That is how forums work. When you disagree with someone you argue the facts and logic to support your opinion. You don't call them stupid and tell them to shut up and go away.
The unthinking, so as not to call them stupid, imagine that Apple can crank out screen sizes like Samsung can. Or settle on a size and sell a couple million like HTC might do with the One.
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child. And they keep coming back. They never get it. They are wasting our time. Cogent argument doesn't help, because they lack the requisite neurons. It's like trying to explain empathy to a sociopath.
But "Apple should have seen the market's turn toward larger screens a year ago." Right. About a year before that Apple was probably investing that $2 billion in Sharp to get IGZO going. Or quietly buying up and stockpiling indium. Or preparing iOS for a new resolution. Any number of things that we have no idea about.
The basic problem is that these big-screen tantrum throwers can't think. About real things. Why do they deserve a logical response?
Then there's the real possibility that they are not for real, but merely trolling for dollars. Harping on Apple's two perceived vulnerabilities, valuation under Tim Cook, and screen size . . .
The unthinking, so as not to call them stupid, imagine that Apple can crank out screen sizes like Samsung can. Or settle on a size and sell a couple million like HTC might do with the One.
It is fine to call that collective group stupid, my point was not to directly call another poster stupid. Your very well stated posts proves my point by elevating the discussion since you made some great points. You beat him down with salient arguments and didn't need to tell him to shut up and go away which adds nothing of value but more noise. It is best to fight fire with water not more fire. All we can do is flag posts by trolls and let the mods do their job and either ignore them not try not to be like them.
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child.
That's a lot of assumptions on Flaneur's part. ALL major smartphone makers came up with screen's above 4". Only Cook failed. So don't give me a bunch of excuses about production logistics as to why Cook failed to deliver.
And portraying such excuses as a deeper understanding of Apple's philosophy is plain naive and childish.
[...] So yes, he was dissembling on two counts. But it's not bullshit, it's exactly the way you want the CEO to handle it.
Not me. I'd rather hear "We're not prepared to do that now" possibly with the addition of "...but who knows how we'll feel in the future."
I don't want the CEO making up excuses that can't withstand the scrutiny of a six-year-old's deductive reasoning. Aside from the obvious blow to credibility it's insulting to the people who buy Apple products.
He appears to be good at running the company but maybe he's just not so good at speaking directly to critics.
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child.
That's a lot of assumptions on Flaneur's part. ALL major smartphone makers came up with screen's above 4". Only Cook failed. So don't give me a bunch of excuses about production logistics as to why Cook failed to deliver.
And portraying such excuses as a deeper understanding of Apple's philosophy is plain naive and childish.
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Not true...your logic is flawed.......first....the same OEMs are the ones that produce the retina displays for the iPad and the iPhone 5......so...if they can make them for Apple why would they not include them in their own products? The Android OEMs are making bigger screen phones because that is what their customers WANT not because it is the only screen they can produce!! Don't forget Apple does not make their own hardware. The same companies that make the iPhone screens also are the Android OEMs.......
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Not true...your logic is flawed.......first....the same OEMs are the ones that produce the retina displays for the iPad and the iPhone 5......so...if they can make them for Apple why would they not include them in their own products? The Android OEMs are making bigger screen phones because that is what their customers WANT not because it is the only screen they can produce!! Don't forget Apple does not make their own hardware. The same companies that make the iPhone screens also are the Android OEMs.......
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Pedro, neither you nor I nor anyone here knows what goes into the decision making behind closed doors at Apple, Samsung, HTC, or any other company. You have no idea if they can or can't make a 4" phone equivalent to the S4 or HTC One. Perhaps they feel that their money is better spent on making larger phones and there isn't a large enough Android market to bother for people than want 4". But you cannot sit there and say they are incapable of making such a device because all you are doing is speculating. So try not to speak as if you are Moses laying down the law when you are only guessing like the rest of us. I get that you hate Samsung with an absolute passion.
Even you have admitted in the past that the HTC One has a fantastic screen. The reason that they aren't selling as well as the S4 has a lot more to do with marketing money and brand recognition than quality. That also applies to Sony since they are barely hanging on with smart phones. I certainly agree with you that Apple should and very likely will make a larger iPhone. This will likely happen next year. But I don't think for a moment it is technical limitations preventing it. They wanted to transition the old 3.5" with 30 pin to 4" with lightning and needed 2 years to get enough app developers on board and not give them a double whammy with yet another resolution with a larger phone as well so fast. I think it is very likely we will see a cheaper iPhone released along with the flagship iPhone in a few months and both will be 4". Then next year we will very likely see a larger iPhone. I would estimate it to be 4.8". Once that happens their product matrix will be complete and will take them into another decade without the need to introduce any more iPhone models other than the normal yearly updates. They will cover all the bases with an low-mid-high offerings.
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
your not grasping the logic...that is why you don't get it....
The same retina screens on the rMBP...ipad and anything else that has a high res screen that has an Apple logo on it is not made by Apple....it is made by and OEM....those same OEMs make their own mobile phones....among other things......so saying they make crap hardware is the same as saying Apple products are crap.....Apple did not make them.....the same OEMs that you are putting down make all the products inside of Apple products... except for the CPU......but that is NOT what I said. That was not what my comments was about. It was about your logic that OEMs cannot produce a high end 4 or 5 inch screen. Funny they can make rMBP and iPad screens but the screens on OEM phones are crap? Yet they are made by the same companies......your logic is flawed.....
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
your not grasping the logic...that is why you don't get it....
The same retina screens on the rMBP...ipad and anything else that has a high res screen that has an Apple logo on it is not made by Apple....it is made by and OEM....those same OEMs make their own mobile phones....among other things......so saying they make crap hardware is the same as saying Apple products are crap.....Apple did not make them.....the same OEMs that you are putting down make all the products inside of Apple products... except for the CPU......but that is NOT what I said. That was not what my comments was about. It was about your logic that OEMs cannot produce a high end 4 or 5 inch screen. Funny they can make rMBP and iPad screens but the screens on OEM phones are crap? Yet they are made by the same companies......your logic is flawed.....
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still produces inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that. With your flawgic, the company that makes screws should be seen as the ones responsible for ferraris. Or the slaves/workers should be seen as the ones responsible for Eiffel tower. The way macs and other iProducts are assembled and the way they use the tech available has nothing to do with what crappy companies like Samsung, Dell or HP do with their trash.
This is the last time I am going to answer you because if you keep write such stupidity and I respond I will get banned.
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
Then, about screens, you clearly are very very ignorant (Even if you are not native english speaker.... The way you write.... speaks for itself......) but I will tell you again: The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still are inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that.
I tried. If you still respond something similar to that moronic post, you know what my answer to the likes of you is. Have a nice day.
Wow...so instead of debating the points you get personal and insulting.........i think that speaks to you and your intelligence....nothing I could say will make a difference. Such a small minded person.....
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still produces inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that. With your flawgic, the company that makes screws should be seen as the ones responsible for ferraris. Or the slaves/workers should be seen as the ones responsible for Eiffel tower. The way macs and other iProducts are assembled and the way they use the tech available has nothing to do with what crappy companies like Samsung, Dell or HP do with their trash.
You have no ideas what Samsung, HTC, Apple or any other company are capable of making. You also have absolutely no inside knowledge of why these companies choose to release the products that they do or don't release. Everything you wrote is 100% pure conjecture and speculation. AMOLED has also come a very long way and your opinions carried more weight 2 or 3 years ago. The Samsung Galaxy S4 has a very nice display and the only real 2 shortcomings are visibility in sunlight and a grayish hue to white colors. It may not be as nice as the HT One or iPhone 5 display but it has closed the gap quite a ways compared to the Galaxy S3 screen. In reality displays have now reached a point where your average consumer can't tell the difference in typical use.
Apparently some of the commenters are not aware, that when deferred stock and options become vested, you owe taxes immediately. Many executives sell stock in a cashless exercise, to pay that tax liability. They may indeed, keep the rest of the shares for future use.
Apparently some commentators ^^^^^^ are not aware Cook has already made hundreds of millions selling shares and in fact has sold almost every share that has ever vested. So while they may indeed keep future shares the track record is clearly to sell as soon as the shares vest.
Interesting standards Apple came up with. As long as Apple is in the top 67% of performers Cook gets to keep at least 75% of his stock options for that year. Talk about setting the bar low.
Does Samsung sell better screens to other companies than the ones they use on their own S line? That was my point.
Facts:
-There's a huge lucrative market for a nice premium 5" screen device;
-There's an even bigger market for a nice premium 4" screen device;
-Only Apple makes that 4" device, lots of attempts by some OEMs have failed (galaxy mini, similar sony and HTC devices, etc);
-Android + high end CPUs and GPUs needs huge batteries that can only be used on huge phones ---- bigger screen as convenience. The additional drain (by a bigger screen) is nullified by the size of the battery. Despite a 2.5x bigger battery, the S4 loses on every single battery test against the iPhone 5, if the screen is ON.
You know the tasteless criminals that samsung is, and the way they approach the market (they make every single device they can and flood the market, that's their strategy).
Does Samsung sell better screens to other companies than the ones they use on their own S line? That was my point.
Facts:
-There's a huge lucrative market for a nice premium 5" screen device;
-There's an even bigger market for a nice premium 4" screen device;
-Only Apple makes that 4" device, lots of attempts by some OEMs have failed (galaxy mini, similar sony and HTC devices, etc);
-Android + high end CPUs and GPUs needs huge batteries that can only be used on huge phones ---- bigger screen as convenience. The additional drain (by a bigger screen) is nullified by the size of the battery. Despite a 2.5x bigger battery, the S4 loses on every single battery test against the iPhone 5, if the screen is ON.
You know the tasteless criminals that samsung is, and the way they approach the market (they make every single device they can and flood the market, that's their strategy).
Once again you have no idea why these companies make their decisions nor do you have the slightest idea about their pricing or supply issues. If you care to list specific criticisms or comparisons of certain features or models I will be glad to engage you in conversation but your broad generalizations are all over the place. So go have a glass of porto and enjoy some tapas and cool down. Samsung really is not the anti-christ or an incarnation of evil. They are just a Korean conglomerate not worthy of causing you to develop hypertension over your irrational hate of that company.
With AAPL share plummeting 10% in 2 days from historic lows during a stock buyback period, Cook obviously believes AAPL shares are worth less under his cockeyed misguided leadership.
Did you even read the article? Cook asked the board to pay him for his performance, if Apple does not meet expectations he has his incentive stock option pay reduce. He looses money. What CEO of any corporation that you can name would do that to his pay? And what control does he have over a poor performing stock market, over a 2 day decline? The NASDAQ has lost 7.4% this week in an overall decline.
Not me. I'd rather hear "We're not prepared to do that now" possibly with the addition of "...but who knows how we'll feel in the future."
I don't want the CEO making up excuses that can't withstand the scrutiny of a six-year-old's deductive reasoning. Aside from the obvious blow to credibility it's insulting to the people who buy Apple products.
He appears to be good at running the company but maybe he's just not so good at speaking directly to critics.
He doesn't seem to be able to convince critics like yourself, because you want a lie: "Sure we could do a larger screen, but we decided to settle on what we got," or somesuch. Instead he says the tradeoffs would result in a phone that would not be to Apple's standards. The standards Apple follows, by the way, are those of the old Nikon and Leica crowd when it comes to color accuracy and white balance, not the standards of the average phone buyer.
He was telling the absolute truth, witholding the part about the breakthrough that's going to allow them to put out a larger screen (in the range of 30 million or so the first year) without sacrificing battery life and weight, and witholding any direct slamming of Samsung for using trash like AMOLED. Keeping the developers happy is also in the equation too, but I can't speculate on that.
They aren't going to sell out the photographers and others who care about the best possible visual experience. That would solve your six-year-old child problem if you would keep that in mind. He's a product guy after all.
He doesn't seem to be able to convince critics like yourself, because you want a lie: "Sure we could do a larger screen, but we decided to settle on what we got," or somesuch. Instead he says the tradeoffs would result in a phone that would not be to Apple's standards.
Then how do you explain the Retina iPad? Either it *IS* possible to build a larger screen that meets Apple's exacting standards or the iPad is a substandard device, and a contradiction of Cook's claims about maintaining high standards.
I am not a Cook hater, but do honestly believe the statements he made on this subject were pure hooey. He was making excuses. WHY he would have done that is anyone's guess, but there's no question at all in my mind that he was deflecting attention from something.
Comments
The unthinking, so as not to call them stupid, imagine that Apple can crank out screen sizes like Samsung can. Or settle on a size and sell a couple million like HTC might do with the One.
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child. And they keep coming back. They never get it. They are wasting our time. Cogent argument doesn't help, because they lack the requisite neurons. It's like trying to explain empathy to a sociopath.
But "Apple should have seen the market's turn toward larger screens a year ago." Right. About a year before that Apple was probably investing that $2 billion in Sharp to get IGZO going. Or quietly buying up and stockpiling indium. Or preparing iOS for a new resolution. Any number of things that we have no idea about.
The basic problem is that these big-screen tantrum throwers can't think. About real things. Why do they deserve a logical response?
Then there's the real possibility that they are not for real, but merely trolling for dollars. Harping on Apple's two perceived vulnerabilities, valuation under Tim Cook, and screen size . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
The unthinking, so as not to call them stupid, imagine that Apple can crank out screen sizes like Samsung can. Or settle on a size and sell a couple million like HTC might do with the One.
It is fine to call that collective group stupid, my point was not to directly call another poster stupid. Your very well stated posts proves my point by elevating the discussion since you made some great points. You beat him down with salient arguments and didn't need to tell him to shut up and go away which adds nothing of value but more noise. It is best to fight fire with water not more fire. All we can do is flag posts by trolls and let the mods do their job and either ignore them not try not to be like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child.
That's a lot of assumptions on Flaneur's part. ALL major smartphone makers came up with screen's above 4". Only Cook failed. So don't give me a bunch of excuses about production logistics as to why Cook failed to deliver.
And portraying such excuses as a deeper understanding of Apple's philosophy is plain naive and childish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
[...] So yes, he was dissembling on two counts. But it's not bullshit, it's exactly the way you want the CEO to handle it.
Not me. I'd rather hear "We're not prepared to do that now" possibly with the addition of "...but who knows how we'll feel in the future."
I don't want the CEO making up excuses that can't withstand the scrutiny of a six-year-old's deductive reasoning. Aside from the obvious blow to credibility it's insulting to the people who buy Apple products.
He appears to be good at running the company but maybe he's just not so good at speaking directly to critics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enature
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
They have no clue about the years of development that Apple puts into a phone, and the years of arrangements with display or chip suppliers that are necessary before they can hit the market in 20 countries in the millions on the first weekend and in the tens of millions over the course of the device's lifetime.
They do not think about realities, so they don't deserve a real response. It's like arguing with a child.
That's a lot of assumptions on Flaneur's part. ALL major smartphone makers came up with screen's above 4". Only Cook failed. So don't give me a bunch of excuses about production logistics as to why Cook failed to deliver.
And portraying such excuses as a deeper understanding of Apple's philosophy is plain naive and childish.
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Not true...your logic is flawed.......first....the same OEMs are the ones that produce the retina displays for the iPad and the iPhone 5......so...if they can make them for Apple why would they not include them in their own products? The Android OEMs are making bigger screen phones because that is what their customers WANT not because it is the only screen they can produce!! Don't forget Apple does not make their own hardware. The same companies that make the iPhone screens also are the Android OEMs.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Not true...your logic is flawed.......first....the same OEMs are the ones that produce the retina displays for the iPad and the iPhone 5......so...if they can make them for Apple why would they not include them in their own products? The Android OEMs are making bigger screen phones because that is what their customers WANT not because it is the only screen they can produce!! Don't forget Apple does not make their own hardware. The same companies that make the iPhone screens also are the Android OEMs.......
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
All of those phones have huge compromises and as consequence are inferior devices.
Only Apple failed? Where is the 4"+ device with a screen comparable in quality to the iPhone? You have 1 or 2, the Xperia Z and HTC one. Between those, the iPhone still has the better screen from a lot of metrics, and then see how many devices (HTC one and Xperia Z) are sold.
Both are heavier, both are huge, both had problems getting out of the factory, both are small sellers (compared to the iPhone).
How in the world can you counter this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple is the only one that CAN produce a great 5 inch device and they are not doing it just because they are earning 10 billion net profit each quarter, otherwise they would.
The truth is that current high end devices have big screens because OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower. All the smaller versions are "cheap". But only a blind man would say that there is no market for a premium and lucrative 5" phone. It is much better for media consumption and the lack of talent from Android OEMs (that forced them to produce bigger phones) came as a blessing in disguise, as the "smaller phone" as fashion status disappeared completely, and usability became king.
Pedro, neither you nor I nor anyone here knows what goes into the decision making behind closed doors at Apple, Samsung, HTC, or any other company. You have no idea if they can or can't make a 4" phone equivalent to the S4 or HTC One. Perhaps they feel that their money is better spent on making larger phones and there isn't a large enough Android market to bother for people than want 4". But you cannot sit there and say they are incapable of making such a device because all you are doing is speculating. So try not to speak as if you are Moses laying down the law when you are only guessing like the rest of us. I get that you hate Samsung with an absolute passion.
Even you have admitted in the past that the HTC One has a fantastic screen. The reason that they aren't selling as well as the S4 has a lot more to do with marketing money and brand recognition than quality. That also applies to Sony since they are barely hanging on with smart phones. I certainly agree with you that Apple should and very likely will make a larger iPhone. This will likely happen next year. But I don't think for a moment it is technical limitations preventing it. They wanted to transition the old 3.5" with 30 pin to 4" with lightning and needed 2 years to get enough app developers on board and not give them a double whammy with yet another resolution with a larger phone as well so fast. I think it is very likely we will see a cheaper iPhone released along with the flagship iPhone in a few months and both will be 4". Then next year we will very likely see a larger iPhone. I would estimate it to be 4.8". Once that happens their product matrix will be complete and will take them into another decade without the need to introduce any more iPhone models other than the normal yearly updates. They will cover all the bases with an low-mid-high offerings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
your not grasping the logic...that is why you don't get it....
The same retina screens on the rMBP...ipad and anything else that has a high res screen that has an Apple logo on it is not made by Apple....it is made by and OEM....those same OEMs make their own mobile phones....among other things......so saying they make crap hardware is the same as saying Apple products are crap.....Apple did not make them.....the same OEMs that you are putting down make all the products inside of Apple products... except for the CPU......but that is NOT what I said. That was not what my comments was about. It was about your logic that OEMs cannot produce a high end 4 or 5 inch screen. Funny they can make rMBP and iPad screens but the screens on OEM phones are crap? Yet they are made by the same companies......your logic is flawed.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
No, your logic is flawed, I never said anything about they not being able to produce great 4" screens, or are you having any trouble reading what I wrote?
First, they (Samsung) can produce those screens, but Apple buys all of them with years of advance. That's what made Samsung invest so much in amoled, despite all screens being inferior to the one used on the iPhone. The "samsung" that makes phones is a complete different "samsung" that makes screens. They have nothing in common, and treat each other like regular clients.
Second of all, "OEMs do not have the capacity and talent to produce a high end 4" device with reasonable battery life and horsepower".
The vast majority of phones sold by (for example) Samsung, LG and Sony have screen sizes smaller then 4.5", but there's no highend 4" model because they can't produce one. Just watered down versions that nobody is willing to pay for, like the galaxy s3 (and s4) mini.
Besides what you wrote about they not making their parts is completely irrelevant and makes you look very ignorant about the matter. The screen is unique. The CPU is unique. The way the phone is "mounted" is unique. The phone is unique.
Can you say the same about a plastic s4 with a qualcomm processor running android with a 2.2 froyo skin on top?
your not grasping the logic...that is why you don't get it....
The same retina screens on the rMBP...ipad and anything else that has a high res screen that has an Apple logo on it is not made by Apple....it is made by and OEM....those same OEMs make their own mobile phones....among other things......so saying they make crap hardware is the same as saying Apple products are crap.....Apple did not make them.....the same OEMs that you are putting down make all the products inside of Apple products... except for the CPU......but that is NOT what I said. That was not what my comments was about. It was about your logic that OEMs cannot produce a high end 4 or 5 inch screen. Funny they can make rMBP and iPad screens but the screens on OEM phones are crap? Yet they are made by the same companies......your logic is flawed.....
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still produces inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that. With your flawgic, the company that makes screws should be seen as the ones responsible for ferraris. Or the slaves/workers should be seen as the ones responsible for Eiffel tower. The way macs and other iProducts are assembled and the way they use the tech available has nothing to do with what crappy companies like Samsung, Dell or HP do with their trash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
This is the last time I am going to answer you because if you keep write such stupidity and I respond I will get banned.
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
Then, about screens, you clearly are very very ignorant (Even if you are not native english speaker.... The way you write.... speaks for itself......) but I will tell you again: The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still are inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that.
I tried. If you still respond something similar to that moronic post, you know what my answer to the likes of you is. Have a nice day.
Wow...so instead of debating the points you get personal and insulting.........i think that speaks to you and your intelligence....nothing I could say will make a difference. Such a small minded person.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
They can make great 4" screens, but they can't put the same internals inside a 4" phone. They do not have the talent. They have to cut CPUs in half, take half the ram and storage, and try to fit a huge battery because android is a pig, and they always fall short of making great smaller devices.
The companies that make the screens have nothing to do with the companies that make smartphones, even if the name is the same. They are independent. That's why they are called conglomerates.
The samsung that makes screens for Apple loves Apple, because they are their best and bigger client, so the Samsung that makes phones only has the rest that Apple doesn't want. So they invested in amoled, that still produces inferior displays to the ones used on iPhones. They are crap, actually.
That's why Apple is always the first with great tech, and great screens. In most cases, Apple finances the plants and machinery used to produce components and other companies provide the hands needed. Simple as that. With your flawgic, the company that makes screws should be seen as the ones responsible for ferraris. Or the slaves/workers should be seen as the ones responsible for Eiffel tower. The way macs and other iProducts are assembled and the way they use the tech available has nothing to do with what crappy companies like Samsung, Dell or HP do with their trash.
You have no ideas what Samsung, HTC, Apple or any other company are capable of making. You also have absolutely no inside knowledge of why these companies choose to release the products that they do or don't release. Everything you wrote is 100% pure conjecture and speculation. AMOLED has also come a very long way and your opinions carried more weight 2 or 3 years ago. The Samsung Galaxy S4 has a very nice display and the only real 2 shortcomings are visibility in sunlight and a grayish hue to white colors. It may not be as nice as the HT One or iPhone 5 display but it has closed the gap quite a ways compared to the Galaxy S3 screen. In reality displays have now reached a point where your average consumer can't tell the difference in typical use.
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Originally Posted by rkevwill
Apparently some of the commenters are not aware, that when deferred stock and options become vested, you owe taxes immediately. Many executives sell stock in a cashless exercise, to pay that tax liability. They may indeed, keep the rest of the shares for future use.
Apparently some commentators ^^^^^^ are not aware Cook has already made hundreds of millions selling shares and in fact has sold almost every share that has ever vested. So while they may indeed keep future shares the track record is clearly to sell as soon as the shares vest.
Interesting standards Apple came up with. As long as Apple is in the top 67% of performers Cook gets to keep at least 75% of his stock options for that year. Talk about setting the bar low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
Does Samsung sell better screens to other companies than the ones they use on their own S line? That was my point.
Facts:
-There's a huge lucrative market for a nice premium 5" screen device;
-There's an even bigger market for a nice premium 4" screen device;
-Only Apple makes that 4" device, lots of attempts by some OEMs have failed (galaxy mini, similar sony and HTC devices, etc);
-Android + high end CPUs and GPUs needs huge batteries that can only be used on huge phones ---- bigger screen as convenience. The additional drain (by a bigger screen) is nullified by the size of the battery. Despite a 2.5x bigger battery, the S4 loses on every single battery test against the iPhone 5, if the screen is ON.
You know the tasteless criminals that samsung is, and the way they approach the market (they make every single device they can and flood the market, that's their strategy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Does Samsung sell better screens to other companies than the ones they use on their own S line? That was my point.
Facts:
-There's a huge lucrative market for a nice premium 5" screen device;
-There's an even bigger market for a nice premium 4" screen device;
-Only Apple makes that 4" device, lots of attempts by some OEMs have failed (galaxy mini, similar sony and HTC devices, etc);
-Android + high end CPUs and GPUs needs huge batteries that can only be used on huge phones ---- bigger screen as convenience. The additional drain (by a bigger screen) is nullified by the size of the battery. Despite a 2.5x bigger battery, the S4 loses on every single battery test against the iPhone 5, if the screen is ON.
You know the tasteless criminals that samsung is, and the way they approach the market (they make every single device they can and flood the market, that's their strategy).
Once again you have no idea why these companies make their decisions nor do you have the slightest idea about their pricing or supply issues. If you care to list specific criticisms or comparisons of certain features or models I will be glad to engage you in conversation but your broad generalizations are all over the place. So go have a glass of porto and enjoy some tapas and cool down. Samsung really is not the anti-christ or an incarnation of evil. They are just a Korean conglomerate not worthy of causing you to develop hypertension over your irrational hate of that company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web
With AAPL share plummeting 10% in 2 days from historic lows during a stock buyback period, Cook obviously believes AAPL shares are worth less under his cockeyed misguided leadership.
Did you even read the article? Cook asked the board to pay him for his performance, if Apple does not meet expectations he has his incentive stock option pay reduce. He looses money. What CEO of any corporation that you can name would do that to his pay? And what control does he have over a poor performing stock market, over a 2 day decline? The NASDAQ has lost 7.4% this week in an overall decline.
He doesn't seem to be able to convince critics like yourself, because you want a lie: "Sure we could do a larger screen, but we decided to settle on what we got," or somesuch. Instead he says the tradeoffs would result in a phone that would not be to Apple's standards. The standards Apple follows, by the way, are those of the old Nikon and Leica crowd when it comes to color accuracy and white balance, not the standards of the average phone buyer.
He was telling the absolute truth, witholding the part about the breakthrough that's going to allow them to put out a larger screen (in the range of 30 million or so the first year) without sacrificing battery life and weight, and witholding any direct slamming of Samsung for using trash like AMOLED. Keeping the developers happy is also in the equation too, but I can't speculate on that.
They aren't going to sell out the photographers and others who care about the best possible visual experience. That would solve your six-year-old child problem if you would keep that in mind. He's a product guy after all.
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Originally Posted by Flaneur
He doesn't seem to be able to convince critics like yourself, because you want a lie: "Sure we could do a larger screen, but we decided to settle on what we got," or somesuch. Instead he says the tradeoffs would result in a phone that would not be to Apple's standards.
Then how do you explain the Retina iPad? Either it *IS* possible to build a larger screen that meets Apple's exacting standards or the iPad is a substandard device, and a contradiction of Cook's claims about maintaining high standards.
I am not a Cook hater, but do honestly believe the statements he made on this subject were pure hooey. He was making excuses. WHY he would have done that is anyone's guess, but there's no question at all in my mind that he was deflecting attention from something.