Products like that would sell. As we can clearly see from their earnings report it is their current line up that is the problem not what I am proposing.
Based on what? What evidence is there that there is week demand for the iMac? That certainly didn't come from Apple. Why would there be week + delays in shipment if the demand was weak?
Revenue means nothing without profits. Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter. Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.
Having flat growth is not the same as being without profit. YoY when you adjust for the week difference Apple's profit growth is around 10%. For a company that makes more profit in a quarter than most companies make in revenue a year near 3x what Amazon has made in profit over its entire life as a company that's really quite remarkable. I have no idea how people expect a company as large as Apple to continue to do 20% growth YoY. That is not sustainable but they can still make billions more in profit per year which more than I can say for many of those other companies people believe in.
Believe me you can make more then three desktop configurations. I think Apple was very foolish to kill off their true mid range machines like the PowerMac G4 or the Cube. They should have kept around similar configurations (with higher modern day specs of course.)
I too was sad to see the Cube go, but I think it was a victim of two things, 1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less, and 2) the economy had a hick up around then. Apple took a 200 million dollar right off on canceling components that quarter. It was trying to clear out inventory. At my University at the end of the quarter I was able to buy a new dual 500 mhz Power Mac for less than $1, 500. Apple even threw in a free 17 inch see through CRT monitor (normally $799) for free.
I think the Mac Mini took the place of the Cube at a more affordable price point. I don't think Apple needs another category desktop if the Mac Pro had an entry level option that allowed component upgrades. There is a lot of people like myself who would not get either an iMac or Mac Pro because the iMac doesn't give me enough control and the Mac Pro is more of a computer than I need and/or an willing to pay for. Moreover, I think the new iMac is a mistake. Ive lost focus on the what the function of a desktop is. Weight and thinness aren't really key considerations. Apple set aside usability to achieve features not needed in a desktop.
We are back above Exxon at least for the moment. Hopefully with the news that iMac production problems are being resolved we should see Wall Street get its head out its ass and value the stock correctly.
We are back above Exxon at least for the moment. Hopefully with the news that iMac production problems are being resolved we should see Wall Street get its head out its ass and value the stock correctly.
It's going to take a lot more than one little positive story about an iMac, IMO. There have been 1,000 negative stories and BS in the past months, so we need a bunch more positive stories coming out.
I'd like to see Apple release a press release next week announcing the China Mobile deal. I'd like to see Apple announcing some brand new product within the next few months that not a single person here knows about. Something totally new and unexpected. I'd like to see Apple being more forceful and countering a lot of the BS that gets written by trashy media outlets. Basically, there are a lot of things that I'd like to see, but we'll see what happens.
I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies.
Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.
Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.
So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding
Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.
I made a post in another forum about Apple's earnings report that would be valid here. For some reasons Tallest Skil kept deleting this comment even though I didn't appear to be breaking any of the forum rules. Hmm, I wonder why?
The results from their earnings report mainly had to do with their Mac line. Why does this mean when all you do is make small evolutionary updates to your desktop line for a really long time your sales will eventually decline? What a revelation. Here is a side by side comparison between the 2004 iMac and current iMac:
This is what Apple has accomplished in a decade. If you can see the revolutionary changes in this design let me know. Evolution is fine but it needs to be balanced out by occasion revolutionary designs.
The only good news is this happened while the stock market as a whole made huge gains. That buffer stopped further panic which might have seen it drop another 30 or 40 points.
Revenue means nothing without profits. Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter. Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.
Yes, except Apple with a decent margin beat the consensus on earnings per share. It was slightly lower than then previous year's quarter, but that was attributed to there being more shares outstanding.
Can someone explain why Apple is sitting on all this cash? I think they need to do something with it - If not an acquisition then increase the dividend or share buy back. But what's the point of hoarding $137B in cash?
1. They already started paying dividends
2. They announced a stock buyback.
3. They announced $10 B in capital expenditures for this year.
As posted elsewhere today...Of late I've come to the sad conclusion that Tim Cook is utterly incompetent without Steve Jobs' vision and paint by number directives. Been holding AAPL since it was $119 and re-upped at $514 so save the troll comments. The ugly truth is Tim Cook seriously screwed up!
1) The uncharacteristic smorgasbord product launch in Sept
2) The Maps fiasco
3) The Forestall food fight
4) Massive product constraints
5) Broken supply chain
No Spotify, no Waze, no_?
6) Openheimer changing AAPL's guidance MO at the worst possible juncture.
It has become apparent to me that with Steve gone and Cook at the helm APPL is a broken company.
This is a joke right?
1 Most of the products needed a refresh. If they didn't refresh them people would be complaining.
2 mobile me, antenna gate, etc. beside google maps suggested an illegal left turn after crossing five lanes of traffic just a couple years ago.
3 Avie T, fadall, Rubinstein, rubin, pagemaster
4 massive for the iMac, record numbers of iOS devices sold
5 based on a unsubstantiated rumor
When analyzing a company, we need to leave market moves out of the equation. Apple has many strengths and many weaknesses. But many misguided pundits are mistaking Apple's strengths for weaknesses.
in my article yesterday, I went through Apple's earnings statement. Mac down 16% due to supply constraints, iPad up 60% with the iPad Mini supply constrained, iPhone up 39% with the iPhone 5 and the iPhone 4 supply constrained, 75 million new iOS devices sold in a quarter, revenue up 27%, profit up 8%, cash up $16 billion for a total of $137 billion.
Apple may have many issues, but the bogey-man of low demand is certainly not one of them. Just think about the above numbers for a minute. Apple sold out their entire inventory of Macs, iPad Minis, iPhone 5(s) and iPhone 4(s). How is that low demand?
Low demand is NOT one of Apple's issues. Neither is high price. Anyone who takes Economics 101 knows that it is axiomatic that price is not too high if demand exceeds supply.
If you eliminate the "demand is too low"/"prices are too high" arguments, most of today's criticisms of Apple fall away. Let's criticize Apple for its weaknesses and stop criticizing Apple for its inherent strengths.
I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies.
Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.
Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.
So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding
Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.
you do realize APPL has 85% of ATT 65% of Verizon 60% of sprint, right?
They wouldn't dare. In fact, it the rumor comes that verizon will do it, Apple just needs to ask for a much bigger deal (all iphones free on contract) otherwise they stop selling iPhones to verizon and they disappear 1 year later. You just can't piss off Apple right now.
1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less,
THANK YOU for providing a reasonable observation to their desktop line. You wouldn't believe how hard it is for me to make the point that they need a wider desktop selection. It is important to point out that the Cube didn't work since Apple had too many competing products at that time. Today, however, it doesn't have any products that compete with it. The mini isn't really the same thing, it's was Apple's first low end machine which was a new category for them. A really low end machine doesn't make sense for the kind of multimedia focus that Apple has. I don't think it makes sense for the Pro to have an entry level option since you would end up with a big box that is mostly empty inside. They should just come out with some kind of an in between machine. I still believe that trying to please everyone with three machines isn't possible. Two of their three desktops place their focus on thinness which I believe is a really big mistake.
The only good news is this happened while the stock market as a whole made huge gains. That buffer stopped further panic which might have seen it drop another 30 or 40 points.
Sadly, it looks like the Naz is still in oversold teritory... which could lead to further problems over the next few weeks.
Only a stupid retarded would say that, and i have the legitimacy to point that out.
BEST QUARTER EVER (revenue). If they can maintain this, what do you want more? People like you make me sick, so much stupidity. It's because of you and people like you that we are like this (world problems.. thanks to analysts wall street and "your" mentality and lack of intelligence, as you proved)
Based on your response I don't think you have the mental capacity to grasp what ails AAPL. Sorry to have touched such a raw nerve.
The results from their earnings report mainly had to do with their Mac line. Why does this mean when all you do is make small evolutionary updates to your desktop line for a really long time your sales will eventually decline? What a revelation. Here is a side by side comparison between the 2004 iMac and current iMac: http://hal9209.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iMac-side-by-side.jpg
This is what Apple has accomplished in a decade. If you can see the revolutionary changes in this design let me know. Evolution is fine but it needs to be balanced out by occasion revolutionary designs.
It's a desktop. How revolutionary can it be. Besides, the Mac had increased sales every qtr before last for a while. Many are switching to laptops. That is the current trend.
If its the design that's a problem, why aren't they going to a competitor. If u haven't notice, Apple was the only vendor growing sales prior to the last qtr.
It's a desktop. How revolutionary can it be. Besides, the Mac had increased sales every qtr before last for a while. Many are switching to laptops. That is the current trend.
If its the design that's a problem, why aren't they going to a competitor. If u haven't notice, Apple was the only vendor growing sales prior to the last qtr.
A desktop can be very revolutionary. Look how the iMac evolved in it's first six years. Laptops are good for some but not all. I don't know why others haven't moved to a competitor but the reason I haven't moved is because I would like to stay on the Mac OS. I am not staying because I like their desktop line up.
Comments
Having flat growth is not the same as being without profit. YoY when you adjust for the week difference Apple's profit growth is around 10%. For a company that makes more profit in a quarter than most companies make in revenue a year near 3x what Amazon has made in profit over its entire life as a company that's really quite remarkable. I have no idea how people expect a company as large as Apple to continue to do 20% growth YoY. That is not sustainable but they can still make billions more in profit per year which more than I can say for many of those other companies people believe in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80
Believe me you can make more then three desktop configurations. I think Apple was very foolish to kill off their true mid range machines like the PowerMac G4 or the Cube. They should have kept around similar configurations (with higher modern day specs of course.)
I too was sad to see the Cube go, but I think it was a victim of two things, 1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less, and 2) the economy had a hick up around then. Apple took a 200 million dollar right off on canceling components that quarter. It was trying to clear out inventory. At my University at the end of the quarter I was able to buy a new dual 500 mhz Power Mac for less than $1, 500. Apple even threw in a free 17 inch see through CRT monitor (normally $799) for free.
I think the Mac Mini took the place of the Cube at a more affordable price point. I don't think Apple needs another category desktop if the Mac Pro had an entry level option that allowed component upgrades. There is a lot of people like myself who would not get either an iMac or Mac Pro because the iMac doesn't give me enough control and the Mac Pro is more of a computer than I need and/or an willing to pay for. Moreover, I think the new iMac is a mistake. Ive lost focus on the what the function of a desktop is. Weight and thinness aren't really key considerations. Apple set aside usability to achieve features not needed in a desktop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice
We are back above Exxon at least for the moment. Hopefully with the news that iMac production problems are being resolved we should see Wall Street get its head out its ass and value the stock correctly.
It's going to take a lot more than one little positive story about an iMac, IMO. There have been 1,000 negative stories and BS in the past months, so we need a bunch more positive stories coming out.
I'd like to see Apple release a press release next week announcing the China Mobile deal. I'd like to see Apple announcing some brand new product within the next few months that not a single person here knows about. Something totally new and unexpected. I'd like to see Apple being more forceful and countering a lot of the BS that gets written by trashy media outlets. Basically, there are a lot of things that I'd like to see, but we'll see what happens.
I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies.
Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.
Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.
So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding
Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pik80
I made a post in another forum about Apple's earnings report that would be valid here. For some reasons Tallest Skil kept deleting this comment even though I didn't appear to be breaking any of the forum rules. Hmm, I wonder why?
The results from their earnings report mainly had to do with their Mac line. Why does this mean when all you do is make small evolutionary updates to your desktop line for a really long time your sales will eventually decline? What a revelation. Here is a side by side comparison between the 2004 iMac and current iMac:
http://hal9209.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iMac-side-by-side.jpg
This is what Apple has accomplished in a decade. If you can see the revolutionary changes in this design let me know. Evolution is fine but it needs to be balanced out by occasion revolutionary designs.
Tallest Skil is AI's most notorious troll!
The only good news is this happened while the stock market as a whole made huge gains. That buffer stopped further panic which might have seen it drop another 30 or 40 points.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
Revenue means nothing without profits. Apple revenue rose but the profit remained flat. Apple also guided flat for next quarter. Apple is making a move from growth to value and all those shares need to move around. This is going to take months.
Yes, except Apple with a decent margin beat the consensus on earnings per share. It was slightly lower than then previous year's quarter, but that was attributed to there being more shares outstanding.
1. They already started paying dividends
2. They announced a stock buyback.
3. They announced $10 B in capital expenditures for this year.
Have you been sleeping for the past 12 months?
This is a joke right?
1 Most of the products needed a refresh. If they didn't refresh them people would be complaining.
2 mobile me, antenna gate, etc. beside google maps suggested an illegal left turn after crossing five lanes of traffic just a couple years ago.
3 Avie T, fadall, Rubinstein, rubin, pagemaster
4 massive for the iMac, record numbers of iOS devices sold
5 based on a unsubstantiated rumor
http://techpinions.com/what-tech-company-is-healthier-than-apple-2/13971
FalKirk Columnist/Mod • 2 hours ago ?
The market is irrational in the short-run. We can only pray that it is rational in the long-run, otherwise, it's never rational at all.
When analyzing a company, we need to leave market moves out of the equation. Apple has many strengths and many weaknesses. But many misguided pundits are mistaking Apple's strengths for weaknesses.
in my article yesterday, I went through Apple's earnings statement. Mac down 16% due to supply constraints, iPad up 60% with the iPad Mini supply constrained, iPhone up 39% with the iPhone 5 and the iPhone 4 supply constrained, 75 million new iOS devices sold in a quarter, revenue up 27%, profit up 8%, cash up $16 billion for a total of $137 billion.
Apple may have many issues, but the bogey-man of low demand is certainly not one of them. Just think about the above numbers for a minute. Apple sold out their entire inventory of Macs, iPad Minis, iPhone 5(s) and iPhone 4(s). How is that low demand?
Low demand is NOT one of Apple's issues. Neither is high price. Anyone who takes Economics 101 knows that it is axiomatic that price is not too high if demand exceeds supply.
If you eliminate the "demand is too low"/"prices are too high" arguments, most of today's criticisms of Apple fall away. Let's criticize Apple for its weaknesses and stop criticizing Apple for its inherent strengths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
I think the sell off is based on iPhone sales figures. I read an article that I think is scaring investors, and it was the ending of subsidies from wireless companies.
Apple so far has been able to get away with higher subsidies for it's iPhone than any other phone out there because they've shown that iPhone is in-demand. As soon as there are any indications that people are moving away from iPhone and are looking into other options, the ability to strong arm a wireless carrier into higher subsidies, or bigger bulk purchases of iPhones for a cheaper price, dwindles.
Verizon Wireless just started carrying iPhones not too long ago, and they've usually enjoyed profits on selling their phones, but with the iPhone they've seen that profit go down significantly. Google is rumored to be releasing their first Motorola phone with the same concept it has with the Nexus phones, and that is bringing the off-contract price of the phone down. If Google were to release a phone for Verizon at $350 retail price, that is $300 LESS than a new generation iPhone at retail price. Those numbers would entice any carrier. Google is rumored to be bringing this device to all carriers too at that low price.
So to sum it up, if Apple can't leverage it's domination on carrier subsidy with strong demand for iPhones, then carriers will do away with subsidies, and will most likely either 1) Stop selling the iPhone, and let Apple sell it themselves or 2) The bulk order of iPhones will be at a much lesser price than Apple is currently demanding
Margins will go down, and Margins is basically what has kept Apple insanely profitable.
you do realize APPL has 85% of ATT 65% of Verizon 60% of sprint, right?
They wouldn't dare. In fact, it the rumor comes that verizon will do it, Apple just needs to ask for a much bigger deal (all iphones free on contract) otherwise they stop selling iPhones to verizon and they disappear 1 year later. You just can't piss off Apple right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
1) Apple had too many products that competed with the Cube (e.g. like the Power Mac G4 you mention) often that did more for less,
THANK YOU for providing a reasonable observation to their desktop line. You wouldn't believe how hard it is for me to make the point that they need a wider desktop selection. It is important to point out that the Cube didn't work since Apple had too many competing products at that time. Today, however, it doesn't have any products that compete with it. The mini isn't really the same thing, it's was Apple's first low end machine which was a new category for them. A really low end machine doesn't make sense for the kind of multimedia focus that Apple has. I don't think it makes sense for the Pro to have an entry level option since you would end up with a big box that is mostly empty inside. They should just come out with some kind of an in between machine. I still believe that trying to please everyone with three machines isn't possible. Two of their three desktops place their focus on thinness which I believe is a really big mistake.
For AAPL, it looks like we are near the extreme fear end of the emotional spectrum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
The only good news is this happened while the stock market as a whole made huge gains. That buffer stopped further panic which might have seen it drop another 30 or 40 points.
Sadly, it looks like the Naz is still in oversold teritory... which could lead to further problems over the next few weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Only a stupid retarded would say that, and i have the legitimacy to point that out.
BEST QUARTER EVER (revenue). If they can maintain this, what do you want more? People like you make me sick, so much stupidity. It's because of you and people like you that we are like this (world problems.. thanks to analysts wall street and "your" mentality and lack of intelligence, as you proved)
Based on your response I don't think you have the mental capacity to grasp what ails AAPL. Sorry to have touched such a raw nerve.
If its the design that's a problem, why aren't they going to a competitor. If u haven't notice, Apple was the only vendor growing sales prior to the last qtr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
It's a desktop. How revolutionary can it be. Besides, the Mac had increased sales every qtr before last for a while. Many are switching to laptops. That is the current trend.
If its the design that's a problem, why aren't they going to a competitor. If u haven't notice, Apple was the only vendor growing sales prior to the last qtr.
A desktop can be very revolutionary. Look how the iMac evolved in it's first six years. Laptops are good for some but not all. I don't know why others haven't moved to a competitor but the reason I haven't moved is because I would like to stay on the Mac OS. I am not staying because I like their desktop line up.