Agree, Linux kernel as being ported to 64bit many years ago. But this is not the case for the Android fork Google is working on. Beside compiling the OS and libs for 64bit is only the iceberg tips, a lot is still missing right now in Linux for supporting multiple architecture binary like OSX and iOS is doing.
Android already has fat binary support; the APK format allows multiple architectures. If you run into the APK size limits, you can use the multiple-APK support Google rolled out last year. But this shouldn't be an issue for most apps which use Dalvik because it's platform-independent
Apple said that they need 3 things to transfer to 64-bit quickly.
First, great hardware (iPhone 5S is great ,
second a 64 bit OS to take advantage of great hardware (iOS 7)
And third, support of developer comunity to adopt 64-bit. (NOONE has stronger developer support than Apple)
So we will have lots of smartphones with 64 bit rushing out next year. By that time Apple will have 90% of its users on 64 bit OS (iOS 7)
And I think over 50% percent of Apps remaked for 64 bit, that will run so fast on the 5S they will literally flew out the screen.
And those android fans with 64 bit 6 to 7 inch "phones" will have to wait for the google IO maybe even to fall before the 64 bit version of android get relased, then wait another 4-9 months to get it on their phone and last but most significant, they will literally have to wait for years before most of the android apps get tuned for 64-bit. This will fragment android even more.
Transition to 64-bit is what can Apple start and finish even before competition can react, thanks to great hardware, software and developers.
So noone cares that samsung phones will got some 16 core 3 Ghz 64-bit processor (with 4GB of RAM obviously) 6 months from now when there will be already a huge installed base of tens of millions of iPhones and iPads running 64-bit code under 64-bit OS on a 64-bit hardware.
What good is 64 bit hardware without 64 bit software? I think it may take Google a while to get Android at 64 bit so this is another marketing ploy by Samsung. Why doesn't the article mention this? As Apple said others aren't even talking about it.
First, I don't disagree with you at all. But we don't know what kit kat is going to be, as far as I know, nor does Apple so while I, too, believe it, just because Apple said its true doesn't mean it is
Android already has fat binary support; the APK format allows multiple architectures. If you run into the APK size limits, you can use the multiple-APK support Google rolled out last year. But this shouldn't be an issue for most apps which use Dalvik because it's platform-independent
Multiple-APK is not a fat binary technology, here is the description from your link:
Quote:
Multiple APK support is a feature on Google Play that allows you to publish different APKs for your application that are each targeted to different device configurations. Each APK is a complete and independent version of your application, but they share the same application listing on Google Play and must share the same package name and be signed with the same release key
This mean for developer to compile and package separated version of the same apps for every device configuration it target. Having a real fat binary support require being able to run the same binary transparently on any device like OSX and iOS is doing.
I think most people are underestimating the potential of 64bit and don't forget Open GL. Many might be correct that on an iPhone it may not be needed but you need to look around the corner at the potential. Next up would be an iPad refresh. Remember the device that has killed the PC market. Its been a long while since a refresh. Think 64bit on that device and the number of people who may be looking for n upgrade. Many developers compile one universal app for iphone and ipad and can easily do so now in 64bit as well. The iPhone 5s is the intro. The next iPad will be running an A7 in 64bit as well. This will jettison the iPad that much further along then any competition. Opens up a whole new world of apps that can run on these devices.
Multiple-APK is not a multi-arch executable technology
This mean for developer to compile and package separated version of the same apps for every device configuration it target. Having a real 32/64 bit fat support require being able to run the same binary on 32 bit and 64 bit OS transparently like OSX and iOS is doing.
You missed the part of my post where I said that APKs already support multiple architectures. You only need multi-APK if you run into a size limit. The new Gradle build system in Android Studio makes supporting multi-APKs easier.
64 bit processor with a 32 bit operating system with a 2 bit user experience. Way to go Samsung!
Good one! I believe this one works as well:
A 64-bit memory extension plugin for a 32 bit shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, implemented by a 2 bit company who don't have 1 bit of originality.
But if they're not talking with 64-bit then it won't matter because it can't register that amount of RAM. Regardless, I don't know of a phone that is anywhere near 4GB of RAM
some of the Android devices are starting to approach this. Look at Samsung's press release for the Note 3 and 10" Galaxy tab.
Competition is good. Heaven forfend the day we should see only one mobile device maker.
Competition based on innovation is good. Competition based on tearing apart your competitor's product to try and emulate it is not. Bringing to market an innovative idea is more expensive than using a competitors finished product to bypass your own R& D. Allowing blind copying to compete in the market place ultimately kills innovation because the innovator can't compete with the copier on price. Dyson is the latest company to sue Samsung over competing by merely copying Dyson's products to bypass its own R & D.
I was going to buy one of those Dyson Blade-less heater/fans:
...Now, I guess I'll wait for the 64-bit SammyFanny...
Did you make the same comment when Apple copied the larger screens on typical Android devices for the iPhone 5?
I was being 100% sarcastic. The transition from 32-bit to 64-bit is coming to all phones eventually because it's the natural progression of technology. Mobile chips are a few years behind desktop chips but following basically the same pattern.
64 bit will help out the gamers on an iPhone, but the reason it is critically important and will make a difference is because it will boost the performance of iPads. Almost certain the iPads will be getting a CPU upgrade in the next month or so. For Apple shareholders, this will be important. The tablet market in the long run is the holy grail. The tablet market will expand more slowly and for a much longer period of time and whoever wins the tablet market will own the computer market. In the long term, Microsoft is in serious trouble because they don't have a mobile platform.
This needs to be repeated until it sinks into some thick heads. Apple is in this for the long haul and is working towards computing for a decade into the future. I think the iPhone only exists because they saw it as a good way to transitin people into the iPad. And having sold a few they realized that future computing would come in three favors: mobile (tablets) very mobile (phones) and that stuff that grandma used to do, you know with the big screen? That stuff companies do now? Not mobile? What is it called? Oh yeah, desktops...
The 64 bit combined with the performance upgrade is going to make a huge difference in tablets. And Apple controls it. The hardware, the cores, the software, all of it. And very soon at the rate they are improving chips your iPad will be running very very close to your desktop in speed.
How hot does this chip run? Anyone know? Can they give the iPad a dual chip? Four cores? Eight? How far away is that? And when your iPad has 128 gigs and desktop speed and can reach the cloud from almost anywhere, why would you buy a computer?
Already in my house we are getting closer to this every day. We have a desktop that is essentially a server or big iron. Yes, I have to rip the occasional movie, and I still keep iPhone and iPad backups there, but except for 2-3 times a week doing short intensive tasks, it could be stored in a closet and still do its job. But we have 4 iPhones, 3 iPads, and an iPod that get used on a near constant basis.
Which market do you want to control, the past, or the future.
You missed the part of my post where I said that APKs already support multiple architectures. You only need multi-APK if you run into a size limit. The new Gradle build system in Android Studio makes supporting multi-APKs easier.
It is not what it's said on your links and in the quote I got from that site. I think you are confusing between multiple device configuration and multiple CPU architecture. Right now Android support only one CPU architecture, and currently no Linux nor Android release that support multiple arch binary as a standard feature.
Android support only one CPU architecture, and currently no Linux nor Android release that support multiple arch binary as a standard feature.
That's just wrong. Android compiles and runs on multiple ARM platforms (ARM11, ARMv7, ARMv8), x86, and MIPS. Intel is actively working on x32 and x64. For example, here are two patches from Intel for multi-arch support:
These were picked just by looking at today's AOSP Gerrit front page.
Further, APK files support multiple architectures. The installer extracts the appropriate binaries for the platform at install-time. APKs are limited to 50 MB, so if you have a lot of native code for a lot of architectures, you'd need the multiple APK support.
Comments
Agree, Linux kernel as being ported to 64bit many years ago. But this is not the case for the Android fork Google is working on. Beside compiling the OS and libs for 64bit is only the iceberg tips, a lot is still missing right now in Linux for supporting multiple architecture binary like OSX and iOS is doing.
Android already has fat binary support; the APK format allows multiple architectures. If you run into the APK size limits, you can use the multiple-APK support Google rolled out last year. But this shouldn't be an issue for most apps which use Dalvik because it's platform-independent
^^^ says it all!
"is going to be" != "already is"
You mean this one? Why yes it does...
http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/14/4106720/samsung-appoints-two-new-co-ceos-following-galaxy-s4-launch
"General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"
-- Dr Strangelove
Android already has fat binary support; the APK format allows multiple architectures. If you run into the APK size limits, you can use the multiple-APK support Google rolled out last year. But this shouldn't be an issue for most apps which use Dalvik because it's platform-independent
Multiple-APK is not a fat binary technology, here is the description from your link:
This mean for developer to compile and package separated version of the same apps for every device configuration it target. Having a real fat binary support require being able to run the same binary transparently on any device like OSX and iOS is doing.
I think most people are underestimating the potential of 64bit and don't forget Open GL. Many might be correct that on an iPhone it may not be needed but you need to look around the corner at the potential. Next up would be an iPad refresh. Remember the device that has killed the PC market. Its been a long while since a refresh. Think 64bit on that device and the number of people who may be looking for n upgrade. Many developers compile one universal app for iphone and ipad and can easily do so now in 64bit as well. The iPhone 5s is the intro. The next iPad will be running an A7 in 64bit as well. This will jettison the iPad that much further along then any competition. Opens up a whole new world of apps that can run on these devices.
Multiple-APK is not a multi-arch executable technology
This mean for developer to compile and package separated version of the same apps for every device configuration it target. Having a real 32/64 bit fat support require being able to run the same binary on 32 bit and 64 bit OS transparently like OSX and iOS is doing.
You missed the part of my post where I said that APKs already support multiple architectures. You only need multi-APK if you run into a size limit. The new Gradle build system in Android Studio makes supporting multi-APKs easier.
Good one! I believe this one works as well:
A 64-bit memory extension plugin for a 32 bit shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, implemented by a 2 bit company who don't have 1 bit of originality.
But if they're not talking with 64-bit then it won't matter because it can't register that amount of RAM. Regardless, I don't know of a phone that is anywhere near 4GB of RAM
some of the Android devices are starting to approach this. Look at Samsung's press release for the Note 3 and 10" Galaxy tab.
I was going to buy one of those Dyson Blade-less heater/fans:
...Now, I guess I'll wait for the 64-bit SammyFanny...
Now thats what I call a lot of cores!
I think you mean Monkey DoDo
LOL Best post in thread!
Aw, you're being too harsh: I'd give them credit for Monkey Do too.
Monkey Doo Doo.
On edit: I see Dick Applebaum beat me to it.
Did you make the same comment when Apple copied the larger screens on typical Android devices for the iPhone 5?
I was being 100% sarcastic. The transition from 32-bit to 64-bit is coming to all phones eventually because it's the natural progression of technology. Mobile chips are a few years behind desktop chips but following basically the same pattern.
This needs to be repeated until it sinks into some thick heads. Apple is in this for the long haul and is working towards computing for a decade into the future. I think the iPhone only exists because they saw it as a good way to transitin people into the iPad. And having sold a few they realized that future computing would come in three favors: mobile (tablets) very mobile (phones) and that stuff that grandma used to do, you know with the big screen? That stuff companies do now? Not mobile? What is it called? Oh yeah, desktops...
The 64 bit combined with the performance upgrade is going to make a huge difference in tablets. And Apple controls it. The hardware, the cores, the software, all of it. And very soon at the rate they are improving chips your iPad will be running very very close to your desktop in speed.
How hot does this chip run? Anyone know? Can they give the iPad a dual chip? Four cores? Eight? How far away is that? And when your iPad has 128 gigs and desktop speed and can reach the cloud from almost anywhere, why would you buy a computer?
Already in my house we are getting closer to this every day. We have a desktop that is essentially a server or big iron. Yes, I have to rip the occasional movie, and I still keep iPhone and iPad backups there, but except for 2-3 times a week doing short intensive tasks, it could be stored in a closet and still do its job. But we have 4 iPhones, 3 iPads, and an iPod that get used on a near constant basis.
Which market do you want to control, the past, or the future.
Skate to where the puck will be...
You missed the part of my post where I said that APKs already support multiple architectures. You only need multi-APK if you run into a size limit. The new Gradle build system in Android Studio makes supporting multi-APKs easier.
It is not what it's said on your links and in the quote I got from that site. I think you are confusing between multiple device configuration and multiple CPU architecture. Right now Android support only one CPU architecture, and currently no Linux nor Android release that support multiple arch binary as a standard feature.
Android support only one CPU architecture, and currently no Linux nor Android release that support multiple arch binary as a standard feature.
That's just wrong. Android compiles and runs on multiple ARM platforms (ARM11, ARMv7, ARMv8), x86, and MIPS. Intel is actively working on x32 and x64. For example, here are two patches from Intel for multi-arch support:
These were picked just by looking at today's AOSP Gerrit front page.
Further, APK files support multiple architectures. The installer extracts the appropriate binaries for the platform at install-time. APKs are limited to 50 MB, so if you have a lot of native code for a lot of architectures, you'd need the multiple APK support.