Special dividends can be a short-term boost for a stock, but they do not tend to have a lasting benefit to shareholders. Whitmore believes Apple is more focused on building a track record of predictable dividend growth.
I like this line best.
Does having cash in ones pocket not provide a lasting benefit? Does the person behind that ridiculous line claim to have investigated what good was done by the typical dividend? Higher stock price is not the only benefit that can be provided to a shareholder!
So if Apple has 100b in the bank, and gets fined 100b, then the fine gets paid. If it distributes 100b to shareholders today, and gets fined tomorrow, guess who gets the money? Shareholders!
1) Buy Microsoft and put its consumer division to rest, integrate iOS in to Exchange/Sharepoint etc replace Windows with OSX
2) Buy Twitter and Facebook
3) Merge with Google (kill Motorola)
4) Buy Amazon and Yahoo
5) Buy Samsung , kill Galaxy line
6) wait and see mode a few years until cash hoard is > stock valuation
1, 3, and 5 would be blocked, 2 would be blocked if it was both (or even not, really). 4 could happen, but they should wait until Amazon completely collapses and get it for pocket change.
1, 3, and 5 would be blocked, 2 would be blocked if it was both (or even not, really). 4 could happen, but they should wait until Amazon completely collapses and get it for pocket change.
Why would a company making 40 cents a profit on every dollar of revenue want to buy any company that is making so little as those other companies are? So stupid!
Anyone suggesting these large mergers should do yourselves a favor and read up on the results of big corporate technology mergers.
Why would a company making 40 cents a profit on every dollar of revenue want to buy any company that is making so little as those other companies are? So stupid!
Do yourselves a favor and read up on the results of big corporate technology mergers.
Bullshit! There is no $600 memory upgrade that is really hard to do yourself.
No need to use that foul language but here is the picture from Apples site. I could do that on my new iMac 21 if I didnt have to unglue the screen, remove the fan and the logic board. Instead, I can pay $200 for 16GB of RAM (which really costs $70 or less) and I cant even order 32GB RAM on the 21 even though it supports it. Not interested in arguing, but wanted to show you what I was talking about. I just find it funny that Apple being greedy is always ok :-)
No need to use that foul language but here is the picture from Apples site. I could do that on my new iMac 21 if I didnt have to unglue the screen, remove the fan and the logic board. Instead, I can pay $200 for 16GB of RAM (which really costs $70 or less) and I cant even order 32GB RAM on the 21 even though it supports it. Not interested in arguing, but wanted to show you what I was talking about. I just find it funny that Apple being greedy is always ok :-)
So where is this $600 you mention?
And $70 or less to do it yourself? Go right ahead but don't pretend that vendors don't charge more than you can buy separately.
No, the 21/5" iMac does not support 32GB because there are now 16GB sticks at this time. There is no conspiracy, Apple isn't out to get you so stop spreading this bullshit!
Does having cash in ones pocket not provide a lasting benefit? Does the person behind that ridiculous line claim to have investigated what good was done by the typical dividend? Higher stock price is not the only benefit that can be provided to a shareholder!
If i get a $200 dividend. I might just waste it on food and/or lap dances and thus a week from now I don't have the $200.
If i get a $200 dividend. I might just waste it on food and/or lap dances and thus a week from now I don't have the $200.
And that's your right (though I would say if you spend it on food, you haven't wasted it, and the lap dancer you give it to will probably not consider it wasted either).
And I might take my dividend and use it to buy christmas presents. Or I might put it in the bank so my bank can lend it out to someone who has a business idea. Or I might buy a different stock with it. The point is, sitting in money market funds, it's doing me NO good. So having it my pocket is sure to do me more good than that.
If I REALLY think that I can not do anything productive with it... then I'll buy more Apple stock with it! Point is, with it in MY hand I can do whatever I want with it, including *decide* to let Apple manage it for me. Unlike now, when that's my only "choice"
I'm long on Apple yet I'm not clamoring for a special dividend. The stock manipulators probably want one.
I am also long AAPL, yet I would like a special dividend. I'd much rather pay 15% tax now on a dividend (a historic low) than a higher (perhaps 40%) rate in the future. (And no, I'm not some 'manipulator', just a guy that's bought, and bought AAPL for years.) And if you use a DRIP, you're buying more of the stock at an undervalued price. Don't get me wrong, AAPL should keep as much money as they think they will ever need on hand. But they already have more cash on hand than the market capitalization of the smallest 466 companies in the S&P500. Perhaps that's a bit much.
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
Better served than what? Than having it in a bank? Because those are the two options - sitting in a bank gathering dust, or returned to shareholders. Investing in those things you mentioned is funded 100 times over just out of current cash flow, not touching the cash pile.
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
Agreed. But at some point (<$121B), it becomes hard to intelligently invest that money. Spend money if it will provide a return, but don't just spend it to spend it.
"With Apple's cash hoard swelling to more than $120 billion dollars..."
Well, quite a bit of this billion is hidden/overseas' money with unpaid taxes tacked on. And, the minute it shows up on US soil, that very minute part of it will go to the Fed's pocket.
"With Apple's cash hoard swelling to more than $120 billion dollars..."
Well, quite a bit of this billion is hidden/overseas' money with unpaid taxes tacked on. And, the minute it shows up on US soil, that very minute it will go to the Fed's pocket.
This is true, except that the only way it's ever going to show up on US soil is if the taxes owed on it are forgiven. The US government knows this, but it's waiting to see who wins this game of chicken. Guess which party can wait longer?
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
It's not like they can re-invest all of that in terms of infrastructure. Some of it might be to provide a buffer, given that the iphone alone makes up the majority of their operating income. I'm saying it might be there in case they need to make any drastic changes. It also keeps some of the doom and gloom talk down. I'm amazed by some of the things that bring it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
This is true, except that the only way it's ever going to show up on US soil is if the taxes owed on it are forgiven. The US government knows this, but it's waiting to see who wins this game of chicken. Guess which party can wait longer?
They can both pretty much wait indefinitely or at least until they've worked out a plan in the longer term for how to better handle corporate profits that either originate overseas or end up there in the form of payments to wholly owned subsidiaries. Just declaring a tax holiday every few years and putting off a long term solution isn't a great idea.
They can both pretty much wait indefinitely or at least until they've worked out a plan in the longer term for how to better handle corporate profits that either originate overseas or end up there in the form of payments to wholly owned subsidiaries. Just declaring a tax holiday every few years and putting off a long term solution isn't a great idea.
I was going to let it go, figuring he didn't get the bigger picture, but if he has a defender I'll clarify: He replied to the ideas for what Apple could buy with the cash as if they were reasonable ideas that might get shot down for one reason or another. The correct response is that they are idiotic ideas for a shareholder-return maximizing company. Might as well suggest that they buy WalMart so they never have to worry about distribution again.
And yes, the USA needs to stop with the ridiculous tax holidays. It only encourages companies to game the system. Come up with a REASONABLE tax regime and put in place real incentives to make sure that taxes are paid, not avoided. This should be the goal of tax policy. Thankfully this year we have a real chance at some real tax law overhaul, and hopefully we'll join the rest of the civilized world and stop taxing profits that were earned overseas. Whether our idiot politicians will actually get around to common sense things like that, I doubt, but one can hope.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Special dividends can be a short-term boost for a stock, but they do not tend to have a lasting benefit to shareholders. Whitmore believes Apple is more focused on building a track record of predictable dividend growth.
I like this line best.
Does having cash in ones pocket not provide a lasting benefit? Does the person behind that ridiculous line claim to have investigated what good was done by the typical dividend? Higher stock price is not the only benefit that can be provided to a shareholder!
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Tell that to Enron.
Uh... exactly!
So if Apple has 100b in the bank, and gets fined 100b, then the fine gets paid. If it distributes 100b to shareholders today, and gets fined tomorrow, guess who gets the money? Shareholders!
Will Apple consider creating its own manufacturing/assembly facilities?
Will a well funded LG/Sharp/etc by Apple component orders eventually be another 'tier 1' competitor like Samsung?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG
Will Apple consider creating its own manufacturing/assembly facilities?
Will a well funded LG/Sharp/etc by Apple component orders eventually be another 'tier 1' competitor like Samsung?
Doing that will wipe $100b off the market cap in no time.
Originally Posted by paxman
…have to pay…
Nope.
Originally Posted by Paul94544
1) Buy Microsoft and put its consumer division to rest, integrate iOS in to Exchange/Sharepoint etc replace Windows with OSX
2) Buy Twitter and Facebook
3) Merge with Google (kill Motorola)
4) Buy Amazon and Yahoo
5) Buy Samsung , kill Galaxy line
6) wait and see mode a few years until cash hoard is > stock valuation
1, 3, and 5 would be blocked, 2 would be blocked if it was both (or even not, really). 4 could happen, but they should wait until Amazon completely collapses and get it for pocket change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Nope.
1, 3, and 5 would be blocked, 2 would be blocked if it was both (or even not, really). 4 could happen, but they should wait until Amazon completely collapses and get it for pocket change.
Why would a company making 40 cents a profit on every dollar of revenue want to buy any company that is making so little as those other companies are? So stupid!
Anyone suggesting these large mergers should do yourselves a favor and read up on the results of big corporate technology mergers.
Originally Posted by cameronj
Why would a company making 40 cents a profit on every dollar of revenue want to buy any company that is making so little as those other companies are? So stupid!
Do yourselves a favor and read up on the results of big corporate technology mergers.
Thanks for pretending it was my idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Bullshit! There is no $600 memory upgrade that is really hard to do yourself.
No need to use that foul language but here is the picture from Apples site. I could do that on my new iMac 21 if I didnt have to unglue the screen, remove the fan and the logic board. Instead, I can pay $200 for 16GB of RAM (which really costs $70 or less) and I cant even order 32GB RAM on the 21 even though it supports it. Not interested in arguing, but wanted to show you what I was talking about. I just find it funny that Apple being greedy is always ok :-)
So where is this $600 you mention?
And $70 or less to do it yourself? Go right ahead but don't pretend that vendors don't charge more than you can buy separately.
No, the 21/5" iMac does not support 32GB because there are now 16GB sticks at this time. There is no conspiracy, Apple isn't out to get you so stop spreading this bullshit!
I'm long on Apple yet I'm not clamoring for a special dividend. The stock manipulators probably want one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
I like this line best.
Does having cash in ones pocket not provide a lasting benefit? Does the person behind that ridiculous line claim to have investigated what good was done by the typical dividend? Higher stock price is not the only benefit that can be provided to a shareholder!
If i get a $200 dividend. I might just waste it on food and/or lap dances and thus a week from now I don't have the $200.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
If i get a $200 dividend. I might just waste it on food and/or lap dances and thus a week from now I don't have the $200.
And that's your right (though I would say if you spend it on food, you haven't wasted it, and the lap dancer you give it to will probably not consider it wasted either).
And I might take my dividend and use it to buy christmas presents. Or I might put it in the bank so my bank can lend it out to someone who has a business idea. Or I might buy a different stock with it. The point is, sitting in money market funds, it's doing me NO good. So having it my pocket is sure to do me more good than that.
If I REALLY think that I can not do anything productive with it... then I'll buy more Apple stock with it! Point is, with it in MY hand I can do whatever I want with it, including *decide* to let Apple manage it for me. Unlike now, when that's my only "choice"
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
I'm long on Apple yet I'm not clamoring for a special dividend. The stock manipulators probably want one.
I am also long AAPL, yet I would like a special dividend. I'd much rather pay 15% tax now on a dividend (a historic low) than a higher (perhaps 40%) rate in the future. (And no, I'm not some 'manipulator', just a guy that's bought, and bought AAPL for years.) And if you use a DRIP, you're buying more of the stock at an undervalued price. Don't get me wrong, AAPL should keep as much money as they think they will ever need on hand. But they already have more cash on hand than the market capitalization of the smallest 466 companies in the S&P500. Perhaps that's a bit much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
Better served than what? Than having it in a bank? Because those are the two options - sitting in a bank gathering dust, or returned to shareholders. Investing in those things you mentioned is funded 100 times over just out of current cash flow, not touching the cash pile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
Agreed. But at some point (<$121B), it becomes hard to intelligently invest that money. Spend money if it will provide a return, but don't just spend it to spend it.
"With Apple's cash hoard swelling to more than $120 billion dollars..."
Well, quite a bit of this billion is hidden/overseas' money with unpaid taxes tacked on. And, the minute it shows up on US soil, that very minute part of it will go to the Fed's pocket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireside
"With Apple's cash hoard swelling to more than $120 billion dollars..."
Well, quite a bit of this billion is hidden/overseas' money with unpaid taxes tacked on. And, the minute it shows up on US soil, that very minute it will go to the Fed's pocket.
This is true, except that the only way it's ever going to show up on US soil is if the taxes owed on it are forgiven. The US government knows this, but it's waiting to see who wins this game of chicken. Guess which party can wait longer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Thanks for pretending it was my idea.
He always does that kind of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Us shareholders are better served with them investing in manufacturing and supplies, to R&D of new products.
It's not like they can re-invest all of that in terms of infrastructure. Some of it might be to provide a buffer, given that the iphone alone makes up the majority of their operating income. I'm saying it might be there in case they need to make any drastic changes. It also keeps some of the doom and gloom talk down. I'm amazed by some of the things that bring it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
This is true, except that the only way it's ever going to show up on US soil is if the taxes owed on it are forgiven. The US government knows this, but it's waiting to see who wins this game of chicken. Guess which party can wait longer?
They can both pretty much wait indefinitely or at least until they've worked out a plan in the longer term for how to better handle corporate profits that either originate overseas or end up there in the form of payments to wholly owned subsidiaries. Just declaring a tax holiday every few years and putting off a long term solution isn't a great idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
He always does that kind of thing.
They can both pretty much wait indefinitely or at least until they've worked out a plan in the longer term for how to better handle corporate profits that either originate overseas or end up there in the form of payments to wholly owned subsidiaries. Just declaring a tax holiday every few years and putting off a long term solution isn't a great idea.
I was going to let it go, figuring he didn't get the bigger picture, but if he has a defender I'll clarify: He replied to the ideas for what Apple could buy with the cash as if they were reasonable ideas that might get shot down for one reason or another. The correct response is that they are idiotic ideas for a shareholder-return maximizing company. Might as well suggest that they buy WalMart so they never have to worry about distribution again.
And yes, the USA needs to stop with the ridiculous tax holidays. It only encourages companies to game the system. Come up with a REASONABLE tax regime and put in place real incentives to make sure that taxes are paid, not avoided. This should be the goal of tax policy. Thankfully this year we have a real chance at some real tax law overhaul, and hopefully we'll join the rest of the civilized world and stop taxing profits that were earned overseas. Whether our idiot politicians will actually get around to common sense things like that, I doubt, but one can hope.