It’s called asking a question. Traditionally, one responds to a question; it’s just polite.
I don’t have a clue how prices in the UK fluctuate.
All I know, is that Apple used to sell the entry iMac at £595. £695. £799. Then 999 inc vat after the '2008' disaster economy...
then it was...£1045 (still with rust platters...and no DVD but we'll charge you £60 extra for it...) and then £1145 inc VAT.
What happened to the iMac being for the iMasses? The consumer king desktop computer. Sure, they had the ridiculously priced 'Special Edition' back then...but... Point being, they drove it down from it's launch price of just over a grand...and now it's in previous 'Pro' territory.
You can't have it both ways, Apple. You can't keep upping the price, lopping off features like upgradeable memory or losing the DVD (and yes, we know the arguments for and against that...blah, blah...) and removing dedicated graphics... and expect sales to remain in growth with a world economy on the edge.
ten % premium. Love it. 50%? Hmm... 100%? taking the p*ss. 3 times the entry price of a desktop pc? Really taking the p*ss.
Let's take a piece of string. £1210 to get an iMac with DVD player/entry model. Let's take a desktop pc at £399.
Let's say one is taking the p*ss. And the other is junk.
Let's take a pair of scissors and chop the difference. £695 inc VAT. That's not even half the price...but it's where I feel the entry iMac with a cheap ass 21 inch monitor and discrete gpu should be.
Heck, you USED to have 24 inch iMacs in the price range the current 21 inchers occupy...
The Mac Pro is the first "desktop" computer in about two decades that I actually consider buying. Perfect. But I've grown so used to Retina displays so I'm dreading having to use non retina displays again. They're like itching in the eyes with those big colour dot arrays...
I have a flag ship iMac. £2400 (put that into dollars folks...)
Still covet a Mac Pro with a retina display. Even as good as this display is...and it IS a good display!!!!....I'd love retina. It's hard to go back after an iPad retina.
I think they've nailed it with the Mac Pro. Cheap to assemble design?
The one problem with it...it begs the question, why bother with boutique designs like the iMac and Mini when the Pro is all of those things if you merely plug it into a studio display?
it's compact. And yet serviceable.
Wizard will be drooling... :P (Well, that's the point...IF they'd allow you to have one 'can' that you could spec with Mini, Imac or Pro specs...)
It makes more sense than the current desktop line up.
Should we send you a box is tissues because Apple releases something you can't afford? Go buy your 200£ Dell then and if that makes you happy then so be it.
Seeing as you have a box of tissues, I guess you'll have more use out of them than me. Apple kit is sexy, afterall...
I have the flagship iMac, you burk. Two iPhones. One iPad. Two previous Power Macs...plenty of Apple software, Adobe suite...etc etc.
Dell blah, blah. Try something new.
Just because I like Apple kit doesn't mean I can't be critical of their cool aid on desktop prices.
Badge of honour to all of those who love paying more for less on each round of iMac 'upgrades.'
Sadly I have to agree with the above. I'm really hoping Apple has learned it lesson here with respect to the high prices it charges for the various Mac products. It has become a bit of a joke lately, you often pay twice as much for half the performance with its desktop machines.
Aye, Wizard. Sadly.
There was a time when you got real value from an iMac or Mac Tower purchase. And they had them priced so there was something for 'everybody.' Whether consumer on a tighter budget or the *cough, 'Pro.'
8GB RAM $100 (I'll leave this at the base because it can be bought cheaper elsewhere)
dual W9000 (or 2013 equivalent) - this depends on AMD and not the retail prices at all. Since AMD is in bad shape, I reckon they will have got a two for one deal and the retail price of dual W9000 will be ~$3000-4000 so wholesale about $2500
1TB SSD = $900 ($0.90/GB wholesale)
the rest of the parts I estimate at $300
$6400 plus 40% margins = $10,690 and 64GB RAM $800 from a 3rd party so maxed out could be ~$11.5k. The big unknown here is AMD's GPUs as it could make it go as high as $15k but AMD has $359m in assets after deducting liabilities. They made a loss of $74m the last reported quarter. If that keeps up for another 4 quarters or so, they could start to have liabilities that exceed their assets and it doesn't mean immediate bankruptcy but it's the start of it. If Apple sells 250k Mac Pros in the quarter and the average wholesale price they pay AMD between all the GPU options is $800 (the lower end options are always the higher volume so the average comes way down) and AMD has a gross margin of 40%, they'd make $80m profit just from one customer. That alone would counter all their losses and keep them pretty healthy for the next year.
Yes, that's my feeling also. But it would be rare and risky if there's no configuration below $3000. And, honestly, I don't know how they could achieve that. They said "up to 12 cores", so it means they can save some money by putting a less powerful CPU in the entry model. However, "dual GPU" was announced as "standard", so this means the entry model will also have 2 GPUs. And it seems all models will have SSD storage.
In other words, the entry model will feature a basic Xeon, with two GPUs, and SSD storage. Can this be done at $2500?
I bet this will simply just be released like the iMacs were. You don't need a special event to release an updated Mac mini unless they were going to totally change the form factor of it. You're probably not going to see anything significant as far as speed increases go anyways. Why not just get the current Mac mini?
You mean the basic Intel mobile i7 one for 1116 EUR ( $1510 )? I hope you're not serious.
no MacBook Pro 17inch anymore... a forgotten MacPro division... iMac prices that rise despite everyone else falling and falling, even MacMinis cost a bloody fortune
Apple just WANTS to kill it's Mac division. Spin it off already. Let Apple be for consumers who want shiny pretty toys and let "Mac" be for the pros, ffs
All I know, is that Apple used to sell the entry iMac at £595. £695. £799. Then 999 inc vat after the ‘2008' disaster economy... then it was...£1045 (still with rust platters...and no DVD but we'll charge you £60 extra for it...) and then £1145 inc VAT.
Okay, thank you for clarifying that your point has nothing to do with the original argument.
Originally Posted by ZO
…MacMinis cost a bloody fortune
$599 is a fortune? Sounds like you need to just buy trash from another company.
Let Apple be for consumers who want shiny pretty toys and let "Mac" be for the pros, ffs
Coming from someone who listens to talk radio a lot, this is kind of one those batty ideas that I somewhat (not completely) agree with. I feel that even though I'm a consumer and not really a pro per say, when I visit the Apple Store and everyone has their shiny new iPhones, iPads, iPod touches, etc. I am the lone guy looking at the Mac mini connected to Thunderbolt display or was the lone guy looking at the 17" MacBook Pro. I could sometimes get looks at the rMBP but they were usually crowded around.
So maybe while Apple is making a killing off of the iGadgets, don't make too much supply of the Macs that are still selling so you can make a huge profit. Ah, who knows.
If the new Mac Pro doesn't surface at the October 22 meeting and/or the price for the entry level model comes in at over $3000, there's going to be a lot of ticked people.
If the new Mac Pro doesn't surface at the October 22 meeting and/or the price for the entry level model comes in at over $3000, there's going to be a lot of ticked people.
It will surface when it's ready.
There are a lot of moving parts here: Totally new assembly line, Mavericks, Final Cut Pro, TB2, 4K monitors, graphics cards.
It would be worse if it surfaced and we went through a debacle like the iMac introduction last year. Real pros will wait, talkers will talk.
And I could be wrong, but I doubt it starts much higher than the current price.
Whatever the SSDs and Graphics adds, the savings in materials and shipping will mostly offset.
If it really did reach $3000., it means that a whole new world has opened up for the Mini, and that could be exciting.
Comments
It’s called asking a question. Traditionally, one responds to a question; it’s just polite.
I don’t have a clue how prices in the UK fluctuate.
All I know, is that Apple used to sell the entry iMac at £595. £695. £799. Then 999 inc vat after the '2008' disaster economy...
then it was...£1045 (still with rust platters...and no DVD but we'll charge you £60 extra for it...) and then £1145 inc VAT.
What happened to the iMac being for the iMasses? The consumer king desktop computer. Sure, they had the ridiculously priced 'Special Edition' back then...but... Point being, they drove it down from it's launch price of just over a grand...and now it's in previous 'Pro' territory.
You can't have it both ways, Apple. You can't keep upping the price, lopping off features like upgradeable memory or losing the DVD (and yes, we know the arguments for and against that...blah, blah...) and removing dedicated graphics... and expect sales to remain in growth with a world economy on the edge.
ten % premium. Love it. 50%? Hmm... 100%? taking the p*ss. 3 times the entry price of a desktop pc? Really taking the p*ss.
Let's take a piece of string. £1210 to get an iMac with DVD player/entry model. Let's take a desktop pc at £399.
Let's say one is taking the p*ss. And the other is junk.
Let's take a pair of scissors and chop the difference. £695 inc VAT. That's not even half the price...but it's where I feel the entry iMac with a cheap ass 21 inch monitor and discrete gpu should be.
Heck, you USED to have 24 inch iMacs in the price range the current 21 inchers occupy...
What happened? Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon.
As for polite. Why not?
I do enjoy your hack and slay posts when people post stuff that reaches.
Lemon Bon Bon.
The Mac Pro is the first "desktop" computer in about two decades that I actually consider buying. Perfect. But I've grown so used to Retina displays so I'm dreading having to use non retina displays again. They're like itching in the eyes with those big colour dot arrays...
I have a flag ship iMac. £2400 (put that into dollars folks...)
Still covet a Mac Pro with a retina display. Even as good as this display is...and it IS a good display!!!!....I'd love retina. It's hard to go back after an iPad retina.
I think they've nailed it with the Mac Pro. Cheap to assemble design?
The one problem with it...it begs the question, why bother with boutique designs like the iMac and Mini when the Pro is all of those things if you merely plug it into a studio display?
it's compact. And yet serviceable.
Wizard will be drooling... :P (Well, that's the point...IF they'd allow you to have one 'can' that you could spec with Mini, Imac or Pro specs...)
It makes more sense than the current desktop line up.
Lemon Bon Bon.
...given sliding desktop sales.
Just make desktop an apple box or cylinder that you can spec.
Saves on expensive Imac production...or mini indifference.
Let the Apple customer decide. Be great for switchers too.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Should we send you a box is tissues because Apple releases something you can't afford? Go buy your 200£ Dell then and if that makes you happy then so be it.
Seeing as you have a box of tissues, I guess you'll have more use out of them than me. Apple kit is sexy, afterall...
I have the flagship iMac, you burk. Two iPhones. One iPad. Two previous Power Macs...plenty of Apple software, Adobe suite...etc etc.
Dell blah, blah. Try something new.
Just because I like Apple kit doesn't mean I can't be critical of their cool aid on desktop prices.
Badge of honour to all of those who love paying more for less on each round of iMac 'upgrades.'
Lemon Bon Bon.
The rate you're going is making everything here look cheap.
Why, thank you, Phil.
Lemon Bon Bon.
So bugger off to Win8 land if you think Apple pricing is so extortionate. You've been whinging on AI for years.
Says nht who's been whinging on AI for years with his endless diatribes and snotty nitpicking. You b*gger off and get something better.
He says. *politely.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Sadly I have to agree with the above. I'm really hoping Apple has learned it lesson here with respect to the high prices it charges for the various Mac products. It has become a bit of a joke lately, you often pay twice as much for half the performance with its desktop machines.
Aye, Wizard. Sadly.
There was a time when you got real value from an iMac or Mac Tower purchase. And they had them priced so there was something for 'everybody.' Whether consumer on a tighter budget or the *cough, 'Pro.'
Those days are long gone.
Lemon Bon Bon.
The entry iPad is the best value product they make.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Good value for the money. You are correct about that.
The top end model wholesale should be:
E5-2697v2 12-core $2614
8GB RAM $100 (I'll leave this at the base because it can be bought cheaper elsewhere)
dual W9000 (or 2013 equivalent) - this depends on AMD and not the retail prices at all. Since AMD is in bad shape, I reckon they will have got a two for one deal and the retail price of dual W9000 will be ~$3000-4000 so wholesale about $2500
1TB SSD = $900 ($0.90/GB wholesale)
the rest of the parts I estimate at $300
$6400 plus 40% margins = $10,690 and 64GB RAM $800 from a 3rd party so maxed out could be ~$11.5k. The big unknown here is AMD's GPUs as it could make it go as high as $15k but AMD has $359m in assets after deducting liabilities. They made a loss of $74m the last reported quarter. If that keeps up for another 4 quarters or so, they could start to have liabilities that exceed their assets and it doesn't mean immediate bankruptcy but it's the start of it. If Apple sells 250k Mac Pros in the quarter and the average wholesale price they pay AMD between all the GPU options is $800 (the lower end options are always the higher volume so the average comes way down) and AMD has a gross margin of 40%, they'd make $80m profit just from one customer. That alone would counter all their losses and keep them pretty healthy for the next year.
Yes, that's my feeling also. But it would be rare and risky if there's no configuration below $3000. And, honestly, I don't know how they could achieve that. They said "up to 12 cores", so it means they can save some money by putting a less powerful CPU in the entry model. However, "dual GPU" was announced as "standard", so this means the entry model will also have 2 GPUs. And it seems all models will have SSD storage.
In other words, the entry model will feature a basic Xeon, with two GPUs, and SSD storage. Can this be done at $2500?
I bet this will simply just be released like the iMacs were. You don't need a special event to release an updated Mac mini unless they were going to totally change the form factor of it. You're probably not going to see anything significant as far as speed increases go anyways. Why not just get the current Mac mini?
You mean the basic Intel mobile i7 one for 1116 EUR ( $1510 )? I hope you're not serious.
2,3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
4 GB DDR3 SDRAM
1 TB Serial-ATA-Festplatte mit 5400 U/Min.
Apple Wireless Keyboard - Deutsch
Apple Magic Mouse
AppleCare Protection Plan für Mac mini
no MacBook Pro 17inch anymore... a forgotten MacPro division... iMac prices that rise despite everyone else falling and falling, even MacMinis cost a bloody fortune
Apple just WANTS to kill it's Mac division. Spin it off already. Let Apple be for consumers who want shiny pretty toys and let "Mac" be for the pros, ffs
Okay, thank you for clarifying that your point has nothing to do with the original argument.
$599 is a fortune? Sounds like you need to just buy trash from another company.
Coming from someone who listens to talk radio a lot, this is kind of one those batty ideas that I somewhat (not completely) agree with. I feel that even though I'm a consumer and not really a pro per say, when I visit the Apple Store and everyone has their shiny new iPhones, iPads, iPod touches, etc. I am the lone guy looking at the Mac mini connected to Thunderbolt display or was the lone guy looking at the 17" MacBook Pro. I could sometimes get looks at the rMBP but they were usually crowded around.
So maybe while Apple is making a killing off of the iGadgets, don't make too much supply of the Macs that are still selling so you can make a huge profit. Ah, who knows.
$599 is a fortune? Sounds like you need to just buy trash from another company.
Nope. He's from Paris.
$1241 (916 EUR) for the basic model there. A fortune? Definitely.
2.5GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5
500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
4 Go de mémoire SDRAM DDR3
Apple Magic Mouse
Clavier sans fil Apple - Français
AppleCare Protection Plan pour Mac mini
Yes, thank you Mocseg. They're atrociously expensive
Touché
If the new Mac Pro doesn't surface at the October 22 meeting and/or the price for the entry level model comes in at over $3000, there's going to be a lot of ticked people.
If the new Mac Pro doesn't surface at the October 22 meeting and/or the price for the entry level model comes in at over $3000, there's going to be a lot of ticked people.
It will surface when it's ready.
There are a lot of moving parts here: Totally new assembly line, Mavericks, Final Cut Pro, TB2, 4K monitors, graphics cards.
It would be worse if it surfaced and we went through a debacle like the iMac introduction last year. Real pros will wait, talkers will talk.
And I could be wrong, but I doubt it starts much higher than the current price.
Whatever the SSDs and Graphics adds, the savings in materials and shipping will mostly offset.
If it really did reach $3000., it means that a whole new world has opened up for the Mini, and that could be exciting.