3. Sale of set top boxes (plus 15% stake in Arris)
4. Remaining patent valuation
5. Sale to Lenovo
Sorry, not even close! tax losses are still losses. The portfolio is of little value as already demonstrated. The money acquired is far far from the purchase price. Smoke and mirrors...
To say its only a 1 or 2 billion loss is absolute nonsense, and phony accounting.
Hey... get in line behind Rogi and Rede if you want to be one of my groupies.
To come after me with this phony accounting accusation is strange. Hell, even if I was 2 billion out and the loss was 4 billion, I'd still be much much closer than the people saying 9 billion, 12 billion, 8 billion...
... so, why are you coming after me. Is it love...
To say its only a 1 or 2 billion loss is absolute nonsense, and phony accounting.
This is from the NYT:
When Google bought Motorola, the hardware maker had about $3 billion in cash on hand and nearly $1 billion in tax credits. So that brings the original deal’s price down to about $8.5 billion.
Then, Google sold Motorola’s set-top box business to Arris for nearly $2.4 billion. That lowers the price to roughly $6.1 billion.
Now, Google is selling Motorola Mobility — primarily the handset business, along with a few patents — for $2.9 billion. So we’re at about $3.2 billion.
I would round that up to 4 billion. That's one expensive faux pas.
Sorry, not even close! tax losses are still losses. The portfolio is of little value as already demonstrated. The money acquired is far far from the purchase price. Smoke and mirrors...
To me I'm just a little sad that the inventor of the mobile phone and the only smartphone designed and made in the US is gone =(
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Foxconn and other assemblers install Apple specified manufacturing hardware and follow Apple procedures to the letter to build their products. Apple essentially installs their own manufacturing lines into their empty factories. Perhaps you lack a fundamental understanding of the contract manufacturing process as it relates to modern technology? Perhaps the final parts assembly line is staffed by foreign workers, the entire process is US made.
While your personal distinction might be personally meaningful, as a patriotic gesture its totally moot, if not hurting the cause. Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
So the amount of money GOOG was losing every year from Motorola has already been accounted for? Funny..their stock doesn't show that:
1. Lose billions money year-over-year? Stock goes up
2. Sell off money-losing business at a substantial billion dollar loss? Stock goes up
3. Profit
Yes because despite the losses, they were still growing. So now that they won't be continually losing money from the Motorola division, the stock went up.
Guys, stop ranting. Google has not lost money here. Not one cent. And I don't mean in a hypothetical sense, in a real world accounting sense.
Back when the Motorola acquisition was made, Google was facing three major threats to Android. Whole world was focussing on the threat from Apple law suits and Oracle law suits. The whole world was looking at how Motorola could help Google dealing with these law suits. It couldn't and it didn't, despite a lot of effort by Google.
But the biggest threat to Android was not from outside - it was from within the Android camp. Samsung was gaining a lot of clout and it was the ONLY player making money on Android. Not even Google itself was/is making money on Android.
Google was obviously worried about the growing clout of Samsung, and wanted to retain some control of Android.
With the recent Samsung cross licensing deal, and with the term being set as 10 years, Google has eliminated the internal threat to Android. So Motorola at least helped Google in some way.
But more importantly the amount Samsung agreed to pay upfront and over the years, more than makes up for the losses on Motorola. All Google had to do was set the duration of the cross licensing to as high a number as it was required, to make it attractive enough to Samsung, that Samsung would pay whatever it was that Google lost on Motorola. And it is clear that the number was 10 years.
The stock is going up today, simply because a loss making company is off Google's neck, and they have managed to do this without any impact to bottom line.
There isn't going to be a big wirite off this quarter.
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Thinking up a manufacturing process and then actually, you know, *making it* in China is not remotely the same as *actually* making it in the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redefiler
Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
2) Looks like we're going to miss out on those wonderful and mysterious google products that were supposedly coming soon, right after motorola's product pipeline ran out. GG?
3) It seems pretty obvious what's going on. After google's ill-contrived plan to develop their own (successful) mobile hardware went down in flames, they felt increasing pressure that samsung would continue dominating android, then marginalize it with tinzen. So, like a cornered badger, google bites and scratches, and strong-arms samsung into implementing a less differentiated android OS (using maps as a bargaining chip), and candy coats the deal with a patent agreement.
4) And of course, GOOG has been skyrocketing and AAPL has tanked. What a complete joke, as if the manipulation wasn't plainly obvious before. Who is in a better position to monetize future tech growth? The answer is obvious (Hint: microsoft makes more money per android phone than google, and the majority of google's mobile ad profits come from iOS devices).
5) I hope Apple does not pay much attention to AAPL, and just continues to make awesome products.
Your mixing up cash flow, earnings, and balance sheet items. Very creative accounting.
How is it creative? I'm just adding up the numbers people have put out there. If you have a better source for how much each thing brought in or cost then post it and we can all see.
Besides the majority of patents Google is also keeping the MM Advanced Technology and Products group.Can't say they haven't been full of surprises lately
I don't think it was such a bad move. The $12.5B was a sunk cost, and the only real consideration should be what is the best move going forward. If Moto was losing money, and Google had decided that they weren't going to make the commitment required to make it a success, selling the hardware business for whatever they could get and keeping the IP makes perfect sense.
Comments
Sorry, not even close! tax losses are still losses. The portfolio is of little value as already demonstrated. The money acquired is far far from the purchase price. Smoke and mirrors...
To say its only a 1 or 2 billion loss is absolute nonsense, and phony accounting.
Hey... get in line behind Rogi and Rede if you want to be one of my groupies.
To come after me with this phony accounting accusation is strange. Hell, even if I was 2 billion out and the loss was 4 billion, I'd still be much much closer than the people saying 9 billion, 12 billion, 8 billion...
... so, why are you coming after me. Is it love...
This is from the NYT:
I would round that up to 4 billion. That's one expensive faux pas.
Sorry, not even close! tax losses are still losses. The portfolio is of little value as already demonstrated. The money acquired is far far from the purchase price. Smoke and mirrors...
Well, at least now I know how much you know.
Give 'em a break. I predict the Nokia acquisition will be even worse.
Thanks, I stand corrected.
To me I'm just a little sad that the inventor of the mobile phone and the only smartphone designed and made in the US is gone =(
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further 100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Foxconn and other assemblers install Apple specified manufacturing hardware and follow Apple procedures to the letter to build their products. Apple essentially installs their own manufacturing lines into their empty factories. Perhaps you lack a fundamental understanding of the contract manufacturing process as it relates to modern technology? Perhaps the final parts assembly line is staffed by foreign workers, the entire process is US made.
While your personal distinction might be personally meaningful, as a patriotic gesture its totally moot, if not hurting the cause. Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
So the amount of money GOOG was losing every year from Motorola has already been accounted for? Funny..their stock doesn't show that:
1. Lose billions money year-over-year? Stock goes up
2. Sell off money-losing business at a substantial billion dollar loss? Stock goes up
3. Profit
Yes because despite the losses, they were still growing. So now that they won't be continually losing money from the Motorola division, the stock went up.
... so, why are you coming after me. Is it love...
Maybe more like stepping in gum...
takes a bit of work to scrape away with a stick.
Back when the Motorola acquisition was made, Google was facing three major threats to Android. Whole world was focussing on the threat from Apple law suits and Oracle law suits. The whole world was looking at how Motorola could help Google dealing with these law suits. It couldn't and it didn't, despite a lot of effort by Google.
But the biggest threat to Android was not from outside - it was from within the Android camp. Samsung was gaining a lot of clout and it was the ONLY player making money on Android. Not even Google itself was/is making money on Android.
Google was obviously worried about the growing clout of Samsung, and wanted to retain some control of Android.
With the recent Samsung cross licensing deal, and with the term being set as 10 years, Google has eliminated the internal threat to Android. So Motorola at least helped Google in some way.
But more importantly the amount Samsung agreed to pay upfront and over the years, more than makes up for the losses on Motorola. All Google had to do was set the duration of the cross licensing to as high a number as it was required, to make it attractive enough to Samsung, that Samsung would pay whatever it was that Google lost on Motorola. And it is clear that the number was 10 years.
The stock is going up today, simply because a loss making company is off Google's neck, and they have managed to do this without any impact to bottom line.
There isn't going to be a big wirite off this quarter.
According to the HN thread it's more like this:
Total: $2.17 Billion Loss
Your mixing up cash flow, earnings, and balance sheet items. Very creative accounting.
Just sayin'.
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further 100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Thinking up a manufacturing process and then actually, you know, *making it* in China is not remotely the same as *actually* making it in the United States.
Originally Posted by redefiler
Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
Wow. Just wow.
Patents are worthless. They have collected less than $10 million from total patent royalties
If Google hadn't bought up the patents, how much could it have had to pay if it were sued using those patents?
2) Looks like we're going to miss out on those wonderful and mysterious google products that were supposedly coming soon, right after motorola's product pipeline ran out. GG?
3) It seems pretty obvious what's going on. After google's ill-contrived plan to develop their own (successful) mobile hardware went down in flames, they felt increasing pressure that samsung would continue dominating android, then marginalize it with tinzen. So, like a cornered badger, google bites and scratches, and strong-arms samsung into implementing a less differentiated android OS (using maps as a bargaining chip), and candy coats the deal with a patent agreement.
4) And of course, GOOG has been skyrocketing and AAPL has tanked. What a complete joke, as if the manipulation wasn't plainly obvious before. Who is in a better position to monetize future tech growth? The answer is obvious (Hint: microsoft makes more money per android phone than google, and the majority of google's mobile ad profits come from iOS devices).
5) I hope Apple does not pay much attention to AAPL, and just continues to make awesome products.
Your mixing up cash flow, earnings, and balance sheet items. Very creative accounting.
How is it creative? I'm just adding up the numbers people have put out there. If you have a better source for how much each thing brought in or cost then post it and we can all see.
I don't think it was such a bad move. The $12.5B was a sunk cost, and the only real consideration should be what is the best move going forward. If Moto was losing money, and Google had decided that they weren't going to make the commitment required to make it a success, selling the hardware business for whatever they could get and keeping the IP makes perfect sense.
Why does he need crayons? Is he still at kindy?