Rumor: Apple's next-gen iPhone to boast 12-megapixel camera with improved sensitivity, HDR

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 53
    i need bigger screen please...
  • Reply 22 of 53
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by Avery Ng View Post

    i need bigger screen please...


     


    "Need"? Why?

  • Reply 23 of 53
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,458member
    avery ng wrote: »
    i need bigger screen please...

    Epic first post - Insight yet seen on these forums.
  • Reply 24 of 53
    wigbywigby Posts: 690member
    T
    Should be a Sony sensor for the price of the iPhone they are producing the best out there at the moment always a little improvement for the highest cost for the iPhone
    Exmor RSModel Shipment date
    (planned) Sample price
    (incl. tax)
    Type 1/3.06
    13.13 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'IMX135' January, 2013 1,500 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IU135F3-Z' March, 2013 8,000 JPY
    Type 1/4
    8.08 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'IMX134' March, 2013 1,000 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IU134F9-Z' May, 2013 5,000 JPY
    Type 1/4
    8.08 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'ISX014' October, 2012 1,200 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IUS014F-Z' November, 2012 6,000 JPY
    *3: Based on the method for specifying effective pixels in image sensors

    Why the heck can't the iPhone be the best of the best it is a luxury priced item with some very outdated and cheap components other manufactures can beat apple out with new models much quicker.
    Many thanks to the Android peanut gallery. Just go back to counting all your RAM and megapixels and screen inches. iPhone users are still taking the most and best looking photos hands down.
  • Reply 25 of 53
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Should be a Sony sensor for the price of the iPhone they are producing the best out there at the moment always a little improvement for the highest cost for the iPhone
    Exmor RSModel Shipment date
    (planned) Sample price
    (incl. tax)
    Type 1/3.06
    13.13 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'IMX135' January, 2013 1,500 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IU135F3-Z' March, 2013 8,000 JPY
    Type 1/4
    8.08 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'IMX134' March, 2013 1,000 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IU134F9-Z' May, 2013 5,000 JPY
    Type 1/4
    8.08 effective megapixels(*3) Stacked CMOS image sensor
    'ISX014' October, 2012 1,200 JPY
    Imaging module
    'IUS014F-Z' November, 2012 6,000 JPY
    *3: Based on the method for specifying effective pixels in image sensors

    Why the heck can't the iPhone be the best of the best it is a luxury priced item with some very outdated and cheap components other manufactures can beat apple out with new models much quicker.


    To be clear, you post components that either didn't hit the market until after the iPhone 5 arrived or have yet to be on the market but then complain that Apple is using "very outdated and cheap components" in a device that went on sale in September 2012. You do realize that even if, say, all these components arrived in August 2012 and by some miracle were in quantities that could serve Apple's need for the iPhone sales volume that there would be no way they would be in a new device. :no:
  • Reply 26 of 53
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,162member


    An upgrade to an 12MP camera won't make one bit of a difference on the iPhone. Even if the iPhone had an 18 MP camera, you wouldn't see the difference. Fandroids claiming their camera is better because their phones have more megapixels are complete fools and don't know a thing about photography. 8 MP is completely fine. All Apple should do is upgrade the sensor. 

  • Reply 27 of 53
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,162member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enzos View Post


    More than 3 or 4 MP on a phone camera is redundant. An SLR or good compact shooting at 3 MP produces a far better picture that a phone camera at 8 or 12 or whatever million pixels. They could reduce the count to 5 million bigger pixels to improve low light noise. Indoor phone shots under artificial lights are still quite horrible (digital noise being the butt ugliest artefact of the modern picture taking). 



     


    It's the same on DLSR cameras as well. More megapixels doesn't equal better quality pictures. The megapixel battle on smartphones is silly. Smartphones don't have good enough sensors. 


  • Reply 28 of 53


    I had a Nikon Coolpix S560 at 10 megapixels. Worst pictures ever. I don't know if it was the optics, the tiny, crappy sensor, the filter, the in-camera barrel distortion correction or overly aggressive JPEG compression, but the 10MP resolution might as well have been 3MP. The 8MP iPhone 5 camera easily trounced the Nikon's image quality for pixel peeping. Yes, I know that if I wanted quality I should get a DSLR. My point is that there's still "specs competition" in consumer camera space, and I hope the push for 12MP really amounts to something other than a mere spec bump for the sake of winning a specs race.

  • Reply 29 of 53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post



    Epic first post - Insight yet seen on these forums.


     


    The "bigger screen please" crowd reminds me of hardcore gamers: a vocal minority that inflates the importance of their opinion.

  • Reply 30 of 53
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    wigby wrote: »
    T
    Many thanks to the Android peanut gallery. Just go back to counting all your RAM and megapixels and screen inches. iPhone users are still taking the most and best looking photos hands down.

    solipsismx wrote: »
    To be clear, you post components that either didn't hit the market until after the iPhone 5 arrived or have yet to be on the market but then complain that Apple is using "very outdated and cheap components" in a device that went on sale in September 2012. You do realize that even if, say, all these components arrived in August 2012 and by some miracle were in quantities that could serve Apple's need for the iPhone sales volume that there would be no way they would be in a new device. :no:


    How did you understand that person?


    Apparently, they do not realize that Apple does use Sony CMOS sensors. In fact, the next iPhone will almost certainly use the Sony parts they referenced.


    The Sony "Exmor RS" stacked CMOS image sensor wasn't planned to ship until October 2012. (1)


    1. http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201208/12-107E/
  • Reply 31 of 53
    Why 12 and not 8?

    Please, let's not try to use samsung strategy. Make a 440 ppi screen (lie about the fact that it is oversaturated pentile screen (330ppi), so crap, much inferior to iphone 5 ) to fool costumers, a 13mp camera that is just as crappy as they get (to fool costumers), etc.

    Any evidence to support your claims about the camera? According to most previews, it's top-notch.
  • Reply 32 of 53
    Yes, please an end to increasing the number of pixels, image quality took a backward step going from iPhone 4s to iPhone 5.

    8Mp is enough unless the sensor is enlarged. I'd like to see better DR and quality per pixel before a bigger pixel count.
  • Reply 33 of 53
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    I had a Nikon Coolpix S560 at 10 megapixels. Worst pictures ever. I don't know if it was the optics, the tiny, crappy sensor, the filter, the in-camera barrel distortion correction or overly aggressive JPEG compression, but the 10MP resolution might as well have been 3MP. The 8MP iPhone 5 camera easily trounced the Nikon's image quality for pixel peeping. Yes, I know that if I wanted quality I should get a DSLR. My point is that there's still "specs competition" in consumer camera space, and I hope the push for 12MP really amounts to something other than a mere spec bump for the sake of winning a specs race.
    boltsfan17 wrote: »
    An upgrade to an 12MP camera won't make one bit of a difference on the iPhone. Even if the iPhone had an 18 MP camera, you wouldn't see the difference. Fandroids claiming their camera is better because their phones have more megapixels are complete fools and don't know a thing about photography. 8 MP is completely fine. All Apple should do is upgrade the sensor. 

    For both of you, keep in mind Apple's history. They have frequently had cameras with fewer MP than the competition but which still took better pictures. Apple understands the difference between adding specs for specs' sake and adding features that actually improve performance.
    Avery Ng: I need a bigger screen
    "Need"? Why?

    To make up for size deficiencies elsewhere, of course.
  • Reply 34 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    This isn't true at all. 12MP would be great if they could improve quality at the same time. I'm of the opinion that people that dismiss an increase in pixel count have very modest photography needs and probably never print anything of size. More pixels is effectively more data which leads to the ability to process that data in different ways.

    Admittedly there are other things that should be considered to improve iPhones picture taking ability. One would be a solid optical zoom. A zoom is in many cases as effective, maybe far more effective, than adding pixels. Low light performance is another interesting topic where in the past you had to go to larger sensors to solve the low light problem. Technology advances here too and we could see improvements to low light performance even in cell phone sized sensors.

    Apple does need to upgrade the camera, there is a long ways to go to even match a decent point and shoot. The improvements need to be balanced though.
    boltsfan17 wrote: »
    An upgrade to an 12MP camera won't make one bit of a difference on the iPhone. Even if the iPhone had an 18 MP camera, you wouldn't see the difference. Fandroids claiming their camera is better because their phones have more megapixels are complete fools and don't know a thing about photography. 8 MP is completely fine. All Apple should do is upgrade the sensor. 
  • Reply 35 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    This isn't a static world you know. If Apple could deliver a 12Mpixel camera that delivered better pictures than what can be had on the "4" series iPhones would you complain? The fact is research is constant with these sensors, they improve every year and there is a lot of promising research going on. It is not out of the realm of possibilities to see a viable 12 MP sensors this year. There are a number of research paths being followed to realize these improvements, everything from quantum dots to improved pixel geometry.

    Now I'd be the first tos away no way if overall picture quality takes a dive. However there is enough evidence to suggest that that might not happen. In other words don't dismiss the possibility based on what was possible in the past. Instead keep an open mind and reflect upon what is delivered in the new iPhone.

    As to mega pixels. I will state flat out that 8MP is not enough, not even close. 12 MP is where digital SLRs started to come into their own and effectively replaced film. At the very least 12MP should be a target value for Apple to hit when the technology can support it. Megapixels isn't everything of course and it would be great to see the rest of the camera improve.
    boltsfan17 wrote: »
    It's the same on DLSR cameras as well. More megapixels doesn't equal better quality pictures. The megapixel battle on smartphones is silly. Smartphones don't have good enough sensors. 
  • Reply 36 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    I have to disagree. It is the quality of the pixels that makes the difference.
    enzos wrote: »
    More than 3 or 4 MP on a phone camera is redundant.
    4MP images are crap no mater where they come from! At best they only look good on old monitors and god forbid if you try to crop an image and then have it printed.
    An SLR or good compact shooting at 3 MP produces a far better picture that a phone camera at 8 or 12 or whatever million pixels.
    There are a rather large number of factors that come into play that results in often more pleasing pictures from an SLR. The ability to control aperture, exposure time and depth of field come into the equation. More importantly the operator of most SLRs has a vested interest in making good pictures. In the end though more pixels on a DSLR does result in better pictures and data that one can become more creative with.
    They could reduce the count to 5 million bigger pixels to improve low light noise. Indoor phone shots under artificial lights are still quite horrible (digital noise being the butt ugliest artefact of the modern picture taking). 

    Or they could implement new technology. The one theme I seem to be hearing in this thread is that for whatever reason there is no chance of an improvement on a per pixel basis in a new cell phone sensor. That amazes me because cell pone sensors have come a very very long way in the last few years and research wasn't discontinued last year. I'm not saying Apple will introduce a dramatically improved 12 MP sensor into iPhone 5S. Instead what I'm saying is that all things are possible and that further dismissing whatever camera Apple puts into the 5S before actually seeing the camera is just plain silly.

    As a side note 12MP is pretty close to 35mm film in capability to acquire information. To be honest 35mm film wasn't all that great of a material to work with if you wanted good results. Digital photography has effectively pushed the required camera size down a notch. In other words 35 mm sized DSLRs are effectively replacing medium format for the vast majority of professional uses, and cell phones have effectively replaced point and shoot cameras. You can whine all you want about pixels and quality but the cameras in the iPhones are damn good considering what one had to deal with 20 or 30 years ago. Considering this is in a device that is a camera, a cell phone, a GPS device, and a general purpose computer that is impressive. Don't give up on the idea that the camera in the iPhone can be improved.
  • Reply 37 of 53
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    1) I can't say I care too much about this but I do think that a 12Mpx camera would likely mean we'll be getting a Flash bump over the current offerings. I actually hope it's not a doubling but just 50% more with the NAND chips they are using being halved in capacity with a new node, then a 3rd NAND chip added then built into a package with a special NAND controller and memory that is like a hybrid-SSD PoP so we can get over 2x the performance of the current NAND. It's really a performance bottleneck like HDD have been in PCs for years now.



    2) I had completely forgotten about the purple fringes when photographing light. It's almost like that was blown out of proportion.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post



    I'm still finding the purple tinge a real problem, it was not blown out of proportion.

    As for 12mp, Apple is playing catch up still, I hope they exceed expectations with screen size and features.


     


    I still see purple fringing in some shots. But I'd like to hear how it is a "real problem". And what do you mean by catching up and exceeding expectations?


     


    Cameras are not something you can pick a single spec and say, "catch up". The fact remains that iPhone cameras are used far more than cameras on any other phones. A larger screen does not meet or exceed reasonable expectations. It just feeds those who don't understand what useful features are.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enzos View Post


    More than 3 or 4 MP on a phone camera is redundant. 



     


    That's patently false.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enzos View Post


    An SLR or good compact shooting at 3 MP produces a far better picture that a phone camera at 8 or 12 or whatever million pixels. 



     


    First, you cannot compare SLR to phone cameras. Second, what does a "far better picture" mean?


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enzos View Post


    They could reduce the count to 5 million bigger pixels to improve low light noise.



     


     


    That's a generalization which is only sometimes true. The fact is that you cannot compare two sensors based on pixel count alone. If you really know what you are talking about, then it's best not to provide misleading "soundbites". If you don't, you should consider not reproducing headlines.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    As to mega pixels. I will state flat out that 8MP is not enough, not even close. 12 MP is where digital SLRs started to come into their own and effectively replaced film. At the very least 12MP should be a target value for Apple to hit when the technology can support it. 


     


    Why is 8MP enough? What is 12 MP the minimum bar? Assuming that 12 MP is indeed the tipping point for digital winning over film, why is it the same for phone cameras which are not truly intended to replace SLRs or film cameras?

  • Reply 38 of 53


    I dont think camera is something the user is main concerned these days, it is the other features like the processing speed, unlocked phone which he wishes iPhone should offer. Also talking about Mega Pixels, HTC is already running on Ultra pixels check the HTC One.

  • Reply 39 of 53
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    stelligent wrote: »
    The fact remains that iPhone cameras are used far more than cameras on any other phones.

    I'd refrain using this argument as it opens up an easy rebuttal regarding Windows popularity over Mac OS X.
  • Reply 40 of 53
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    They may be choosing from a selection of parts that are available. It's also possible to process out smaller smaller than it is actually captured. You might end up with better detail in saturated primaries, given the way they're distributed. In a square shape you would have 2 green pixels, 1 red, and one blue. It's not as bad as it used to be, but the bayer array never seemed terribly ideal.


     




    A number of years ago I worked with the first 2 generations of the 1Ds as well as the Phase One P30 and P45s. Megapixels can make a difference in detail resolved. 8 to 12 isn't a very big difference at all. Some of the 645 sensors with no anti aliasing filters resolve considerably more detail even compared to dslrs with similar pixel counts, although in most cases the dslrs hit the point of good enough several years ago. Even the software that does the debayering and rasterization is a huge factor. You can get a much more pleasing result with some of the modern software revisions today (Lightroom, Phocus, Capture One, etc) even on older dslr cameras. What's interesting is that the tiny cameras that go into phones have certain design limitations yet lack others. There's no mirror so achieving wide angle views doesn't require a retrofocus (reverse mounted telephoto) lens design.



     


    "Some of the 645 sensors with no anti aliasing filters resolve considerably more detail even compared to dslrs with similar pixel counts"


     


    You just changed your story, and correctly that pixel count is not the factor but the processing and sensor quality, as well I would argue, the glass used. 

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