You just might consider that cockpit isn't the spacious equivalent to a gym. It's far too easy to end up in an awkward stance as you shift those 40 lbs around.
True there are a lot of factors to that but i'm sure if most of them are suffering back strain its coming from actually having to transport them since
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Deadlift is quite different than carrying weighs while walking between different terminals at an airport.
That said, you'd think they would use those wheeled bags.
True but deadlifts work the back which is what i was emphasizing. I've only seen pilots with dufflebags or those small roller cases that look like duffle bags though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
What a complete failure of logic.
How so? If you throw your back out by moving 40 lbs the CORRECT WAY you are almost 100% guaranteed out of shape, and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves (being overweight puts immense stress on joints and muscles).
That is worth note. The FAA has examined several if not every tablet released in the last 3-5 years and only approves the iPad for this use.
Some rather big misunderstandings here.
- As I noted, various tablets and handhelds have been used as EFBs since the late 1990s... mostly Windows, Linux and Win CE.
- The FAA does NOT examine tablets on their own, nor do they issue a blanket approval for off-the-shelf devices like the iPad. That's not how it works at all.
Authorization for each use is applied for, and granted to, aPart 135 commercial operator as a specific operation specification (OpSpec). Every application is different, because each operator's intended use, aircraft types, training, etc. is different.
Airlines that wish to use a tablet in the cockpit in place of paper charts, follow a process where they must evaluate which hardware and software they wish to use, how the tablet will be mounted and powered for each type of aircraft, come up with training and operational procedures, equipment and check lists, reporting procedures, etc... then test the tablets in real life to tweak and validate the whole setup.
After spending (usually) months doing the above and evaluating the results successfully, the operator can apply for an interim authorization to use the tablet to replace certain required paper products. At that point, the operator is required to conduct fleet training for pilots of aircraft authorized to use the tablets, which the FAA will also evaluate. If all goes well, the FAA will grant full authorization.
This is why you see each airline putting out a press release when they get approval... because each has to go through an individual process to get it. Sometimes they'll also do later press releases as more aircraft types in their inventory also get approval.
The ones I have seen them use have the small plastic wheels built-in just like all carry on luggage, so no.
The wheels don't add much by themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised if weight of the bag needed to be able to carry that much paperwork would be a few extra pounds.
40 lbs over time, is going to be an issue even if handled 'correctly'. Look at school kids who sometimes carry that much or an equally damaging amount for their weight 5 days a week.
We will have to disagree on that one. I regard hurting yourself by lifting something wrong as a Stupid Person's Injury, and it just worries me that it is so widespread among pilots, people who hold the lives of others in their hands. Still, selling more iPads is good for Apple I guess.
... and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves...
I'd sure like to see your source for that statistic!!!
I'm nearly 50 years old, 5-11 and weigh 150 lbs, run 15 miles a week and likely do more sit-ups and push-ups than you each day.
I look around me in the crew room, or in the lobby/gym/restaurant at any hotel and see most other pilots look more like me than like Michael Moore.
The bags are at least 40 lbs and yes we drag them around on wheels... the injuries are usually the result of getting them into the storage area in the cockpit... it requires bending at the waist and ducking inside while lifting that bag over or around a chair and into place... rarrely, but sometimes, resulting in injuries to ones lower back... it has nothing to do with being in or our of shape.
I'd actually wager that the guys in better shape are MORE likely to suffer injury because we don't live in fear of it and just hurl the bag in place, whereas the (few) fat-ass pigs are much more careful about it because they KNOW they're at risk.
We get REVISIONS to our navigation charts every 2 weeks. Generally about 100-200 pages of the 3000 or so get changed out with those revisions.
Revisions to airline-specific manuals are less frequent ... say 6-8 times a year.
I would imagine Jeppesson's (a division of Boeing) profit margin should go through the roof as they eliminate the printing and shipping costs but continue to charge the same price for subscriptions!
So... the people charged with safely flying us and landing us, can't figure out how to carry a heavy object without hurting themselves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck
Maybe their flight crews should watch what they eat and visit a gym from time to time. Then their fat asses wouldn't have a problem carrying a 40lb bag and their health insurance costs would probably also decrease.
You guys are silly. Looking at any group of people, you will see a distribution. Even if they do everything perfectly and exercise on a regular basis, the rate of injuries will not be 0%. What is so bad about using these as opposed to printed versions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
Can't say i disagree, 40 lbs isnt that heavy at all, i deadlift 10x that amount easily. Hell i see people in their 60s in my gym who can easily do 95-135 lbs like its nothing (which is incredibly impressive for their age/size)
I see the obvious bonus of space savings for having the ipad and not having to lug around 40 lbs for maybe a few minutes but if that throws your back out, you are most likely grossly out of shape...
Most people cannot deadlift 400 lbs correctly unless your gym is high on steroid abuse. Look for over-developed skeletal muscle as an indicator. I can easily carry that much. I've hiked with around 30 pounds of photo gear, water, etc. Most of the time if I see someone deadlift several hundred pounds, they do put their back into it way too much. It'll be someone with a weight belt that jerks on the way up. As you probably know, you're supposed to keep your back straight and heels on the ground. Even then it's still hard on the knees. You wouldn't need to go that high to do it for health reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
True there are a lot of factors to that but i'm sure if most of them are suffering back strain its coming from actually having to transport them since
True but deadlifts work the back which is what i was emphasizing. I've only seen pilots with dufflebags or those small roller cases that look like duffle bags though.
How so? If you throw your back out by moving 40 lbs the CORRECT WAY you are almost 100% guaranteed out of shape, and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves (being overweight puts immense stress on joints and muscles).
Pilots have a mandatory retirement age of something like 65. Do you really think none of the older ones could have such a problem? It doesn't Where did you get a 30% obesity rate? Beyond that there are other advantages. That's a lot of paper reduction and fuel savings.
Comments
AI might consider verifying claimed facts before reprinting company press releases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienbogey
Yes, Alaska Airlines pilots have been issued pilots for well over a year, and have been approved for all phases of flight for quite a while.
Were those Palm Pilots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH
You just might consider that cockpit isn't the spacious equivalent to a gym. It's far too easy to end up in an awkward stance as you shift those 40 lbs around.
True there are a lot of factors to that but i'm sure if most of them are suffering back strain its coming from actually having to transport them since
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Deadlift is quite different than carrying weighs while walking between different terminals at an airport.
That said, you'd think they would use those wheeled bags.
True but deadlifts work the back which is what i was emphasizing. I've only seen pilots with dufflebags or those small roller cases that look like duffle bags though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
What a complete failure of logic.
How so? If you throw your back out by moving 40 lbs the CORRECT WAY you are almost 100% guaranteed out of shape, and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves (being overweight puts immense stress on joints and muscles).
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Deadlift is quite different than carrying weighs while walking between different terminals at an airport.
That said, you'd think they would use those wheeled bags.
Adding another 5 lbs each to the weight of the plane
The ones I have seen them use have the small plastic wheels built-in just like all carry on luggage, so no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
From the article
That is worth note. The FAA has examined several if not every tablet released in the last 3-5 years and only approves the iPad for this use.
Some rather big misunderstandings here.
- As I noted, various tablets and handhelds have been used as EFBs since the late 1990s... mostly Windows, Linux and Win CE.
- The FAA does NOT examine tablets on their own, nor do they issue a blanket approval for off-the-shelf devices like the iPad. That's not how it works at all.
Authorization for each use is applied for, and granted to, a Part 135 commercial operator as a specific operation specification (OpSpec). Every application is different, because each operator's intended use, aircraft types, training, etc. is different.
Airlines that wish to use a tablet in the cockpit in place of paper charts, follow a process where they must evaluate which hardware and software they wish to use, how the tablet will be mounted and powered for each type of aircraft, come up with training and operational procedures, equipment and check lists, reporting procedures, etc... then test the tablets in real life to tweak and validate the whole setup.
After spending (usually) months doing the above and evaluating the results successfully, the operator can apply for an interim authorization to use the tablet to replace certain required paper products. At that point, the operator is required to conduct fleet training for pilots of aircraft authorized to use the tablets, which the FAA will also evaluate. If all goes well, the FAA will grant full authorization.
This is why you see each airline putting out a press release when they get approval... because each has to go through an individual process to get it. Sometimes they'll also do later press releases as more aircraft types in their inventory also get approval.
The wheels don't add much by themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised if weight of the bag needed to be able to carry that much paperwork would be a few extra pounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
40 lbs over time, is going to be an issue even if handled 'correctly'. Look at school kids who sometimes carry that much or an equally damaging amount for their weight 5 days a week.
We will have to disagree on that one. I regard hurting yourself by lifting something wrong as a Stupid Person's Injury, and it just worries me that it is so widespread among pilots, people who hold the lives of others in their hands. Still, selling more iPads is good for Apple I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
... and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves...
I'd sure like to see your source for that statistic!!!
I'm nearly 50 years old, 5-11 and weigh 150 lbs, run 15 miles a week and likely do more sit-ups and push-ups than you each day.
I look around me in the crew room, or in the lobby/gym/restaurant at any hotel and see most other pilots look more like me than like Michael Moore.
The bags are at least 40 lbs and yes we drag them around on wheels... the injuries are usually the result of getting them into the storage area in the cockpit... it requires bending at the waist and ducking inside while lifting that bag over or around a chair and into place... rarrely, but sometimes, resulting in injuries to ones lower back... it has nothing to do with being in or our of shape.
I'd actually wager that the guys in better shape are MORE likely to suffer injury because we don't live in fear of it and just hurl the bag in place, whereas the (few) fat-ass pigs are much more careful about it because they KNOW they're at risk.
We get REVISIONS to our navigation charts every 2 weeks. Generally about 100-200 pages of the 3000 or so get changed out with those revisions.
Revisions to airline-specific manuals are less frequent ... say 6-8 times a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
So... the people charged with safely flying us and landing us, can't figure out how to carry a heavy object without hurting themselves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck
Maybe their flight crews should watch what they eat and visit a gym from time to time. Then their fat asses wouldn't have a problem carrying a 40lb bag and their health insurance costs would probably also decrease.
You guys are silly. Looking at any group of people, you will see a distribution. Even if they do everything perfectly and exercise on a regular basis, the rate of injuries will not be 0%. What is so bad about using these as opposed to printed versions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
Can't say i disagree, 40 lbs isnt that heavy at all, i deadlift 10x that amount easily. Hell i see people in their 60s in my gym who can easily do 95-135 lbs like its nothing (which is incredibly impressive for their age/size)
I see the obvious bonus of space savings for having the ipad and not having to lug around 40 lbs for maybe a few minutes but if that throws your back out, you are most likely grossly out of shape...
Most people cannot deadlift 400 lbs correctly unless your gym is high on steroid abuse. Look for over-developed skeletal muscle as an indicator. I can easily carry that much. I've hiked with around 30 pounds of photo gear, water, etc. Most of the time if I see someone deadlift several hundred pounds, they do put their back into it way too much. It'll be someone with a weight belt that jerks on the way up. As you probably know, you're supposed to keep your back straight and heels on the ground. Even then it's still hard on the knees. You wouldn't need to go that high to do it for health reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
True there are a lot of factors to that but i'm sure if most of them are suffering back strain its coming from actually having to transport them since
True but deadlifts work the back which is what i was emphasizing. I've only seen pilots with dufflebags or those small roller cases that look like duffle bags though.
How so? If you throw your back out by moving 40 lbs the CORRECT WAY you are almost 100% guaranteed out of shape, and considering that Pilots and others in transportation fields tend to have very high obesity rates of over 30% I think the problem isn't the weight of the books, but the weight of themselves (being overweight puts immense stress on joints and muscles).
Pilots have a mandatory retirement age of something like 65. Do you really think none of the older ones could have such a problem? It doesn't Where did you get a 30% obesity rate? Beyond that there are other advantages. That's a lot of paper reduction and fuel savings.