For the smaller tiles, they are more suited to numerical updates. For instance, number of missed text messages. I don't think the SDK limits you to that, but much else would look terrible.
Edit: I was wrong only tile sizes available are square and wide.
Originally Posted by runner7775
I've never had issues with them, have you?
Yeah, they don't load at all. In the first public beta I could get Stocks and Weather to at least open and work partially, but in the RP, absolutely none of them work at all. They stay on the "take up the entire monitor with a single color and a tiny icon" screen and stay there for hours.
Originally Posted by runner7775
Sorry, didn't cover this one before. How apps tiles are done is completely up to the developer. You can have tiles even larger than the double-wides you see in that screenshot, I believe.
Really? Huh. I just want to be able to assign my own images to them…
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs
It's already happening. Microsoft makes a promise that they will maintain Windows 7 until 2020. So, they either know a great many Windows 7 users won't switch, or they are preparing if Windows 8 fails miserably at least they will have Windows 7 to hang onto and to buy them some time to figure what to do with the upcoming Windows 9. Unfortunately, by promising that WIndows 7 will be maintained for that long, it will be less incentive for WIndows 7 users to switch quickly even with the lowly price tag of USD 19.99 for an upgrade.
???
MicroSoft have a history of supporting OSes for many years, XP is still supported. Conversely, Apple have a history on dumping on customers that do not upgrade their OSes on a regular basis. The exception being the Flashback update for Leopard which seems to have been the result of pressure from Leopard owners and social media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775
Tweet@rama, RSS reader, Stocks, Weather, Hotmail, I think the middle icon is Pictures(but it may be News), Alarms app.
That pic is of last September's build of the OS, so I'm not sure if the People, and Messages apps were dynamic at that time (I think they were).
There may be more that show live info that I've missed but there are about 9 apps on that screen that show data from their tiles.
Honest questions:
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
But at least there is a strong precedence for using pull-to-refresh behavior in other apps, so that transition should be very smooth.
Egads that's ugly. Reminds me of my Xbox 360 screen. While I game alot on the Xbox 360 I still find the GUI ugly, hard to use (probably don't use the menus enough as I spend most of my time playing games on it), and they don't use the full screen real-estate. The font should be bigger too, on some things).
Completely different design philosophies. Apple tends to get their OSs right and price them very attractively, so the majority of people upgrade quickly. In addition, they have not had OSs so bad that they became a laughing stock as millions of people downgraded (*cough* Vista *cough*). Microsoft HAD to support Windows XP to avoid outright rebellion over how bad Vista was.
After a certain period of time, there's little value in upgrading old OSs. People have stable configurations and don't mess with them, so the need is minimal. Furthermore, the desire to support many, many years of obsolete OSs creates its own problems - bloat and high tech support costs.
I sat down with Windows 8 for 2 hours. I was so frustrated I didn't last past 2 hours. Businesses won't upgrade to Windows 8 because it's an IT nightmare and because you can barely multitask in it.
Windows 8 is a disaster and I think when the smoke clears, Microsoft is going to go back to the Windows 7 code and Make Windows 9 a PC product, that is if the PC industry doesn't collapse and Microsoft loses $100 billion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Honest questions:
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
Really hard to comment on how well in actual use, as there are essentially no finalized apps. I really like the ability to see all of my appointments pop up on the calendar and seeing my new emails scroll by, but I can see where a unified notification center is better. In fact, I was surprised at first that there isn't a notification center in addition to what Microsoft has added in Windows 8.
In terms of what happens when there is no live tile for an app, you would have to search for the app in the Metro Start screen and then add it back. All apps when installed are put on the Start screen, so to remove them in the first place you have to go out of your way to lose it.
The purpose of my original was just replying to the original guy who said there very low information density on the start screen when there is actually a lot of information there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Honest questions:
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
I think this is one of the biggest aspects of Metro that hasn't really been explored yet. There are so few people actually using Windows Phone 7 and Metro that no one could possibly have a clear idea yet of how popular it is or how well it works. In the absence of such concrete facts, all indications in the abstract are that it won't be very useful or popular at all.
The only people I know who bought Windows Phones either hated them, or couldn't figure them out and eventually took them back to the store. The only other evidence we have is that Metro "Live Tiles" are basically identical to "widgets" or "gadgets" which have been put into various desktop OS's over the years.
In almost every case, widgets are unpopular with users and rarely used beyond the initial excitement phase.
So what does that tell you about how popular "Metro" will be?
It's clear what will happen here.
Business: Enterprise and business customers don't need Metro and it adds nothing to the user experience in those situations. When you are a worker in a call centre sitting in a sea of Windows PC's, you don't need Facebook updates or any of that social crap. If you're an executive, you already have this stuff on your phone and similarly don't really need it. Business IT will either not install Windows 8 at all or will install it with Metro removed.
Consumer: Consumers will be confused as the main reason they keep sticking to Windows is that it's familiar and thy know how to make it work. A HUGE amount of people won't be able to make Metro even work or understand it. They will get frustrated, and then they will search the net for "give me my start menu back" and find dozens of ways to make that happen. Then they won't see Metro ever again.
After touting initial "sales" numbers that make it seem popular, about half way through the year it will become apparent even to idiots that no one is using it and the few that are have disabled the new features. With the next version of Windows, Microsoft will admit that they put peanut butter and chocolate in the same bar and decide to separate them again. They will announce that they're "refocussing on the Enterprise" and splitting off Metro to become a mobile only OS. The schizophrenic nature of Windows 8 will be pointed to as the reason that Metro didn't work and that Metro will be much more popular in isolation. There will be lots of "this time for sure" comments.
This will also fail and be the very *last* consumer oriented Windows release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Honest questions:
Are fewer, large, in-your-face tiles which may (or may not) show [actual] activity [content]... superior to more, smaller icons which just display a badge indicating activity.
For example: if three different people post pictures (Facebook or whatever that picturee tile represents) -- and you get three posts... one from your wife, one from your girlfriend, and one from your mom... and you are only interested in the post from one of these -- wouldn't the last post, serendipitously, have to be the one you are interested in, for the feature to have any real value?
If you need to note the activity, then manually plow through the series of posts to see if the one you are interested in, exists -- how is that any different than a badged icon and a notification system?
A companion question... what happens to apps not represented by tiles (active or not)? A while back, I remember seeing a Metro demo where: if what you wanted wasn't in the, say, 20 tiles provided -- the user was forced into a file/folder-like list navigation to locate the app or info he was seeking.
This is not to demean Metro as I think there are some ideas that have merit and offer a different approach than other mobile OSes... But the question in my mind is: How well does Metro work in actual use?
If you are only interested in tracking those 3 people, then you use the "People Hub". Here, you can pin 3 of these people directly onto the Start Screen. This way, you can view all 3 updates independently. Example: http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/2350.Pinned_2D00_to_2D00_Start_5F00_73DF5EB3.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compguy99
Well.... now there's an example of either a plant or a naive fanboi. Vista was another flop like Win ME. Vista didn't catch on because it was a terrible buggy software design... a rush to market when they should've waited to complete what became Windows 7. Windows 8 torches Win 7 ?!? Really ?!? Have you looked at what it truly is? It's just another bloated LAYER on top of an existing system... It's lipstick on a pig...
Businesses and Professionals I've spoke with are already stocking up on Win 7 licenses.
Are you talking to me? Because the idea of you calling me a Microsoft fanboy is hilarious. And yes, Windows 8 torches 7. I've done better than "look at it", I've used them both. 8 is far better. My primary computer's main boot is OS X because Lion and Mountain Lion are better than both (As is iOS), but that's not really germane to the discussion.
And thanks, for proving my point: Microsoft's primary customers won't like it. Which if you'd been paying attention was what I was actually saying. So your anecdotal evidence of enterprise avoiding it like the plague? not really an argument against me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is lunatic stuff even for a troll.
- Vista wasn't bad it just got bad PR? Give me a break. Everyone else in the tech industry says different than you.
- Windows 8 (the desktop part) is exactly the same as Windows 7 so saying it "torches" Windows 7 is a ridiculous thing to say.
Also, your base thesis of people being resistant to change makes no sense when one considers that people are dropping Windows in droves and moving to Macs, yet Macs are far more different than the move from Windows X to Windows Y.
Yes, because anyone saying anything positive about a Microsoft product is clearly a troll. Never mind the fact the point overall was that Microsoft has a good product and I expect it to fail anyway because it won't appeal to...People who prefer Microsoft products. Never mind the fact I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion and there's an iPhone 4 next to it and an iPad just behind me, both mine. I said something positive about Microsoft's products so I'm clearly a shill or a fanboy for Redmond.
I didn't say Vista just got bad PR, I said Microsoft's users didn't like it even though it was a better piece of software. It diverged from what they expected and wanted, so they rejected it. Again, I used both Windows XP and Windows Vista, Vista was vastly more modern and feature-rich.
Windows 8 desktop is not, in fact, exactly the same as Windows 7. Again I have actually used both. Windows 8's desktop has changes, and many of them are improvements. It will also ship without Aero Glass, replacing it with a look which more closely matches Metro (flat colours and simple geometry) - another improvement. And Metro is not a negative, it has a lot of positives. At worst it's a net zero because you can entirely ignore it.
You're missing the point. People don't mind change if they choose to make the change. That would be stupid. Microsoft's core users disliked Vista, and will likely dislike Windows 8, because they prefer consistency. That's why Windows XP and Internet Explorer 6 each vastly outstayed their useful lives. Enterprise customers wanted to keep them around for various reasons, and many consumers who prefer Windows prefer it because of familiarity, so changes to it upset them.
Also, it's not important to the discussion, but people are not dropping the PC in droves and moving to Mac. Many are, sure (Particularly younger users who are less likely to be resistant to change anyway). But the vast majority of "switchers" are going to iPads, often via iPhones and iPod touches which have familiarised them with iOS over the past few years.
This is a bit OT...but only a bit...
A friend* tweeted me a link to this site with the message: "Time to update my computer to Mountain Lion and get an AppleTV!"
* Sheena is a singer, songwriter -- basically a creative, but non-techie... though she taught herself iMovie so she could make her own music videos:
http://sheenamelwani.com
Now here's a quote from the article:
Quote:
Why Mountain Lion Just Became the Ultimate Cord-Cutting OS
Why Mountain Lion Just Became the Ultimate Cord-Cutting OS
Mountain Lion, the latest version of Apple’s OS X desktop operating system, went public Wednesday to the delight of Mac users everywhere. But while the world fawns over updates to Safari and a number of features cribbed from iOS, most people are skipping over perhaps the most significant update of all: AirPlay Mirroring.
Don’t look now, but Apple just created a formidable cord-cutting platform. The new operating system can change the way we watch video in the living room, and might even compel some users to finally cancel their cable and satellite services. Any video content that’s available for the computer can now be just as easily watched on an HDTV. All you need is a Mac running Mountain Lion, and a $100 Apple TV.
The new AirPlay mirroring feature should have the Xfinitys and DirecTVs of the world very concerned.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/07/mountain-lion-cord-cutting/
Edit: I was playing around with Mountain Lion AirPlay earlier today -- from my iMac to the AppleTV/HDTV. You can do a very good preso. demo, tutorial, etc. of, say, Final Cut Pro X. Remember that New Retina MBP has more pixels than an HDTV.
It didn't even occur to me that this combo: Mac/AirPlay/AppleTV -- would enable cord cutting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206
If you are only interested in tracking those 3 people, then you use the "People Hub". Here, you can pin 3 of these people directly onto the Start Screen. This way, you can view all 3 updates independently. Example: http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/2350.Pinned_2D00_to_2D00_Start_5F00_73DF5EB3.png
I chose those three people on purpose -- but, likely I would be tracking more than three. With the three I mentioned (wife, girlfriend and mom) I am interested in [receiving a notification to immediately follow up] from only one of these, but I do not want to pin that to my start screen for obvious reasons -- lest others see it. The group gives me/she anonymity... The same situation occurs with "notifications" from perspective clients or employers (job interviews).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb
Yes, because anyone saying anything positive about a Microsoft product is clearly a troll. Never mind the fact the point overall was that Microsoft has a good product and I expect it to fail anyway because it won't appeal to...People who prefer Microsoft products. Never mind the fact I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion and there's an iPhone 4 next to it and an iPad just behind me, both mine. I said something positive about Microsoft's products so I'm clearly a shill or a fanboy for Redmond.
I didn't say Vista just got bad PR, I said Microsoft's users didn't like it even though it was a better piece of software. It diverged from what they expected and wanted, so they rejected it. Again, I used both Windows XP and Windows Vista, Vista was vastly more modern and feature-rich.
...
Bull. You maintained that Vista was a good OS, that it was better than those previous and that it just got a bad rap because it was different from peoples expectations not because it was a poorly made product. You re-iterate that here again.
This goes against my experience, but more importantly, this goes against what almost every serious tech pundit and reporter had to say about Vista.
Your statements were short, and very troll-ish, so excuse me (Steve Martin voice) for thinking that a person who would do that is in fact, a troll.
I appreciate that you are dancing around all over the place now trying to defend your remarks with (admittedly much more intelligent) arguments now but you sounded like a troll and said some stupid (IMO) troll-like things. I reacted accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
BS. It's so identical that no user will be able to find a difference and that's all that really matters.
Wrong, try reading the developer blogs regarding the desktop improvements and changes to things such as 2D rendering.