First, Samsung is one of the mfg Apple uses for producing their proprietary ARM custom chip, beside Apple bought few years ago the R&D teams reponsible for Samsung ARM development, ever since Samsung are using generic and wildly available ARM + GPU design.
Second, there is a lot more to go with 64bit computing than merely addressing over 4GB of RAM, the terms itself meaning the length of the registers. Having registers twice as big and twice the numbers as the previous generation, the A7 is a desktop class beast for it's 1 watt power envelope. Going 64 bits was the best way to push further the ARM platform and eventually every device will be 64 bit. Apple does it right to be an early adopter.
Third, too bad Android only wins synthetic benchmark, this picture doesn't translate in real life application like browsing and games. This is were you realize that apps won't necessary benefit from adding more core to a CPU
No, Samsung is the only manufacturer Apple relies on ARM chips. Apple initially used PortalPlayer's ARM chips in earlier iPod, but switched to Samsung's custom ARM based SOC's since 2006. Samsung collaborated with Intrinsity go beyond 1Ghz in 2010.
No, there is absolutely no need to go 64bit on mobile ends. It makes sense however for Samsung to develop 64bit since they already make laptops powered by ARM chips.
No, you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
A 64-bit processor isn't a big deal unless the device has > 4GB of RAM.
That's not really true. 64-bit processors have wider datapaths and registers which can make a number of computations faster. Also, the ARM v8 instructions (i.e. the ones Apple is now targeting) add a range of other features:
Yeah I was thinking...Android I don't believe even supports 64-bit processing so whats the use? And, I don't believe there to be any kind of developer kit to make things 64-bit on Android.
I dont understand this move by Samsung, they just released the new Note and 10" Tablet last week, and today they say.. but we will have 64 bit version next year. What is there supposed to tell consumers interested in buying a Samsung Note and 10" Tablet?
Was this a wise business move or did they just shoot themselves in the foot by telling consumers to wait for the next update?
Samsung "pledges". Really? Don't they have to have an OS that's 64 bit first? Google hasn't released a 64 bit version of Android and they have have one out about 6 months before Samsung can start shipping their 64 bit smartphones. Unless they still operate the thing in 32 bit mode and just ship a 64 bit processor just to be able to say they have 64 bit.
You do know the S4 (among other Samsung phones) was caught cheating on benchmarks. The performance displayed on the benchmarks is nowhere near the performance in actual day to day use.
Right now, 64 bit, even with recompiled apps and a 64 bit OS wont be a significant difference above 32 bit, but in the future it will, so it's a great idea to lay that groundwork now.
Samsung "pledges". Really? Don't they have to have an OS that's 64 bit first? Google hasn't released a 64 bit version of Android and they have have one out about 6 months before Samsung can start shipping their 64 bit smartphones. Unless they still operate the thing in 32 bit mode and just ship a 64 bit processor just to be able to say they have 64 bit.
Oh great, here comes the 64 bit processor race. Because we all need to open Instagram or Facebook *that* much faster in our daily lives. Sigh.
64 bit will help out the gamers on an iPhone, but the reason it is critically important and will make a difference is because it will boost the performance of iPads. Almost certain the iPads will be getting a CPU upgrade in the next month or so. For Apple shareholders, this will be important. The tablet market in the long run is the holy grail. The tablet market will expand more slowly and for a much longer period of time and whoever wins the tablet market will own the computer market. In the long term, Microsoft is in serious trouble because they don't have a mobile platform.
Nonsense. The 5S is a 'real' upgrade in every sense of the word.
Dramatically faster performance
First 64 bit phone
Integral fingerprint sensor
Motion coprocessor
Dramatic camera improvements
That's about as real as it gets (unless you're shallow enough to think that the only thing that matters is the case).
I think a lot of people don't understand what an upgrade actually is. The internal improvements of the 5s were much greater than I was expecting (on an annual release cycle, the processor gains for iPhone have been, and remain, remarkable).
The thing I'm most interested in is the Motion coprocessor, mostly because I can't really envisage what such a thing is for. That excites me though, since finding out what people make it do is going to be very interesting.
No, Samsung is the only manufacturer Apple relies on ARM chips. Apple initially used PortalPlayer's ARM chips in earlier iPod, but switched to Samsung's custom ARM based SOC's since 2006. Samsung collaborated with Intrinsity go beyond 1Ghz in 2010.
No, there is absolutely no need to go 64bit on mobile ends. It makes sense however for Samsung to develop 64bit since they already make laptops powered by ARM chips.
No, you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
You got all wrong, Apple is also doing business with TSMC. Apple initially invested in ARM and licence ARM design ever since the Newton back in the early 90. Intrinsity was the R&D shop for Samsung ARM processor until Apple bought them in 2010, and now part of the internal team at Apple responsible for the Ax and Mx development. Beside saying there is absolutely no need for 64 bit on mobile is as dump as Bill Gate infamous quote: 640ko is more than enough for anyone. I'm pretty sure Apple internal developers already put the 64 bit CPU in good use for video and image processing on iOS.
Apple already got a taste of Samsung's skills last year and it just plain sucked the value out of Apple. Apple got caught with it's pants down. Samsung smartphone sales went through the roof while iPhone sales went into the toilet.
can you point me to the data that shows that iPhone sales ever went down?
Nonsense. The 5S is a 'real' upgrade in every sense of the word.
Dramatically faster performance
First 64 bit phone
Integral fingerprint sensor
Motion coprocessor
Dramatic camera improvements
That's about as real as it gets (unless you're shallow enough to think that the only thing that matters is the case).
Agreed. I would also add to the list the fact that Apple is giving iWork away for free on iOS. Watch out Microsoft, your cash cow might get mad cow disease.
It's funny how something like going to a 64 bit operating system without a hitch can be dismissed as meh. Apple even showed an awesome game ready to go on day one of sales.
Is everyone forgetting how big a deal it was for Microsoft to transition from 32 bit to 64 bit with vista? And they botched it big time.
Not to mention that 64 bit is going to be very important for tablets. iPad and iPad specific software are going to continue dominating the market.
Beside Android is currently years away from being a 64bit OS, the Linux kernel and userland needs to be ported first and than the whole Dalvik VM will all its library needs to be ported.
The Linux kernel has run on multiple 64-bit architectures for years, since the 2.6 days at least. Of course, there will be some work involved in porting to ARMv8, but Linaro has already started on that. The first bit of support was merged into Linux 3.7 almost a year ago.
Many of the low-level user-space libraries on Android are shared with common Linux distributions and already support 64-bit. I suspect the only real sticking points would be bionic (Android's libc) and the Dalvik VM. The rest of userspace is normal C++ which should be easy to recompile.
Agreed. I would also add to the list the fact that Apple is giving iWork away for free on iOS. Watch out Microsoft, your cash cow might get mad cow disease.
Apple has iWork for free via iCloud. While this is good, I think they would be more effective if they make a free native Windows and Mac OS X version which can only save to iCloud for storage. This will help drive sales for iOS devices further.
Second, 64 bit is part of a roadmap for the future, with almost no benefit today. This is true for both Samsung and Apple, but Samsung has reached the critical limit before Apple. That's because their current phones ship with 3GB RAM, almost the 4GB limit. iPhone 5s ships with only 2GB RAM (iPhone 5 has 1GB). Read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57602372-94/the-real-reasons-apples-64-bit-a7-chip-makes-sense/
The second is not so much a roadmap for the future in regard to Apple. iOS7, released next week I believe, will be compiled as 32 & 64bit. Obviously, can only run 64bit on the 5S. In addition, Apple has also already set up the developer code with the ability to port their apps to both 32 & 64 bit in one package. Normally, this is a lengthy process but Apple sped up this process so it does it rather quickly and thus no reason for developers not to recompile and offer 32/64bit versions of their apps right away.
As far as the third, it has been proven that Samsung added code to run the processor and a much faster speed when benchmarking. While the processor is capable of running at those speeds, it does not do so in normal processing. Runs much slower. My guess is that the phone would overheat of have a very short battery life to run at those speeds. This is what Apple always had an edge and by engineering the device, software and developer code can pull the best performance with less "specs".
The Linux kernel has run on multiple 64-bit architectures for years, since the 2.6 days at least. Of course, there will be some work involved in porting to ARMv8, but Linaro has already started on that. The first bit of support was merged into Linux 3.7 almost a year ago.
Many of the low-level user-space libraries on Android are shared with common Linux distributions and already support 64-bit. I suspect the only real sticking points would be bionic (Android's libc) and the Dalvik VM. The rest of userspace is normal C++ which should be easy to recompile.
Agree, Linux kernel as being ported to 64bit many years ago. But this is not the case for the Android fork Google is working on. Beside compiling the OS and libs for 64bit is only the iceberg tips, a lot is still missing right now in Linux for supporting multiple architecture binary like OSX and iOS is doing.
Surprised they didn't announce a 65-bit processor... 'Cause that extra bit would make it THAT MUCH better than Apple's puny little girly-man of a 64-bit processor.
LOL...
Correct me if I am wrong... but didn't another popular phone manufacturer have co-CEOs?
Comments
First, Samsung is one of the mfg Apple uses for producing their proprietary ARM custom chip, beside Apple bought few years ago the R&D teams reponsible for Samsung ARM development, ever since Samsung are using generic and wildly available ARM + GPU design.
Second, there is a lot more to go with 64bit computing than merely addressing over 4GB of RAM, the terms itself meaning the length of the registers. Having registers twice as big and twice the numbers as the previous generation, the A7 is a desktop class beast for it's 1 watt power envelope. Going 64 bits was the best way to push further the ARM platform and eventually every device will be 64 bit. Apple does it right to be an early adopter.
Third, too bad Android only wins synthetic benchmark, this picture doesn't translate in real life application like browsing and games. This is were you realize that apps won't necessary benefit from adding more core to a CPU
No, Samsung is the only manufacturer Apple relies on ARM chips. Apple initially used PortalPlayer's ARM chips in earlier iPod, but switched to Samsung's custom ARM based SOC's since 2006. Samsung collaborated with Intrinsity go beyond 1Ghz in 2010.
No, there is absolutely no need to go 64bit on mobile ends. It makes sense however for Samsung to develop 64bit since they already make laptops powered by ARM chips.
No, you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
A 64-bit processor isn't a big deal unless the device has > 4GB of RAM.
That's not really true. 64-bit processors have wider datapaths and registers which can make a number of computations faster. Also, the ARM v8 instructions (i.e. the ones Apple is now targeting) add a range of other features:
http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf
Yeah I was thinking...Android I don't believe even supports 64-bit processing so whats the use? And, I don't believe there to be any kind of developer kit to make things 64-bit on Android.
64 bit Java byte code?
I dont understand this move by Samsung, they just released the new Note and 10" Tablet last week, and today they say.. but we will have 64 bit version next year. What is there supposed to tell consumers interested in buying a Samsung Note and 10" Tablet?
Was this a wise business move or did they just shoot themselves in the foot by telling consumers to wait for the next update?
Remember their growing pains around the switch of OSX to 64-bit? Universal binaries vs. 32-bit binaries?
not really..can you refresh my memory. which growing pains exactly?
Third, benchmarks show that A7 is twice as fast as A6, which puts it around the same performance as today's Galaxy S4: http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2013/03/samsung-galaxy-s-4-benchmarks/
You do know the S4 (among other Samsung phones) was caught cheating on benchmarks. The performance displayed on the benchmarks is nowhere near the performance in actual day to day use.
One note, though, apparently ARMv8 architecture was made to be backwards compatible with 32 bit seamlessly, so that shouldn't be something that Android has to spend a significant amount of time on. And most people here are right, you will only notice a huge benefit in gaming.
Right now, 64 bit, even with recompiled apps and a 64 bit OS wont be a significant difference above 32 bit, but in the future it will, so it's a great idea to lay that groundwork now.
Samsung "pledges". Really? Don't they have to have an OS that's 64 bit first? Google hasn't released a 64 bit version of Android and they have have one out about 6 months before Samsung can start shipping their 64 bit smartphones. Unless they still operate the thing in 32 bit mode and just ship a 64 bit processor just to be able to say they have 64 bit.
dont forget about the tools and NDK.
Nonsense. The 5S is a 'real' upgrade in every sense of the word.
Dramatically faster performance
First 64 bit phone
Integral fingerprint sensor
Motion coprocessor
Dramatic camera improvements
That's about as real as it gets (unless you're shallow enough to think that the only thing that matters is the case).
Oh great, here comes the 64 bit processor race. Because we all need to open Instagram or Facebook *that* much faster in our daily lives. Sigh.
64 bit will help out the gamers on an iPhone, but the reason it is critically important and will make a difference is because it will boost the performance of iPads. Almost certain the iPads will be getting a CPU upgrade in the next month or so. For Apple shareholders, this will be important. The tablet market in the long run is the holy grail. The tablet market will expand more slowly and for a much longer period of time and whoever wins the tablet market will own the computer market. In the long term, Microsoft is in serious trouble because they don't have a mobile platform.
Nonsense. The 5S is a 'real' upgrade in every sense of the word.
Dramatically faster performance
First 64 bit phone
Integral fingerprint sensor
Motion coprocessor
Dramatic camera improvements
That's about as real as it gets (unless you're shallow enough to think that the only thing that matters is the case).
I think a lot of people don't understand what an upgrade actually is. The internal improvements of the 5s were much greater than I was expecting (on an annual release cycle, the processor gains for iPhone have been, and remain, remarkable).
The thing I'm most interested in is the Motion coprocessor, mostly because I can't really envisage what such a thing is for. That excites me though, since finding out what people make it do is going to be very interesting.
No, Samsung is the only manufacturer Apple relies on ARM chips. Apple initially used PortalPlayer's ARM chips in earlier iPod, but switched to Samsung's custom ARM based SOC's since 2006. Samsung collaborated with Intrinsity go beyond 1Ghz in 2010.
No, there is absolutely no need to go 64bit on mobile ends. It makes sense however for Samsung to develop 64bit since they already make laptops powered by ARM chips.
No, you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
You got all wrong, Apple is also doing business with TSMC. Apple initially invested in ARM and licence ARM design ever since the Newton back in the early 90. Intrinsity was the R&D shop for Samsung ARM processor until Apple bought them in 2010, and now part of the internal team at Apple responsible for the Ax and Mx development. Beside saying there is absolutely no need for 64 bit on mobile is as dump as Bill Gate infamous quote: 640ko is more than enough for anyone. I'm pretty sure Apple internal developers already put the 64 bit CPU in good use for video and image processing on iOS.
Apple already got a taste of Samsung's skills last year and it just plain sucked the value out of Apple. Apple got caught with it's pants down. Samsung smartphone sales went through the roof while iPhone sales went into the toilet.
can you point me to the data that shows that iPhone sales ever went down?
Nonsense. The 5S is a 'real' upgrade in every sense of the word.
Dramatically faster performance
First 64 bit phone
Integral fingerprint sensor
Motion coprocessor
Dramatic camera improvements
That's about as real as it gets (unless you're shallow enough to think that the only thing that matters is the case).
Agreed. I would also add to the list the fact that Apple is giving iWork away for free on iOS. Watch out Microsoft, your cash cow might get mad cow disease.
It's funny how something like going to a 64 bit operating system without a hitch can be dismissed as meh. Apple even showed an awesome game ready to go on day one of sales.
Is everyone forgetting how big a deal it was for Microsoft to transition from 32 bit to 64 bit with vista? And they botched it big time.
Not to mention that 64 bit is going to be very important for tablets. iPad and iPad specific software are going to continue dominating the market.
Beside Android is currently years away from being a 64bit OS, the Linux kernel and userland needs to be ported first and than the whole Dalvik VM will all its library needs to be ported.
The Linux kernel has run on multiple 64-bit architectures for years, since the 2.6 days at least. Of course, there will be some work involved in porting to ARMv8, but Linaro has already started on that. The first bit of support was merged into Linux 3.7 almost a year ago.
Many of the low-level user-space libraries on Android are shared with common Linux distributions and already support 64-bit. I suspect the only real sticking points would be bionic (Android's libc) and the Dalvik VM. The rest of userspace is normal C++ which should be easy to recompile.
Agreed. I would also add to the list the fact that Apple is giving iWork away for free on iOS. Watch out Microsoft, your cash cow might get mad cow disease.
Apple has iWork for free via iCloud. While this is good, I think they would be more effective if they make a free native Windows and Mac OS X version which can only save to iCloud for storage. This will help drive sales for iOS devices further.
A couple of things...
First, don't bash Samsung for making junk. Why? The A7 is made by Samung, at least in part if not entirely: http://************/2013/07/31/apples-upcoming-a7-iphone-chip-will-have-samsung-components-code-inside-ios-7-reveals/
Second, 64 bit is part of a roadmap for the future, with almost no benefit today. This is true for both Samsung and Apple, but Samsung has reached the critical limit before Apple. That's because their current phones ship with 3GB RAM, almost the 4GB limit. iPhone 5s ships with only 2GB RAM (iPhone 5 has 1GB). Read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57602372-94/the-real-reasons-apples-64-bit-a7-chip-makes-sense/
Third, benchmarks show that A7 is twice as fast as A6, which puts it around the same performance as today's Galaxy S4: http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2013/03/samsung-galaxy-s-4-benchmarks/
The second is not so much a roadmap for the future in regard to Apple. iOS7, released next week I believe, will be compiled as 32 & 64bit. Obviously, can only run 64bit on the 5S. In addition, Apple has also already set up the developer code with the ability to port their apps to both 32 & 64 bit in one package. Normally, this is a lengthy process but Apple sped up this process so it does it rather quickly and thus no reason for developers not to recompile and offer 32/64bit versions of their apps right away.
As far as the third, it has been proven that Samsung added code to run the processor and a much faster speed when benchmarking. While the processor is capable of running at those speeds, it does not do so in normal processing. Runs much slower. My guess is that the phone would overheat of have a very short battery life to run at those speeds. This is what Apple always had an edge and by engineering the device, software and developer code can pull the best performance with less "specs".
The Linux kernel has run on multiple 64-bit architectures for years, since the 2.6 days at least. Of course, there will be some work involved in porting to ARMv8, but Linaro has already started on that. The first bit of support was merged into Linux 3.7 almost a year ago.
Many of the low-level user-space libraries on Android are shared with common Linux distributions and already support 64-bit. I suspect the only real sticking points would be bionic (Android's libc) and the Dalvik VM. The rest of userspace is normal C++ which should be easy to recompile.
Agree, Linux kernel as being ported to 64bit many years ago. But this is not the case for the Android fork Google is working on. Beside compiling the OS and libs for 64bit is only the iceberg tips, a lot is still missing right now in Linux for supporting multiple architecture binary like OSX and iOS is doing.
LOL...
Correct me if I am wrong... but didn't another popular phone manufacturer have co-CEOs?