People can argue whether or not Samsung, TSMC or another party will build the next A Series chip until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it relevant.
What is relevant (and also happens to be 100% true) are the following facts:
- The A7 is the worlds most advanced, most powerful and efficient mobile SoC you can get.
- The reason the A7 can lay claim to this title is due to the fact that Apple is far ahead of Qualcomm and even ARM when it comes to designing processors.
- Samsung still has yet to deliver any custom designed SoC (or even announce one).
- Samsung has to to rely on Qualcomm SoC's for their high-end devices as they outperform Exynos.
- Apple has not only beat veryone to 64bit, but they are in a position to be 100% 64bit in only 2 years and have a smooth transition while doing so.
- Samsung is in no position to dictate when they will be able to go 64bit since they only control half of their product (the hardware). And no, It's highly unlikely Tizen will be 64bit.
Wrong on every level.
Is the a7 the most advanced? Yes. More efficient? Yes. Core vs core the most powerful? Yes. is the iphone 5s the fastest phone available? Yes.
Cant wait until apple cuts all orders from samsung. Will be hilarious to see them file for bankrupcy
Huh, bankruptcy? It's a conglomerate, with revenue close to $300B. Half a trillion in assets. Over 400,000 employees. I don't think a single client will make a dent in their operation.
Maybe you just wanted to your first post to be the first. Well, you're the 1
*hint* To use 2 different foundries for one SoC is highly unrealistic. You have to design 2 different SoCs to do this. You cant just take your tapeout from Samsung and walk to TSMC with it.
A more realistic (and more secure for Apple) is to continue use Samsung for A7 and under SoCs and use TSMC for A8 and above. Apple could even do A7X on TSCM and A7 with Samsung.
But Apple really needs to dump Samsung. Samsung got the head up on 64bit A7 because they manufactured it 6 month ago. Its not good when your biggest competitor with a habit to copy things have the blueprints for Apple's roadmap because they sell parts/manufacture stuff for Apple. -- There are some things in IT history that is significant but people dont know how important they are. For example NexTStep. This have turned out to be the most important piece of software in IT history. The whole foundation to todays mobile revolution is because of Unix and NexTStep.
The other thing was when Steve decided to start to manufacture Apple's own SoCs. Apple can now put stuff into their own SoCs that they need/want. Like the A5 DSP for Siri or the Security enclave on the A7. The security enclave will be a huge problem to implement on Android where most customers buy on price. For example Samsung flagship phones even use different SoCs depending on where in the world you buy it. Samsung could put a security enclave in their own SoC but millions of their stuff use QualComm.
Point being: Apple needs to control its destiny. They should buy their own foundry.
(And Apple should start to sell Android iPhones. Why do Apple care. They make the money on the hardware. Apple could sell at least 10-20% more phones. Free money.)
(And Apple should start to sell Android iPhones. Why do Apple care. They make the money on the hardware. Apple could sell at least 10-20% more phones. Free money.)
That is such a stupid idea I'm not even going to explain why.
Apple knows it has to move away from Samsung in order to gain a lead in processor technology and features. I see this being one of their biggest advantages. Software is easy and quick to copy, hardware is not.
Not really. Samsung is the best at manufacturing and some of their products.
But the galaxy line? Only for ignorant people. That's nothing you can do about it. They have inferior devices with higher prices and sell them based on advertising alone. Inferior device for inferior people. Well done, actually.
Cant wait until apple cuts all orders from samsung. Will be hilarious to see them file for bankrupcy
That division was originally a USA company Samsung bought and is still making parts in the USA. So what you are wishing for here is that more US based workers be put on the A-Z line. Nice guy you are.
…reality was that Jobs gave it to Schmidt to have a friend in charge of the competition. No one would keep up with iOS otherwise.
That’s absolutely psychotic and contradictory to absolutely everything we know about the history of this industry. I’m surprised I’m the first to reply to it.
Originally Posted by wizard69
That division was originally a USA company Samsung bought and is still making parts in the USA. So what you are wishing for here is that more US based workers be put on the A-Z line. Nice guy you are.
I truly don’t believe he has any specific animosity against workers of any line. War, however, always seems to end up punishing those who’ve little stake in it.
And who knows, without Apple’s revenue, Samsung may be force to sell said plant. To… Apple?
Samsung aren't dependent on Apple's semiconductor manufacturing orders, so I fail to see what your point is, apart from being some Apple fanboy, anti-Samsung fantasy.
Well yeah they are in a sense, at one time it was suggested that Apple was 80% of Sansungs entire foundry capacity and that was well before iOS devices took off in popularity. On the other hand I have to agree with you Apples business would likely be easy to replace for Samsung.
Back in the real world, losing Apple's orders would be painful for Samsung's Foundry Business Unit (yeah, like most large modern companies, Samsung isn't a single business entity) but so far it appears that Apple will be the one feeling pain, as Samsung appear to deliver for Apple, time and time again, when it comes to actually being able to produce working SoCs in the quantities that Apple needs.
I have to agree here, Samsungs pain will be short term. In the end delivery of product is what makes or breaks a relationship.
However Samsung have had enough prior warning to allow them to get replacement business for an in-demand resource. If Samsung's 20nm process works (no reason why it doesn't) then there will be customers who demand the latest processes lining up to use it.
Any foundry be it high tech silicon or old fashion iron needs to continually look for new customers, so I would imagine that Samsung has been doing this all along. The only real question here is how much off Samsungs production capacity is dedicated to Apple. At one time it was rumored that at least part of the plant was built in partnership with a client. That client was never mentioned but if 80% of your capacity goes to support Apple it is a fair guess who that partner is.
Actually this makes lots of senses, not that would not like to see apple pull all its business from Samsung to teach them lesson about who is paying their bills. However, Apple took a large risk putting all it production in Samsung in the first place. The same would be true for putting it all in TSMC. It smart to split the business.
I've been saying this for weeks now, Apple may have no choice but to split production between two suppliers to keep up with demand and to reduce risk. The growth in iOS products is not slowing down, if anything it is getting to be much more intense.
Plus it allows apple to pit each supplier against one another.
That isn't really good business practice in this case.
Now Mothership Samsung has to decide is it worth losing apple all together to allow the Samsung phone guys insight into apples doing as well as selling internally at the same price they sell to Apple. It makes the dynamics more complicated for Samsung that is for sure.
It is an entirely different division for Samsung. As far as insight goes Samsung isn't even using its own chips in some products. Beyond that the insight as to what is needed in a SoC comes from looking towards the future and integrating features wanted in the phone into Silicon. The SoC is literally the printed circuit board of the 1980's.
That’s absolutely psychotic and contradictory to absolutely everything we know about the history of this industry. I’m surprised I’m the first to reply to it.
I got fed up with replying to single-digid IQ posts.
I would like to see Apple build some venture in NY in the good old USA.
I'd like to see Apple build in the USA too, but not New York. NY is just an evil place to run a business, too much political corruption, excessively high taxes, poor maintenance of infra structure, political promises that are never keep, a significant number of stupid people even though we supposedly have good schools and a host of other ills.
Believe me I've lived in NY all my life and it isn't getting any better. They (the political establishment) try to tell you it is getting better but taxes go up every year and they refuse to do the rational thing which is down size government and cut welfare support.
*hint*
To use 2 different foundries for one SoC is highly unrealistic. You have to design 2 different SoCs to do this. You cant just take your tapeout from Samsung and walk to TSMC with it.
While true for a small operation, Apple operates under a different set of rules. Think of it this way to hand any production over to TSMC they have to "port" the chip to TSMC tools and processes. If they are even considering TSMC this work has already been done.
The bigger issue is that Apples SoC demand aren't slowing up, they may need two suppliers just to keep a comfortable supply of chips available.
A more realistic (and more secure for Apple) is to continue use Samsung for A7 and under SoCs and use TSMC for A8 and above. Apple could even do A7X on TSCM and A7 with Samsung.
That is actually a less secure path for Apple! Let's say for example a tornado hits Texas near the Samsung plant, doesn't even need to be a direct hit, that could wipe out weeks of production. It would have major implications for Apple. Just look at what the flooding in Thailand did to hard disk supplies awhile ago.
The simple concept of having too many eggs in one basket applies here. The reality is Apple has the chip demand to go with two suppliers without having a significant impact on costs. When you sell close to a hundred million of something a year you don't have the economic problems of a smaller operation when it comes to sourcing parts.
But Apple really needs to dump Samsung. Samsung got the head up on 64bit A7 because they manufactured it 6 month ago. Its not good when your biggest competitor with a habit to copy things have the blueprints for Apple's roadmap because they sell parts/manufacture stuff for Apple.
There is no evidence of this at all.
--
There are some things in IT history that is significant but people dont know how important they are.
For example NexTStep. This have turned out to be the most important piece of software in IT history. The whole foundation to todays mobile revolution is because of Unix and NexTStep.
The other thing was when Steve decided to start to manufacture Apple's own SoCs. Apple can now put stuff into their own SoCs that they need/want. Like the A5 DSP for Siri or the Security enclave on the A7. The security enclave will be a huge problem to implement on Android where most customers buy on price. For example Samsung flagship phones even use different SoCs depending on where in the world you buy it. Samsung could put a security enclave in their own SoC but millions of their stuff use QualComm.
If Samsung goes with QualComm, then they likely have lost interest in doing their own SoC.
Point being:
Apple needs to control its destiny. They should buy their own foundry.
(And Apple should start to sell Android iPhones. Why do Apple care. They make the money on the hardware. Apple could sell at least 10-20% more phones. Free money.)
I admire your persistence TS, but don't you get tired of continuously being proved wrong?! Time after time... Maybe think about cutting your losses...
Thanks, two posts; probability says you’re not a “first time poster, long time reader” and just a returning banned account.
If you cared at all about being right–or were in the right yourself–you would have actually proven me wrong instead of simply saying I was wrong. Since you’re the time to enjoy gloating about such things, of course, it makes sense that you would have done this. As you didn’t, it’s safe to say you don’t have a clue whether I’m right or wrong and simply want to see me in the negative.
Not really. Samsung is the best at manufacturing and some of their products.
But the galaxy line? Only for ignorant people. That's nothing you can do about it. They have inferior devices with higher prices and sell them based on advertising alone. Inferior device for inferior people. Well done, actually.
Best at manufacturing ?!
Taiwan's companies are better than Samsung at manufacturing technology and quality.
That’s absolutely psychotic and contradictory to absolutely everything we know about the history of this industry. I’m surprised I’m the first to reply to it.
Something's posted here are to ignorant to even bother with a comment.
I truly don’t believe he has any specific animosity against workers of any line. War, however, always seems to end up punishing those who’ve little stake in it.
And who knows, without Apple’s revenue, Samsung may be force to sell said plant. To… Apple?
You know what I object to hear is the idea that this is some sort of war between Apple and Samsungs foundry division. I don't buy that at all! Rather you have companies pitching their next processes and you have Apple evaluating them. It is tough for all companies involved, nobody wants to loose a massive customer, but bleeding edge processes are hard to do. In the end those that can get the work.
On top of that I'm of the opinion that Apple needs to look out for number one and avoid the all eggs in one basket problem. They need a two track program for their chip supplies.
It is tough for all companies involved, nobody wants to loose a massive customer, but bleeding edge processes are hard to do. In the end those that can get the work.
I’m glad that Apple hasn’t shot itself in the foot and abandoned Samsung if they’re the only company that can make the chips Apple needs. But the second someone else can make them, we need weaning.
Comments
People can argue whether or not Samsung, TSMC or another party will build the next A Series chip until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it relevant.
What is relevant (and also happens to be 100% true) are the following facts:
- The A7 is the worlds most advanced, most powerful and efficient mobile SoC you can get.
- The reason the A7 can lay claim to this title is due to the fact that Apple is far ahead of Qualcomm and even ARM when it comes to designing processors.
- Samsung still has yet to deliver any custom designed SoC (or even announce one).
- Samsung has to to rely on Qualcomm SoC's for their high-end devices as they outperform Exynos.
- Apple has not only beat veryone to 64bit, but they are in a position to be 100% 64bit in only 2 years and have a smooth transition while doing so.
- Samsung is in no position to dictate when they will be able to go 64bit since they only control half of their product (the hardware). And no, It's highly unlikely Tizen will be 64bit.
Wrong on every level.
Is the a7 the most advanced? Yes. More efficient? Yes. Core vs core the most powerful? Yes. is the iphone 5s the fastest phone available? Yes.
He is right on every level.
Wrong on every level.
You can always spot the trolls when they can't accept facts.
Huh, bankruptcy? It's a conglomerate, with revenue close to $300B. Half a trillion in assets. Over 400,000 employees. I don't think a single client will make a dent in their operation.
Maybe you just wanted to your first post to be the first. Well, you're the 1
To use 2 different foundries for one SoC is highly unrealistic. You have to design 2 different SoCs to do this. You cant just take your tapeout from Samsung and walk to TSMC with it.
A more realistic (and more secure for Apple) is to continue use Samsung for A7 and under SoCs and use TSMC for A8 and above. Apple could even do A7X on TSCM and A7 with Samsung.
But Apple really needs to dump Samsung. Samsung got the head up on 64bit A7 because they manufactured it 6 month ago. Its not good when your biggest competitor with a habit to copy things have the blueprints for Apple's roadmap because they sell parts/manufacture stuff for Apple.
--
There are some things in IT history that is significant but people dont know how important they are.
For example NexTStep. This have turned out to be the most important piece of software in IT history. The whole foundation to todays mobile revolution is because of Unix and NexTStep.
The other thing was when Steve decided to start to manufacture Apple's own SoCs. Apple can now put stuff into their own SoCs that they need/want. Like the A5 DSP for Siri or the Security enclave on the A7. The security enclave will be a huge problem to implement on Android where most customers buy on price. For example Samsung flagship phones even use different SoCs depending on where in the world you buy it. Samsung could put a security enclave in their own SoC but millions of their stuff use QualComm.
Point being:
Apple needs to control its destiny. They should buy their own foundry.
(And Apple should start to sell Android iPhones. Why do Apple care. They make the money on the hardware. Apple could sell at least 10-20% more phones. Free money.)
That is such a stupid idea I'm not even going to explain why.
FUD!
Apple knows it has to move away from Samsung in order to gain a lead in processor technology and features. I see this being one of their biggest advantages. Software is easy and quick to copy, hardware is not.
Not really. Samsung is the best at manufacturing and some of their products.
But the galaxy line? Only for ignorant people. That's nothing you can do about it. They have inferior devices with higher prices and sell them based on advertising alone. Inferior device for inferior people. Well done, actually.
Ignorant; inferior?
What are your educational qualifications?
That division was originally a USA company Samsung bought and is still making parts in the USA. So what you are wishing for here is that more US based workers be put on the A-Z line. Nice guy you are.
That’s absolutely psychotic and contradictory to absolutely everything we know about the history of this industry. I’m surprised I’m the first to reply to it.
I truly don’t believe he has any specific animosity against workers of any line. War, however, always seems to end up punishing those who’ve little stake in it.
And who knows, without Apple’s revenue, Samsung may be force to sell said plant. To… Apple?
It is an entirely different division for Samsung. As far as insight goes Samsung isn't even using its own chips in some products. Beyond that the insight as to what is needed in a SoC comes from looking towards the future and integrating features wanted in the phone into Silicon. The SoC is literally the printed circuit board of the 1980's.
I got fed up with replying to single-digid IQ posts.
Believe me I've lived in NY all my life and it isn't getting any better. They (the political establishment) try to tell you it is getting better but taxes go up every year and they refuse to do the rational thing which is down size government and cut welfare support.
Really? Everything he said can be backed up with a little research, you just have to honestly evaluate what you read.
While true for a small operation, Apple operates under a different set of rules. Think of it this way to hand any production over to TSMC they have to "port" the chip to TSMC tools and processes. If they are even considering TSMC this work has already been done.
The bigger issue is that Apples SoC demand aren't slowing up, they may need two suppliers just to keep a comfortable supply of chips available. That is actually a less secure path for Apple! Let's say for example a tornado hits Texas near the Samsung plant, doesn't even need to be a direct hit, that could wipe out weeks of production. It would have major implications for Apple. Just look at what the flooding in Thailand did to hard disk supplies awhile ago.
The simple concept of having too many eggs in one basket applies here. The reality is Apple has the chip demand to go with two suppliers without having a significant impact on costs. When you sell close to a hundred million of something a year you don't have the economic problems of a smaller operation when it comes to sourcing parts. There is no evidence of this at all. If Samsung goes with QualComm, then they likely have lost interest in doing their own SoC.
That is hysterical. ????????????????????????????
Thanks, two posts; probability says you’re not a “first time poster, long time reader” and just a returning banned account.
If you cared at all about being right–or were in the right yourself–you would have actually proven me wrong instead of simply saying I was wrong. Since you’re the time to enjoy gloating about such things, of course, it makes sense that you would have done this. As you didn’t, it’s safe to say you don’t have a clue whether I’m right or wrong and simply want to see me in the negative.
Best at manufacturing ?!
Taiwan's companies are better than Samsung at manufacturing technology and quality.
On top of that I'm of the opinion that Apple needs to look out for number one and avoid the all eggs in one basket problem. They need a two track program for their chip supplies.
I’m glad that Apple hasn’t shot itself in the foot and abandoned Samsung if they’re the only company that can make the chips Apple needs. But the second someone else can make them, we need weaning.