It sounds like you're referring to corporate IT support. Surely employees aren't using their personal iTunes accounts to download software updates on company computers. Or do you mean like Genius Bar-type support? No one should be telling anyone their passwords period. You'll just to have to have the person type in their password when the prompts come up.
It is a little disconcerting to use the App Store to upgrade one's OS, but how is it a "mess" or colossally bad idea? I upgraded from Lion to Snow Lion (as I call it) with what seemed like no more than 10 clicks and hadn't had any issues at all. I compare it to the old days of DVDs, CDs, and (shudder) floppy disks and an happy to see how simple and easy things have gotten. The "hardest" part was plugging in my portable USB drive and clicking backup now in the Time Machine drop-down before starting. "It just works."
No, I mean in the vastly bigger IT world that exists in between the locked down corporate IT world and the consumer. It's typical for users where I work to give IT their user ID's and passwords for the computer when they drop it off for repairs or installs as the staff can't really do much for them without having that. As I said, almost the first thing the IT people like to do is upgrade the software to cover off the possibility that their issue is a known bug and one (used to) only need the user account password for that. Most users have either a crappy password for that or none at all for their user account so it's not a big secret for them to give it.
The AppleID however is a separate thing for most people and has a credit card attached. It's likely to have a more secure password and most users are very reticent to give it to you as it attaches to their personal business. It also means that if they give IT the AppleID, all of a sudden IT can see the giant list of stuff they purchased (which can be embarrassing), whereas previously the IT person would be just in Software Update and not necessarily cruising through their hardrive looking at the weird music and videos they downloaded. It's not a breach of security, but it is a breach of privacy.
My point is that when a user brings their computer to a third party for repair, they will most likely now have to give them their Apple ID and password. Even if the user has put a secure password on their user account there are easy ways around that. There is no way I know of to get around someone's AppleID, (there shouldn't be), and the user shouldn't have to give this to third parties.
Hopefully "sudo software update" still works without the AppleID but almost no one uses that today and it's not exactly the best tool for the job.
So why was my post deleted? What's wrong about comparing apple's speech synthesiser to one I consider far better? Apple should have licensed ivona. Sad but true.
Software updates in the MAS means users HAVE to open the MAS more often, thereby giving more visibility to developers' products. It's simple, logical, and brilliant; I'm surprised it didn't happen with Lion.
That being said, I rather liked the old software update app. It was small and simple with a nice, obvious icon. Oh well.
The AppleID however is a separate thing for most people and has a credit card attached. It's likely to have a more secure password and most users are very reticent to give it to you as it attaches to their personal business. It also means that if they give IT the AppleID, all of a sudden IT can see the giant list of stuff they purchased (which can be embarrassing), whereas previously the IT person would be just in Software Update and not necessarily cruising through their hardrive looking at the weird music and videos they downloaded. It's not a breach of security, but it is a breach of privacy.
My point is that when a user brings their computer to a third party for repair, they will most likely now have to give them their Apple ID and password. Even if the user has put a secure password on their user account there are easy ways around that. There is no way I know of to get around someone's AppleID, (there shouldn't be), and the user shouldn't have to give this to third parties.
I see the point you're making, but I'm not sure this is that difficult to get around. Let's break this down into Enterprise IT and Personal IT:
Enterprise IT:
Any software that the IT department is going to support for you would be software they approve. It's likely that the IT department has the AppleID and password, and the user doesn't. The user may (if allowed) have a personal AppleID, but that account and software installed on it wouldn't be supported by the IT department. Additionally, there is a setting in Preferences which forces certain updates. Also in terms of "breach of privacy", there's nothing stopping them from looking at everything anyway.
Personal IT:
Before taking the Mac in, they can make sure the user does the software update. Showing them how to do this and walking them through it helps prevent problems in the future. And likewise, the forced updates can be set.
I don't think these software updates are coupled to any AppleID you might be using in the App Store (you can even use multiple different AppleIDs on one machine).
The GUI for system software updates is merely embedded into the App Store GUI now, instead of being a separate thing.
However, the annoyance that is needing to enter an administrator password before the check for available updates happens and after it is done, doesn't seem to be gone. In fact, it seems worse now, as it prompted me in between each of the updates for the voices. Ugh.
In that second screenshot, there are several updates listed. But the top of the page still displays "1 Update Available". And it does not list the sizes of the individual updates.
If the network was set up properly using Mac OS X Server, then all software updates would go to the server for approval by the admin before filtering down to the client machines.
Combing the app store and software updates makes perfect sense since the two have redundant functionality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It's also going to make life in IT support a whole lot harder because one of the main things users never, ever do is update their friggin software and the very *first* thing an IT support person wants to do is to make sure that the software that's having the problem is actually up to date. The way they have it set up now, no third party can do software update without having access to the users AppleID. It's hard enough convincing some users to let you have their User Account password, to convince them to give you their AppleID and password is harder still and shouldn't be necessary just to update system software.
So far, I think the blending of the App Store and Software Update is a colossally bad idea that seems to have no real upside at all. It doesn't seem to me to be likely to make the user upgrade their system software any more often than they do now for instance. Updating your software on OS X seems like a complete mess at this point IMO.
So far, I think the blending of the App Store and Software Update is a colossally bad idea that seems to have no real upside at all. It doesn't seem to me to be likely to make the user upgrade their system software any more often than they do now for instance. Updating your software on OS X seems like a complete mess at this point IMO.
Like all common users update their stuff even under the old system. I've dealt with folks that have never actually updated their software, despite that pop up, since they bought the computer 4 years ago.
Aren't these Nuance voices? Pretty certain I've seen these in use with some GPS systems.
And?? Is the notion that they might have licensed some voices from Nuance that shocking considering they have a partnership with the whole Siri/Dictation thing.
And?? Is the notion that they might have licensed some voices from Nuance that shocking considering they have a partnership with the whole Siri/Dictation thing.
Is there supposed to be an "and"? Or is there supposed to be shock that the voices come from Nuance? I think you're looking for an issue that doesn't exist.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
It sounds like you're referring to corporate IT support. Surely employees aren't using their personal iTunes accounts to download software updates on company computers. Or do you mean like Genius Bar-type support? No one should be telling anyone their passwords period. You'll just to have to have the person type in their password when the prompts come up.
It is a little disconcerting to use the App Store to upgrade one's OS, but how is it a "mess" or colossally bad idea? I upgraded from Lion to Snow Lion (as I call it) with what seemed like no more than 10 clicks and hadn't had any issues at all. I compare it to the old days of DVDs, CDs, and (shudder) floppy disks and an happy to see how simple and easy things have gotten. The "hardest" part was plugging in my portable USB drive and clicking backup now in the Time Machine drop-down before starting. "It just works."
No, I mean in the vastly bigger IT world that exists in between the locked down corporate IT world and the consumer. It's typical for users where I work to give IT their user ID's and passwords for the computer when they drop it off for repairs or installs as the staff can't really do much for them without having that. As I said, almost the first thing the IT people like to do is upgrade the software to cover off the possibility that their issue is a known bug and one (used to) only need the user account password for that. Most users have either a crappy password for that or none at all for their user account so it's not a big secret for them to give it.
The AppleID however is a separate thing for most people and has a credit card attached. It's likely to have a more secure password and most users are very reticent to give it to you as it attaches to their personal business. It also means that if they give IT the AppleID, all of a sudden IT can see the giant list of stuff they purchased (which can be embarrassing), whereas previously the IT person would be just in Software Update and not necessarily cruising through their hardrive looking at the weird music and videos they downloaded. It's not a breach of security, but it is a breach of privacy.
My point is that when a user brings their computer to a third party for repair, they will most likely now have to give them their Apple ID and password. Even if the user has put a secure password on their user account there are easy ways around that. There is no way I know of to get around someone's AppleID, (there shouldn't be), and the user shouldn't have to give this to third parties.
Hopefully "sudo software update" still works without the AppleID but almost no one uses that today and it's not exactly the best tool for the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Jill's my fav.
I like Jill too, and I feel that she likes me a lot.
So why was my post deleted? What's wrong about comparing apple's speech synthesiser to one I consider far better? Apple should have licensed ivona. Sad but true.
I recall playing with these using the Chinese female voice to read English. The accent stuck. So cool.
Software updates in the MAS means users HAVE to open the MAS more often, thereby giving more visibility to developers' products. It's simple, logical, and brilliant; I'm surprised it didn't happen with Lion.
That being said, I rather liked the old software update app. It was small and simple with a nice, obvious icon. Oh well.
I'd still like to get the Stephen Hawking voice on my Mac, even though it's 20 year old technology. Anyone know of a way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The AppleID however is a separate thing for most people and has a credit card attached. It's likely to have a more secure password and most users are very reticent to give it to you as it attaches to their personal business. It also means that if they give IT the AppleID, all of a sudden IT can see the giant list of stuff they purchased (which can be embarrassing), whereas previously the IT person would be just in Software Update and not necessarily cruising through their hardrive looking at the weird music and videos they downloaded. It's not a breach of security, but it is a breach of privacy.
My point is that when a user brings their computer to a third party for repair, they will most likely now have to give them their Apple ID and password. Even if the user has put a secure password on their user account there are easy ways around that. There is no way I know of to get around someone's AppleID, (there shouldn't be), and the user shouldn't have to give this to third parties.
I see the point you're making, but I'm not sure this is that difficult to get around. Let's break this down into Enterprise IT and Personal IT:
Enterprise IT:
Any software that the IT department is going to support for you would be software they approve. It's likely that the IT department has the AppleID and password, and the user doesn't. The user may (if allowed) have a personal AppleID, but that account and software installed on it wouldn't be supported by the IT department. Additionally, there is a setting in Preferences which forces certain updates. Also in terms of "breach of privacy", there's nothing stopping them from looking at everything anyway.
Personal IT:
Before taking the Mac in, they can make sure the user does the software update. Showing them how to do this and walking them through it helps prevent problems in the future. And likewise, the forced updates can be set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starburst
I like Jill too, and I feel that she likes me a lot.
It's nothing personal. It's just business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron
I'd still like to get the Stephen Hawking voice on my Mac, even though it's 20 year old technology. Anyone know of a way?
Buy a Texas Instruments Speak 'n' Spell?
I don't think these software updates are coupled to any AppleID you might be using in the App Store (you can even use multiple different AppleIDs on one machine).
The GUI for system software updates is merely embedded into the App Store GUI now, instead of being a separate thing.
However, the annoyance that is needing to enter an administrator password before the check for available updates happens and after it is done, doesn't seem to be gone. In fact, it seems worse now, as it prompted me in between each of the updates for the voices. Ugh.
In that second screenshot, there are several updates listed. But the top of the page still displays "1 Update Available". And it does not list the sizes of the individual updates.
If the network was set up properly using Mac OS X Server, then all software updates would go to the server for approval by the admin before filtering down to the client machines.
Combing the app store and software updates makes perfect sense since the two have redundant functionality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It's also going to make life in IT support a whole lot harder because one of the main things users never, ever do is update their friggin software and the very *first* thing an IT support person wants to do is to make sure that the software that's having the problem is actually up to date. The way they have it set up now, no third party can do software update without having access to the users AppleID. It's hard enough convincing some users to let you have their User Account password, to convince them to give you their AppleID and password is harder still and shouldn't be necessary just to update system software.
So far, I think the blending of the App Store and Software Update is a colossally bad idea that seems to have no real upside at all. It doesn't seem to me to be likely to make the user upgrade their system software any more often than they do now for instance. Updating your software on OS X seems like a complete mess at this point IMO.
I don't have a Dictation & Speech pref panel on my Mac Mini (Mountain Lion installed).
Anyone know why not?
Originally Posted by BobG
I don't have a Dictation & Speech pref panel on my Mac Mini (Mountain Lion installed). Anyone know why not?
Because you don't have a microphone on your Mac Mini…
I have Jill and Samatha, but can figure out how to get Emily or Serina. Anyone have any ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
So far, I think the blending of the App Store and Software Update is a colossally bad idea that seems to have no real upside at all. It doesn't seem to me to be likely to make the user upgrade their system software any more often than they do now for instance. Updating your software on OS X seems like a complete mess at this point IMO.
Like all common users update their stuff even under the old system. I've dealt with folks that have never actually updated their software, despite that pop up, since they bought the computer 4 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Aren't these Nuance voices? Pretty certain I've seen these in use with some GPS systems.
And?? Is the notion that they might have licensed some voices from Nuance that shocking considering they have a partnership with the whole Siri/Dictation thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And?? Is the notion that they might have licensed some voices from Nuance that shocking considering they have a partnership with the whole Siri/Dictation thing.
Is there supposed to be an "and"? Or is there supposed to be shock that the voices come from Nuance? I think you're looking for an issue that doesn't exist.
Thanks - I don't have a built-in microphone, but have an exterior one/non-Apple.
It's there on my laptop.