US (NSA) spy UN security council ?
Welcome to 1984 !
next step is mindcontrol !
<a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html</a>
next step is mindcontrol !
<a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html</a>
Comments
<strong>Welcome to 1984 !
next step is mindcontrol !
<a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Because Mi5, Mossad, and the FSB have never spied on other nations either.... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
Well, my brother did work for the NSA, maybe he knows something...
[ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>
<strong>I can't see why we WOULDN'T spy on any and everybody.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?
Spying isn't necessarily dirty, if you're spying on military enemies or terrorists to learn about attacks or plans. But spying in order to blackmail or intimidate diplomats?
But spying to legitimate a war and still justify it by a term called "democracy" is irony in it's maximum form.
<strong>
Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
These are foreign government agents. You would hope someone is keeping an eye on them.
On a philosophical level, God know about everything you do, did, and will do. Does that mean that if you believe in God you have no freedom?
<strong>I can't see why we WOULDN'T spy on any and everybody.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Right. It's NOT news, and it is unavoidable. To NOT spy would be to keep our heads in the sand.
I don't like the idea of Iraq using spy allegations to somehow weaken the arguments of the rest of the world, though.
[ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: finboy ]</p>
<strong>well spying is one thing.
But spying to legitimate a war and still justify it by a term called "democracy" is irony in it's maximum form.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Spying to legitimize a war makes sense. You would prefer a war based on speculation and hearsay? Spying provides intel so that decisions can be made with as much knowledge of a situation as is possible. Doing it in the name of democracy isn't ironic either. Why would one believe that knowing what other govenments are planning is against democratic ideals? There is nothing ironic about intelligence gathering for the defense of democracy.
<strong>
Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about the UN foreigners, not US citizens. I can't remember taking an oath to all other countrys' rights. BUt, I've slept since then.
Please don't make me remember that if it happened either. Because I'm old enough not to give a damn about it if it DID happen anyway.
Watergate anyone?
<strong>the problem is, as BRussel pointed out, how we are supposed to trust democracy, even the quasi-democratic processes of the security council, when one party has the upper hand and can manipulate the others?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What makes you think we're the only one eavesdropping?
<strong>
What makes you think we're the only one eavesdropping?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course I can't know that. I suspect others spy to. But the UN hq being in New York certainly gives you some advantage, right?
And since the US is pushing for this war, this doesn't benefit your image
* Henry Stimson, Secretary of State; quote is attributed to his reaction upon finding out iin 1929 that the Dept of State had a codebreaking bureau, which he promptly disbanded. For good measure, he advised the governments whose codes had been cracked to change them. The Japanese took his advice, and their military codes were not again broken until well into WWII.
<strong>
These are foreign government agents. You would hope someone is keeping an eye on them.
On a philosophical level, God know about everything you do, did, and will do. Does that mean that if you believe in God you have no freedom?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was answering to a general sentance, however JRC precised that it was only for UN foreign agent.
And for the philosophical level, good try. But there is a great difference between god and a governement. God do not interfere and thus your freedoom are respected. I don't think that gov wish to not interfere ...
In this aera (secret services) this practice is not immoral unless you failed to keep it secret.
<strong>
Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about the UN foreigners, not US citizens. I can't remember taking an oath to all other countrys' rights. BUt, I've slept since then.
Please don't make me remember that if it happened either. Because I'm old enough not to give a damn about it if it DID happen anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You did make a general sentance, however i am glad to hear that you are concerned by the rights of your co-citizens, but you do not care for the rights of other countries even if they are your democratics allies.
<strong>
You did make a general sentance, however i am glad to hear that you are concerned by the rights of your co-citizens, but you do not care for the rights of other countries even if they are your democratics allies.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, allies come and allies go, you know. I won't bore you with a list that ends with the most recent, France.