<strong>Wrong. Examine the packge contents on the Jag CDs with Pacifist -- iDVD is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Restore CDs that come with SuperDrive-equipped Macs, no?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?
iDVD is on the restore CD only but Apple has included a software restore application that allows you to get at particular applications on the CD easily.
Jaguar CDs do not include iDVD.
As the first post clearly stated, Apple isn't perfect but they certainly are doing a ton of good work to provide a system based on open standards. I find no fault on Apple's part providing cheap or free apps like the various iApps and tying some of the functionality to .mac Most of these are scriptable. If you want to connect iApp functionality to your own webDAV location...I suspect you could script something to accomplish this.
Anyway...I agree Apple is not remotely becoming MS with iApps or any other product.
[quote]Originally posted by zappy:
<strong>
What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?
This thread has degenerated into a rehash of the .Mac controversy, but I just wish to reinforce the original poster's comments. Concerning .Mac, at least Jobs was candid enough to admit that it was problematic to so many of us. And I think Apple has learned from that process, which is evidenced by the wonderful iLife announcement.
iLife is a real boon for Mac users. Apple has reengineered its iApps to provide improved functionality, yet they're still giving them away for free. Plus, Apple is also providing them in a convenient pacakage, along with iDVD, which is certainly worth $49 alone. The most significant part is that Apple seemingly gave into user pressure over external writers and really did the right thing in that regard. I was quite relieved and impressed by the announcement. The rumor sites only reported a quarter of the story here, and Apple has taught many a good lesson.
All the behind the scenes work is done by Apple already. If you want to export your own you need to write an iPhoto plug-in that knows specifically how you want it to talk to your webDAV server, what protocols you want to uses for those images to display under, incorporate the back-end so someone elses generic browser can see what you have etc...
You can do all those things already, none of the hooks are hidden. You just shouldn't expect to get the rock-star parking spot in Apples OS menu heirarchy, you get that in YOUR menu.
I wouldn't ever expect Apple to do your work to ensure that every possible webDAV server configuration/protocol set-up/back-end combination is compatible with their iApps and iDisk so that you could get a free ride on their code. Your desires need your elbow grease. If you like Apples defaults and accept all the little warts you correctly ID'ed, then you get it all for free. I see no room for complaint on this particular issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never said that I wanted Apple to do the work for me. In fact, if you read my earlier comments, I would be perfectly happy if Apple just throws up a warning message when I change the default location of the iDisk server and that message could say something like this, "Some services and programs may not work correctly when you change the iDisk location. For complete functionality, join the .mac network"
Yes, iPhoto may not work with my webDAV server (although I see no reason why not). As far as not getting the "rock-star" location, I suspect that it's a simple matter that you don't have the issue, so you can't imagine the difficulties.
Here's what I have at home: one linux server that handles the bulk of work (automating the house, mail server, webserver, etc.) Another server that is a 120GB RAID-5 (with spare disks) file server. With this combo, I have plenty of power and a place that all of my important software can sit and it's immune to disk crashes. Furthermore, I can put movies, songs, photos in a place that I can to from anywhere on the internet.
I have absolutely no use for the .mac services. However, I have noted that when I pointed my /etc/hosts to the address of my fileserver (192.168.0.x), I can get some very nice functionality out of the iDisk. All of a sudden, running the backup program works great and I can put files on my RAID server. I imagine I could do similar things with iCal. In fact, I could upload my calendar to my server and then use one of the nice PHP tools so that I can show my calendar on the web.
Here's the problem: the above setup works great when I'm on my internal network. The moment I go to another network, I run into problems. iDisk assumes that I'm going to contact the webDAV server over port 80. My ISP has blocked traffic on port 80, so I run my webDAV server on another port as well. There really isn't a great way to override that (well I could play with the routing tables...) Imagine how simple it would be if I could simply list where my iDisk server should point in some dialog box.
As I suggested, you probably don't have this problem, so you never really thought out the ramifications. The simplest analogy I can give you is imagine if Mail.app would only hook up to .mac rather than letting you type in the name of your POP/IMAP/SMTP server. Yes, you could fake it out by overriding <a href="http://www.mac.com"; target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> in your /etc/hosts file, but let's say that Apple stopped that from working. You might then be a bit angry that iPhoto only works with Mail.app for mailing, and you would quite rightly complain that an easy way to fix this would be to let you specify your own SMTP server in Mail.app.
FWIW, iPhoto, iCal, Safari, etc. as Cocoa apps have a relatively simple plug-in structure that accepts third party extensibility. An obvious example is PhotoToWeb's iPhoto plug-in that allows me to arrange, add copy, make slide shows, and publish my iPhoto pictures instead of Homepage or the built-in web exporter. AFAIK, Apple makes all these apps' plug-in structures accessible to third parties.
<strong>Your ideas have merit, I just think expecting Apple to allow users to re-map portions of the OS because they have neat ideas isn't a good idea.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Who said anything about remapping portions of the OS? All I want is a line in a file somewhere that reads something like this:
As is stands now, since they don't have a file like that (VERY un-unix like, by the way), I now have to do the OS remapping thing that you suggest.
I'm at a complete loss on how you think the average user would be too stupid to handle something like this. If they can be counted on for entering network preferences and connecting to webDAV servers in the first place, I think this would be well in the range of their skills.
You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.
It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.
Not saying that Apple couldn't provide a better hook, but blocking 80?
I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.
Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.
Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.
I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.
Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.
So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80"; target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.
You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Splitting hairs here, but it is an important point that I will hit upon later. I can redirect where <a href="http://www.mac.com"; target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> points, I am not technically redirecting the iDisk server. It's just a fortunate side-effect. I will explain later why this is an important distinction.
[quote]
<strong>
It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
No argument there. My ISP also happens to be my cable modem provider. Since I enjoy always on access, switching just isn't an option. As you point out, it's just plain idiotic. What is interesting, however, is that they leave port 443 open. If Apple would someday allow their webDAV client to work over https, that would solve a number of issues.
[quote]
<strong>
I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.
Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Fair enough. How about putting the tool in somewhere in the utilities folder? Surely, if Apple trusts people to use NetInfo, this shouldn't be asking much more. And, if you don't like that idea, I would be very happy if it was in a file that you had to modify by getting into the terminal and doing something like "sudo emacs /etc/idisk.location". Surely, your 84-year old great aunt isn't going to do that by accident.
[quote]
<strong>
Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Rather than emulate iPhoto, I would use Gallery (a PHP photo suite tool). Backup already works. There is already a PHP tool for reading calendars. For the most part, I have almost everything I need except for getting iDisk to point to the right location.
Also, I don't care about some of the other things (like publishing a website). So, somebody else will have to contribute those pieces.
[quote]
<strong>
I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.
Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Fine by me. Put it in a place then that only the uber-geeks can get to.
[quote]
<strong>
So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80"; target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As far as I know, you have to specify real IP addresses with ipfilter, not DNS names. This presents a bit of a problem because my ISP also likes to give out dynamic IP addresses. Sure, my address doesn't change often, but as you point out, I would like to set this once and forget about it.
This would be absolutely trivial if there were a file somewhere that had the following line:
We already know that the iDisk is using DNS to find the right ip-address, so very little would have to change. Also, it wouldn't require hacking the system as much.
I guess what I could do is have a script running as root that would get the IP address of my webDAV server and automatically update ipfilter. That could run in a loop and check every five minutes. In the end, that's probably what I'll end up doing.
I guess you could say that Apple is providing a "hook" for me to do this. I would say that I'm taking advantage of how the system works and that no hooks have really been provided. If it were a "hook", we would see something on Apple's website about how to do this.
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]</p>
By the way, let me say something positive about Apple... The X11 port is a huge step in the right direction. When I posted a few months ago on this, I was given basically the same arguments as what I've seen on this thread. (X11 is too complicated, we don't need it, etc.)
I think getting X11 to play well with Aqua is a huge step in the right direction and could be a final nail in the coffin for Linux as a desktop machine. (Linux's role in the server market is fairly safe though)
<strong>Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?
Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.
When a company got iDVD to work with an external drive, did Apple provide a "hook" so that other companies could do the same or did they provide a "wall" so that it couldn't be done anymore?</strong><hr></blockquote>
There have been a slew of walkthroughs around the net on how to use a random WebDAV server instead of .mac for most all of the features Apple has integrated into .mac. I thought I saw one of those walkthroughs linked on Apple's own site. Doing precisely what you want to do... I can't recall anyone replacing their iDisk. People mounting other disks as easily - sure.
The DVD business is an extreme irritation from the delightful folks at the DVD Consortia. DVD burning software is supposed to pay a license fee or be shipped with the hardware. Apple didn't pay for licenses to use the software on the unsupported DVD burners. Yes, you can find software to burn DVDs for free - but not from companies that have assets/need to deal with the DVD Consortia to sell drives/make DVD players/etc. I do personally wish they'd tell the consortia where to get off.
EDIT: Sheesh, only a third of the page loaded when I was replying, I hadn't seen people discuss this in more detail.
I think it is important to hash out the differences between Apple and MS. There are some really important issues that need to be not forgotten...and not lost in morass of iDVD angst.
Open source was a hope to add democracy to the capitalism of an MS dominated sector, but it seems to be plateau-ing.
It would be nice if the Linux people would buy Macs so that at least somebody can keep innovating in ways that affect the masses!
Okay, also Apple should charge for .Mac, because everyone who bought an iBook and iMac had to pay for it's development whether they used it or not.
I'm glad the iApps got upgraded for free, but if you want to know why there isn't a $500 iMac drawing in the Wal-Mart crowd....that's one reason.
Comments
<strong>
True, we did mention how Apple prevented people from using external drives with iDVD.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, yeas, I can see the tangent. Well, FWIW I also think it was a bully tactic. Anyhoo...
<strong>Wrong. Examine the packge contents on the Jag CDs with Pacifist -- iDVD is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Restore CDs that come with SuperDrive-equipped Macs, no?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: zappy ]</p>
Jaguar CDs do not include iDVD.
As the first post clearly stated, Apple isn't perfect but they certainly are doing a ton of good work to provide a system based on open standards. I find no fault on Apple's part providing cheap or free apps like the various iApps and tying some of the functionality to .mac Most of these are scriptable. If you want to connect iApp functionality to your own webDAV location...I suspect you could script something to accomplish this.
Anyway...I agree Apple is not remotely becoming MS with iApps or any other product.
[quote]Originally posted by zappy:
<strong>
What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: zappy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
iLife is a real boon for Mac users. Apple has reengineered its iApps to provide improved functionality, yet they're still giving them away for free. Plus, Apple is also providing them in a convenient pacakage, along with iDVD, which is certainly worth $49 alone. The most significant part is that Apple seemingly gave into user pressure over external writers and really did the right thing in that regard. I was quite relieved and impressed by the announcement. The rumor sites only reported a quarter of the story here, and Apple has taught many a good lesson.
<strong>
Not really.
All the behind the scenes work is done by Apple already. If you want to export your own you need to write an iPhoto plug-in that knows specifically how you want it to talk to your webDAV server, what protocols you want to uses for those images to display under, incorporate the back-end so someone elses generic browser can see what you have etc...
You can do all those things already, none of the hooks are hidden. You just shouldn't expect to get the rock-star parking spot in Apples OS menu heirarchy, you get that in YOUR menu.
I wouldn't ever expect Apple to do your work to ensure that every possible webDAV server configuration/protocol set-up/back-end combination is compatible with their iApps and iDisk so that you could get a free ride on their code. Your desires need your elbow grease. If you like Apples defaults and accept all the little warts you correctly ID'ed, then you get it all for free. I see no room for complaint on this particular issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never said that I wanted Apple to do the work for me. In fact, if you read my earlier comments, I would be perfectly happy if Apple just throws up a warning message when I change the default location of the iDisk server and that message could say something like this, "Some services and programs may not work correctly when you change the iDisk location. For complete functionality, join the .mac network"
Yes, iPhoto may not work with my webDAV server (although I see no reason why not). As far as not getting the "rock-star" location, I suspect that it's a simple matter that you don't have the issue, so you can't imagine the difficulties.
Here's what I have at home: one linux server that handles the bulk of work (automating the house, mail server, webserver, etc.) Another server that is a 120GB RAID-5 (with spare disks) file server. With this combo, I have plenty of power and a place that all of my important software can sit and it's immune to disk crashes. Furthermore, I can put movies, songs, photos in a place that I can to from anywhere on the internet.
I have absolutely no use for the .mac services. However, I have noted that when I pointed my /etc/hosts to the address of my fileserver (192.168.0.x), I can get some very nice functionality out of the iDisk. All of a sudden, running the backup program works great and I can put files on my RAID server. I imagine I could do similar things with iCal. In fact, I could upload my calendar to my server and then use one of the nice PHP tools so that I can show my calendar on the web.
Here's the problem: the above setup works great when I'm on my internal network. The moment I go to another network, I run into problems. iDisk assumes that I'm going to contact the webDAV server over port 80. My ISP has blocked traffic on port 80, so I run my webDAV server on another port as well. There really isn't a great way to override that (well I could play with the routing tables...) Imagine how simple it would be if I could simply list where my iDisk server should point in some dialog box.
As I suggested, you probably don't have this problem, so you never really thought out the ramifications. The simplest analogy I can give you is imagine if Mail.app would only hook up to .mac rather than letting you type in the name of your POP/IMAP/SMTP server. Yes, you could fake it out by overriding <a href="http://www.mac.com"; target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> in your /etc/hosts file, but let's say that Apple stopped that from working. You might then be a bit angry that iPhoto only works with Mail.app for mailing, and you would quite rightly complain that an easy way to fix this would be to let you specify your own SMTP server in Mail.app.
<strong>Your ideas have merit, I just think expecting Apple to allow users to re-map portions of the OS because they have neat ideas isn't a good idea.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Who said anything about remapping portions of the OS? All I want is a line in a file somewhere that reads something like this:
iDisk Server:http://www.mac.com/
I could then change it to the following
iDisk Server:http://www.myserver.com:30000/
As is stands now, since they don't have a file like that (VERY un-unix like, by the way), I now have to do the OS remapping thing that you suggest.
I'm at a complete loss on how you think the average user would be too stupid to handle something like this. If they can be counted on for entering network preferences and connecting to webDAV servers in the first place, I think this would be well in the range of their skills.
You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.
It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.
Not saying that Apple couldn't provide a better hook, but blocking 80?
I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.
Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.
Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.
I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.
Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.
So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80"; target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.
<strong>Sorry to drag this out, but...
You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Splitting hairs here, but it is an important point that I will hit upon later. I can redirect where <a href="http://www.mac.com"; target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> points, I am not technically redirecting the iDisk server. It's just a fortunate side-effect. I will explain later why this is an important distinction.
[quote]
<strong>
It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
No argument there. My ISP also happens to be my cable modem provider. Since I enjoy always on access, switching just isn't an option. As you point out, it's just plain idiotic. What is interesting, however, is that they leave port 443 open. If Apple would someday allow their webDAV client to work over https, that would solve a number of issues.
[quote]
<strong>
I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.
Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Fair enough. How about putting the tool in somewhere in the utilities folder? Surely, if Apple trusts people to use NetInfo, this shouldn't be asking much more. And, if you don't like that idea, I would be very happy if it was in a file that you had to modify by getting into the terminal and doing something like "sudo emacs /etc/idisk.location". Surely, your 84-year old great aunt isn't going to do that by accident.
[quote]
<strong>
Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Rather than emulate iPhoto, I would use Gallery (a PHP photo suite tool). Backup already works. There is already a PHP tool for reading calendars. For the most part, I have almost everything I need except for getting iDisk to point to the right location.
Also, I don't care about some of the other things (like publishing a website). So, somebody else will have to contribute those pieces.
[quote]
<strong>
I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.
Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Fine by me. Put it in a place then that only the uber-geeks can get to.
[quote]
<strong>
So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80"; target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As far as I know, you have to specify real IP addresses with ipfilter, not DNS names. This presents a bit of a problem because my ISP also likes to give out dynamic IP addresses. Sure, my address doesn't change often, but as you point out, I would like to set this once and forget about it.
This would be absolutely trivial if there were a file somewhere that had the following line:
iDisk Server : <a href="http://www.mac.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.mac.com/</a>;
We already know that the iDisk is using DNS to find the right ip-address, so very little would have to change. Also, it wouldn't require hacking the system as much.
I guess what I could do is have a script running as root that would get the IP address of my webDAV server and automatically update ipfilter. That could run in a loop and check every five minutes. In the end, that's probably what I'll end up doing.
I guess you could say that Apple is providing a "hook" for me to do this. I would say that I'm taking advantage of how the system works and that no hooks have really been provided. If it were a "hook", we would see something on Apple's website about how to do this.
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]</p>
I think getting X11 to play well with Aqua is a huge step in the right direction and could be a final nail in the coffin for Linux as a desktop machine. (Linux's role in the server market is fairly safe though)
<strong>Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?
Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.
When a company got iDVD to work with an external drive, did Apple provide a "hook" so that other companies could do the same or did they provide a "wall" so that it couldn't be done anymore?</strong><hr></blockquote>
There have been a slew of walkthroughs around the net on how to use a random WebDAV server instead of .mac for most all of the features Apple has integrated into .mac. I thought I saw one of those walkthroughs linked on Apple's own site. Doing precisely what you want to do... I can't recall anyone replacing their iDisk. People mounting other disks as easily - sure.
The DVD business is an extreme irritation from the delightful folks at the DVD Consortia. DVD burning software is supposed to pay a license fee or be shipped with the hardware. Apple didn't pay for licenses to use the software on the unsupported DVD burners. Yes, you can find software to burn DVDs for free - but not from companies that have assets/need to deal with the DVD Consortia to sell drives/make DVD players/etc. I do personally wish they'd tell the consortia where to get off.
EDIT: Sheesh, only a third of the page loaded when I was replying, I hadn't seen people discuss this in more detail.
[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: Nevyn ]</p>
I think it is important to hash out the differences between Apple and MS. There are some really important issues that need to be not forgotten...and not lost in morass of iDVD angst.
Open source was a hope to add democracy to the capitalism of an MS dominated sector, but it seems to be plateau-ing.
It would be nice if the Linux people would buy Macs so that at least somebody can keep innovating in ways that affect the masses!
Okay, also Apple should charge for .Mac, because everyone who bought an iBook and iMac had to pay for it's development whether they used it or not.
I'm glad the iApps got upgraded for free, but if you want to know why there isn't a $500 iMac drawing in the Wal-Mart crowd....that's one reason.