I believe Apple is going to bring an iPhone Mini out this year to take over the low end from the iPhone 4S.
Why? The 4S doesn't have a lightning connector and will become obsolete sooner rather than later. The Mini will cover the space of being the "free" iPhone with a fresh design and the latest connectors for Apple accessories. But it won't be cheap. I would expect the off contract price to still be $399.
I believe Apple is going to bring an iPhone Mini out this year to take over the low end from the iPhone 4S. Why? The 4S doesn't have a lightning connector and will become obsolete sooner rather than later.
So leave the iPhone 4, free, with a Dock Connector, and replace the iPhone 4S, $99.
I would expect the off contract price to still be $399.
If we get a big, cheap plastic phone Apple might be done. Why in the world would they ruin their brand in the pursuit of market share? They survived just fine not getting into a race to the bottom with PC's why start with smartphones?
Plastic is never going to happen.
If Apple does a cheaper iPhone, like the iPad Mini, it will be high quality, and although cheaper still more expensive than the competition.
Funny we've heard it's going to be a cheaper larger phone (because those Asians love their big phones) but now Bloomberg is saying it will be a smaller cheaper phone. Which is it (other than none of the above)?
I'm still trying to figure out how a bigger cheaper phone works out. If you can't afford a data plan what good is a big phone? Unless data plans are cheap in emerging markets?
So leave the iPhone 4, free, with a Dock Connector, and replace the iPhone 4S, $99.
Has to be under $200 or it's a failure¡
If 15% of iPhones sold are still 4/4Ss that equals millions of phones sold every quarter with obsolete docking ports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Funny we've heard it's going to be a cheaper larger phone (because those Asians love their big phones) but now Bloomberg is saying it will be a smaller cheaper phone. Which is it (other than none of the above)?
I'm still trying to figure out how a bigger cheaper phone works out. If you can't afford a data plan what good is a big phone? Unless data plans are cheap in emerging markets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
i hope you're right. I can't see Jony Ive doing cheap but who knows if he has the final say,
I think smaller and cheaper is the only way to go. Maybe the larger iPhone and cheaper iPhone rumors got mixed. It was Digitimes that leaked that rumor after all.
The smaller cheaper rumor also had some traction at CNET and Forbes last week...
The iPhone 3G/3GS at least had the same polycarbonate material used in MacBooks. It was high end plastic not the Fisher Price toy plastic other manufacturers use.
"People" demand an iPhone that is $200 off-contract. Don't ask why they demand it or who they are, but they do.
Steve's dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
It's only "free" in the US and other places that subsidize phones. Most of the world doesn't have subsidized phones, and many third world countries cannot afford an unsubsidized iPhone price.
Some non-contract Android phones sell for under $125, with more memory, GPS, 3G and faster CPU than the original iPhone. That's about 1/4 the price of Apple's least expensive iPhone 4 model, and is why some analysts want Apple to come out with a much lower price model in order to grab more of the world's markets.
--
Another reason why some analysts want a less expensive model, is that some US and non-US carriers have already stopped giving subsidies, and the fear is that all of them might. In that case, they think Apple could be in trouble. Remember, the iPhone didn't really take off in the US until it the 2008 subsidy gave a low $200 upfront cost.
If there's no subsidy, its higher price becomes apparent again. Apple's profit margins could take a huge hit if its prices have to drop to match the competition. If the price stays high, the sales will take a hit just like in the rest of the world.
(Note that I am not personally arguing about either topic. I'm just explaining what their thinking is.)
Again, think about what you guys and the fake rumor mills are suggesting. That 1) Apple wants market share above profits/margins. Apple has NEVER been about trawling in the mud with the other pigs. They want high margins/high quality. 2) That somehow, if they can't make their older iPhone models with old technology sell for $200 off contract that they can somehow design, source, produce a completely different line of high quality phones that can give them great margins AND beat their old phones for $200 or less. THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK. Do you people ever think about what you're saying? Does 1 + 2 make sense to anyone who knows Apple and have a brain???
I don't understand this. We have the iPhone 5 as the current generation, and Apple sells the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 if you want cheaper alternatives. It seems to work well.
Why reinvent the wheel?
I'd expect them to re-pack 4s screen and hardware into 5 case (of course, shorter version of it). You know, aluminium, no rear-side glass, thinner than 4s. But outside of that, bigger screen - lower price makes no sense. Of course they could go for lower quality screen - they have been using some on iPod Touch (compared to same generation iPhones), but somehow I don't see that happening.
Re the question who would want 5" screen. I've seen iP5 adds (thumb-reachable screen) and it is smartly done, as usual. However, of all the people I know having SG3 and Note (and big HTCs as well) - and there are more than a few these days, all sizes and shapes - I'm yet to see one who feels his/her phone is too big. Smart marketing is smart marketing, but it is not necessarily reflection of reality.
Since I'm still on 3Gs (unspoiled with new gear), I don't really know what would be the right size for me. Since I had really long fingers, I'm pretty confident I would not suffer from 4.8"+ screen, but I cannot say it would bring any benefit over iP5 screen size, and portability would have to suffer a bit (but then again I cannot say if "suffering" would be significant at all).
At the end, when I finally replace my 3Gs, it will be based on desired features rather than on size - so size will just tag along, sort of.
Again, think about what you guys and the fake rumor mills are suggesting. That 1) Apple wants market share above profits/margins. Apple has NEVER been about trawling in the mud with the other pigs. They want high margins/high quality. 2) That somehow, if they can't make their older iPhone models with old technology sell for $200 off contract that they can somehow design, source, produce a completely different line of high quality phones that can give them great margins AND beat their old phones for $200 or less. THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK. Do you people ever think about what you're saying? Does 1 + 2 make sense to anyone who knows Apple and have a brain???
That was Steve Jobs Apple. This is Tim's Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some changes in company's business philosophy.
That was Steve Jobs Apple. This is Tim's Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some changes in company's business philosophy.
Tim, hand picked by Steve because he had the same philosophy in this regard, is going to do something totally different now? Tim has said things exactly how Steve said them multiple times… since Steve's passing. His business acumen is the same.
The iPhone 3G/3GS at least had the same polycarbonate material used in MacBooks. It was high end plastic not the Fisher Price toy plastic other manufacturers use.
The Galaxy S3 and S3 Mini both use polycarbonate bodies. However, yes, the under $200 phones likely do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Again, think about what you guys and the fake rumor mills are suggesting. That 1) Apple wants market share above profits/margins. Apple has NEVER been about trawling in the mud with the other pigs. They want high margins/high quality.
That's a good point about Apple liking high margins.
Even so, they were willing to drop their profit margins (not percentage wise, but cash wise) pretty low with the iPad Mini, simply because they saw the 7" market stealing sales from the iPad.
Likewise, they're undoubtedly seeing large screens and low prices stealing sales from the iPhone.
In a 2009 earnings call, Tim Cook talked about third world rollouts and the future of iPhone sales and prices, saying there were " ... things I can’t talk about, we have a plan that we believe continues to make us the leader in the space, continues to keep us years ahead of others and one of the things that we will make sure is that we don’t leave a price umbrella for people."
Cook is saying that he doesn't want to leave an entire market open for others operating underneath Apple's normal price range. He wants to capture buyers early on, and migrate them later to his higher priced devices. Yet he also mentioned quality in that call as well. How will they do this? It'll be interesting to find out. Heck, perhaps they used aluminum recently in order to convince people it was a premium material later on when it will be cheaply used for an inexpensive model.
In a 2009 earnings call, Tim Cook talked about third world rollouts and the future of iPhone sales and prices, saying there were " ... things I can’t talk about, we have a plan that we believe continues to make us the leader in the space, continues to keep us years ahead of others and one of the things that we will make sure is that we don’t leave a price umbrella for people."
Cook is saying that he doesn't want to leave an entire market open for others operating underneath Apple's normal price range. He wants to capture buyers early on, and migrate them later to his higher priced devices. Yet he also mentioned quality in that call as well. How will they do this? It'll be interesting to find out.
I remember that quote, and I've wondered why Apple hasn't acted on a lower end iPhone sooner? It seems that Tim Cook was suggesting there would be a cheaper iPhone at some point.
I don't think it will be the 5 inch screen $200 iPhone analyst want, but I believe Tim has something in mind.
I don't understand this. We have the iPhone 5 as the current generation, and Apple sells the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 if you want cheaper alternatives. It seems to work well.
Why reinvent the wheel?
Because Apple has watched jealously while others have succeeded selling cheap knock-offs of the iPhone, so they finally decided to go downmarket and sell an iPhone knock-off themselves. Without expectations of high quality construction and design, Apple is free to make a knock-off with low-quality materials and an "embarrassingly large" screen. Hell, they'll probably even clone the iPhone's interface and call it CloneWiz. It's sure to find its way into the hearts of Consumer Reports. /s
Tim, hand picked by Steve because he had the same philosophy in this regard, is going to do something totally different now? Tim has said things exactly how Steve said them multiple times… since Steve's passing. His business acumen is the same.
You're right... I remember all those times that Steve apologized to people for f*ck ups in the product line.
As a matter of fact I remember Steve's most heart felt apology, "You're holding it wrong.".
assuming Apple wanted a $200 less expensive version of the iPhone, what would it take to upgrade the $300 iPod touch into a cellphone? antenna, chip, bigger case and more battery. we know Apple charges +$130 for 4G iPads vs. wifi only iPads with the chip and antenna added. add $20 for the bigger battery and case. so totals $450 unsubsidized. vs. $650 for an unsubsidized iPhone 5. it makes sense IF the iPod touch profit margins are as good as iPhone margins.
what Apple will never do is cut its profit margins to chase market share.
Comments
Smaller cheaper phone yes
Larger cheaper phone? Pipe dream.
I believe Apple is going to bring an iPhone Mini out this year to take over the low end from the iPhone 4S.
Why? The 4S doesn't have a lightning connector and will become obsolete sooner rather than later. The Mini will cover the space of being the "free" iPhone with a fresh design and the latest connectors for Apple accessories. But it won't be cheap. I would expect the off contract price to still be $399.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Less expensive with bigger screen? No no no.
My bet? (I'm the guy that was 80% right about the mini, against everyone. why? because I'm awesome)
- Same price/ more expensive 5 inch iPhone, iPhoneX (as i said on other threads)
- iPhone 5S, 100dollars cheaper.
No low-end.
If there ever is a 5 inch iPhone it'll probably have a starting price of $300-400 with subsidy ($800-900 off contract)
The iPhone 5/5S will probably remain in the $199 ($649) slot and under that price I could see a smaller cheaper iPhone.
Originally Posted by blackbook
I believe Apple is going to bring an iPhone Mini out this year to take over the low end from the iPhone 4S. Why? The 4S doesn't have a lightning connector and will become obsolete sooner rather than later.
So leave the iPhone 4, free, with a Dock Connector, and replace the iPhone 4S, $99.
I would expect the off contract price to still be $399.
Has to be under $200 or it's a failure¡
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
If we get a big, cheap plastic phone Apple might be done. Why in the world would they ruin their brand in the pursuit of market share? They survived just fine not getting into a race to the bottom with PC's why start with smartphones?
Plastic is never going to happen.
If Apple does a cheaper iPhone, like the iPad Mini, it will be high quality, and although cheaper still more expensive than the competition.
I'm still trying to figure out how a bigger cheaper phone works out. If you can't afford a data plan what good is a big phone? Unless data plans are cheap in emerging markets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
Plastic is never going to happen.
The first three iPhone models used plastic parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So leave the iPhone 4, free, with a Dock Connector, and replace the iPhone 4S, $99.
Has to be under $200 or it's a failure¡
If 15% of iPhones sold are still 4/4Ss that equals millions of phones sold every quarter with obsolete docking ports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Funny we've heard it's going to be a cheaper larger phone (because those Asians love their big phones) but now Bloomberg is saying it will be a smaller cheaper phone. Which is it (other than none of the above)?
I'm still trying to figure out how a bigger cheaper phone works out. If you can't afford a data plan what good is a big phone? Unless data plans are cheap in emerging markets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
i hope you're right. I can't see Jony Ive doing cheap but who knows if he has the final say,
I think smaller and cheaper is the only way to go. Maybe the larger iPhone and cheaper iPhone rumors got mixed. It was Digitimes that leaked that rumor after all.
The smaller cheaper rumor also had some traction at CNET and Forbes last week...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
The first three iPhone models used plastic parts.
The iPhone 3G/3GS at least had the same polycarbonate material used in MacBooks. It was high end plastic not the Fisher Price toy plastic other manufacturers use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
"People" demand an iPhone that is $200 off-contract. Don't ask why they demand it or who they are, but they do.
Steve's dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
It's only "free" in the US and other places that subsidize phones. Most of the world doesn't have subsidized phones, and many third world countries cannot afford an unsubsidized iPhone price.
Some non-contract Android phones sell for under $125, with more memory, GPS, 3G and faster CPU than the original iPhone. That's about 1/4 the price of Apple's least expensive iPhone 4 model, and is why some analysts want Apple to come out with a much lower price model in order to grab more of the world's markets.
--
Another reason why some analysts want a less expensive model, is that some US and non-US carriers have already stopped giving subsidies, and the fear is that all of them might. In that case, they think Apple could be in trouble. Remember, the iPhone didn't really take off in the US until it the 2008 subsidy gave a low $200 upfront cost.
If there's no subsidy, its higher price becomes apparent again. Apple's profit margins could take a huge hit if its prices have to drop to match the competition. If the price stays high, the sales will take a hit just like in the rest of the world.
(Note that I am not personally arguing about either topic. I'm just explaining what their thinking is.)
Again, think about what you guys and the fake rumor mills are suggesting. That 1) Apple wants market share above profits/margins. Apple has NEVER been about trawling in the mud with the other pigs. They want high margins/high quality. 2) That somehow, if they can't make their older iPhone models with old technology sell for $200 off contract that they can somehow design, source, produce a completely different line of high quality phones that can give them great margins AND beat their old phones for $200 or less. THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK. Do you people ever think about what you're saying? Does 1 + 2 make sense to anyone who knows Apple and have a brain???
I'd expect them to re-pack 4s screen and hardware into 5 case (of course, shorter version of it). You know, aluminium, no rear-side glass, thinner than 4s. But outside of that, bigger screen - lower price makes no sense. Of course they could go for lower quality screen - they have been using some on iPod Touch (compared to same generation iPhones), but somehow I don't see that happening.
Re the question who would want 5" screen. I've seen iP5 adds (thumb-reachable screen) and it is smartly done, as usual. However, of all the people I know having SG3 and Note (and big HTCs as well) - and there are more than a few these days, all sizes and shapes - I'm yet to see one who feels his/her phone is too big. Smart marketing is smart marketing, but it is not necessarily reflection of reality.
Since I'm still on 3Gs (unspoiled with new gear), I don't really know what would be the right size for me. Since I had really long fingers, I'm pretty confident I would not suffer from 4.8"+ screen, but I cannot say it would bring any benefit over iP5 screen size, and portability would have to suffer a bit (but then again I cannot say if "suffering" would be significant at all).
At the end, when I finally replace my 3Gs, it will be based on desired features rather than on size - so size will just tag along, sort of.
That was Steve Jobs Apple. This is Tim's Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some changes in company's business philosophy.
Originally Posted by JCC
THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK.
You'd think so, yeah.
Originally Posted by nikon133
That was Steve Jobs Apple. This is Tim's Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some changes in company's business philosophy.
Tim, hand picked by Steve because he had the same philosophy in this regard, is going to do something totally different now? Tim has said things exactly how Steve said them multiple times… since Steve's passing. His business acumen is the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
The iPhone 3G/3GS at least had the same polycarbonate material used in MacBooks. It was high end plastic not the Fisher Price toy plastic other manufacturers use.
The Galaxy S3 and S3 Mini both use polycarbonate bodies. However, yes, the under $200 phones likely do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Again, think about what you guys and the fake rumor mills are suggesting. That 1) Apple wants market share above profits/margins. Apple has NEVER been about trawling in the mud with the other pigs. They want high margins/high quality.
That's a good point about Apple liking high margins.
Even so, they were willing to drop their profit margins (not percentage wise, but cash wise) pretty low with the iPad Mini, simply because they saw the 7" market stealing sales from the iPad.
Likewise, they're undoubtedly seeing large screens and low prices stealing sales from the iPhone.
In a 2009 earnings call, Tim Cook talked about third world rollouts and the future of iPhone sales and prices, saying there were " ... things I can’t talk about, we have a plan that we believe continues to make us the leader in the space, continues to keep us years ahead of others and one of the things that we will make sure is that we don’t leave a price umbrella for people."
Cook is saying that he doesn't want to leave an entire market open for others operating underneath Apple's normal price range. He wants to capture buyers early on, and migrate them later to his higher priced devices. Yet he also mentioned quality in that call as well. How will they do this? It'll be interesting to find out. Heck, perhaps they used aluminum recently in order to convince people it was a premium material later on when it will be cheaply used for an inexpensive model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
In a 2009 earnings call, Tim Cook talked about third world rollouts and the future of iPhone sales and prices, saying there were " ... things I can’t talk about, we have a plan that we believe continues to make us the leader in the space, continues to keep us years ahead of others and one of the things that we will make sure is that we don’t leave a price umbrella for people."
Cook is saying that he doesn't want to leave an entire market open for others operating underneath Apple's normal price range. He wants to capture buyers early on, and migrate them later to his higher priced devices. Yet he also mentioned quality in that call as well. How will they do this? It'll be interesting to find out.
I remember that quote, and I've wondered why Apple hasn't acted on a lower end iPhone sooner? It seems that Tim Cook was suggesting there would be a cheaper iPhone at some point.
I don't think it will be the 5 inch screen $200 iPhone analyst want, but I believe Tim has something in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
I don't understand this. We have the iPhone 5 as the current generation, and Apple sells the iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 if you want cheaper alternatives. It seems to work well.
Why reinvent the wheel?
Because Apple has watched jealously while others have succeeded selling cheap knock-offs of the iPhone, so they finally decided to go downmarket and sell an iPhone knock-off themselves. Without expectations of high quality construction and design, Apple is free to make a knock-off with low-quality materials and an "embarrassingly large" screen. Hell, they'll probably even clone the iPhone's interface and call it CloneWiz. It's sure to find its way into the hearts of Consumer Reports. /s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Tim, hand picked by Steve because he had the same philosophy in this regard, is going to do something totally different now? Tim has said things exactly how Steve said them multiple times… since Steve's passing. His business acumen is the same.
You're right... I remember all those times that Steve apologized to people for f*ck ups in the product line.
As a matter of fact I remember Steve's most heart felt apology, "You're holding it wrong.".
Originally Posted by island hermit
You're right... I remember all those times that Steve apologized to people for f*ck ups in the product line.
As a matter of fact I remember Steve's most heart felt apology, "You're holding it wrong.".
Did you mean for your sentences to pertain to the same topic? Because they don't at all. Might want to look to that.
assuming Apple wanted a $200 less expensive version of the iPhone, what would it take to upgrade the $300 iPod touch into a cellphone? antenna, chip, bigger case and more battery. we know Apple charges +$130 for 4G iPads vs. wifi only iPads with the chip and antenna added. add $20 for the bigger battery and case. so totals $450 unsubsidized. vs. $650 for an unsubsidized iPhone 5. it makes sense IF the iPod touch profit margins are as good as iPhone margins.
what Apple will never do is cut its profit margins to chase market share.