ha ha - you so funny anantksundaram!!... you've posted 10,887 times on Apple Insider... getting that aggression out through your fingertips at strangers around the world... the dark side is powerful young anakin.
I didn't sense any aggression. Also, lame Star Wars reference. If you were gonna do it, at least say "young Skywalker" and not reference the PT.
Johnny is a genius, but since Job's departure he has been harping on about protecting "fragile ideas" and too much philosophy about design bullshit... you can see this reflected in the recent advertising (above) and it's bordering on pretentiousness. Jobs was a great match for Johnny as he kicked him in the ass and brought out the best in him, not letting him get too far into his own head. I worry about Apple now for the simple fact that there is no more fly in the ointment. You need the rough with the smooth as too much smooth gets boring as hell.
I tend to agree. The reason JI shouldn't do (control) the ads is that he gets too introspective and philosophical. Nothing wrong with that but he is not a great communicator, which is why he doesn't present on stage. I am not sure there will be the kind of dynamic balance within Apple there was in SJ's days. Much of that was probably dysfunctional but it worked through sheer force of character. The fact that SJ was a multifaceted genius made it all work. For someone to take the Steve role in terms of Jony Ive, he'd need to have the intelligence and creative insight to earn the full respect of Ive. I can't see that happening.
But that is not to say Apple will become a bad or lost company. I just hope they can stay as focussed, but I have my doubts. It is difficult to tell when so much is in flux, with so many changes. And even if Apple starts to meander creatively, and in terms of marketing, its not as if Samsung, Google or Microsoft will have them beat in those departments. Apple will just become a little more like them.
I didn't sense any aggression. Also, lame Star Wars reference. If you were gonna do it, at least say "young Skywalker" and not reference the PT.
you're right... it's been a while since I've seen Star Wars. I guess the primary purpose of boards like these and the millions of others that exist on the internet is for people to argue anonymously, to unload their anger through discourse with strangers. It's like the "argument clinic" skit on the Monty Python series. There is no purpose served, nothing solved.. just time wasted that could be spent on better things.
ha ha - you so funny anantksundaram!!... you've posted 10,887 times on Apple Insider...
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
Originally Posted by msimpson
And somewhere on a remote Pacific island there are Japanese WW2 veterans who are still holding out.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised. I honestly wouldn't. In the mid '70s, they found some holding out in the Philippines. And right now all that would be required is a small band of them having captured some women from somewhere.
I didn't sense any aggression. Also, lame Star Wars reference. If you were gonna do it, at least say "young Skywalker" and not reference the PT.
you're right... it's been a while since I've seen Star Wars. I guess the primary purpose of boards like these and the millions of others that exist on the internet is for people to argue anonymously, to unload their anger through discourse with strangers. It's like the "argument clinic" skit on the Monty Python series. There is no purpose served, nothing solved.. just time wasted that could be spent on better things.
Does it occur to you that your post actually made no sense -- to me? What evidence do you have for Steve "kicking Jony's ass"? Or not letting him "get too far in his own head"? Granted, Ive's sayings may come through as pretentious to you, but do you know he's not being honest or genuine in expressing what he feels? (Btw, when Jobs makes a sweeping statement -- I am paraphrasing -- like 'dont live someone else's life,' was that pretentious? If not, why not?). How do you know that there is no 'fly in the ointment' at Apple any more? Do you really think there is no 'rough' but only 'smooth' at Apple now? How/why do you think Forstall got fired?
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised. I honestly wouldn't. In the mid '70s, they found some holding out in the Philippines. And right now all that would be required is a small band of them having captured some women from somewhere.
Thank you Tallest Skill. Your wise words are a comfort to those of us who are young and inexperienced in the ways of the Apple Insider message boards. It's such a beautiful feeling to be enlightened by your wisdom. If I can provide a small token of gratitude, please enjoy the following link:
If I were Cook, I'd pop into the offices of TBWA/Chiat/Day and say "I hear tell that some of your guys are having a problem with Phil. Fix it or we'll find another shop."
Apple is paying these guys millions. Whining to the press is shockingly unprofessional, and anyone doing so doesn't deserve the job.
That is, of course, if any of this is even true. "Bad stuff about Apple" is now such a cottage industry that every rumor must be taken with a grain of salt.
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
Hmmm... your post sounds much more insulting than the one by Bennettvista. Goose... gander etc.
In this day and age, good creative talent is dime a dozen, and available in multiple media formats in droves globally. I don't understand why companies like Apple even bother with ad agencies any more (except perhaps for just the sheer convenience of it).
My advice to those guys, assuming this report is true: take a deep breath, or be prepared to take a hike.
Add: Phil S. and Craig F (along with Jony I.) are the real standouts at Apple.
Your comment is total bullshit! Finding great creative minds is as difficult today is as it ever was. You obviously have no understanding of what great creative is, or how difficult it is to develop effective and memorable brand marketing. Based on the amount of media clutter and overload in our lives, the creative process has actually become even more difficult for creating great advertising that helps your brand standout above the rest.
Thank you Tallest Skill. Your wise words are a comfort to those of us who are young and inexperienced in the ways of the Apple Insider message boards. It's such a beautiful feeling to be enlightened by your wisdom.
I don't make jokes. Test it, if you feel up to it.
Originally Posted by island hermit
Hmmm... your post sounds much more insulting than the one by Bennettvista. Goose... gander etc.
Oh man, I couldn't disagree more. In this and age upstarts, 'know it alls' and 'media experts' are a dime a dozen. Creatives with clarity of vision, deep understanding of the message and the audience, and clear leadership, are very very hard to find. To get the marketing strategy right for a company like Apple is impossibly difficult, made more so by the fact that 'creative talent' and 'marketing nous' is something that seemingly every Tom Dick and Harriet has aplenty.
Marketing is difficult and always involves much doubt and soul-searching, and to be able o think clearly and have a clear vision in the cacophony of opinions, takes very special people.
I agree with you.
It's a different day than 1984. Attention spans are miniscule. People tuning out faster than clothing changes by Lady Gaga.
It takes a special person to get people to listen... to make them buy.
Otherwise we'd all be agreeing that Apple's ads are no better than Samsung's ads.
I like the "Signature Ad" that's the black & white graphics only piece that started the WWDC 2013 Keynote... Pure Genius. Run That one as an Apple Brand Commercial too!
Does it occur to you that your post actually made no sense -- to me? What evidence do you have for Steve "kicking Jony's ass"? Or not letting him "get too far in his own head"? Granted, Ive's sayings may come through as pretentious to you, but do you know he's not being honest or genuine in expressing what he feels? (Btw, when Jobs makes a sweeping statement -- I am paraphrasing -- like 'dont live someone else's life,' was that pretentious? If not, why not?). How do you know that there is no 'fly in the ointment' at Apple any more? Do you really think there is no 'rough' but only 'smooth' at Apple now? How/why do you think Forstall got fired?
You get the idea......
Steve was Johnny's boss. Forstall was fired precisely because he was a fly in the ointment and things are probably much happier around there now. From my experience the best creativity has arisen from conflict/chaos. All things move towards their opposites.
Your comment is total bullshit! Finding great creative minds is as difficult today is as it ever was. You obviously have no understanding of what great creative is, or how difficult it is to develop effective and memorable brand marketing. Based on the amount of media clutter and overload in our lives, the creative process has actually become even more difficult for creating great advertising that helps your brand standout above the rest.
You must either work in brand marketing, or you haven't looked hard enough for creative talent.
Whether you like it or want it or not, a lot of it is getting disintermediated today, just as stockbrokers, bankers, consultants, retail stores, etc. are.
Perhaps you can actually aspire to an argument if you can educate us on your "understanding of what great creative" is and why that can be only found in ad agencies and brand management consultants?
I tend to agree. The reason JI shouldn't do (control) the ads is that he gets too introspective and philosophical. Nothing wrong with that but he is not a great communicator, which is why he doesn't present on stage. I am not sure there will be the kind of dynamic balance within Apple there was in SJ's days. Much of that was probably dysfunctional but it worked through sheer force of character. The fact that SJ was a multifaceted genius made it all work. For someone to take the Steve role in terms of Jony Ive, he'd need to have the intelligence and creative insight to earn the full respect of Ive. I can't see that happening.
But that is not to say Apple will become a bad or lost company. I just hope they can stay as focussed, but I have my doubts. It is difficult to tell when so much is in flux, with so many changes. And even if Apple starts to meander creatively, and in terms of marketing, its not as if Samsung, Google or Microsoft will have them beat in those departments. Apple will just become a little more like them.
They are focused. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Steve was Johnny's boss. Forstall was fired precisely because he was a fly in the ointment and things are probably much happier around there now. From my experience the best creativity has arisen from conflict/chaos. All things move towards their opposites.
Forstall was fired because he refused to accept blame for Maps. Microsoft is in constant chaos, tell me what creative idea came from Redmond?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista
ha ha - you so funny anantksundaram!!... you've posted 10,887 times on Apple Insider... getting that aggression out through your fingertips at strangers around the world... the dark side is powerful young anakin.
I didn't sense any aggression. Also, lame Star Wars reference. If you were gonna do it, at least say "young Skywalker" and not reference the PT.
Let me rephrase this. "After Steve Jobs died we thought our jobs would get easier and Phil keeps making it hard on us."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista
Johnny is a genius, but since Job's departure he has been harping on about protecting "fragile ideas" and too much philosophy about design bullshit... you can see this reflected in the recent advertising (above) and it's bordering on pretentiousness. Jobs was a great match for Johnny as he kicked him in the ass and brought out the best in him, not letting him get too far into his own head. I worry about Apple now for the simple fact that there is no more fly in the ointment. You need the rough with the smooth as too much smooth gets boring as hell.
I tend to agree. The reason JI shouldn't do (control) the ads is that he gets too introspective and philosophical. Nothing wrong with that but he is not a great communicator, which is why he doesn't present on stage. I am not sure there will be the kind of dynamic balance within Apple there was in SJ's days. Much of that was probably dysfunctional but it worked through sheer force of character. The fact that SJ was a multifaceted genius made it all work. For someone to take the Steve role in terms of Jony Ive, he'd need to have the intelligence and creative insight to earn the full respect of Ive. I can't see that happening.
But that is not to say Apple will become a bad or lost company. I just hope they can stay as focussed, but I have my doubts. It is difficult to tell when so much is in flux, with so many changes. And even if Apple starts to meander creatively, and in terms of marketing, its not as if Samsung, Google or Microsoft will have them beat in those departments. Apple will just become a little more like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
I didn't sense any aggression. Also, lame Star Wars reference. If you were gonna do it, at least say "young Skywalker" and not reference the PT.
you're right... it's been a while since I've seen Star Wars. I guess the primary purpose of boards like these and the millions of others that exist on the internet is for people to argue anonymously, to unload their anger through discourse with strangers. It's like the "argument clinic" skit on the Monty Python series. There is no purpose served, nothing solved.. just time wasted that could be spent on better things.
Originally Posted by bennettvista
ha ha - you so funny anantksundaram!!... you've posted 10,887 times on Apple Insider...
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
Originally Posted by msimpson
And somewhere on a remote Pacific island there are Japanese WW2 veterans who are still holding out.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised. I honestly wouldn't. In the mid '70s, they found some holding out in the Philippines. And right now all that would be required is a small band of them having captured some women from somewhere.
Does it occur to you that your post actually made no sense -- to me? What evidence do you have for Steve "kicking Jony's ass"? Or not letting him "get too far in his own head"? Granted, Ive's sayings may come through as pretentious to you, but do you know he's not being honest or genuine in expressing what he feels? (Btw, when Jobs makes a sweeping statement -- I am paraphrasing -- like 'dont live someone else's life,' was that pretentious? If not, why not?). How do you know that there is no 'fly in the ointment' at Apple any more? Do you really think there is no 'rough' but only 'smooth' at Apple now? How/why do you think Forstall got fired?
You get the idea......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised. I honestly wouldn't. In the mid '70s, they found some holding out in the Philippines. And right now all that would be required is a small band of them having captured some women from somewhere.
Thank you Tallest Skill. Your wise words are a comfort to those of us who are young and inexperienced in the ways of the Apple Insider message boards. It's such a beautiful feeling to be enlightened by your wisdom. If I can provide a small token of gratitude, please enjoy the following link:
http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/u7d
If I were Cook, I'd pop into the offices of TBWA/Chiat/Day and say "I hear tell that some of your guys are having a problem with Phil. Fix it or we'll find another shop."
Apple is paying these guys millions. Whining to the press is shockingly unprofessional, and anyone doing so doesn't deserve the job.
That is, of course, if any of this is even true. "Bad stuff about Apple" is now such a cottage industry that every rumor must be taken with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Do not make another post insulting another user, much less based on their post count.
Or, rather, you can do that, but instead of saying anything like you have in the past, just say, "I'm an idiot and I don't have an argument in the first place." We'll know what you mean.
Hmmm... your post sounds much more insulting than the one by Bennettvista. Goose... gander etc.
Originally Posted by bennettvista
Thank you Tallest Skill. Your wise words are a comfort to those of us who are young and inexperienced in the ways of the Apple Insider message boards. It's such a beautiful feeling to be enlightened by your wisdom.
I don't make jokes. Test it, if you feel up to it.
Originally Posted by island hermit
Hmmm... your post sounds much more insulting than the one by Bennettvista. Goose... gander etc.
Or he could just have an argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Or he could just have an argument.
Or you could start following your own advice.
Originally Posted by island hermit
Or you could start following your own advice.
… Or he could have had an argument. We're not going to continue this, are we? How can you defend not having an argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Oh man, I couldn't disagree more. In this and age upstarts, 'know it alls' and 'media experts' are a dime a dozen. Creatives with clarity of vision, deep understanding of the message and the audience, and clear leadership, are very very hard to find. To get the marketing strategy right for a company like Apple is impossibly difficult, made more so by the fact that 'creative talent' and 'marketing nous' is something that seemingly every Tom Dick and Harriet has aplenty.
Marketing is difficult and always involves much doubt and soul-searching, and to be able o think clearly and have a clear vision in the cacophony of opinions, takes very special people.
I agree with you.
It's a different day than 1984. Attention spans are miniscule. People tuning out faster than clothing changes by Lady Gaga.
It takes a special person to get people to listen... to make them buy.
Otherwise we'd all be agreeing that Apple's ads are no better than Samsung's ads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
… Or he could have had an argument. We're not going to continue this, are we? How can you defend not having an argument?
It has worked for you and a lot of people on here for a long time. You tell me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLIBSETAG
I like the "Signature Ad" that's the black & white graphics only piece that started the WWDC 2013 Keynote... Pure Genius. Run That one as an Apple Brand Commercial too!
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Does it occur to you that your post actually made no sense -- to me? What evidence do you have for Steve "kicking Jony's ass"? Or not letting him "get too far in his own head"? Granted, Ive's sayings may come through as pretentious to you, but do you know he's not being honest or genuine in expressing what he feels? (Btw, when Jobs makes a sweeping statement -- I am paraphrasing -- like 'dont live someone else's life,' was that pretentious? If not, why not?). How do you know that there is no 'fly in the ointment' at Apple any more? Do you really think there is no 'rough' but only 'smooth' at Apple now? How/why do you think Forstall got fired?
You get the idea......
Steve was Johnny's boss. Forstall was fired precisely because he was a fly in the ointment and things are probably much happier around there now. From my experience the best creativity has arisen from conflict/chaos. All things move towards their opposites.
You must either work in brand marketing, or you haven't looked hard enough for creative talent.
Whether you like it or want it or not, a lot of it is getting disintermediated today, just as stockbrokers, bankers, consultants, retail stores, etc. are.
Perhaps you can actually aspire to an argument if you can educate us on your "understanding of what great creative" is and why that can be only found in ad agencies and brand management consultants?
They are focused. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Forstall was fired because he refused to accept blame for Maps. Microsoft is in constant chaos, tell me what creative idea came from Redmond?