In the first place, iOS *isn't* actually "losing market share," the reports that say so are based only on channel shipments which are not even close to the same thing as saying that a product has "X% share of the market." The market consists of more than just your channel partners. iOS is *gaining* (true) market share on Android almost daily. More people use it than Android and it's pretty much *always* been that way so far. More people buy iPhones than any other phone in the market. It's the market leader in fact with all three models (5, 4, 4s), both selling more, and being more popular than all the other devices on the market.
Android dominance over iOS isn't going to happen, it isn't happening now and it won't happen in the future. There are absolutely no indicators that iOS is slipping in popularity. There is nothing to indicate that it's (true) market share is going down, in fact all indicators are that it's going up. Something north of 90% of the tablet computers in use out there are iPads. The three most popular phones on the planet are all iPhones.
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Remember USA <> World.
But you must remember that profits are universal regardless of boundaries. The U.S. represents around 50% of people where companies are actually selling phones that make any money. All those cheap and disposable Android crap in the third world aren't buying apps and helping out the Android ecosystem other than to be added to some statistic like you have used. Apple, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etch all have to answer to their shareholders and creditors, Android might be outselling the iPhone 3:1 around the globe but you can't ignore the fact that Apple is making around 65% of the entire profit in this sector. That model is unsustainable in the long run for many of these Android makers. 33% or whatever share Apple has globally is a massive number of people.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
But you must remember that profits are universal regardless of boundaries. The U.S. represents around 50% of people where companies are actually selling phones that make any money. All those cheap and disposable Android crap in the third world aren't buying apps and helping out the Android ecosystem other than to be added to some statistic like you have used. Apple, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etch all have to answer to their shareholders and creditors, Android might be outselling the iPhone 3:1 around the globe but you can't ignore the fact that Apple is making around 65% of the entire profit in this sector. That model is unsustainable in the long run for many of these Android makers. 33% or whatever share Apple has globally is a massive number of people.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
Europe is hardly the 3rd world, and Apple makes 61% and rising of their revenue overseas. Even in the developing world like China there are consumers who you are willing to ignore but which Apple is desperate to convert to iOS.
Apple does not have 33% share of the market worldwide - only 17%.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
Even in your hypothetical equation there comes a point when the answer favours Android.
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Remember USA <> World.
And iOS Apps outsell Android 3:1. Which means the average iOS user generates 9x the revenue of the average Android user. And iTunes generates 6x the revenue for music, movies and TV shows that Google Play/Music does.
Is there some gigantic landfill of Android users who never buy anything?
I think he was referring to the statistic that showed iOS users spend a lot more money on apps. Certainly if you are an app developer that is a very important metric to consider.
I think he was referring to the statistic that showed iOS users spend a lot more money on apps. Certainly if you are an app developer that is a very important metric to consider.
also important to consider if you are an advertiser or a content owner looking to get paid. (newspapers, magazines, music, etc). Even unpaid content... remember, by some measures, iOS browser use is 75% of mobile browser use... So a iPhone browser on average hits 4X as many pages as an Android user. That's 4X more ads being displayed (if not in flash;-).
The math on Android indicates 'feature phone' people (I need one function and a phone) buying smart phones. Maybe it's just texting, or Facebook, or ebay, or amazon, the issue is, they don't seem to seek added value (more web pages, more apps, more music, more movies, etc.)
And that math (I use my phone more, therefore I'm optimizing my life around it's functionality) coupled with iTMS/App Store... makes for serious stickiness the next upgrade round.
And android... switching hardware/carriers creates a whole new interface, new look and feel, new, set of features. Not optimal. Smart Android users will know the details of jelly bean vs jelly roll vs jelly sandwich vs verizon vs us cellular vs att and make saavy 'android centric' choices, but the 'feature phone' people, as soon as they see an iPhone that does the feature they need at the price point they like, they'll switch. and likely stick.
And that math (I use my phone more, therefore I'm optimizing my life around it's functionality) coupled with iTMS/App Store... makes for serious stickiness the next upgrade round.
I am not sure I would go that far. I am a Mac owner and have never owned a Windows PC in my life. I also have an iPad and an iPhone 5. But I will likely be getting an Android for my next phone if Apple doesn't release an iPhone with a larger screen. Owning an IPad means I lose nothing. I can still use all my iOS apps, As I mentioned in another thread the iPad is actually pushing me towards a larger Android phone because it is almost painful to switch back to that tiny 4" screen. I know many other people that own an iPad but prefer an Android phone for the same reason. If Apple really wants to increase their "stickiness" they will need to offer a little more variety in terms of price and in my case display size. The one size fits all model can only grow so far.
How did they leverage their way in? Not one single manufacturer is forced to use Android they chose to and can totally keep Google out of it. Samsung did just that with the first Galaxy S, but Google got smart and put all its apps in the Play Store, before then Google apps were built in to the OS.
They leveraged their way in by using all of their search and advertising profits to pay for development of an OS that they planned to give away for free. What part of that don't you understand?
It's sad that the fandroids are so hopelessly weak in logic that all they can come up with is silly arguments like yours.
I'm amazed at the amount of sheer crap and downright lies that the Android fanboys infesting this Apple-enthusiast forum are spewing out in the hopes it gets picked up and mistaken for fact. Amazing. Are these iHaters really believing their nonsense?
It's always been that way. In the 90s, it was the Windows-using Apple haters who spent countless hours on Apple forums spreading their bile. Now its the fandroids.
I'm convinced that it's a mental illness related to narcissistic personality disorder. These people can't stand the idea that anyone would choose to use a product other than theirs and so they come to the Apple forums to spread their hatred and bitterness.
Key to stoking that demand was Apple's strong product: it served clearly valuable purposes, notably being an iPod (which many users were already very familiar and comfortable with), being a very decent web browser (which users also readily recognized as a great thing) and being a cell phone (something that packed not just clear utility, but also brought with it a clear business case for a sale: you need a phone anyway, might as well get this super smart one rather than a complex, difficult to use one that wasn't great at serving as an iPod or browsing the web).
Ugh, will someone PLEASE hire a copy editor for DED?
They leveraged their way in by using all of their search and advertising profits to pay for development of an OS that they planned to give away for free. What part of that don't you understand?
Again they don't give it away. It's taken by whoever wants it and can use it even to shut them out of it. What company would give something to a competitor that was going to use it against them? I don't think it will be long before they're forked by Samsung since they tried it once already. Maybe not HTC, but Samsung and Motorola both had the resources and means to develop their own OS. Google did not force it upon them, but rather they used it in a desperate attempt to counter Apple.
Eric Schmidt and Mark Zuckerberg are standing on the shoulders of Steve Jobs. If there was never an iPhone, do you really think Google would have spontaneously generated Android? Would Facebook be so ubiquitous without the popularization of an easy to use and understand pocket computer by Apple?
History says Google acquired Android before iPhone was launched. In the absence of iPhone, Android would not have turned out the way it is. But it was on the way to being "spontaneously generated".
Again they don't give it away. It's taken by whoever wants it and can use it even to shut them out of it. What company would give something to a competitor that was going to use it against them? I don't think it will be long before they're forked by Samsung since they tried it once already. Maybe not HTC, but Samsung and Motorola both had the resources and means to develop their own OS. Google did not force it upon them, but rather they used it in a desperate attempt to counter Apple.
Your attempts at playing semantics aren't working. It's the same thing. Next you'll be arguing that they don't use a blue 'e' so they can't be compared. The bottom line is both companies give away a product in an effort to secure customers for other products. It doesn't matter that you can fork Android and not use Google's services at all, their assumption is that vendors will use it and those that don't are likely still adding to Google's eyeballs and ecosystem… which is exactly what is happening. You queried, "Why couldn't they make their own OS?" and the answer is most don't have the know-how or resources to make that happen. Google's goal to shore up a lot of marketshare right away was to give it away."Look it's free. How wonderful is that. What can go wrong?" with the clear assumption they would reap the benefit of most of the advertising dollars from the platform. The option to fork is there but when it pulls your brand from the ecosystem you don't win which is why Google has reported over 1 billion "activations" which I'm repeatedly told are only counted if they are using Google's services, not from a forked OS. So why isn't Google worried that everyone will fork Android? For the obvious reasons already stated. Samsung could (and I think should) fork it and that is the gamble Google took when they hatched this Trojan OS but they probably figured, and rightly so, that the chances of a single vendor getting an excessive dominance to make that happen would be slim. I think Samsung needs another 10 or 15% of Android marketshare before that's really viable for them as a move.
Android dominance over iOS isn't going to happen, it isn't happening now and it won't happen in the future. There are absolutely no indicators that iOS is slipping in popularity. There is nothing to indicate that it's (true) market share is going down, in fact all indicators are that it's going up. Something north of 90% of the tablet computers in use out there are iPads. The three most popular phones on the planet are all iPhones.
Get used to it.
I don't believe iOS is slipping in popularity either. But I also don't think it's true that 90% of tablets in use are iPads. Reading is a form of use, no? And is it true that iPhones 4, 4S and 5 remain the three most popular ones "on the planet"? Can you cite recent statistics to back that up (now this is a proper situation to ask for this)?
Sadly, it's becoming Windows in the bad ways too. It seems their OS is being released with more issues and less features than we expect as Apple users. They have been lazy. I am hoping that Forstall's removal and Ive's influence rights the ship back on course. Let them get back to being the best at what they do. They had that with the first few versions, but in the last few releases, their lax approach to their OS has been obvious. Things "just don't work" anymore. Sure, they are popular and easy to use, but hey, so is Windows when it was at the hight of it's popularity. If the iPhone is supposed to be a "premium product", iOS has become just a cash cow riding that wave, and it seems to me that Tim Cook is more worried about the bottom line rather than a good product. He can spout that out in any interview he wants, he needs to show us that it matters. His words are hollow.
But I also don't think it's true that 90% of tablets in use are iPads. Reading is a form of use, no?
I wouldn't count eReaders as tablets. They are in a tablet form factor, but that's like including notebooks as AIOs. The Kindle Fires are less capable than the iPad and Nexus tablets but they are still tablets.
And is it true that iPhones 4, 4S and 5 remain the three most popular ones "on the planet"?
It depends on what you mean by "ones" and where you're looking. On Instagram and Flickr the iPhones seem to be wildly popular. I'm not a camera guy so I don't pay too much attention to those specs. If you mean handsets by "ones" then I'm sure there are cheap phones that sell many more units, so I'd limit such a query to smartphones and specifically higher-end smartphones to exclude what i consider to be feature phones posing as smartphones simply because they have an older version of a modern OS (Android) on old HW.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
In the first place, iOS *isn't* actually "losing market share," the reports that say so are based only on channel shipments which are not even close to the same thing as saying that a product has "X% share of the market." The market consists of more than just your channel partners. iOS is *gaining* (true) market share on Android almost daily. More people use it than Android and it's pretty much *always* been that way so far. More people buy iPhones than any other phone in the market. It's the market leader in fact with all three models (5, 4, 4s), both selling more, and being more popular than all the other devices on the market.
Android dominance over iOS isn't going to happen, it isn't happening now and it won't happen in the future. There are absolutely no indicators that iOS is slipping in popularity. There is nothing to indicate that it's (true) market share is going down, in fact all indicators are that it's going up. Something north of 90% of the tablet computers in use out there are iPads. The three most popular phones on the planet are all iPhones.
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Remember USA <> World.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredD
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Remember USA <> World.
But you must remember that profits are universal regardless of boundaries. The U.S. represents around 50% of people where companies are actually selling phones that make any money. All those cheap and disposable Android crap in the third world aren't buying apps and helping out the Android ecosystem other than to be added to some statistic like you have used. Apple, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etch all have to answer to their shareholders and creditors, Android might be outselling the iPhone 3:1 around the globe but you can't ignore the fact that Apple is making around 65% of the entire profit in this sector. That model is unsustainable in the long run for many of these Android makers. 33% or whatever share Apple has globally is a massive number of people.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
But you must remember that profits are universal regardless of boundaries. The U.S. represents around 50% of people where companies are actually selling phones that make any money. All those cheap and disposable Android crap in the third world aren't buying apps and helping out the Android ecosystem other than to be added to some statistic like you have used. Apple, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etch all have to answer to their shareholders and creditors, Android might be outselling the iPhone 3:1 around the globe but you can't ignore the fact that Apple is making around 65% of the entire profit in this sector. That model is unsustainable in the long run for many of these Android makers. 33% or whatever share Apple has globally is a massive number of people.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
Europe is hardly the 3rd world, and Apple makes 61% and rising of their revenue overseas. Even in the developing world like China there are consumers who you are willing to ignore but which Apple is desperate to convert to iOS.
Apple does not have 33% share of the market worldwide - only 17%.
Would you rather run a lemonade stand and only serve 10 people a day but make a profit of $200 daily or run one serving 100 people a day and bring home a profit of $125 requiring 10 times the work with far less money to show for it?
Even in your hypothetical equation there comes a point when the answer favours Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
iOS has the best users
Would you like to qualify this?
Originally Posted by hentaiboy
Would you like to qualify this?
Of any mobile platform?
Is there some gigantic landfill of Android users who never buy anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy
Would you like to qualify this?
I think he was referring to the statistic that showed iOS users spend a lot more money on apps. Certainly if you are an app developer that is a very important metric to consider.
...and the more players or shipments, the more promotion for the the particular tablet concept invented with the iPad, which helps Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
I think he was referring to the statistic that showed iOS users spend a lot more money on apps. Certainly if you are an app developer that is a very important metric to consider.
also important to consider if you are an advertiser or a content owner looking to get paid. (newspapers, magazines, music, etc). Even unpaid content... remember, by some measures, iOS browser use is 75% of mobile browser use... So a iPhone browser on average hits 4X as many pages as an Android user. That's 4X more ads being displayed (if not in flash;-).
The math on Android indicates 'feature phone' people (I need one function and a phone) buying smart phones. Maybe it's just texting, or Facebook, or ebay, or amazon, the issue is, they don't seem to seek added value (more web pages, more apps, more music, more movies, etc.)
And that math (I use my phone more, therefore I'm optimizing my life around it's functionality) coupled with iTMS/App Store... makes for serious stickiness the next upgrade round.
And android... switching hardware/carriers creates a whole new interface, new look and feel, new, set of features. Not optimal. Smart Android users will know the details of jelly bean vs jelly roll vs jelly sandwich vs verizon vs us cellular vs att and make saavy 'android centric' choices, but the 'feature phone' people, as soon as they see an iPhone that does the feature they need at the price point they like, they'll switch. and likely stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
And that math (I use my phone more, therefore I'm optimizing my life around it's functionality) coupled with iTMS/App Store... makes for serious stickiness the next upgrade round.
I am not sure I would go that far. I am a Mac owner and have never owned a Windows PC in my life. I also have an iPad and an iPhone 5. But I will likely be getting an Android for my next phone if Apple doesn't release an iPhone with a larger screen. Owning an IPad means I lose nothing. I can still use all my iOS apps, As I mentioned in another thread the iPad is actually pushing me towards a larger Android phone because it is almost painful to switch back to that tiny 4" screen. I know many other people that own an iPad but prefer an Android phone for the same reason. If Apple really wants to increase their "stickiness" they will need to offer a little more variety in terms of price and in my case display size. The one size fits all model can only grow so far.
They leveraged their way in by using all of their search and advertising profits to pay for development of an OS that they planned to give away for free. What part of that don't you understand?
It's sad that the fandroids are so hopelessly weak in logic that all they can come up with is silly arguments like yours.
It's always been that way. In the 90s, it was the Windows-using Apple haters who spent countless hours on Apple forums spreading their bile. Now its the fandroids.
I'm convinced that it's a mental illness related to narcissistic personality disorder. These people can't stand the idea that anyone would choose to use a product other than theirs and so they come to the Apple forums to spread their hatred and bitterness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flufflesworth
Great article, as usual, by Mr. Dilger. Thanks.
DED is an idiot
Quote:
Key to stoking that demand was Apple's strong product: it served clearly valuable purposes, notably being an iPod (which many users were already very familiar and comfortable with), being a very decent web browser (which users also readily recognized as a great thing) and being a cell phone (something that packed not just clear utility, but also brought with it a clear business case for a sale: you need a phone anyway, might as well get this super smart one rather than a complex, difficult to use one that wasn't great at serving as an iPod or browsing the web).
Ugh, will someone PLEASE hire a copy editor for DED?
Again they don't give it away. It's taken by whoever wants it and can use it even to shut them out of it. What company would give something to a competitor that was going to use it against them? I don't think it will be long before they're forked by Samsung since they tried it once already. Maybe not HTC, but Samsung and Motorola both had the resources and means to develop their own OS. Google did not force it upon them, but rather they used it in a desperate attempt to counter Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredD
Wow! Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how many of your fellow Apple fans agree with your rather crazy statements.
Maybe if it was 45:55%, but Android outsells iOS 3:1. Is there some gigantic secret landfill full of Android phones which were shipped but not sold?
Remember USA <> World.
The facts are out there "Fredd". You know as well as I do that everything I said was correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
Eric Schmidt and Mark Zuckerberg are standing on the shoulders of Steve Jobs. If there was never an iPhone, do you really think Google would have spontaneously generated Android? Would Facebook be so ubiquitous without the popularization of an easy to use and understand pocket computer by Apple?
History says Google acquired Android before iPhone was launched. In the absence of iPhone, Android would not have turned out the way it is. But it was on the way to being "spontaneously generated".
Your attempts at playing semantics aren't working. It's the same thing. Next you'll be arguing that they don't use a blue 'e' so they can't be compared. The bottom line is both companies give away a product in an effort to secure customers for other products. It doesn't matter that you can fork Android and not use Google's services at all, their assumption is that vendors will use it and those that don't are likely still adding to Google's eyeballs and ecosystem… which is exactly what is happening. You queried, "Why couldn't they make their own OS?" and the answer is most don't have the know-how or resources to make that happen. Google's goal to shore up a lot of marketshare right away was to give it away."Look it's free. How wonderful is that. What can go wrong?" with the clear assumption they would reap the benefit of most of the advertising dollars from the platform. The option to fork is there but when it pulls your brand from the ecosystem you don't win which is why Google has reported over 1 billion "activations" which I'm repeatedly told are only counted if they are using Google's services, not from a forked OS. So why isn't Google worried that everyone will fork Android? For the obvious reasons already stated. Samsung could (and I think should) fork it and that is the gamble Google took when they hatched this Trojan OS but they probably figured, and rightly so, that the chances of a single vendor getting an excessive dominance to make that happen would be slim. I think Samsung needs another 10 or 15% of Android marketshare before that's really viable for them as a move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Android dominance over iOS isn't going to happen, it isn't happening now and it won't happen in the future. There are absolutely no indicators that iOS is slipping in popularity. There is nothing to indicate that it's (true) market share is going down, in fact all indicators are that it's going up. Something north of 90% of the tablet computers in use out there are iPads. The three most popular phones on the planet are all iPhones.
Get used to it.
I don't believe iOS is slipping in popularity either. But I also don't think it's true that 90% of tablets in use are iPads. Reading is a form of use, no? And is it true that iPhones 4, 4S and 5 remain the three most popular ones "on the planet"? Can you cite recent statistics to back that up (now this is a proper situation to ask for this)?
They have been lazy. I am hoping that Forstall's removal and Ive's influence rights the ship back on course. Let them get back to being the best at what they do. They had that with the first few versions, but in the last few releases, their lax approach to their OS has been obvious. Things "just don't work" anymore.
Sure, they are popular and easy to use, but hey, so is Windows when it was at the hight of it's popularity.
If the iPhone is supposed to be a "premium product", iOS has become just a cash cow riding that wave, and it seems to me that Tim Cook is more worried about the bottom line rather than a good product. He can spout that out in any interview he wants, he needs to show us that it matters. His words are hollow.
I wouldn't count eReaders as tablets. They are in a tablet form factor, but that's like including notebooks as AIOs. The Kindle Fires are less capable than the iPad and Nexus tablets but they are still tablets.
It depends on what you mean by "ones" and where you're looking. On Instagram and Flickr the iPhones seem to be wildly popular. I'm not a camera guy so I don't pay too much attention to those specs. If you mean handsets by "ones" then I'm sure there are cheap phones that sell many more units, so I'd limit such a query to smartphones and specifically higher-end smartphones to exclude what i consider to be feature phones posing as smartphones simply because they have an older version of a modern OS (Android) on old HW.