After being hacked, Apple pushes out Java update to patch security hole

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Nonsense. Name one thing that Java or Flash can do that no other tool can do.



    Again, it's mostly lazy developers who keep them going.


     


    You're a simple minded fool if you believe this. Just because 90% of the world does simple work or basic application doesn't mean something like Java in it's entirety is lazy. I'd love for you to walk downstairs and tell the guys on the floor below me (some of the best in the business) they are all lazy keeping nearly a billion dollars worth of global applications running 24/7.


     


    Nevermind go any further than skin deep in the SAP world and you'll be in a sea of Java.

  • Reply 22 of 41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Simple. Just learn to live without the powerful beneficial features those applications offer.


     


    Sort of like suggesting a ban on cars because drunk drivers kill innocent people.



     


    Powerful beneficial features? I haven't used Flash in years and I've had Java turned off ever since Apple suggested it.


    I hardly notice the difference at all. The occasional site I run into that needs Flash? — I've found I don't need it (they're usually luddites anyway.)

  • Reply 23 of 41
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,754member


    BTW where is this update?  Software update shows nothing.

  • Reply 24 of 41
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Simple. Just learn to live without the powerful beneficial features those applications offer.


     


    Sort of like suggesting a ban on cars because drunk drivers kill innocent people.



     


    Powerful beneficial features? I haven't used Flash in years and I've had Java turned off ever since Apple suggested it.


    I hardly notice the difference at all. The occasional site I run into that needs Flash? — I've found I don't need it (they're usually luddites anyway.)



    Thanks for reaffirming my point. If your needs do not include Flash or Java then you can disable them and carry on. For those who need the enhanced functionality they can utilize it and their clientele can either install the necessary plugins or not as they decide. No cause for some sort of enforced abolishment of the platform. To each their own, use it or not, your choice.

  • Reply 25 of 41


    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

    BTW where is this update?  Software update shows nothing.


     


    You have to navigate to Software Update in the Apple Menu for updates to show up in the App Store. It's stupid, but hey.

  • Reply 26 of 41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    The sooner we can kill off Java (and Flash), the better


     


    Steve Jobs' hard stand on keeping Flash off iOS is making the world better, contrary to what Adobe and Google said at the time.

  • Reply 27 of 41


    Actually the "Time Widget" seems to work perfectly well without java or flash.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Try to access the Official US Time site www.time.gov


     


    You need either Flash or Java as that is the only way to access the atomic clocks of the National Institute of Technology.



     


    I do agree though that Flash does some things that HTML won't. But I see no reason for that in a browser, just as I see no reason to use flash to play video. I find the free TOS application (now TDWaterhouse) far better for good financial info than Google. But GoogleFinance with flash is very nice [best on the web, that I've seen, that is.]

  • Reply 28 of 41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post


     


    You're a simple minded fool if you believe this. Just because 90% of the world does simple work or basic application doesn't mean something like Java in it's entirety is lazy. I'd love for you to walk downstairs and tell the guys on the floor below me (some of the best in the business) they are all lazy keeping nearly a billion dollars worth of global applications running 24/7.


     


    Nevermind go any further than skin deep in the SAP world and you'll be in a sea of Java.



     


    While I agree that java does not equate with lazy programming, it seems pretty obvious that it is a mess security wise. In which case, it seems imprudent to stake the success of a "billion dollar" global enterprise on it's continued use in an increasingly hostile environment. I have no idea if it can be fixed, but it's essential nature, at least as it has evolved, seems like it could ensure security difficulties.

  • Reply 29 of 41
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post


    Actually the "Time Widget" seems to work perfectly well without java or flash.



    Really? Try to right click on the widget. In my experience it displays the Flash options, but I have Flash so I'm not sure what you are experiencing however the web page does say that Flash Player is required

  • Reply 30 of 41


    Righto!


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Really? Try to right click on the widget. In my experience it displays the Flash options, but I have Flash so I'm not sure what you are experiencing however the web page does say that Flash Player is required



     


    Sorry, I'm not on my own computer and although clicktoflash is installed, it's not enabled.


    But honestly, Flash or Java aren't necessary for such a thing, even if it is a handy solution.

  • Reply 31 of 41
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member


    So Apple finally lost their patience? Applet removed from all browsers (not just disabled) and Java preferences app gone from /Applications/Utilities. Apple's Java is now a command-line only Java. If you want applets you need to go to oracle.com.

  • Reply 32 of 41
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    mstone wrote: »
    Thanks for reaffirming my point. If your needs do not include Flash or Java then you can disable them and carry on. For those who need the enhanced functionality they can utilize it and their clientele can either install the necessary plugins or not as they decide. No cause for some sort of enforced abolishment of the platform. To each their own, use it or not, your choice.

    Still waiting for those things that can only be done with Flash or Java. So far, the only example was a simple time display tool that could have been written in any language.

    There's absolutely nothing that Java or Flash requires that couldn't be done with a secure platform.
  • Reply 33 of 41
    vorsosvorsos Posts: 302member


    Seems like the unspoken point of contention in this thread is how much functionality can be offered through a web browser. Half of you are arguing about java on the desktop, the other half via web, a third half on servers, and no one is clarifying which. Backend, server-side java is apples and oranges to any client java runtime.


    Bit like the evolution-vs-creationism 'debate,' which is only possible due to one side fatally misunderstanding what the other actually is.


     


    FWIW, flash is a lousy platform for video delivery, but I have no problem with flash being used by animation houses (Harvey Birdman, MLP, etc).

  • Reply 34 of 41
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Still waiting for those things that can only be done with Flash or Java. So far, the only example was a simple time display tool that could have been written in any language.



    There's absolutely nothing that Java or Flash requires that couldn't be done with a secure platform.


    I don't know where you get this notion of any language. I'm talking about a browser. It only understands Javascript or something with a runtime environment like Flash, Java, or Silverlight. Javascript has become the go to environment for those who want Flash-like features without Flash. It works like Flash in some regards but it is far from ideal in many situations because there are so many different implementations of JS in the different browsers.


     


    There are many issues with complex animation in Javascript. One significant difference with Flash vs Javascript is that Flash uses the functionality of MovieClips. The the MovieClip entity can be extremely complex and can be manipulated as a whole which is much more powerful than the Javascript method of controlling the DOM and using Divs as their container. This is the essential reason that Flash is so much better at animation than Javascript. 

  • Reply 35 of 41
    sensisensi Posts: 346member
    @jragosta

    Java is just the most popular programming language as of today but you know better, alright? What is you amazing curriculum and career portfolio when it comes to "proper development"? Please show us all, right now I won't hold my breath...
  • Reply 36 of 41


    Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

    Java is just the most popular programming language as of today…


     


    Because of Android. Because of terrible software written for Android. If Google had any form of curation whatsoever, Java would be steeply on the fall into obscurity.

  • Reply 37 of 41
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

    Java is just the most popular programming language as of today…


     


    Because of Android. Because of terrible software written for Android. If Google had any form of curation whatsoever, Java would be steeply on the fall into obscurity.



    Java programming for servers, or as you mention Android OS which is not really Java, has nothing to do with the Java applets that run in a browser which is the topic at hand since that is how the hackers compromised the laptops. Several commenters, I believe, have confused the two different Java implementations. It is true that Java such as .jsp server side programming is extremely common in large enterprise level applications such as SAP, Oracle, and many other huge companies. These major software businesses are supporting millions of lines of Java code and are not likely to scrap it and start over anytime soon, so yes it is a very popular programming language. As far as Java applets running in a browser is concerned, it is almost entirely extinct already as Flash has by a large degree replaced it.

  • Reply 38 of 41
    kr00kr00 Posts: 99member
    mstone wrote: »
    In your opinion perhaps but I disagree. The reasons to use those tools is because no other tools exist which can provide the same functionality.

    CSS, HTML5 and Javascript sIFR. Credible and efficient replacements for 20 year old Flash, and java. Only lazy devs wish to hold onto flash, as they don't have to think, instead of code. Have a read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Inman_Flash_Replacement
  • Reply 39 of 41
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post



    CSS, HTML5 and Javascript sIFR. Credible and efficient replacements for 20 year old Flash, and java. Only lazy devs wish to hold onto flash, as they don't have to think, instead of code. Have a read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Inman_Flash_Replacement


     


    Perhaps you should read it too.


     


    Quote:


    sIFR requires JavaScript to be enabled and the Flash plugin installed...


  • Reply 40 of 41
    cu10cu10 Posts: 294member


    Java SE 7u15 is the latest release by Oracle, OS X is still with Java SE 6?


     


    *All* software contains vulnerabilities (that includes both OS X and iOS) and it's just a matter of patching them early.


     


    Java technologies are used everywhere (eg, twitter runs Scala which runs on the JVM, Android runs darvik JVM, eBay and Amazon both use Java Servlets) so Oracle just have to be on the ball with updates.   As for the browser plug-in, I only use it rarely, maybe that's why Oracle doesn't pay too much attention to it.

Sign In or Register to comment.