federal agents first obtained the iPhone in the course of a warranted search, then secured another warrant before scanning the phone.
Yeah right! Who believes for a second that they didn't access the phone before applying for and being granted a warrant to do so??
Having worked for an emergency service before I know exactly the kind of culture that exists. They think they're above the law and who polices the police anyway?
Even with a feshly dead battery there is a trickle that can still be pinged from a cell tower, according to Abby in the most recent episode of NCIS.
That was just typical TV show writing, using fake tech to advance the story.
Abby said that even if the phone was turned off and the battery was dead, she could check its status because of a "trickle charge". Trouble is, the radio wouldn't be working if the phone was in the"off" state, plus most phones won't even turn on if the battery is below a certain charge level.
Anyway, then she got back an "error code" that said his battery had been removed. Uh huh. I suppose you could create a custom phone with a battery door switch that sends a signal whenever it's opened, but I don't know of any such device. (Logging when the battery goes back in is easy.)
Upshot: It was fake, just like the idea that it takes x number of minutes to trace a call. Landline and cell calls are logged for billing the moment they're made, and rough cell phone location is always known whenever the phone connects to a tower. So hanging up right away won't prevent logging. The only thing that takes time, is finding those entries in the logs. If the carrier has made the effort to write some nice search and status tools, that could be very fast.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">That was just typical TV show writing, using fake tech to advance the story. </span>
Abby said that even if the phone was turned off and the battery was dead, she could check its status because of a "trickle charge". Trouble is, the radio wouldn't be working if the phone was in the"off" state, plus most phones won't even turn on if the battery is below a certain charge level.
Anyway, then she got back an "error code" that said his battery had been removed. Uh huh. I suppose you could create a custom phone with a battery door switch that sends a signal whenever it's opened, but I don't know of any such device. (Logging when the battery goes back in is easy.)
Upshot: It was fake, just like the idea that it takes x number of minutes to trace a call. Landline and cell calls are logged for billing the moment they're made, and rough cell phone location is always known whenever the phone connects to a tower. So hanging up right away won't prevent logging. <span style="line-height:1.231;">The only thing that takes time, is finding those entries in the logs. If the carrier has made the effort to write some nice search and status tools, that could be very fast.</span>
I have a BB issued to me by my employer. It has frozen up on me and turning it off does not reboot the OS which means it's really going into a stand by mode than powering off, even when it powers down due to a dead battery it boots up rather quickly only when I actually remove the battery does the OS have to completely reboot.
I have a BB issued to me by my employer. It has frozen up on me and turning it off does not reboot the OS which means it's really going into a stand by mode than powering off, even when it powers down due to a dead battery it boots up rather quickly
Right, it's really a deep standby mode waiting for the "on" button. Nothing runs, and the radios are off.
Meaning if the show character's phone was off, it could not be pinged. And certainly neither the phone nor the network could give back an error code saying the battery had been removed! At most, the network would note that it had no recent update to the home location register.
Quote:
only when I actually remove the battery does the OS have to completely reboot.
Right again. If you remove the battery (or if it goes completely dead), the OS will have to completely reboot.
For several years I wrote Blackberry field applications, and I did special code to log radio information whenever there was an app comm error. It was interesting to note how errors increased when the battery got very low, because the phone could not "talk" loud enough to stay connected if on the fringe of a heavily used cell. So the data connection would go in and out, and sometimes time out.
Back on topic, I don't think the police should be able to scan our phones without warrants. Too much personal stuff involved.
We need some super programmers or perhaps the device manufacturers, to create a way to instantly wipe the communication and data logs from portable devices. If it just left all of the programs or aps in place without any location data or messages then it would be saving us from big brother. All of us need this protection whether we know it or not.
With enough data from enough people, statistical information can predict our every move. This is profiling on the highest level. One day your choice of information sources will put you on a watch list just because you clicked on a few news pages with certain types of articles. With todays data tracking technology I'm sure you could imagine how this could be done.
Google already is giving us search results based on the information they have gathered from our previous web surfing. What lengths do you think Homeland Security will go to with huge funding behind them?
I'll forego all of my comments about the legality (or lack thereof ) of any authorities accessing a cell phone.
But is it really possible for them to do this if you have taken all appropriate precautions?
For example, I use a passcode lock. I have set the phone to wipe after 10 failed passcode attempts. I have remote-wipe enabled. I do NOT back up my phone to iCloud, I only back it up to my Mac. My Mac is password-protected and I use Filevault 2 on the entire drive. All of my backup drives are similarly encrypted.
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
I have nothing of significance to hide (except personal-stuff like medical records, calendar, letters, etc.), and I am a firm believer in protecting our country. However in these days of warrantless searches, detaining and keeping people in custody without due process (and many other violations of the Constitution), I am really uncomfortable with the amount of access the gov't has into anyone's life.
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
Hmm maybe. The question is do the men in black helicopters have a good reason to try to access your data?
You have to realise that if your machine is online it could be exploitable when you are using iTunes to backup the data may be accessible to the outside world, or to any device on that network. Your ISP may be compromised, your iPhone may also suffer from the 'emergency dialler hack'…
Also consider that passwords can be stored in RAM, which should be encrypted. RAM remains readable so long as it is powered, however it can be frozen, removed quickly & read on another machine, then combed for passwords etc. RAM may also be accessed & edited via 'DMA firewire hacks' too. Sleep images also store a lot of 'state info' that could be important. (start googling :^))
My guess is the encryption should stop 'them' reading the RAM contents, however I expect 'they' know a lot more tricks than me.
Depending on how paranoid you are you can take extra precautions to limit possible access, in fact the NSA has produced a few guides to secure OS X & iOS.
They don't seem to have ones for 10.7 or 10.8, do you trust their advice?
There was also a company making similar guides called 'A Corsaire White Paper: Securing Mac OS X' but they also are getting old now.
I suspect it would be easier for 'them' to 'rendition' you & get you to give up your passwords anyway. If 'they' can get Stuxnet into an Iranian facility your medical files & bank balance may not be much of a challenge.
If your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear. But make no mistake that by having a cellphone big brother might be watching. If need be your every move can and will be tracked.
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
Yes. There are multiple companies which sell phone forensic kits, from fairly simple and portable, to having the ability to work with even half-broken devices.
Check out an example here at Cellebrite doing an extensive iPhone extraction (skip to 1:20). Pause at the directory listing at the end to see what is available for viewing. Basically it reads the storage while in DFU mode.
They can extract the following types of information, both existing and previously deleted:
Decoded data: Call logs, Voicemails, Contact lists, Locations (WiFi, cell towers and GPS fixes), Images, Video files, Text messages (SMS), MMS, Emails, Notes, Installed applications and their usage, User dictionary, Calendar, Bluetooth devices pairing history, Maps cache
If you are going to do something illegal, turn your mobile phone all the way off. And then don't even take it with you.
Seriously, this isn't rocket science....
But if you are trying to be known as the one who is doing something illegal it might be best to not turn it off and perhaps have the phone go on a trip (perhaps secretly in someone's bag) while you do your deed.
I seem to recall there was a Bourne move where they figured out which guy to hone in on because they were had turned off their phone during a certain time frame. Did I see that or am I making this up?
You are correct about Bourne, I am pretty sure it was the Bourne Ultimatum, and there was a crooked CIA agent who against standard protocol had turned off his phone.
Comments
Yeah right! Who believes for a second that they didn't access the phone before applying for and being granted a warrant to do so??
Having worked for an emergency service before I know exactly the kind of culture that exists. They think they're above the law and who polices the police anyway?
Quote:
Even with a feshly dead battery there is a trickle that can still be pinged from a cell tower, according to Abby in the most recent episode of NCIS.
That was just typical TV show writing, using fake tech to advance the story.
Abby said that even if the phone was turned off and the battery was dead, she could check its status because of a "trickle charge". Trouble is, the radio wouldn't be working if the phone was in the"off" state, plus most phones won't even turn on if the battery is below a certain charge level.
Anyway, then she got back an "error code" that said his battery had been removed. Uh huh. I suppose you could create a custom phone with a battery door switch that sends a signal whenever it's opened, but I don't know of any such device. (Logging when the battery goes back in is easy.)
Upshot: It was fake, just like the idea that it takes x number of minutes to trace a call. Landline and cell calls are logged for billing the moment they're made, and rough cell phone location is always known whenever the phone connects to a tower. So hanging up right away won't prevent logging. The only thing that takes time, is finding those entries in the logs. If the carrier has made the effort to write some nice search and status tools, that could be very fast.
I have a BB issued to me by my employer. It has frozen up on me and turning it off does not reboot the OS which means it's really going into a stand by mode than powering off, even when it powers down due to a dead battery it boots up rather quickly only when I actually remove the battery does the OS have to completely reboot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
I have a BB issued to me by my employer. It has frozen up on me and turning it off does not reboot the OS which means it's really going into a stand by mode than powering off, even when it powers down due to a dead battery it boots up rather quickly
Right, it's really a deep standby mode waiting for the "on" button. Nothing runs, and the radios are off.
Meaning if the show character's phone was off, it could not be pinged. And certainly neither the phone nor the network could give back an error code saying the battery had been removed! At most, the network would note that it had no recent update to the home location register.
Quote:
only when I actually remove the battery does the OS have to completely reboot.
Right again. If you remove the battery (or if it goes completely dead), the OS will have to completely reboot.
For several years I wrote Blackberry field applications, and I did special code to log radio information whenever there was an app comm error. It was interesting to note how errors increased when the battery got very low, because the phone could not "talk" loud enough to stay connected if on the fringe of a heavily used cell. So the data connection would go in and out, and sometimes time out.
Back on topic, I don't think the police should be able to scan our phones without warrants. Too much personal stuff involved.
We need some super programmers or perhaps the device manufacturers, to create a way to instantly wipe the communication and data logs from portable devices. If it just left all of the programs or aps in place without any location data or messages then it would be saving us from big brother. All of us need this protection whether we know it or not.
With enough data from enough people, statistical information can predict our every move. This is profiling on the highest level. One day your choice of information sources will put you on a watch list just because you clicked on a few news pages with certain types of articles. With todays data tracking technology I'm sure you could imagine how this could be done.
Google already is giving us search results based on the information they have gathered from our previous web surfing. What lengths do you think Homeland Security will go to with huge funding behind them?
I'll forego all of my comments about the legality (or lack thereof ) of any authorities accessing a cell phone.
But is it really possible for them to do this if you have taken all appropriate precautions?
For example, I use a passcode lock. I have set the phone to wipe after 10 failed passcode attempts. I have remote-wipe enabled. I do NOT back up my phone to iCloud, I only back it up to my Mac. My Mac is password-protected and I use Filevault 2 on the entire drive. All of my backup drives are similarly encrypted.
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
I have nothing of significance to hide (except personal-stuff like medical records, calendar, letters, etc.), and I am a firm believer in protecting our country. However in these days of warrantless searches, detaining and keeping people in custody without due process (and many other violations of the Constitution), I am really uncomfortable with the amount of access the gov't has into anyone's life.
Quote:
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
Hmm maybe. The question is do the men in black helicopters have a good reason to try to access your data?
You have to realise that if your machine is online it could be exploitable when you are using iTunes to backup the data may be accessible to the outside world, or to any device on that network. Your ISP may be compromised, your iPhone may also suffer from the 'emergency dialler hack'…
Also consider that passwords can be stored in RAM, which should be encrypted. RAM remains readable so long as it is powered, however it can be frozen, removed quickly & read on another machine, then combed for passwords etc. RAM may also be accessed & edited via 'DMA firewire hacks' too. Sleep images also store a lot of 'state info' that could be important. (start googling :^))
My guess is the encryption should stop 'them' reading the RAM contents, however I expect 'they' know a lot more tricks than me.
Depending on how paranoid you are you can take extra precautions to limit possible access, in fact the NSA has produced a few guides to secure OS X & iOS.
https://www.nsa.gov/ia/mitigation_guidance/security_configuration_guides/operating_systems.shtml#AppleMac
They don't seem to have ones for 10.7 or 10.8, do you trust their advice?
There was also a company making similar guides called 'A Corsaire White Paper: Securing Mac OS X' but they also are getting old now.
I suspect it would be easier for 'them' to 'rendition' you & get you to give up your passwords anyway. If 'they' can get Stuxnet into an Iranian facility your medical files & bank balance may not be much of a challenge.
If your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear. But make no mistake that by having a cellphone big brother might be watching. If need be your every move can and will be tracked.
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4
If your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
Up bhp bup, that's not a valid argument.
Sure it is. Are you worried about all the other ways law enforcement can spy on you?
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Sure it is. Are you worried about all the other ways law enforcement can spy on you?
Not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David291
Given all of those precautions, is it STILL possible for them to hack into and gain access to my iPhone's contents?
Yes. There are multiple companies which sell phone forensic kits, from fairly simple and portable, to having the ability to work with even half-broken devices.
Check out an example here at Cellebrite doing an extensive iPhone extraction (skip to 1:20). Pause at the directory listing at the end to see what is available for viewing. Basically it reads the storage while in DFU mode.
They can extract the following types of information, both existing and previously deleted:
Decoded data: Call logs, Voicemails, Contact lists, Locations (WiFi, cell towers and GPS fixes), Images, Video files, Text messages (SMS), MMS, Emails, Notes, Installed applications and their usage, User dictionary, Calendar, Bluetooth devices pairing history, Maps cache
Application data: Skype, Whatsapp, Viber, Fring, MotionX, AIM, TigerText, Facebook Messenger, Twitterrific, Textfree, Google+, Facebook, Foursquare, Garmin, TomTom, Waze, TextNow, Dropbox, Yahoo Messenger, Ping Chat, Twitter, Touch (new ping chat), Find My iPhone, LinkedIn, iCQ, Kik Messenger, Google Maps, Kakaotalk, QIP, Evernote, Vkontakte, Mail.ru
Internet browser data: Safari, Opera Mini - bookmarks, history and cookies
They note that if they do not have your password, they cannot decode emails and keychain passwords.