The situation with cable and satellite boxes in this country is borderline criminal, IMO - and an obstacle to innovation and free choice for consumers.
I've been waiting for years to see simple, universal, cost-effective solutions in the free market to record, store and view TV shows. Despite the FCC mandating this like what, over 10 years ago, the cable and satellite companies have managed to keep a nearly complete stranglehold on this technology with their silly "purchase a cumbersome, noisy box with crap software to lease and pay an exorbitant monthly service fee just to effectively use our service" business model.
Yes, TIVO and CableCard have made some inroads, but not very successfully. Cable companies make you jump through hoops if you don't want one of their boxes, and it's not even possible anymore to own your own HD DVR for satellite service, as far as I know.
I've grown so disgusted by the situation that I've gone Over The Air-only, complemented by an Apple TV and a BluRay player, and am fairly happy with this nearly no-cost solution - but I'd still really like a DVR-type device just for local channels. What options are out there are too expensive and cumbersome for most people, although the technology obviously exists.
I'd love to see what Apple could do in this space. If the big telco's continue to lock them out, the DOJ should investigate (fat chance).
What would be perfect for me is an OTA-antenna or local cable "in the clear HD" DVR that plugs into the USB port on most modern TV's and stores content via Wi-Fi on synced Mac or PC. Sort of like the Apple TV and iTunes. No spinning hard drives making noise, taking up space, generating monthly fees, and overheating my home theater cabinet that way. It's not rocket science, why can't this be done?
The situation with cable and satellite boxes in this country is borderline criminal, IMO - and an obstacle to innovation and free choice for consumers.
I've been waiting for years to see simple, universal, cost-effective solutions in the free market to record, store and view TV shows. Despite the FCC mandating this like what, over 10 years ago, the cable and satellite companies have managed to keep a nearly complete stranglehold on this technology with their silly "purchase a cumbersome, noisy box with crap software to lease and pay an exorbitant monthly service fee just to effectively use our service" business model.
Yes, TIVO and CableCard have made some inroads, but not very successfully. Cable companies make you jump through hoops if you don't want one of their boxes, and it's not even possible anymore to own your own HD DVR for satellite service, as far as I know.
I've grown so disgusted by the situation that I've gone Over The Air-only, complemented by an Apple TV and a BluRay player, and am fairly happy with this nearly no-cost solution - but I'd still really like a DVR-type device just for local channels. What options are out there are too expensive and cumbersome for most people, although the technology obviously exists.
I'd love to see what Apple could do in this space. If the big telco's continue to lock them out, the DOJ should investigate (fat chance).
What would be perfect for me is an OTA-antenna or local cable "in the clear HD" DVR that plugs into the USB port on most modern TV's and stores content via Wi-Fi on synced Mac or PC. Sort of like the Apple TV and iTunes. No spinning hard drives making noise, taking up space, generating monthly fees, and overheating my home theater cabinet that way. It's not rocket science, why can't this be done?
About the ota dvr, I think its just a question of volume. Major brands just dont want to enter that market. You justmake me taught that on an apple tv set, having an expansion SSD slot for the DVR would be a good idea.
as some one who works for a Cable Co. I can say that I do not know why any one would buy an STB... when new tech comes out you are stuck with what you bought. (most STB's in peoples homes and only decode MPEG-2 video and only the very latest can decode MPEG-4). Same with Cable Modems... millions of End of Life DOCSIS 1 and 2 modems were deployed By Cable Companies in the past 10 years... they will still work but not faster than about 20mbps... if you bought one your are stuck with it... but if you rent one from the Cable Co. you can just get a new D3 modem and get the faster speeds.... (my company has raised the speeds of each tier and kept the price about the same about once a year as long as i've worked for them 10+ years) soon the "normal" speed will require a D3 modem.... and soon this will happen with video... to get more HD channels and more VOD, STB's will need to decode mp4 in a QAM and also in an IP streaming format... Apple could build a Tivo-like DVR that has a cablecard slot like a Tivo does that also has all the functionality of an Apple TV they could also add this tech to a Flat Pannel and make a smart TV, and I do not think that they have to do any thing more than submit the device to Cable Labs for testing (like Tivo did)... but if they are in "Talks" with Cable Companies you better believe that an apple STB will be a rental device from the MSO... like Comcast did with their new Pace X-1 box the STB becomes an internet appliance and has Apps for traffic and weather on it... Apple can do it better and some Cable Co could be willing to let them try to develop the apps (also this could be a 2 way device accessing the cloud (and your itunes library) by a dedicated DOCSIS device inside the STB along with traditional VOD content from the Cable Co.) and when Apple does this and then they have a hardware update next year you just have your cable company sent you a new one with all the new bells and whistles...
on a different note any one who rents a router from the Cable Co. is just Dumb... prices are so cheap that it pays for itself in a few months and when the .N routers become obsolete next year you just go and buy the next gen one....
Just make every cable channel an APP and be done with it already.
Do a quick search on who owns 'insert fav channel'... You might be shocked to know the answer... Often it's one of the major networks ... Or one of the cable giants ... Or some conglomeration of the two.
IMO, for this idea to be successful (first let's just ignore the fact that Apple needs the Media companies to agree to support the ATV) Apple would probably have to build-in some DVR functionality. That would mean adding a larger hard-drive...or one might say "taking a step backwards".
Then probably provide a dev package to allow reagional cable companies to develop thier own app...or just allow Apple to create an App for the regionals to work with. Either way, regional cable companies are notoriously frugle. So I can see how this would be a totally up-hill climb for Apple. I really hope something like this comes to be, but I don't expect anything like this in the near future, meaning the next 2 years (maybe but very unlikely). In my area, the sole cable company has been providing the absolute bare minimum of effort, just waiting for someone else to buy them out. frikn' Charter.
As far as purchasing the ATV over renting the DVR. We rent our DVR for (i think) $12 per month. Which means I could buy 1.5 ATVs per year for the same cost. Since I've owned cable (almost 8 years) we've almost annually had to replace the crappy DVR for a new crappy DVR. At least if our DVR was the ATV, I would only have to replace it when the firmware no longer supports it...or when the feature set improves far beyond our current model.
DVR? You are in the wrong decade. Who on earth wants to record content when it is on demand?
you're assuming OnDemand content is actually provides content for every show currently airing...which it doesn't in my area. Never used OnDemand, and never will.
DVR is just so much more customizable and eaiser to use on our Motorola MOXI. The STB blows a hard drive annually and it's slower than a snail, but at least the software consistantly works. Heck, for my OnDemand when I forget to set something to record...iTunes. Granted i prefered it when you could rent TV but in a pinch the a-la-carte works.
I still do not believe that the Apple TV as we know it is Apple's answer to mainstream television. Given their recent focus on display technology in their iDevices, I expect that they will still want to transfer this experience to TV viewers.
The "Apple TV" hobby is nothing more a Trojan Horse to pave the way for a full blown iTV with Apps, Siri, etc. Apple's plan is to quell the fears of the cable companies by showing them that their Apple TV is not a threat. Then they will organize and make deals for the Apple TV (as seen here) and then later introduce a wow iTV product and port the programming to the new device.
Highly doubt this senario. Big media has pulling content at a whim if they feel threatened at all. Read the headlines recently? This just happened.
Because you will have a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade it every year. If you haven't noticed, every TV manufacturer releases several new models a year. Somehow, it works out. If there is indeed an Apple TV, the hardware will be less important than the content and the ecosystem that goes along with it. And like it or not, a self contained TV is easier for most people to understand, and more tangible, than black box you need to plug in to your TV, change the inputs to access, etc. Also, mobile CPUs/GPUs have reached a point where almost anything is possible. I don't see what they won't be able to do with an A15 chip in a TV, that will require yearly updates. This isn't 2007. The processing tech has matured greatly. The A5X handles the ultra-high resolution, beyond HDTV resolution iPad like butter. An A6 would be able to run a TV interface in its sleep.
I agree that an All-in-one TV is a much better business model for Apple. However, given Apple's hardware refresh cycle and average profit margins on HW (not to mention Apple's price structure), an expensive Apple-branded TV would make very little sense after the early adopters bought up the first runs. I was a slightly early adopter to HDTV (boughy my 720p/1080i Panny Plasma in 2005, just months before 1080p became the standard...sigh) and it hasn't sufferd "screen burn" or "dimming" and keeps chugging away. I plan on replacing it when it dies but it still looks just as good when I first bought it. Apple wouldn't allow such a long replacement cycle and I don't think the general public would buy into it.
As a Brit I really don't understand the US TV system, in the UK we just have 5 free to air channels plus freeview. If apple does do TV they have to be able to offer it worldwide s well.
Apple doesn't sell the ATV in every country that Apple sells to. I work 1/2 my year in China and nobody here has even heard or seen an ATV.
News is coming in now that indeed Apple is producing a full HDTV and it's already in production. Funny thing is, they are doing it almost exactly how I said they would previously on this thread, except instead of cable companies offering the tv's AT&T and Verizon are.
Spectacular. You want to automate laziness. Steve Jobs said once that a television is what you use to turn your mind off. Making it the center of your house seems like the ultimate in giving up.
News is coming in now that indeed Apple is producing a full HDTV and it's already in production. Funny thing is, they are doing it almost exactly how I said they would previously on this thread, except instead of cable companies offering the tv's AT&T and Verizon are.
hell, I suggested this years ago on an AI thread. And that was about when ATT was the only provider of the iPhone. ATT has their own STB and their own UVerse cable subscription. Why not replace that with the ATV? I wish i could find my early posts about this but I'm pretty shure it was right around the release of 2nd Gen ATV.
Apple doesn't sell the ATV in every country that Apple sells to. I work 1/2 my year in China and nobody here has even heard or seen an ATV.
actually i'm in china (i'm not Chinese) and me n my few friends all have apple tvs and iPads in our home and most of us enjoy the airplay. if we wanna watch indian or english movies airplay is godsend for us (if you ever heard of pptv or youku)…
but i understand your point and all of my chinese friends have never heard of apple tv and they are shocked to see when i play movie from iPad to my HDTV.
i would love if apple releases Apple TV worldwide and gives us excess to all the U.S movies and tv shows plus any where else they launch this tv service.
actually i'm in china (i'm not Chinese) and me n my few friends all have apple tvs and iPads in our home and most of us enjoy the airplay. if we wanna watch indian or english movies airplay is godsend for us (if you ever heard of pptv or youku)…
but i understand your point and all of my chinese friends have never heard of apple tv and they are shocked to see when i play movie from iPad to my HDTV.
i would love if apple releases Apple TV worldwide and gives us excess to all the U.S movies and tv shows plus any where else they launch this tv service.
yes, I was referring to Chinese people never have heard of the ATV. It's not even on the Chinese Apple.com. I think Apple's reason for not selling it in China are pretty obvious. Nobody pays for content in China (not a fact, just an observed commonality). I'm honestly shocked that Cable TV and movie theaters even exist still in China. Not to mention that YouTube is forbidden, Netflix doesn't exist there either. Since ATV is really just a consumption device and for Airplay mirroring, if you cut-out the consumption part, you only have the 1st gen ATV without iTunes. I'm not a resident of China and don't have the Chinese edition of iTunes for my computer so i'm not user how they handles the music/movie/tv store there...but if it even exists i'm sure it's pretty limited.
One of my Chinese co-workers bought an iPad when the iPad2 was release. He told me he wanted to return it because the apps were not free. Just an example of how they think there.
yes, I was referring to Chinese people never have heard of the ATV. It's not even on the Chinese Apple.com. I think Apple's reason for not selling it in China are pretty obvious. Nobody pays for content in China (not a fact, just an observed commonality). I'm honestly shocked that Cable TV and movie theaters even exist still in China. Not to mention that YouTube is forbidden, Netflix doesn't exist there either. Since ATV is really just a consumption device and for Airplay mirroring, if you cut-out the consumption part, you only have the 1st gen ATV without iTunes. I'm not a resident of China and don't have the Chinese edition of iTunes for my computer so i'm not user how they handles the music/movie/tv store there...but if it even exists i'm sure it's pretty limited.
One of my Chinese co-workers bought an iPad when the iPad2 was release. He told me he wanted to return it because the apps were not free. Just an example of how they think there.
I totally agree with you. They don't sell content here online at all, they have youku , pptv and many other things which offer free movies and tv shows. There are some movies you can rent on youku even the English ones and they cost only $0.80
I've seen many people pirating apps as not many people like to pay but I have also seen many of my suppliers buying a lot of things from app store.
Comments
Just make every cable channel an APP and be done with it already.
Originally Posted by Waverunnr
Just make every cable channel an APP and be done with it already.
Nowhere near good enough. That's a Microsoft solution.
The Google solution would be to have popup ads in addition to the ads during the show's breaks. And then popup ads on those ads.
The situation with cable and satellite boxes in this country is borderline criminal, IMO - and an obstacle to innovation and free choice for consumers.
I've been waiting for years to see simple, universal, cost-effective solutions in the free market to record, store and view TV shows. Despite the FCC mandating this like what, over 10 years ago, the cable and satellite companies have managed to keep a nearly complete stranglehold on this technology with their silly "purchase a cumbersome, noisy box with crap software to lease and pay an exorbitant monthly service fee just to effectively use our service" business model.
Yes, TIVO and CableCard have made some inroads, but not very successfully. Cable companies make you jump through hoops if you don't want one of their boxes, and it's not even possible anymore to own your own HD DVR for satellite service, as far as I know.
I've grown so disgusted by the situation that I've gone Over The Air-only, complemented by an Apple TV and a BluRay player, and am fairly happy with this nearly no-cost solution - but I'd still really like a DVR-type device just for local channels. What options are out there are too expensive and cumbersome for most people, although the technology obviously exists.
I'd love to see what Apple could do in this space. If the big telco's continue to lock them out, the DOJ should investigate (fat chance).
What would be perfect for me is an OTA-antenna or local cable "in the clear HD" DVR that plugs into the USB port on most modern TV's and stores content via Wi-Fi on synced Mac or PC. Sort of like the Apple TV and iTunes. No spinning hard drives making noise, taking up space, generating monthly fees, and overheating my home theater cabinet that way. It's not rocket science, why can't this be done?
About the ota dvr, I think its just a question of volume. Major brands just dont want to enter that market. You justmake me taught that on an apple tv set, having an expansion SSD slot for the DVR would be a good idea.
as some one who works for a Cable Co. I can say that I do not know why any one would buy an STB... when new tech comes out you are stuck with what you bought. (most STB's in peoples homes and only decode MPEG-2 video and only the very latest can decode MPEG-4). Same with Cable Modems... millions of End of Life DOCSIS 1 and 2 modems were deployed By Cable Companies in the past 10 years... they will still work but not faster than about 20mbps... if you bought one your are stuck with it... but if you rent one from the Cable Co. you can just get a new D3 modem and get the faster speeds.... (my company has raised the speeds of each tier and kept the price about the same about once a year as long as i've worked for them 10+ years) soon the "normal" speed will require a D3 modem.... and soon this will happen with video... to get more HD channels and more VOD, STB's will need to decode mp4 in a QAM and also in an IP streaming format... Apple could build a Tivo-like DVR that has a cablecard slot like a Tivo does that also has all the functionality of an Apple TV they could also add this tech to a Flat Pannel and make a smart TV, and I do not think that they have to do any thing more than submit the device to Cable Labs for testing (like Tivo did)... but if they are in "Talks" with Cable Companies you better believe that an apple STB will be a rental device from the MSO... like Comcast did with their new Pace X-1 box the STB becomes an internet appliance and has Apps for traffic and weather on it... Apple can do it better and some Cable Co could be willing to let them try to develop the apps (also this could be a 2 way device accessing the cloud (and your itunes library) by a dedicated DOCSIS device inside the STB along with traditional VOD content from the Cable Co.) and when Apple does this and then they have a hardware update next year you just have your cable company sent you a new one with all the new bells and whistles...
on a different note any one who rents a router from the Cable Co. is just Dumb... prices are so cheap that it pays for itself in a few months and when the .N routers become obsolete next year
Do a quick search on who owns 'insert fav channel'... You might be shocked to know the answer... Often it's one of the major networks ... Or one of the cable giants ... Or some conglomeration of the two.
I was quite sad when I learned of this...
IMO, for this idea to be successful (first let's just ignore the fact that Apple needs the Media companies to agree to support the ATV) Apple would probably have to build-in some DVR functionality. That would mean adding a larger hard-drive...or one might say "taking a step backwards".
Then probably provide a dev package to allow reagional cable companies to develop thier own app...or just allow Apple to create an App for the regionals to work with. Either way, regional cable companies are notoriously frugle. So I can see how this would be a totally up-hill climb for Apple. I really hope something like this comes to be, but I don't expect anything like this in the near future, meaning the next 2 years (maybe but very unlikely). In my area, the sole cable company has been providing the absolute bare minimum of effort, just waiting for someone else to buy them out. frikn' Charter.
As far as purchasing the ATV over renting the DVR. We rent our DVR for (i think) $12 per month. Which means I could buy 1.5 ATVs per year for the same cost. Since I've owned cable (almost 8 years) we've almost annually had to replace the crappy DVR for a new crappy DVR. At least if our DVR was the ATV, I would only have to replace it when the firmware no longer supports it...or when the feature set improves far beyond our current model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy
So much for the cord cutters.
well, if you already own a cable box and the ATV, you could be cutting one cord at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
DVR? You are in the wrong decade. Who on earth wants to record content when it is on demand?
you're assuming OnDemand content is actually provides content for every show currently airing...which it doesn't in my area. Never used OnDemand, and never will.
DVR is just so much more customizable and eaiser to use on our Motorola MOXI. The STB blows a hard drive annually and it's slower than a snail, but at least the software consistantly works. Heck, for my OnDemand when I forget to set something to record...iTunes. Granted i prefered it when you could rent TV but in a pinch the a-la-carte works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by propaganda
I still do not believe that the Apple TV as we know it is Apple's answer to mainstream television. Given their recent focus on display technology in their iDevices, I expect that they will still want to transfer this experience to TV viewers.
The "Apple TV" hobby is nothing more a Trojan Horse to pave the way for a full blown iTV with Apps, Siri, etc. Apple's plan is to quell the fears of the cable companies by showing them that their Apple TV is not a threat. Then they will organize and make deals for the Apple TV (as seen here) and then later introduce a wow iTV product and port the programming to the new device.
Highly doubt this senario. Big media has pulling content at a whim if they feel threatened at all. Read the headlines recently? This just happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Because you will have a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade it every year. If you haven't noticed, every TV manufacturer releases several new models a year. Somehow, it works out. If there is indeed an Apple TV, the hardware will be less important than the content and the ecosystem that goes along with it. And like it or not, a self contained TV is easier for most people to understand, and more tangible, than black box you need to plug in to your TV, change the inputs to access, etc. Also, mobile CPUs/GPUs have reached a point where almost anything is possible. I don't see what they won't be able to do with an A15 chip in a TV, that will require yearly updates. This isn't 2007. The processing tech has matured greatly. The A5X handles the ultra-high resolution, beyond HDTV resolution iPad like butter. An A6 would be able to run a TV interface in its sleep.
I agree that an All-in-one TV is a much better business model for Apple. However, given Apple's hardware refresh cycle and average profit margins on HW (not to mention Apple's price structure), an expensive Apple-branded TV would make very little sense after the early adopters bought up the first runs. I was a slightly early adopter to HDTV (boughy my 720p/1080i Panny Plasma in 2005, just months before 1080p became the standard...sigh) and it hasn't sufferd "screen burn" or "dimming" and keeps chugging away. I plan on replacing it when it dies but it still looks just as good when I first bought it. Apple wouldn't allow such a long replacement cycle and I don't think the general public would buy into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinneal
As a Brit I really don't understand the US TV system, in the UK we just have 5 free to air channels plus freeview. If apple does do TV they have to be able to offer it worldwide s well.
Apple doesn't sell the ATV in every country that Apple sells to. I work 1/2 my year in China and nobody here has even heard or seen an ATV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Spectacular. You want to automate laziness. Steve Jobs said once that a television is what you use to turn your mind off. Making it the center of your house seems like the ultimate in giving up.
I'm picturing Wall-E.
"Try Blue... It's the new Red"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abobrek
News is coming in now that indeed Apple is producing a full HDTV and it's already in production. Funny thing is, they are doing it almost exactly how I said they would previously on this thread, except instead of cable companies offering the tv's AT&T and Verizon are.
hell, I suggested this years ago on an AI thread. And that was about when ATT was the only provider of the iPhone. ATT has their own STB and their own UVerse cable subscription. Why not replace that with the ATV? I wish i could find my early posts about this but I'm pretty shure it was right around the release of 2nd Gen ATV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Apple doesn't sell the ATV in every country that Apple sells to. I work 1/2 my year in China and nobody here has even heard or seen an ATV.
actually i'm in china (i'm not Chinese) and me n my few friends all have apple tvs and iPads in our home and most of us enjoy the airplay. if we wanna watch indian or english movies airplay is godsend for us (if you ever heard of pptv or youku)…
but i understand your point and all of my chinese friends have never heard of apple tv and they are shocked to see when i play movie from iPad to my HDTV.
i would love if apple releases Apple TV worldwide and gives us excess to all the U.S movies and tv shows plus any where else they launch this tv service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutykamu
actually i'm in china (i'm not Chinese) and me n my few friends all have apple tvs and iPads in our home and most of us enjoy the airplay. if we wanna watch indian or english movies airplay is godsend for us (if you ever heard of pptv or youku)…
but i understand your point and all of my chinese friends have never heard of apple tv and they are shocked to see when i play movie from iPad to my HDTV.
i would love if apple releases Apple TV worldwide and gives us excess to all the U.S movies and tv shows plus any where else they launch this tv service.
yes, I was referring to Chinese people never have heard of the ATV. It's not even on the Chinese Apple.com. I think Apple's reason for not selling it in China are pretty obvious. Nobody pays for content in China (not a fact, just an observed commonality). I'm honestly shocked that Cable TV and movie theaters even exist still in China. Not to mention that YouTube is forbidden, Netflix doesn't exist there either. Since ATV is really just a consumption device and for Airplay mirroring, if you cut-out the consumption part, you only have the 1st gen ATV without iTunes. I'm not a resident of China and don't have the Chinese edition of iTunes for my computer so i'm not user how they handles the music/movie/tv store there...but if it even exists i'm sure it's pretty limited.
One of my Chinese co-workers bought an iPad when the iPad2 was release. He told me he wanted to return it because the apps were not free. Just an example of how they think there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
DVR? You are in the wrong decade. Who on earth wants to record content when it is on demand?
Well you often can't skip through ads with on demand shows.
philip
I totally agree with you. They don't sell content here online at all, they have youku , pptv and many other things which offer free movies and tv shows. There are some movies you can rent on youku even the English ones and they cost only $0.80
I've seen many people pirating apps as not many people like to pay but I have also seen many of my suppliers buying a lot of things from app store.